OT: Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith (spoilers)

[TheGamer]

Weaver, you asked for it you got it.

[Inuyasha]

Thanks. Ok, a few questions.


SPOILERS WARNING





















1. Gen. Grevious , was he in ep2? I dont remember him in ep 1 or 2, maybe I wasn't paying attention.


2.When Palpatine says that the original sith lord had the only way to revive life, palpatine should too right? If so, I think it would have been better played out later in the movie if anakin dies from the lava and darth sideous revives him. 30 years ago when lucas wrote the whole story, I believe that was the original plan.

3.Luke/Leia taking their first breaths as Vader does, that was cool.

4.Cool at the end when they are constructing the Death Star they have a cgi look-alike of a young Admiral Tarkin.

5.Special Effects were great. The other 2 movies, I thought the cgi stuff took away from the movie, they looked more cartoony and fake than real, this movie it all looks very good. Nothing in the movie special effects wise made me say it was stupid looking.

[HipE]

One thing I thought was funny was how they were able to keep Anakin alive even though he had lost all his limbs and was completely burned up, yet they couldn't keep Padme alive after giving birth to Luke and Leia.

[TheGamer]

Thanks. Ok, a few questions.


SPOILERS WARNING





















1. Gen. Grevious , was he in ep2? I dont remember him in ep 1 or 2, maybe I wasn't paying attention.


2.When Palpatine says that the original sith lord had the only way to revive life, palpatine should too right? If so, I think it would have been better played out later in the movie if anakin dies from the lava and darth sideous revives him. 30 years ago when lucas wrote the whole story, I believe that was the original plan.

3.Luke/Leia taking their first breaths as Vader does, that was cool.

4.Cool at the end when they are constructing the Death Star they have a cgi look-alike of a young Admiral Tarkin.

1. The GG character was from the Clone Wars animated shorts on MTV and Cartoon network.

2. I believe that Palpatine was playing on Anakin's fears about Padme dying . Trying to further convince him to come over to the dark side.

[HipE]

Did Palpatine intentionally let Mace Windu almost kill him to force Anakin's hand? It seems strange how he could get his ass kicked by Mace, yet win his battle against Yoda. I was also surprised that Dooku was able to kick Obi Wan's ass, yet Obi Wan beat Anakin at the end.

[Inuyasha]

One thing I thought initially didnt work but later on worked fine was when anakin turns. I thought when Windoo was about to kill palpatine, anakin turned too fast, on a dime, to save him. I understand he wanted him on trial, but after he saves him, he instantly turned his loyalty to him. But later on in the movie when Anakin is absorbed by the dark side, that one scene works out.

[Inuyasha]

Did Palpatine intentionally let Mace Windu almost kill him to force Anakin's hand? It seems strange how he could get his ass kicked by Mace, yet win his battle against Yoda. I was also surprised that Dooku was able to kick Obi Wan's ass, yet Obi Wan beat Anakin at the end.

Palpatine was faking being hurt when Windu was on him. He probably knew that Anakin would turn.

Dooku was more powerful than OB1. But he wasn't as powerful as Anakin. I think the emperor sensed this and thats why he set him up. Maybe the bridge that fell on OB1 was caused by the emperor too?


Another question : WHY Did Yoda give up fighting palpatine so early at the end? Because he lost his cloak? did the cloak give him some kind of power? He looked like he was doing well , at least on par w/ palpatine.

[TheGamer]

Did Palpatine intentionally let Mace Windu almost kill him to force Anakin's hand? It seems strange how he could get his ass kicked by Mace, yet win his battle against Yoda. I was also surprised that Dooku was able to kick Obi Wan's ass, yet Obi Wan beat Anakin at the end.

Yeah I think that was all apart of Palpatine's plan in getting Anakin to change over. I think Obi Wan just had an advantage at that moment and got a good strike.

[Naples39]

A few thoughts:

-I think the reason Yoda gave up was because their battle was a stalemate. Yoda knew he only had a small window of opportunity to defeat the emperor without the republican guard protecting him, and was unable to, thus Yoda bailed out before he could be taken prisoner/killed.

-I agree it would have been cooler if Anakin died and the emperor used his unique power to revive anakin, creating a truely new, sith-spawn being in Darth Vader. Then again, later scenes suggest he was BSing anakin about having the power in the first place.

-The emperor's little spiel also mention the power of being able use the mitochlorians (or whatever they're called) to create new beings -- perhaps this was to suggest Anakin's immaculate conception was all a part of the sinister plot? Or just more BS from the emperor?

[Inuyasha]

A few thoughts:

-I think the reason Yoda gave up was because their battle was a stalemate. Yoda knew he only had a small window of opportunity to defeat the emperor without the republican guard protecting him, and was unable to, thus Yoda bailed out before he could be taken prisoner/killed.

?

I read up on some sites that they cut a scene during yoda's and the emperor's fight scene. Yoda gives up because the emperor brings in a droid army that fires upon yoda which makes yoda retreat.

[Inuyasha]

Oh man, I would have turned to the dark side too If I was Anakin after finding out what Obi Wan was really observing :


http://img11.echo.cx/img11/2627/holoporn6xf.jpg



Star Wars Humor , this isn't really in the movie

[Naples39]

Any word on why it was cut?

When I was watching gamespot e3 coverage one of the editors was talking about how he had seen star wars but people should try to see the 'digital' version at special theatres if possible because it had additional scenes. I guess this is what's going on here?

Still seems like a rather important scene to cut as in the current version yoda does appear to give up awfully quickly for such an important battle. I can only presume these scenes will make their way on to the DVDs as Lucas milks us for more of our money.

[Inuyasha]

Any word on why it was cut?

When I was watching gamespot e3 coverage one of the editors was talking about how he had seen star wars but people should try to see the 'digital' version at special theatres if possible because it had additional scenes. I guess this is what's going on here?

Still seems like a rather important scene to cut as in the current version yoda does appear to give up awfully quickly for such an important battle. I can only presume these scenes will make their way on to the DVDs as Lucas milks us for more of our money.

No i dont think the extra scenes were at any theaters. That site I got that info from says it'll be on the DVD edition, plus other scenes lucas cut. The writer says it should have been kept in because at the end, Yoda looks like he pussies out of a fight with the emperor when in reality they have equal power.

So I guess he cannot defeat the emperor because they are equal in the force? So the prophecy wasn't incorrect, just translated wrong? Anakin does bring balance to the force by joining the dark side?

[maddoc1979]

I saw it in a digital theater and there's no extra scene during the Yoda/Palpatine fight. It did seem a little quickly edited though. Perhaps and "extended" version like the Lord of the Rings movies will flesh it out a bit.

Doc

[James_E]

So I guess he cannot defeat the emperor because they are equal in the force? So the prophecy wasn't incorrect, just translated wrong? Anakin does bring balance to the force by joining the dark side?

I think Anakin eventually bring balance in Return of the Jedi, at the end when he turns from the dark side and destroys the emperor. Does this make sense w.r.t. the prophecy?

[Cincinnati_Kid]

So I guess he cannot defeat the emperor because they are equal in the force? So the prophecy wasn't incorrect, just translated wrong? Anakin does bring balance to the force by joining the dark side?

I think Anakin eventually bring balance in Return of the Jedi, at the end when he turns from the dark side and destroys the emperor. Does this make sense w.r.t. the prophecy?

isnt the prophecy totally correct just off by one generation in which skywalker it was

as young luke brings that balance...and proves he is that prophecy

(but yeah not to mention his influence on his father anakin through his choice not to join the dark side at the end of return of the jedi anakin then sees in luke all that was good in lukes mother which influences anakins ultimate decision as he finds his way back and kills the emperor

[Inuyasha]

So I guess he cannot defeat the emperor because they are equal in the force? So the prophecy wasn't incorrect, just translated wrong? Anakin does bring balance to the force by joining the dark side?

I think Anakin eventually bring balance in Return of the Jedi, at the end when he turns from the dark side and destroys the emperor. Does this make sense w.r.t. the prophecy?

isnt the prophecy totally correct just off by one generation in which skywalker it was

as young luke brings that balance...and proves he is that prophecy

(but yeah not to mention his influence on his father anakin through his choice not to join the dark side at the end of return of the jedi anakin then sees in luke all that was good in lukes mother which influences anakins ultimate decision as he finds his way back and kills the emperor

I think maybe both are correct. Since anakin as darth kills the emperor, he kills the dark side and luke brings the good side of the force?

The part when Dooku was killed was a good scene in explaining the end of jedi. The emperor wanted Luke to replace vader since he was younger and more powerful as vader replaced dooku. Now we know Vader forsee's this when he asks Luke in Empire to join him so they can rule the galaxy as father and son. Vader knew if he had Luke with him, both of them would be too powerful for the Emperor to take on and Vader could Kill off the emperor before the emperor got him.

[Slumberland]

Anakin is still the chosen one, not Luke. His route to fulfill the prophecy just takes a rather unexpected route.

That's one of the great things about this story... for popcorn entertainment, it's got a very sticky take on good and evil. We're basically talking about a saviour of the universe who ends up committing mass murder for twenty years before realizing his purpose, which in turn only happens because of his son's faith in him, something other "heroes" in the story (older Obi-Wan and Yoda) don't share in the slightest. And while the Jedi are obviously soulful, appealing heroes, they are constantly making poor choices, basically forcing Anakin to look elsewhere for guidance by keeping him at arms length and, let's face it, treating him like sh*t, coupled with their inability to believe there is any good left in Vader by the time period of the originals rolls around.

You could say that the prequels are about how evil thinks it's doing the right thing, and the originals are about the danger of viewing evil as 100%, grade-A evil with a capital 'E'. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" Obi-Wan says in this one, and yet that's exactly what he's doing when Luke asks him if there's still good in Vader, and he shoots him down, with all that "more machine than man" and "I once thought as you did" business. Yoda and Obi-Wan see death as the only solution for Vader and the Emperor, and not only death for the villains... they think they world is ending because Luke won't leave his friends to certain suffering and death at Vader's hands on Bespin. More of that Jedi 'non-attachment' bullsh*t that, frankly, sort of got them into this mess in the first place, preaching a very milk-toast brand of compassion and forcing Anakin to lead a double life.

I like to think that Luke's the light that cuts through the fog, imbued with such a sense of optimism and feeling that the more dogmatic aspects of Jedi training just sort of roll off his back. In the end, it's that very attachment to and belief in his father that ends up setting things right, something the Jedi would have frowned upon. By the end of the movie, I feel like Luke isn't a Jedi quite in the mold of the Old Republic, but more an amalgamation of light and dark, wisdom and passion. There he is at the end, the brightest shining force user in the galaxy, dressed in black.

On another note, Palpatine was more explicit in an earlier draft of the script that he created Anakin via his manipulation of the midichlorians. Could have been a lie, however, like his claim to know the secret to saving people from death. Yet, if Palpatine did 'father' him, in a sense, then what he thought was going to be his greatest weapon also would turn out to the one person close enough to spell his own doom. But there's a lot of that going around... like I said, the Jedi really do everything they can to bring about their own demise.

What a wild character that Palpatine is. Vader's always been the obvious choice as ultimate screen villain, but the brilliance of the Palpatine character is that he convinces others to commit heinous acts and yet believe their doing the right thing. That smile he gives behind Darth, after he tells him that he killed his own wife, just despicable. I also found it very creepy and sad that the first things Vader says upon awaking in the suit were basically where is my wife, is she okay? The end of Return of the Jedi not withstanding, it was weird to hear such a vulnerable kind of concern coming out of that mask.

Wow, verbose, huh? I liked the movie a lot. Was sort of blown away by the last hour and a half, and that first twenty minutes had that jaunty, fun spirit of Han, Luke and Leia running around the Death Star. Those initial love scenes back on Coruscant are where the dialogue hurts the film most, but that stuff doesn't really bother me at this point. I could do without the snickering in the theater during those points, however. We don't have to pretend it's good dialogue, but there's something so empty about that snickering... this sort of cynical laugh that arises when you're 'not' enjoying something. Maybe it's just these jaded New York audiences.

I'd place it up there with New Hope and Empire (which has always been my favorite). It's got patches that are rougher than anything in those two films, but I think in a lot of ways it's more ambitious than the old films, and reaches a depth of feeling (particularly in the Order 66 section) that's un-matched in the series.

[Zeppo]

. . . which in turn only happens because of his son's faith in him, something other "heroes" in the story (older Obi-Wan and Yoda) don't share in the slightest. And while the Jedi are obviously soulful, appealing heroes, they are constantly making poor choices, basically forcing Anakin to look elsewhere for guidance by keeping him at arms length and, let's face it, treating him like sh*t, coupled with their inability to believe there is any good left in Vader by the time period of the originals rolls around.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" Obi-Wan says in this one, and yet that's exactly what he's doing when Luke asks him if there's still good in Vader, and he shoots him down, with all that "more machine than man" and "I once thought as you did" business. Yoda and Obi-Wan see death as the only solution for Vader and the Emperor. . . . More of that Jedi 'non-attachment' bullsh*t that, frankly, sort of got them into this mess in the first place, preaching a very milk-toast brand of compassion and forcing Anakin to lead a double life.

Well, two things. First, Obi Wan did believe Anakin was still good, incapable of such heinous evil as killing the 'younglings' (can't figure out if McEwan is hiding a burst of laughter at using the word 'younglings' to Padme, or a burst of disgust and sadness ). It is not until he sees with his own eyes Anni essentially kill his beloved wife that he determines the Anni in front of him is not the Anni he used to know. It's basically Padme realizing the ol' "I don't know who you are anymore" that forces Obi Wan into deciding there is no good left in him. And he never wants to kill Anni, he can't bring himself to do it. He even tries to tell Anni not to try the crazy-ass maneuver at the end that he does try (in his arrogance) and that gives Obi Wan the opportunity to end the competitive stage of their confrontation. And Obi Wan just leaves him to die (short sighted IMO) rather than finishing him off, as he could and should have.

Second, it was right of the Jedi to fight against personal attatchments. It is only the personal attatchments that Anni feels that lead to his downfall: his love for his mother opens the door, plants the seeds (ooh, that killing feels good, don't it, even though you regret it later, and even though she is OK with dying, he sure wishes he had powers to keep her alive), and the love for his wife that makes him susceptible to Palpatine's manipulation, makes him incapable of allowing Palpatine to die, since the big P promises the power to keep her alive (Anni is certain his premonitions will come to pass, that if he doesn't find that elusive pwer over death, she will die).

And wow, that bit at the end with the 'how is my wife' was weird in all the best ways. He seems to come to the realization that he was indeed the cause, not the solution, to his wife dying, and in that his fall to the dark side is complete- without his wife alive, what is left for him to live for as a human being? Now he is just an agent of power, to maintain order. He seems to become aware that in selling his soul, he is the reason for her (and thus his own) suffering.

. . . it's that very attachment to and belief in his father that ends up setting things right, something the Jedi would have frowned upon.

Maybe. I think Obi Wan felt the same way, but was burned really, really badly by letting Anni kill Padme (instead of listening to Yoda and dealing harshly with Anni more immediately upon arrival on 'giant proto-Hawaii planet').

By the end of the movie, I feel like Luke isn't a Jedi quite in the mold of the Old Republic, but more an amalgamation of light and dark, wisdom and passion. There he is at the end, the brightest shining force user in the galaxy, dressed in black.

Neat. I like it. I'm not sure Lucas is as clear-headed in all this for it to withstand serious breaking-down, but who knows!

I remember one time watching Jedi having some little revelations. I was thinking about when Vader says in Empire "you don't know the power of the dark side," he is talking about real power, power over life and death, the wonders of power, all the good stuff. But when he says it to Luke on the moon of Endor, when he is taking him prisoner, he says 'you don't know the power of the dark side. I mmmmmust obey my master,' he is telling Luke that he (Vader) has no choice but to obey, because the dark side (through torture of many types) gives the Emperor dominioin over Vader's free will. That is, he is telling Luke he doesn't have any idea the pain he is about to experience, and he shouldn't be so proud to think that he can resist the powers of the big Sith boss.

It is the insidiousness of the evil (Darth Sidious after all) that makes it so compelling. Anni has to choose between allowing Windu to end the fight, and restore the good Republic, or keep alive the one guy who can give him the power to keep his wife alive. He is not aware, of course, that Palpatine set the whole situation up to force him into the choice. And yet Windu is aware, even if he doesn't know the details, since he tries (not hard enough) to keep Anni out of there when he goes to do his business with the big P.

What a wild character that Palpatine is. Vader's always been the obvious choice as ultimate screen villain, but the brilliance of the Palpatine character is that he convinces others to commit heinous acts and yet believe their doing the right thing. That smile he gives behind Darth, after he tells him that he killed his own wife, just despicable. I also found it very creepy and sad that the first things Vader says upon awaking in the suit were basically where is my wife, is she okay? The end of Return of the Jedi not withstanding, it was weird to hear such a vulnerable kind of concern coming out of that mask.

yeah. It could have been done much, much better. More of a real tragedy structure, you know? But it is done in a way that is pretty darn satisfying.

Essentially I think it is the character of Vader that propels the massive popularity of this franchise. Certainly I think his iconic nautre trumps that of all other characters Lucas has created (yes, even Indy), and elevated the original beyond being just another sci-fi genre film. It is that brilliant screen character that made the movie a cultural phenomenon, IMO, the combination of look and action, set in a world of princesses and chivalry, etc. etc, and especially that he is the proto-cybernetic bad guy, a real 20th century archetype that contains within it all the subconscious fears and concerns we have in this increasingly technological age.

I guess 3PO's memory is whiped, but not R2s? Zany. I was always worried about 'wouldn't Anni/Vader recognize those droids, especially the one he built?' But by the end, I can see there were more important things on his mind for a while there, so now it's easier for me to take.

I still think the Anni born on Tatooine thing is a bungle. Wouldn't Vader know that was his home planet in EpIV, and maybe sight-see a bit to see the ol' farm his moms used to live on? I liked the idea as expressed in the novelisation of EpVI, where when talking to Luke on Dagobah; 'from a certain point of view,' that converstaion. Ben tells him he took Luke to live with Ben's brother, Owen (not Anni's brother, or half brother, or step brother, or whatever he is), on the out-of-the-way planet where he (Ben) grew up. I don't know if that was from original dialogue cut from the film, or if the novelist made that up, but it's there in print, and I always liked it like that. "That wizard's just a crazy old man' really rings right if you think about them being brothers who disagree, and in the end the adventurous one comes back with his tail between his legs, needing a big favor from his disapproving, older brother. Of course, this would have been coming from a mindset where Jedi come to the order as teens, not the new movies' ideas that they are plucked away as 'younglings.' You know, 'when I first knew him, he was already a great pilot' just doesn't quite work now, since EpI et al. More that Anni and even Ben were just like Luke, a teen with a taste for adventure who was a little too excited to be in the middle of all the 'important' action. Oh well.

Some of the action sequences in this new movie are just incredible. So many wonderful light-saber duels! Maybe even more than in all the other films combined, or at least as many! If this film doesn't win the Oscar for best visual effects (not to mention sound design), I may burn down the Academy. The others were clearly robbed. Heck, this film should be up for 'best animated picture' according to the rules the set when the started that new category. Technically, this film is an achievement like no other in motion picture history (of course, the same could be said of the other two, but that doesn't make them good movies).

[Inuyasha]

But remember, in ep IV, Vader is only going after the droids. Remember he never lands there but has the stormtroopers down there. Possibly since Anakin is essentially dead, Vader does not want to recognize his home planet or all memory of his childhood has been lost due to the dark side. Whatever good he had in him before he became Vader is gone?

ADDED:
Now onto another question, does the Emperor know in empire and rotj that skywalker is anakins son? I know the obvious answer is yes, but on another board people are arguing he doesnt:


-------
In the years since the Death Star has blown up, Vader has realized that
Luke is his son, and is seeking him relentlessly. He does not tell the
Emperor this, however, and it seems as though Vader is merely
relentlessly pursuing the rebellion. After the attack on Hoth,
however, Vader loses interest in everything else except pursuing the
Falcon, which is his only link to Luke.


While he is in the middle of an asteroid field, he gets a transmission
from the Emperor. Vader orders the ship out of the asteroid before he
responds, ostensibly in order to send a clear transmission, but more
likely because he does not want to have to explain to the Emperor why
he has maneuvered a Star Destroyer into an asteroid field in order to
catch a beat-up freighter.


When he talks to the Emperor, the Emperor has NEWS! Guess what, Vader,
there is a disturbance in the Force -- we have a new enemy. "I have
felt it," admits Vader (trying to cover himself), though he downplays
Luke's importance ("He's just a boy.") Vader suggests turning Luke
instead of destroying him, and the Emperor agrees. Vader now has a
"new mission" from the Emperor, but never bothers to tell the Emperor
that he was *already* searching for Luke when the Emperor called him.


What's the big secret? What is going on is that Vader wants his son,
Luke, to join him and help him overthrow the Emperor (so they can rule
the Galaxy as father and son). How much of this does the Emperor
guess? Hard to say. But what the Emperor does NOT know is that the
"son of Skywalker" is actually the son of Vader. Otherwise, he would
have said, "your son must not become a Jedi".
----

I don't buy this, but the 'star wars experts' are agreeing that the emperor doesn't know. I don't get how he could not have known.

[Zeppo]

But remember, in ep IV, Vader is only going after the droids. Remember he never lands there but has the stormtroopers down there. Possibly since Anakin is essentially dead, Vader does not want to recognize his home planet or all memory of his childhood has been lost due to the dark side. Whatever good he had in him before he became Vader is gone?

Yeah, he didn't go down to the surface, but you'd think he'd know where he was. I mean, I guess you can say he's killed off all that stuff that would connect him to his home, but I still think it's a bit odd.

It just appears to me that Lucas changed his mind about the role of Tatooine between Jedi and EpI. I for one like the old version, where Ben and Owen were brothers, Tatooine was a worthless, out-of-the-way place, and Anni was a hot-shot pilot that Obi Wan thought he could train into a Jedi to help them all out in the big war with the Sith. Not the current version, wherein Obi Wan reluctantly took Anni under his wing after his master was the rash one, and that the council forced him to train the kid (also, wasn't Yoda the 'Jedi Master who instructed me,' not Qui-Gon?).

But hey, this latest movie is satisfying enough as a film, and in the way it ties it all up, to lessen all those problems I've had with Eps. I & II.

[Teal]

Loved it. Good conclusion to the series. I know because I pulled out Ep IV this morning, and it looks different in light of watching Sith last night. Twice. Yep, I went at 3:45 and called mix to see what he thought of it, only to find out that he hadn't gone yet. He was going to go alone to the 10:15, so I drove back out there and went again. It was good the second time as well.

Question: Word is that Lucas himself is in the film. Anyone catch him? Supposedly all you can recognize of him is the beard. Anyone?

[btmmayor]

Anakin is still the chosen one, not Luke. His route to fulfill the prophecy just takes a rather unexpected route.

That's one of the great things about this story... for popcorn entertainment, it's got a very sticky take on good and evil. We're basically talking about a saviour of the universe who ends up committing mass murder for twenty years before realizing his purpose, which in turn only happens because of his son's faith in him, something other "heroes" in the story (older Obi-Wan and Yoda) don't share in the slightest. And while the Jedi are obviously soulful, appealing heroes, they are constantly making poor choices, basically forcing Anakin to look elsewhere for guidance by keeping him at arms length and, let's face it, treating him like sh*t, coupled with their inability to believe there is any good left in Vader by the time period of the originals rolls around.

You could say that the prequels are about how evil thinks it's doing the right thing, and the originals are about the danger of viewing evil as 100%, grade-A evil with a capital 'E'. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" Obi-Wan says in this one, and yet that's exactly what he's doing when Luke asks him if there's still good in Vader, and he shoots him down, with all that "more machine than man" and "I once thought as you did" business. Yoda and Obi-Wan see death as the only solution for Vader and the Emperor, and not only death for the villains... they think they world is ending because Luke won't leave his friends to certain suffering and death at Vader's hands on Bespin. More of that Jedi 'non-attachment' bullsh*t that, frankly, sort of got them into this mess in the first place, preaching a very milk-toast brand of compassion and forcing Anakin to lead a double life.

I like to think that Luke's the light that cuts through the fog, imbued with such a sense of optimism and feeling that the more dogmatic aspects of Jedi training just sort of roll off his back. In the end, it's that very attachment to and belief in his father that ends up setting things right, something the Jedi would have frowned upon. By the end of the movie, I feel like Luke isn't a Jedi quite in the mold of the Old Republic, but more an amalgamation of light and dark, wisdom and passion. There he is at the end, the brightest shining force user in the galaxy, dressed in black.

On another note, Palpatine was more explicit in an earlier draft of the script that he created Anakin via his manipulation of the midichlorians. Could have been a lie, however, like his claim to know the secret to saving people from death. Yet, if Palpatine did 'father' him, in a sense, then what he thought was going to be his greatest weapon also would turn out to the one person close enough to spell his own doom. But there's a lot of that going around... like I said, the Jedi really do everything they can to bring about their own demise.

What a wild character that Palpatine is. Vader's always been the obvious choice as ultimate screen villain, but the brilliance of the Palpatine character is that he convinces others to commit heinous acts and yet believe their doing the right thing. That smile he gives behind Darth, after he tells him that he killed his own wife, just despicable. I also found it very creepy and sad that the first things Vader says upon awaking in the suit were basically where is my wife, is she okay? The end of Return of the Jedi not withstanding, it was weird to hear such a vulnerable kind of concern coming out of that mask.

Wow, verbose, huh? I liked the movie a lot. Was sort of blown away by the last hour and a half, and that first twenty minutes had that jaunty, fun spirit of Han, Luke and Leia running around the Death Star. Those initial love scenes back on Coruscant are where the dialogue hurts the film most, but that stuff doesn't really bother me at this point. I could do without the snickering in the theater during those points, however. We don't have to pretend it's good dialogue, but there's something so empty about that snickering... this sort of cynical laugh that arises when you're 'not' enjoying something. Maybe it's just these jaded New York audiences.

I'd place it up there with New Hope and Empire (which has always been my favorite). It's got patches that are rougher than anything in those two films, but I think in a lot of ways it's more ambitious than the old films, and reaches a depth of feeling (particularly in the Order 66 section) that's un-matched in the series.

Great post Slumber. You echo my feelings exactly.

[Inuyasha]

Funny. I watched Ep 4 too last night after the movie. I'll probably end up seeing ep3 again since it's one of those movies you must see in the theaters.


Was anyone surprised that no mention of the death star during the film until they showed it at the end? Remember at the end of ep3, dooku gets the death star plans to hide away. I guess the jedi don't know about the death star when episode 3 ends?

[TheGamer]

Loved it. Good conclusion to the series. I know because I pulled out Ep IV this morning, and it looks different in light of watching Sith last night. Twice. Yep, I went at 3:45 and called mix to see what he thought of it, only to find out that he hadn't gone yet. He was going to go alone to the 10:15, so I drove back out there and went again. It was good the second time as well.

Question: Word is that Lucas himself is in the film. Anyone catch him? Supposedly all you can recognize of him is the beard. Anyone?

I believe Lucas was one of the people with Palp at the opera. His son was the last "youngling" that was killed at the Jedi Temple when Bail Organa showed up.