Are EBs and Gamestops becoming irrelevant?

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:07 am

I ask this question not out of anger or an agenda against Gamestop or EB, but because it seems like the only reason I go into one of these stores anymore is because I happen to be shopping with my wife and it beats going into Chicos or the Gap.

Also, I have an EB close to work that I sometimes walk down to on a break. The manager has a chip on his shoulder about the 360 and the rest of the staff follows suit. They all seem very impressed by the PS3 news and the guy working yesterday told me that while he has a 360, there isn’t the variety of games that make him want to play it. Considering what Sony showed yesterday, I am not sure I see where the PS3 is going to be any different. Maybe he loves racing games and shooters.

I have also seen this attitude at a few other stores. I think and understand that there is some bitterness because Microsoft basically shafted game stores and seemed to concentrate their shipments on the Best Buys, Targets and larger chain stores. But at the same time, they are game stores and shouldn’t they at least try and be knowledgeable and enthusiastic about all of the consoles? I saw the same attitude with the Dreamcast and the original Xbox. I just don’t get it.

Even worse, when a new game comes out, I am often met with blank stares when I ask about, for example, ‘March Madness’ or ‘NHL 2K6.’ I will be aware of the day it should come in and want to get a time, and the employee often comes out with comments like “I think that will be out next month” or “I don’t think that game is being developed this year.” This is not one store I am talking about; there are probably 10 stores within close driving distance of my house (metro Atlanta on the north side) and I see this lack of knowledge all too often.

Honestly, on a weekly basis are there that many games released that an employee shouldn’t have an idea of what is coming in the store? I can go down to Barnes and Noble and ask about a new book and if the person doesn’t know, they find out ASAP. And they seem to be a lot more knowledgeable about release dates and availability. And there are a lot more books released than games. And it is not like working at B&N is a career job that pays top of the scale.

And trying to get someone to open a box that just came in is akin to getting PK to vote for Hilary Clinton. It just ain’t gonna happen. Come back later and we just might have that box open but we are simply too busy to handle that right this moment. Who cares if I am willing and ready to drop $60 bones on a video game that I can get at another store down the street? Honesty, do so many boxes come in a day that going the extra mile for a customer and actually checking for a new game that much of an ordeal? I had one employee tell me that on an average day they get “hundreds” of boxes. If true, where do they fit all of that stuff??

Even more annoying and puzzling, is that I can never find peripherals at game stores. Items like Action Replay or VGA adapters or a new third party controller are never available. But I can go to Best Buy or Frys or even Target and find what I need. Is shelf space a problem or are the profit margins to narrow for game stores to carry game peripherals? Either way, it doesn’t make me want to run to Gamestop or EB for my gaming needs.

So if you don’t go to a game store for expertise or variety of selection, why go? Price? Frys always has a discount the first week a game comes out – something the game stores never do. And if I want a second hand game, why pay, for example, $54.00 for Madden 06 360, when I can get it for under $30 shipped from half.com or Ebay??

The only reason I spend money in games stores is because they have a game on release day and I want to get it as soon as possible (Madden, NCAA, etc). I find myself passing them by at the mall and going into Radio Shack, where I might actually see something remotely interesting.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:15 am

I worked at EB and we would have 10 or so boxes to open on a "busy" day. I hated having to check those in on my own too. Game periferals have a higher margin than games which have a higher margin than consoles.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:27 am

Preordering is almost pointless these days. Other stores often get games BEFORE the big 2. The big 2 will NEVER let a game go early and will NEVER drip the price.

I got NCAA last year a few days early from TRU.... and I got madden on release night for like 37 bucks.

I asked an EB employee once about them price matching, they looked at me like I just offered to sell them some crack.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:42 am

Kevin -

I couldn't agree more with your post. I don't understand how these stores are staying in business. What exactly are they offering that we can't get elsewhere with the added benefit of a better shopping experience. I've had the same issues with them in the past, back before Best Buy, Target, etc would have new game releases the day after ship date and I was forced to use these stores if I "had to have it". Back then, they were the only place to get a game if you didn't want an extra day or two for the big box stores, and their employees would give me the same blank stares when I'd ask for MotoGP2 or some other new title that they were only getting 2 copies of. Then, to get them to open a box to find it, was like pulling teeth.

Now, I just goto Best Buy and use a free $5 off coupon (Gamer's Gift Card anyone?) for every new game purchase... unless Outpost.com (Fry's) is running a special sale price + free shipping.

The guys at Best Buy are just as dumb, but when I tell them that "such and such game shipped yesterday, and all of the other stores are already selling it (but I want to buy it here), can you check in the back for me"... 9 times out of 10, they'll run to the back and dig it out of a box for me, no questions asked. I was at Target yesterday and was shocked to see several new Plantronics x30 headset's sitting there. 3yrs ago, you'd never see a console accessory on their shelves that quick. Also, Target (and sometimes Walmart as well) are good about selling games as soon as they get them, even before the street date. Most of the checkout people don't even read the "don't sell before" sticker on top.

I guess GameStop and EB still have the used game market as an attraction, but only for the people that either too lazy or too impatient to buy and sell used games on eBay/Half.com at actual market prices.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:52 am

bdunn13 wrote: I asked an EB employee once about them price matching, they looked at me like I just offered to sell them some crack.

That's what finally did me in. I went to a GameStop at my local mall 2-3yrs ago, to buy Madden (Xbox) on release day (which was advertised in the Best Buy circular for $49.99). This was before Best Buy would have them available right away, and GameStop was the only close store that would have it available on release day. They wanted $54.99 for the game, stating that they had to charge more due to being inside of the mall (and the higher rent). When I asked to pricematch Best Buy (which is only 2 miles down the road) they said no, that they can only pricematch stores inside of the mall (in this case, EB).

So, instead of selling me a game at MSRP and moving a unit or merchandise, they instead pissed off a customer who then bought the game at a big box competitor and said customer vowed never to buy from them again. Great business model there.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed May 10, 2006 9:53 am

I have two EB/GS within 2 miles of my house and I used to make weekly stops, but now those stops are down to monthly or less. I haven't bought a used game at EB in a year or two because the ebay used games are much cheaper and in better condition. The only time I trade in games at EB/GS is if they have a 2 for 1 special or if I have a game that my kids got a hold of the case I don't want to chance selling it on Ebay.

One thing I've noticed about two different EB's in the area, which is bound to get them in trouble here in PA, is that they don't charge sales tax if you buy something using their gift cards.

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:16 am

I have an EB up the street from my house, and while I gripe sometimes about the return/exchange policy, it's pretty much my only place for games.

These 'Boutiques' offer something the big chains don't IF you get lucky and there's a good staff/manager: personal attention.

I got my 360 on launch night because I'm a regular and spend a lot of $ in there, so the manager made sure I was on the 'good' list. He'll hold new releases, suggest games that I'll like, and already knows that I should be first on the reserve list for the PS3 and Wii.

I pay a little for that privilege, but it's worth it.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:20 am

I have also experienced every single point you mentioned Kevin. Fortunately I do most of my game shopping for used games online these days. I only go to the stores for the 'gotta have it now' moments because there is one a 5 minute walk from my apartment.

mjb2123 · Post by **mjb2123** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:42 am

I guess I'm lucky. I have an EB about 2 miles from my house and a Gamestop about 1 mile.

I've only been in the EB 2-3 times. The one person that was there everytime I went was friendly, but didn't seem to know much about future releases or anything.

The guys at the Gamestop near me are actually friendly and knowledgeable. I go there to get all my games as I've never had an issue. These guys are all 360 owners so they always talk about what games they enjoy and what new XBL arcade games are out etc...

I do agree about peripherals though. They never seem to have any and I usually find myself going to the Target that's right next door to purchase peripherals. Although when I asked about a 360 Play and Charge Kit, they went into the back to get one for me as they weren't displayed on the wall.

My only gripe about the Gamestop is that they sell out newly released 360 games fast. If I don't pre-order, I'm not going to be able to get the game by the time I get home from work around 5:30-6:00. They're always sold out by then. Of course, I can walk right next door and buy it at Target, but I get annoyed with Target. I hate having to ring the bell or walk around looking for employee to come open the "game cabinet" so I can get my game.

At least where I am, prices are the same at EB, Gamestop, Target, Best Buy etc... All are within 2-3 miles of my house, but the Gamestop is the closest. Since I'm satisfied with the service at Gamestop and it's a closer drive, I go there.

Feanor · Post by **Feanor** » Wed May 10, 2006 10:54 am

I quite like Gamestop and have the Value Card which gets me 10% off used games and 10% extra on trade-ins. I bought the PS2 version of Outrun 2006 for $29.99 at Gamestop this weekend. I traded in Hot Shots Golf Fore for $5.50 which is decent value for that game, IMO.

Best Buy only had the PSP version of Outrun 2006 in stock, and the PS2 version wasn't even in their system when I asked them if they were getting it. Unless I'm trading in an old game I usually buy new games from Best Buy since I have their Reward Zone card.

I don't know if this is true across the US, but the prices in EB don't seem to be updated nearly enough. They still have used games on the shelves for higher prices than the game costs new. Genji is $20 new at Best Buy but EB still have used copies going for $25. I guess they'll get a few suckers to bite at that price, but it leaves a poor impression to anyone who is actually knowledgable about games.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed May 10, 2006 11:13 am

The only time I buy anything from EB now is if Best Buy doesn't have it (they're in the same mall). BB gets games at the same time, and with the Reward Zone program, I wind up saving money here and there because of the amount of games and other electronic crap I buy.

I have nothing against EB, they just don't offer any real incentive to shop there.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:02 pm

I guess I don't get the premise of this thread. Video game stores are just specialty stores, like any other specialty stores, no?

You can buy shoes at WalMart, Target or online, does that make shoe stores irrelevant?

You can buy CD's at WalMart, Target or online, does that make music stores irrelevant?

How are video game stores different?

And as far as the attitudes of the employees goes, to me they seem no different than any other retail employees. When it comes to buying video games I've had both good and bad experiences with employees at GameStop, EB, Best Buy, Target, wherever.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:19 pm

lexbur wrote:I guess I don't get the premise of this thread. Video game stores are just specialty stores, like any other specialty stores, no?

You can buy shoes at WalMart, Target or online, does that make shoe stores irrelevant?

You can buy CD's at WalMart, Target or online, does that make music stores irrelevant?

How are video game stores different?

And as far as the attitudes of the employees goes, to me they seem no different than any other retail employees. When it comes to buying video games I've had both good and bad experiences with employees at GameStop, EB, Best Buy, Target, wherever.

He's saying that when you go to a speciality store you expect better service and better knowledge. Otherwise what is the point of going there. Why do I know release dates and they don't? Why is asking them to look something up on the computer such a big hassle and often they still can't give me the information I asked for? It's the same reason why you would go to a mom and pop business versus a Wal-Mart. (Even though EB and Gamestop aren't mom and pop businesses).

I agree with the original poster. The service you get in speciality videogame stores has gotten horrendous and since I worked my way through college as a cashier, I know bad customer service. Everything he mentioned has happened to me at my local EB and worse. I've seen them deliberately not pick up the phone when it's ringing. They are ill-informed and often rude and pushy know it all's when they aren't being just flat-out wrong. I get that most of them are kids and they are not being paid a lot and blah blah blah. Doesn't give them an excuse to not do their job properly. I know not every EB or Gamestop is this way but enough are so that I also now prefer to go to Best Buy's or large chains. They keep pissing of enough customers and more people will feel this way and start ultimately hurting their bottom line.

nyisles16 · Post by **nyisles16** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:21 pm

man - i have 3 Gamestops & 1 EB all within about 5-6 miles of me (3 of the stores are right across the street from one another!!).. havent had a bad experience yet with the stores themselves, & usually I will go there to get the "older games" or do trade ins... I found them to be quite knowledgeable about consoles & games, & actually were quite honest with me when I was purchasing the 360...

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:43 pm

lexbur wrote:I guess I don't get the premise of this thread. Video game stores are just specialty stores, like any other specialty stores, no?

You can buy shoes at WalMart, Target or online, does that make shoe stores irrelevant?

You can buy CD's at WalMart, Target or online, does that make music stores irrelevant?

How are video game stores different?

And as far as the attitudes of the employees goes, to me they seem no different than any other retail employees. When it comes to buying video games I've had both good and bad experiences with employees at GameStop, EB, Best Buy, Target, wherever.

The difference is that the video game stores sell the exact same merchandise as the other stores. Wal Mart, Target, etc. don't have every kind of shoe or every CD and in fact are quite limited in what they carry.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed May 10, 2006 12:46 pm

lexbur wrote:I guess I don't get the premise of this thread. Video game stores are just specialty stores, like any other specialty stores, no?

...refer to Brando's last sentence and Reeche's post to understand.

I used to go to EB since I could return the games I didn't like. I can't do that now. I used to go to EB to purchase used computer games. I can't do that now. I used to go to EB since they had reasonable trade-in values. They aren't competitive with ebay resale values now. I used to buy used games at EB. They are too expensive now. I used to go to EB to preorder systems. Well, I had to buy my 360 at Cosco (actually worked well for me) since EB couldn't honor my pre-order but yet EB/GS can somehow find the inventory to sell high-priced bundles online after launch. I used to go to EB to pre-order games to get them on the first day. Well, Best Buy gets them on the same date and I don't have to pre-order. I used to go to EB to talk games with knowledgeable staff. Now once they make their initial sales pitch when I walk in, if I don't pre-order what they are selling then they don't want to have much to do with me.

I will give my local EB credit for taking back an opened copy of MLB 2K6 360 for a full cash refund though. As a result, I have purchased a couple of games lately from them when I would have otherwised just bought them at BB, CC, or Target.

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:01 pm

Stores like Gamestop that sell mostly video games could be in trouble because in the future the game publishers will probably allow people to buy games that they can simply download. This way the publishers and consumers save money. Heck, longer term it may be the only way to buy video games in the future.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:07 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
I used to go to EB since I could return the games I didn't like. I can't do that now. I used to go to EB to purchase used computer games. I can't do that now. I used to go to EB since they had reasonable trade-in values. They aren't competitive with ebay resale values now. I used to buy used games at EB. They are too expensive now. I used to go to EB to preorder systems. Well, I had to buy my 360 at Cosco (actually worked well for me) since EB couldn't honor my pre-order but yet EB/GS can somehow find the inventory to sell high-priced bundles online after launch. I used to go to EB to pre-order games to get them on the first day. Well, Best Buy gets them on the same date and I don't have to pre-order. I used to go to EB to talk games with knowledgeable staff. Now once they make their initial sales pitch when I walk in, if I don't pre-order what they are selling then they don't want to have much to do with me.

That's great, Leebo, and my sentiments exactly. As a customer, I saw them take away more and more of the things that made me shop there. Horrible decline, really.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed May 10, 2006 1:20 pm

It's going to get worse since EB and Gamestop have merged.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed May 10, 2006 2:08 pm

reeche wrote:
He's saying that when you go to a speciality store you expect better service and better knowledge. Otherwise what is the point of going there. Why do I know release dates and they don't? Why is asking them to look something up on the computer such a big hassle and often they still can't give me the information I asked for? It's the same reason why you would go to a mom and pop business versus a Wal-Mart. (Even though EB and Gamestop aren't mom and pop businesses).

Fair enough, I see your point. I just guess that over the years my expectations have been lowered so much, not only by videogame store employees, but by any retail employee at any kind of store, that any useful service you do get you have to consider a bonus, and not something that's expected. Why single out videogame stores?

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Wed May 10, 2006 2:49 pm

Being a part time EB employee I have a small bias with my store, but I know for sure that our store very rarely has any of the issues that you guys are mentioning. I also know that most of the other local stores in our district are really good as well. Must have soemthing to do with different regions and/or districts on top of the employees.

The only time I give a blank stare when someone asks for a new release is if it is some overly Japanese title for gameboy or something.

Also, for some reason, the EB's in our area are FAR superior to the Gamestops as far as cust. service and inventory. I thought that was just the case in general, that perhaps EB's were just a better managed company overall (which is obviously irrelevant now), but apparently in other areas it is the opposite.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Wed May 10, 2006 4:09 pm

I guess it goes store by store. The Gamestop near my work is a car drive, but I go to them more often than the walking distance EB because the Gamestop had a 360 VGA adapter available while the EB guy pleaded ignorance and said he never heard of them. The Gamestop guys generally knows about sports game releases and will have midnight release sales for NCAA and Madden while EB closes at 9 as usual. Maybe it comes down to who the store manager is and what kind of people they hire.

I guess the 'point' of my original comment was that these are supposed to be specialty stores and I would expect that since games are their 'specialty', then things like VGA cables, third party controllers and Sharkports and other stuff like that should be available. If I have to go to Best Buy to find a Sharkport, then what is the point of EB/Gamestop in the first place? It's like going to Sherman Williams and finding out that they have no paint brushes and you have to go to Home Depot.

I guess it comes down to management. Some chain stores work very hard to make sure that people get the same service whether they go to a store in inner city Detroit or in the middle of west Texas.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Wed May 10, 2006 5:37 pm

My pet peeve about these stores is how they try and scare you into pre-ordering something that will be EVERYWHERE on release day and plenty of it, too.

Just yesterday I was in Gamestop and just made a comment about Madden 07 and the guy sailed on me like a vulture. "You got Madden pre-ordered yet?", he says. "Nah, I think I'm going to wait for more details to come out...if it's anything like the 360 version last year, I'm gonna pass", I said.

"Well, they fixed all that stuff, it's going to be great this year" I just looked at him. Then he says, "You better go ahead and pre-order it, man or you ain't going to get one anywhere" Well that was the line that did it for me. I wanted to keep my mouth shut because I didn't want to piss him off, but I just couldn't hold myself back. "Dude, when was the last time ANY MAJOR RELEASE came out and you guys didn't get a million copies?" He gives me a blank stare and says, "Well we're only getting 5 copies in addition to all our pre-orders, so I don't know if you're going to get one or not"

I gave him a little shiteating grin and said "I'll take my chances".

I cannot stand it when these idiots try and force a pre-order on me...especially when they try and use scare tactics. Think about how many people fall for this crap. That's the main reason I cannot stand to walk into my Gamestop.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:02 pm

TRI wrote:Stores like Gamestop that sell mostly video games could be in trouble because in the future the game publishers will probably allow people to buy games that they can simply download. This way the publishers and consumers save money. Heck, longer term it may be the only way to buy video games in the future.

You're 100% dead nuts accurate. EA have started plans as well as Microsoft to shift media distribution from retail outlets to online.

That's one reason why Xbox Market Place is so popular. And companies like EA and others are taking notice. Hell Sony back when the PS2 rolled out were talking online media distribution.

It's the future.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Wed May 10, 2006 7:17 pm

Also, I have an EB close to work that I sometimes walk down to on a break. The manager has a chip on his shoulder about the 360 and the rest of the staff follows suit. They all seem very impressed by the PS3 news and the guy working yesterday told me that while he has a 360, there isn’t the variety of games that make him want to play it. Considering what Sony showed yesterday, I am not sure I see where the PS3 is going to be any different. Maybe he loves racing games and shooters.

I am pretty sure I know the exact store and manager you are talking about, although my guess is this attitude is rampant in other stores. After the fiasco I had with them on my TOCA 3 for Xbox pre-order (which I paid for up front) I stopped going in there. Even a week after the game had been released they still claimed they hadn't gotten it in and blamed it on the whole Gamestop/EB merger.

A few months ago I had been looking at buying a wheel that they had there and I got three different quotes on the price of it.

Then there was the day a mother and her kids were in there shopping for some Xbox and DS stuff and after they leave the manager and one of the other employees proceed to bash them and make fun of them for their "poor" game and system selections right in front of me.