The Beautiful Game Thread 10/11

[Naples39]

I have enjoyed watching this debacle, but I'm keeping my expectations low on the potential fallout. Blatter certainly knows how to play the game--all the accusations towards him are "by association" types of charges.

The good thing about Warner going down, other than the fact that he is generally a disgrace, is that he is the type to firebomb and say "if I go down, I'm taking everyone with me."

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a real investigation into Qatar buying the 2022 WC, because an offhand email by a third party isn't much evidence and I wouldn't be surprised to see everyone clam up and deny deny deny.

It also would've been fun if Grant Wahl had been nominated. He still couldn't win, but his "I told you so" smirk would be epic.

[wco81]

Would Qatar be the only one to buy a WC?

You assume there was always some kind of "financial considerations" by host nations to FIFA. Same thing with the Olympics and the IOC.

And the Euro and UEFA.

Regardless of what their bylaws may claim, is the awarding of these spectacles on any basis but to the highest bidder?

Are there shareholders to whom the executive board is responsible? That's where the corporate governance comparison seems to break down.

Now, I don't understand why the governing bodies in the biggest soccer powers yielded so much power to some Swiss kleptocrats in the first place. If the European and North/South American nations decided to hold their own tournament, WC would become meaningless.

[RobVarak]

Now, I don't understand why the governing bodies in the biggest soccer powers yielded so much power to some Swiss kleptocrats in the first place. If the European and North/South American nations decided to hold their own tournament, WC would become meaningless.

It wasn't that they yielded the power. It was partially happenstance that the World Cup, an event initially equal parts ignored and derided, became a money printing machine due to the TV rights. They may have been shortsighted, but given the humble origins of the tournament and international football in general, not hard to understand why they acted the way they did.

And no breakaway from the WC is going to have any traction whatsoever, IMO.

[Naples39]

I'm having trouble keeping track of your point WCO, but it's one of those accidents of history how FIFA arose and there's no conceivable way to break their hold on things at the moment. All we can do is hope for some honesty and fairdealing by the people in power.

It's one thing for the WC to be about money and for FIFA to accept lucrative dealings as an organization, but for board members to be accepting bribes into their personal accounts isn't about fiduciary duty, it's outright corruption and that's a disgrace.

[wco81]

My point is, that's the way of the world. Is FIFA that much worse than any other organization which has access to that kind of money? I'm not endorsing their behavior, just pointing out it's not exceptional.

Goddell and whoever else awards Superbowls are probably doing well, though they may not benefit from such blatant bribery.

Or you can talk about Wall Street or any other big corporation these days. These are suppose to be public companies but a handful or two of individuals in these big organizations receive the lion's share of these companies' profits. And corporate boards are the quintessential old boys network, these days ratifying whatever a CEO does and getting paid well for little work.

I don't know if Qatar expects a return on their investment -- whatever they paid out in bribes and other monies to secure the bid -- or if they have money to burn and they couldn't think of anything else to do with the money. But the event will bring in a lot of money into their country so should it really be surprising that there's corruption?

Once in awhile, someone does a study of corruption around the world. Other than a few Scandinavian countries, every other industrialized country, supposedly democratic, transparent societies, had about the same level of corruption IIRC. Look at the kind of laws which are being passed in this country. One law making the way through the Senate would require blacklisting of all supposed copyright-infringing sites, for the benefit of the MPAA and other copyright owners:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... -floor.ars

So if a narrow interest group could get the US to behave like China (even if this law doesn't get passed, these and other groups have gotten the govt. to do a lot of their bidding already), why would it be surprising if deep-pocketed countries could buy FIFA board votes?

Everything is for sale, everywhere, including integrity, principles, transparency, etc.

[fsquid]

f*** FIFA , what a great playoff final that was today.

[Naples39]

I can begrudgingly accept FIFA's maximization of profits, and I don't have problems with high salaries of individuals.

Corporate boards may have high salaries that may feel wrong and positions awarded in an old boy network, but with allegations of corruption there are lawsuits everywhere. Obviously that is due to shareholders having direct legal interests as you mentioned, but no one simply accepts bribery and corruption enriching a select few as the cost of doing business.

I just don't buy, that because FIFA officials don't technically have a fiduciary duty to anyone, that rampant corruption by an entrenched few is the SOP and we should just get over it. They should be embarrassed and thrown out for systemic corruption.

[XXXIV]

I can begrudgingly accept FIFA's maximization of profits, and I don't have problems with high salaries of individuals.

Corporate boards may have high salaries that may feel wrong and positions awarded in an old boy network, but with allegations of corruption there are lawsuits everywhere. Obviously that is due to shareholders having direct legal interests as you mentioned, but no one simply accepts bribery and corruption enriching a select few as the cost of doing business.

I just don't buy, that because FIFA officials don't technically have a fiduciary duty to anyone, that rampant corruption by an entrenched few is the SOP and we should just get over it. They should be embarrassed and thrown out for systemic corruption.

Agree !

[miget33]

Paul Scholes has retired.

[wco81]

I saw on a CNN scroll at the gym that some big sponsors have expressed concerns.

That would be the way to change things, when the cash flow is in danger. If fans boycotted going to Qatar or watching those games on TV, that would be a way to try to change the culture in Zurich.

But lets face it, fans will watch and TV networks will pay big money for the spectacle. Every fan who decries the corruption are complicit in it if they continue to support FIFA events.

As for the personal enrichment, maybe they should give big salaries and bonuses given that these individuals make decisions which involve a lot of money. People are decrying huge Wall Street bonuses -- $135 billion last year going to a few thousand people -- but nobody is prosecuting them for reckless practices which caused the meltdown in 2008.

[Naples39]

As for the personal enrichment, maybe they should give big salaries and bonuses given that these individuals make decisions which involve a lot of money. People are decrying huge Wall Street bonuses -- $135 billion last year going to a few thousand people -- but nobody is prosecuting them for reckless practices which caused the meltdown in 2008.

I'm just not buying the wall street comparison. Even if you assume wall street execs were overpaid and incompetent, that's still a far cry from corruption.

For instance Jack Warner simply took WC tickets due to Caribbean nations and sold them via his personal company for 19 years! Imagine an executive/director stealing his company's products then operating a company to sell them on the side--it's unthinkable. They'd be sued into oblivion, voted out of their position and probably prosecuted.

I'm not saying arrest the FIFA morons, but how about some simple ethics?

And btw, Blatter made more than $1m last year, but he won't say how much.

[wco81]

If they were paid high enough, they would be less likely to sell tickets. Look at the OSU scandal. Players were selling memorabilia because they're not officially paid for their labors.

When they become pros, are they selling tickets?

Maybe these football bureaucrats don't think they're paid commensurate with the size of the business that they manage.

The Wall Street and corporate analogy is that they may not technically take the money but often they have cozy relationships with compensation boards, which is partly how their pay has outstripped the CEO to average worker ratios.

There ar a lot of sweetheart deals going on:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/markets/u ... nyse_x.htm

Maybe that's not technically corruption according to some legal definitions. But it's not exactly transparent either.

[Naples39]

And we're back to FIFA corruption is analogous to wall street overpayment and incompetence. Notice how in your own wall street example it led to changes and people leaving as well.

Generally if you think you're underpaid, you find another job. If you're not leaving or can't find a job that pays you more, it usually means you're not underpaid. You don't say, "I'm underpaid, so I'm going to steal to make up for it." I'm sure the FIFA execs are doing just fine.

I really can't see any defense to the actions of many individuals, and how the organization as a whole has let it slide for years.

[Naples39]

It promises to be a tense election day at FIFA HQ today....

[XXXIV]

[RobVarak]

Having grown up in Chicago, it took me about 45 seconds before I realized what was wrong with that ballot.

[Naples39]

I like how it says 1st ballot at the top, as if a second ballot might be necessary.

[fsquid]

Bayern sign Neuer for 25m Euros.

[wco81]

And we're back to FIFA corruption is analogous to wall street overpayment and incompetence. Notice how in your own wall street example it led to changes and people leaving as well.

Generally if you think you're underpaid, you find another job. If you're not leaving or can't find a job that pays you more, it usually means you're not underpaid. You don't say, "I'm underpaid, so I'm going to steal to make up for it." I'm sure the FIFA execs are doing just fine.

I really can't see any defense to the actions of many individuals, and how the organization as a whole has let it slide for years.

Where am I defending these practices? As I said before, this is the way the things work when a few individuals make decisions involving a lot of money. They will get paid one way or another.


Soccernet podcast had an interesting point. Most of the current outrage is coming from Anglo nations. Certain other Euro powers other than England/UK are not complaining, at least not loudly. Some might say it's sour grapes on the part of the UK and US for losing out on the WC bids, to gripe about these practices which have been going on forever.

They pointed out several of the biggest FIFA/WC sponsors are American? Kind of surprised to hear that. But that again raises the question why these rich parties yielded so much control to Zurich or why they don't try to break away. However, if the other European countries aren't interested, then US and UK won't get far.

I just recall how there were so many boxing governing bodies back in the day -- WBA, WBC,etc. -- and it seemed like there were competing ones to suit the boxers who were the biggest draws at the time. Certainly that's true of the US and UK, maybe Australia too.

[toonarmy]

Looks like Henry Kissinger has agreed to be an adviser to FIFA to help iron out its issues:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?secti ... id=8174959

I guess bringing in a war criminal and major player in one of the most corrupt regimes in American history is what FIFA thinks will help restore confidence in its cesspool of an organization. And in other news, Ron Jeremy is now spokesperson for the national abstinence campaign.

[fsquid]

no idea about the war crimes thing since I don't recall that, but Kissenger did serve on the board of directors for the old NASL.

[RobVarak]

(Yawn) Kissinger's status as a renegade war criminal stems from Christopher Hitchens' aggressive campaign to attribute to Kissinger every wrong ever perpetrated by a US ally. As appealing as this is for the "anti-imperialists" of the world (as well as other denizens of the idealogical wilderness like filmmakers, t-shirt manufacturers and the French judiciary), it's a case that has more gaping holes in it than a Kardashian family reunion.

That doesn't make this FIFA suggestion any less ludicrous, however. He's got a decades-long association with these stooges that will transcend any lip-service of transparency and democracy.

[XXXIV]

(Yawn) Kissinger's status as a renegade war criminal stems from Christopher Hitchens' aggressive campaign to attribute to Kissinger every wrong ever perpetrated by a US ally. As appealing as this is for the "anti-imperialists" of the world (as well as other denizens of the idealogical wilderness like filmmakers, t-shirt manufacturers and the French judiciary), it's a case that has more gaping holes in it than a Kardashian family reunion.

War criminal? WOW. First Ive heard of this.

The loons and political douchebags are getting crazier by the day.

[wco81]

Doesn't Kissinger avoid traveling out of the country because he might be hauled before an international court?

Even if Kissinger wasn't a controversial figure, what is he going to bring now, some 40 years after he had any kind of substantial clout?

[XXXIV]

Like clockwork.