I'm done with EA Football

redneck · Post by **redneck** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:54 pm

Guys,

Don't take this a a fan boy post, it isn't. I just want to vent that I have finally had it with the EA Sports football engine for NCAA and Madden.

I've been playing football games on ALL platforms (Including all the great and off the beat PC football games of the early 90's) and it used to be my favorite sport to play video wise, but not anymore. I find the EA football engine (Yes, it has improved) to be old and stale and frankly not fun to play anymore.

ESPN NFL 2K4 was the only recent game that I actually felt like I was playing the game of football AND had a blast too! NFL Gameday 98 also stands out as an awesome game to play. So much fun. Then the Gameday series went all to hell.

If EA doesn't rebuild from the ground up (Which I'm sure they won't), for the next-gen systems, we'll all be forced to play the same old football engine, which is NOT IMO worth $50 every year to play. (I just read on here that EA is using Madden's engine for its AFL game. Yawn. No thanks. Some of you like that EA does this and that's cool as they can keep selling basically the same game every year. But for me, I've had it. No more EA football games for me.

Also, I want to add that being an old-school football gamer from way back, I HATE the lame ass features they are putting into these football games now (NCAA's discipline system and impact player, "Cribs", Madden cards etc...) They don't even let the gamer choose for themselves if they want this crap or not as you can't turn most of it off.

Does anyone else feel this way or am I just one of those customers that EA isn't catering to and doesn't care to cater to? Will we ever see the likes of a Front Page Sports Football game again?

Thanks for reading and please, no flames or hostile discussions as this wasn't my intention of the post. I just want to know how you guys feel (Both old-school guys and the newer guys).

red

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:57 pm

redneck wrote: Thanks for reading and please, no flames or hostile discussions as this wasn't my intention of the post.

LMAO!

redneck · Post by **redneck** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:01 pm

Danimal,

Judging by the hostility in recent threads for no reason, I want some good discussion about how you feel about today's football games.

Do you like the gameplay and all the new features etc... in today's football games from EA?

Surely, you can add something more to this discussion than a lame LMAO.

red

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:05 pm

red,

Had you written this post-NCAA 2005 and pre-Madden 2005, i would have been right there with ya. But with Madden 2005 and now NCAA 2006, i have to disagree. I loved Madden '05 and am really enjoying NCAA '06. They both have flaws, but this is as good a college game as we've seen IMO.
Sorry you're not digging it though and i hope you find something in the next gen that hits you.

Rally

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:11 pm

redneck wrote:Danimal,

Judging by the hostility in recent threads for no reason, I want some good discussion about how you feel about today's football games.

Do you like the gameplay and all the new features etc... in today's football games from EA?

Surely, you can add something more to this discussion than a lame LMAO.

red

No I really can't, It's a lame topic, so you get a lame response.

There is a 20 page thread on NCAA impressions, perhaps that would be a good place to find out how people feel about it?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:25 pm

This discussion should not be limited to EA football games, or EA in general. All of them do this to a certain degree.

I get frustrated when new features get added when there are other problems that remain unfixed from a year to year basis.

Let's add Race for the Heisman, but let's leave in the WR drops and the playcalling AI that allows Oklahoma to play an 8 minute quarter game and give Adrian Peterson 3 carries. Let's take the time to program a butt ugly low res pre game show with Corso putting on an Akron helmet --and let's hype that as a new feature, but let's break the QB stats. Let's add Impact Players but allow them to catch every deep ball thrown to them when they're in the zone. Oh, and we gotta keep the Discipline system that allows a CPU team to suspend its kicker and use a QB in its place that can't make an extra point.

The current EA football engine needs to be retired. The new consoles give EA that opportunity, and I hope they use it. The days of Mario Running, extremely limited ball physics, DBs with eyes in the back of their head and 50 inch verticals, uncanny QB accuracy, and a horrible ball-to-player collision detection should never see the light of day ever again.

redneck · Post by **redneck** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:39 pm

Bill,

I agree with you. Good points. I only stated EA Football because sadly, they are the only game in town at the moment.

red

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 3:42 pm

red,

Had you written this post-NCAA 2005 and pre-Madden 2005, i would have been right there with ya. But with Madden 2005 and now NCAA 2006, i have to disagree. I loved Madden '05 and am really enjoying NCAA '06. They both have flaws, but this is as good a college game as we've seen IMO.
Sorry you're not digging it though and i hope you find something in the next gen that hits you.

Rally

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:19 pm

Danimal is pretty much right about his LMAO response. I really don't think anyone cares...and it is a lame post.

This thread has been done about 10X since EA got exclusive rights to the NFL (and NCAA for that matter since no one else makes a game). Do a little search and find all of the discussion you need. Then we don't have to read/write the same s*** over again for the 11th time.

Here...I'll even give you a start:

http://www.digitalsportspage.com/module ... +exclusive

Oh yeah, and there is this one...no responses...that probably should have given you a good indication of how this thread would go.

http://www.digitalsportspage.com/module ... +exclusive

Happy reading!

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:37 pm

I'm done with SquareSoft RPG's!

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:37 pm

Well, I'm just happy they left in the "Mascot" mode.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:50 pm

I doubt we'll ever see a FPS Football game, although if I had the money I'd try to find the dynamix/sierra people who did the game and hire them back to do a console version.

It does suck if you don't like EA football as they are the only games in town anymore. I agree there are some things that bug me about NCAA 2006, but overall I like it quite well. It does feel like a college football game to me gameplay wise and that's all I had wanted since 2004.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 5:41 pm

No matter how good football games (or sports games, or hell...games in general) get, people will still want more.

Nothigng wrong with that. I look at it like this though. When I was playing atari football, or hell even the early Madden titles I never in a million years dreamed we'd be playing what we are today.

These are not reality, they are games. I can understand frustration, but if you're not having fun maybe it's time to find something else.

I don't think video games will ever really hold up to what some people want.

Everyone raves about back in the day with Tecmo Bowl or Gameday 98. Both great games, I agree 100 percent. However, they're by no means full on sims either now are they?

who was bitching about Bo Jackson being unstopable? I never heard anyone b*tch about it. Anyone ever really b*tch about super stiff arms in Gameday 98, or being able to spin your way down the field breaking tackle after tackle?

Nobody bitched. Why? Because they were fun games man....fun games. I really wish we could get back to playing games and having fun instead of dissecting every little detail.... I really do.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:12 pm

Boom wrote:Everyone raves about back in the day with Tecmo Bowl or Gameday 98. Both great games, I agree 100 percent. However, they're by no means full on sims either now are they?

who was bitching about Bo Jackson being unstopable? I never heard anyone b*tch about it. Anyone ever really b*tch about super stiff arms in Gameday 98, or being able to spin your way down the field breaking tackle after tackle?

Nobody bitched. Why? Because they were fun games man....fun games. I really wish we could get back to playing games and having fun instead of dissecting every little detail.... I really do.

A few reasons for this:

Expectations were drastically lower back in those days. I played Intellivision Baseball so much that I could throw a no hitter against another player unless they hit the ball to a specific location on the field. But I still played it. A ton. In the early 80s, the expectations were so low that anything would suffice. The bar keeps raising, though, and with that so do expectations.

Same with games like the original Hardball. What a great game that was. Realistic? Of course not. But to see the pitches move like they did, it was just fascinating because we'd never seen anything like it before. The original NFL2K had all sorts of realism issues, tons of 'em. But the animations and controls were absoutely amazing, so much so that those realism issues were put on the back burner. Same with NCAA football pre 2005. 2004 is considerd the benchmark of the series but it's not totally realistic, but most of us didn't care. I LOVED the original NBA Live. Totally unrealistic game. But it was fluid 5 on 5 basketball! It blew me away.

There comes a point though when you're just reshuffling the same stuff and selling it off as a new game and I think that's wrong.

When people bring up how much they loved Game X back in the day, it is a completely different era of gaming. It's literally night and day. What a gamer would (or should) put up with in 1990 (or even 1998) isn't acceptable in 2005, or at least shouldn't be IMO.

I discussed this in a thread over at OS today. Most of us here are older folk. When we cut our teeth on the classic games questions of "realism" rarely came up. They really didn't come up for me until I had been playing games for years and I wanted more out of my games. When I see a game like FPS Football nail down certain aspects of football back in 1995 I just flat out do not understand why it's considered bad form to complain when a game from a billion dollar company 10 years later screw some of those same aspects up.

I don't see too many peole dissecting or nitpicking every little minute detail. I see legitimate gripes about a game -- gripes that really are affecting some people's enjoyment of something they spent 50 bones on. My personal complaints about the game aren't of the "They got OSU's socks wrong" variety, it's "Why does Santonio Holmes drop 4 passes a game?" variety. To me, that's a big deal. And not fun.

And I know I'm in the minority on this re: NCAA. I'm fine with that. But I'm not lowering my expectations just because I used to love 4th and Inches back on the C-64.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:34 pm

I can empathize with Bill and others who seek total realism from a football game. I'm happy with NCAA 06 even though I plan some slider tweaks, but my expectations aren't as high as true pigskin zealots.

But my expectations for my three favorite genres of sports sim games -- soccer, racing and hockey -- are high. So I know where Bill and other cats are coming from.

Take NHL 2005, for example. I was PISSED at EA last fall for publishing that piece of sh*t, especially since the company made such great strides in realism with NHL 2004, a fine game.

But at least in hockey there was a superb rival product, ESPN NHL 2K5, as an alternative. Football gamers don't have that luxury for new football games now that EA has a monopoly in the genre.

Take care,
PK

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:38 pm

MizzouRah wrote:I doubt we'll ever see a FPS Football game, although if I had the money I'd try to find the dynamix/sierra people who did the game and hire them back to do a console version.

Sad things is, Pat Cook was the guy that created FPS Football, left to work for Microsoft and was working on NFL Fever. I have no idea what he is doing now, but he sure didn't bring any FPS feel to THAT console game.

Thing is, if they would release editing tools to work with it in conjunction, the Xbox and Xbox 360 would be the perfect platforms for the rebirth of FPS Football. Xbox Live could really fuel a project like that, if they would allow swapping of files, so the gurus could tweak the hell out of the ratings to create a game with much better results.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 6:49 pm

Boom wrote: Everyone raves about back in the day with Tecmo Bowl or Gameday 98. Both great games, I agree 100 percent. However, they're by no means full on sims either now are they?

who was bitching about Bo Jackson being unstopable? I never heard anyone b*tch about it. Anyone ever really b*tch about super stiff arms in Gameday 98, or being able to spin your way down the field breaking tackle after tackle?

Nobody bitched. Why? Because they were fun games man....fun games. I really wish we could get back to playing games and having fun instead of dissecting every little detail.... I really do.

They were also pre-internet, dude. I agree, they were fun games, but if you had forums to whine about them on, there would have been plenty of complaints.

But your main point is dead on. If you don't like the game, play something else. Since I refuse to buy any EA products, I have to skip NCAA 06, which kind of sucks, since it looks like a fun game. But it's not like I have to sit and stare at my Xbox because there are no games. There are still many more great games than I will have time to play.

Yep, EA exclusive license sucks, but if we all buy Madden anyway, then it was worth it for EA. It may be the greratest game ever created, but I don't want to reward EA's actions. But it's a personal thing. If the exclusive is not that big a deal to someone, there is no eason not to buy any game they want.

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:50 pm

Bill,
I see your points and understand them perfectly. Also, I'm not trying to flame.

I guess I just have lower expectations, or maybe realistic expectations (again, not flaming). I understand that these are games. Hell yeah I want to see a game where the balloon lob into 3 defenders isn't rewarded where the man open on the post or quick slant is.

Hell yeah I don't wanna see my boy vickers run over the defense for 298 yards (well, maybe I do

).

I just personally don't fee that there will ever be the perfect game. I want it, but I just don't believe you can program it.

This past year I've thoroughly enjoyed Madden 2005, ESPN 2K5 and now NCAA 2006. All have their fair share of problems, but all of very fun IMO.

Maybe I wouldn't agree so much if I played more offline dynasty stuff. I'm pretty much strictly online with a tight-nit group. We police ourselves well and have a really good time.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:59 pm

Boom wrote:Bill,
I see your points and understand them perfectly. Also, I'm not trying to flame.

I guess I just have lower expectations, or maybe realistic expectations (again, not flaming). I understand that these are games. Hell yeah I want to see a game where the balloon lob into 3 defenders isn't rewarded where the man open on the post or quick slant is.

Hell yeah I don't wanna see my boy vickers run over the defense for 298 yards (well, maybe I do ).

I just personally don't fee that there will ever be the perfect I want it, but I just don't believe you can program it.

This past year I've thoroughly enjoyed Madden 2005, ESPN 2K5 and now NCAA 2006. All have their fair share of problems, but all of very fun IMO.

Maybe I wouldn't agree so much if I played more offline dynasty stuff. I'm pretty much strictly online with a tight-nit group. We police ourselves well and have a really good time.

If you are having fun then thats all that matters. Hell, I know I am. 2006 is a freaking blast from the opening kickoff to the final gun and I am playing offline as much as I am online.

B00M,

I tried to get you the other day for a game but you were busy with someone else I assume. I still want a rematch of our 2004 game where I ended up losing do to the clock saying 0:00 with me on your 2 or 3 yard line... Georgia/Colorado will not be fair I don't think this year, but I will gladly play with someone else... Half the fun in this game online is playing with different teams.

BD

Boom · Post by **Boom** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:18 pm

You can play with Georgia and me CU. I have no problems with that at all.

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 8:50 pm

Boom wrote: I just personally don't fee that there will ever be the perfect game. I want it, but I just don't believe you can program it.

You make some good points, Boom, but I've got to disagree with you here. I remember playing Madden '91-'94 with my roommates back in college, and the money plays back then were the Deep Ball. Here we are, almost 15 full years later, and some things still haven't changed. I don't think we'll soon see the perfect football game, either. But the Deep Ball isn't still in the game because there is no way for programmers to get rid of it. IMO, it's there because EA believes their customers want it.

Then again, that wouldn't explain dropped passes or some of the other things I've read complaints about, so what do I know.

TrojanMan · Post by **TrojanMan** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:20 pm

Personally, I enjoy EA's games. However, I hate the super-hero features they love to add that ruins the balance of the game. From the haymaker in Fight Night to the superman guys in NCAA, it's a pattern that needs to stop.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 9:34 pm

Boom wrote:Bill,
I see your points and understand them perfectly. Also, I'm not trying to flame.

I guess I just have lower expectations, or maybe realistic expectations (again, not flaming). I understand that these are games. Hell yeah I want to see a game where the balloon lob into 3 defenders isn't rewarded where the man open on the post or quick slant is.

Hell yeah I don't wanna see my boy vickers run over the defense for 298 yards (well, maybe I do ).

I just personally don't fee that there will ever be the perfect game. I want it, but I just don't believe you can program it.

This past year I've thoroughly enjoyed Madden 2005, ESPN 2K5 and now NCAA 2006. All have their fair share of problems, but all of very fun IMO.

Maybe I wouldn't agree so much if I played more offline dynasty stuff. I'm pretty much strictly online with a tight-nit group. We police ourselves well and have a really good time.

Boom I didn't take it as a flame. Just a dicussion. I'm not asking for a perfect game by any stretch. My expectations aren't that high, really. I do want the fundamentals to be covered, though and I especially want the major complaints from previous years fixed if they plan on charging full price.

Thing is, I'm about done w/ my NCAA review and I still plan on playing it. It's not like I think it's a steamling pile, despite my rantings. I'm just mad so much went 'unfixed' and that the game is not what I feel it could have been, or more importantly, should have been.

Now, your mention of online play is a very different animal. NCAA 2006 in a multiplayer hot seat dynasty is a whole new ball of wax. Anytime you get a tight knit gaming group together it increases the fun tenfold IMO.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jul 18, 2005 11:44 pm

GTHobbes wrote: You make some good points, Boom, but I've got to disagree with you here. I remember playing Madden '91-'94 with my roommates back in college, and the money plays back then were the Deep Ball. Here we are, almost 15 full years later, and some things still haven't changed. I don't think we'll soon see the perfect football game, either. But the Deep Ball isn't still in the game because there is no way for programmers to get rid of it. IMO, it's there because EA believes their customers want it.

Well despite the original title (and I think intent) of this thread, it has generated some interesting discussion.

Here is one of the few times GT and I will agree. Many things could have been fixed, many things could have been done better. RFTH mode is a joke to me, but I think about the casual customer you think they would have enjoyed that mode if there created player was riding the bench his freshmen year? But EA chooses not to fix them for fear of alienating the casual user, and as much as we hate them. The "ballers" are the casual user and their biggest customer.

I said it in another thread, you've got the #1 franchise in terms of sales and those sales go up every year. Do you want to be the guy who pulls the switch on an engine change and to have it blow up in your face?

It is easy to innovate and take chances when you are on the bottom and trying to knock off the top dog. But if you think every other company, Take Two included, doesn't want to be in EA / Madden's position then your crazy. As much as the developers may want to take chances, it is the suits who control thing especially in a company the size of EA.

Do I agree with it, heck No. I have a hard time stomaching the presentation in EA games. Some of the gameplay decessions are baffeling to me. But I do enjoy some of them, so I will play them. Every once in a while we get turkeys (Madden 04, NCAA 05, 2K5) and then we get surprises (Madden 05, MVP 05, 2K4)

Personally until they go back to the 2 year dev cycle I don't think this pattern will ever change.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:04 am

Jayhawker wrote:
MizzouRah wrote:I doubt we'll ever see a FPS Football game, although if I had the money I'd try to find the dynamix/sierra people who did the game and hire them back to do a console version.
Sad things is, Pat Cook was the guy that created FPS Football, left to work for Microsoft and was working on NFL Fever. I have no idea what he is doing now, but he sure didn't bring any FPS feel to THAT console game.

Thing is, if they would release editing tools to work with it in conjunction, the Xbox and Xbox 360 would be the perfect platforms for the rebirth of FPS Football. Xbox Live could really fuel a project like that, if they would allow swapping of files, so the gurus could tweak the hell out of the ratings to create a game with much better results.

Well, maybe Cook was the major creator of the game, but they had one heck of a team back then and the Sierra mess sent the FPS team all over the place.

Maybe the mass market is people who like RFTH and additions like that. We scream for FPS, High Heat, and Tecmo like current day games, but I don't think we'll go down that road again. I mean how big could the FPS series have been for Sierra to cancel the series?

As long as EA is selling the s*** out of games, they'll continue the trend.

Digital Sportspage

I'm done with EA Football

I'm done with EA Football

Re: I'm done with EA Football