XBox One AND PS4 Discussion

[webdanzer]

Man, I loved Intellivision. That Horse Racing video game may still be the best one of the genre ever released.

*whip* Go White!! *whip* *whip* *whip*



I was ready for an increase this upcoming generation, and really wouldn't have complained. It feels like time. It's tough in this market, though, with the competition from mobile devices coming in at such a low price point.

[RobVarak]

Some thoughtful remarks from Tycho at PA this morning.

Ultimately, Microsoft felt like they had to walk almost all of it back. Presumably this is a win for the consumer, but I suspect that the vast majority of consumers had already made their decision. We win when we have reasonable options, and as I said the day afterward they had given us one. It’s absolutely a win for Gamestop, who stands to be the prime beneficiary of this proxy war. You can look around to see how much goodwill the pirouette has bought Microsoft; the quick answer is that it hasn’t. The long answer is that all that has changed is the list of demands. The 360 changed a lot over the course of its life - the “party,” which is the core of my usage of the service, wasn’t introduced until years into its life. I think we’ll see some of these ideas crop up again in the future, when a few years have passed, when they don’t have to explain like seven really complicated things all at once, almost all of them poorly.

I think it really remained to be seen how the Xbox One would have fared. I don’t intend to purchase physical software ever again if I can help it, so the crossbeams of the largest argument weren’t really applicable to me. I liked the idea of a sharing and trading regime for digital licenses, someone had to explore this, and I was absolutely willing to bet with a billion dollars of someone else’s money.

[webdanzer]

More from Jim Sterling:

http://www.destructoid.com/an-industry- ... 6643.phtml

Bleszinski is joined by Gizmodo in his portents of despair and misery. Claiming that "we" all made the Xbox One worse as a result of our complaints, writer Kyle Wagner used no evidence to claim Microsoft's DRM would definitely have been great for everybody, and would lead to a world of cheaper games. Because the game industry has demonstrated many times that, when it has a monopoly, consumers benefit. Except, y'know, not.

Above all, this glittering ideal of digital distribution as a cure-all magic potion for the industry's problems is the product of remedial fantasy. A digital market won't free publishers from their obligations to clueless investors who demand all of the money at all times. It won't stop companies focus testing the s*** out of their games as more and more products appeal to audiences spread thin by such saturation. It won't stop ludicrously excessive development and marketing budgets. I'm a big believer in digital distribution, but I don't believe in sorcery, and as such I don't think digital's going to solve everything rotten in the game industry. The big budget market is too far gone for that.

The PC proved it was ready for digital distribution, but it took years to do so. You can't just get up and start running when you're not even crawling properly, and in the years since Steam and GOG rose to become justifiable alternatives to physical media, home consoles languished with slow interfaces, clunky storefronts, and expensive games without any of the benefits we've come to expect from PC games. No mods. No quick option for patching content. No user fixes. None of that. Consoles need to work to earn their digital future. They can't just wake up one day and have it presented to them on a velvet pillow.

What is it people like Cliff Bleszinski always say to gamers? Oh right, it's a business!
Yeah, it's a business alright. You know what businesses are very good at doing? Failing. And if companies fail because they needed a console that inconvenienced consumers and imposed restrictions on other markets, well ... that's business for you.

[Spooky]

I think that it should be known (not that anyone really cares) that I am not trying to defend MS or the XBone. I just wasn't bothered by their direction. Of course there is a part of me that wants the XBone to be the better console because I don't trust Sony's ability to do the things right that are most important to me. I only bought a PS3 game when it was an A+ exclusive title. I have zero allegiance to any company and to be honest, I would have loved for the PS3 to have been my only console. I think the interface is better than Xbox, the hardware is better and it's my main BluRay player. But time and time again they screwed up things that were constantly being done better on XBox.

I see a lot of people on here (who's opinions I trust) going with the PS4. An honest question to those people: Can you bullut point out the reasons why you think the PS4 will be the better console this next round (besides the DRM stuff)? I have not found anything truly substantial about their plans for online and portability, etc. Are we sure that PS4 games will not continue to be crappy ports of XBone games?

I have both consoles on pre-order from Amazon so I am able to pull the trigger on whichever...

[Teal]

Some thoughtful remarks from Tycho at PA this morning.

Ultimately, Microsoft felt like they had to walk almost all of it back. Presumably this is a win for the consumer, but I suspect that the vast majority of consumers had already made their decision. We win when we have reasonable options, and as I said the day afterward they had given us one. It’s absolutely a win for Gamestop, who stands to be the prime beneficiary of this proxy war. You can look around to see how much goodwill the pirouette has bought Microsoft; the quick answer is that it hasn’t. The long answer is that all that has changed is the list of demands. The 360 changed a lot over the course of its life - the “party,” which is the core of my usage of the service, wasn’t introduced until years into its life. I think we’ll see some of these ideas crop up again in the future, when a few years have passed, when they don’t have to explain like seven really complicated things all at once, almost all of them poorly.

I think it really remained to be seen how the Xbox One would have fared. I don’t intend to purchase physical software ever again if I can help it, so the crossbeams of the largest argument weren’t really applicable to me. I liked the idea of a sharing and trading regime for digital licenses, someone had to explore this, and I was absolutely willing to bet with a billion dollars of someone else’s money.

"You can look around to see how much goodwill the pirouette has bought Microsoft; the quick answer is that it hasn’t. The long answer is that all that has changed is the list of demands."

This is dead nuts accurate, and what makes all of it so infuriating.

[webdanzer]

"You can look around to see how much goodwill the pirouette has bought Microsoft; the quick answer is that it hasn’t. The long answer is that all that has changed is the list of demands."

This is dead nuts accurate, and what makes all of it so infuriating.

Preorders have apparently surged since the turn-around.

Do you think Microsoft wants sales or 'goodwill?'

[Macca00]

"You can look around to see how much goodwill the pirouette has bought Microsoft; the quick answer is that it hasn’t. The long answer is that all that has changed is the list of demands."

This is dead nuts accurate, and what makes all of it so infuriating.

True, but while they don't have any greater goodwill they are now leading the PS4 in pre-orders since their 180 which is probably the main reason they did this, not because they wanted to make 'a vocal minority' happy.

EDIT: Web beat me to it.

[webdanzer]

I see a lot of people on here (who's opinions I trust) going with the PS4. An honest question to those people: Can you bullut point out the reasons why you think the PS4 will be the better console this next round (besides the DRM stuff)? I have not found anything truly substantial about their plans for online and portability, etc. Are we sure that PS4 games will not continue to be crappy ports of XBone games?

I have both consoles on pre-order from Amazon so I am able to pull the trigger on whichever...

Here's what I said to Danimal earlier:

->More powerful system, for

->$100 less, with

->More exclusives that I am interested in. (Though not overwhelmingly so on this last point)

Pretty much common sense stuff for one looking for something to play games on.

I also don't like the forced Kinect. Yes, I don't see why I should have to plop a camera and mic in my living room because MS says so, but mainly I just don't like the alternate controls. To me, pressing a button is simply more convenient than waving arms or speaking in most situations. I guess many of you have had better Kinect experiences than I did, but at best, I'd say the first version of it is 'moderately to frequently' responsive. I want more than that for my gaming interface. I also am at the room limit size for most games, and usually operate in a background of lots of noise, or none at all, the latter times also requiring me to stay silent as well.

It's just not for me, environment or playstyle wise.

Of course, that is just me. If it is true that MS is not including a headset and will instead rely on the Kinect for online chat, that could hurt their experience and add even more to the expense, should one purchase one if the Kinect ends up not being suitable.

As has been mentioned in this thread, for this generation the architecture of the machines is far more similar this generation than last, requiring less customization for each system. It is probable that games coded the same way will perform better on the PS4 due to its horsepower, without substantial work needed by the developers.

You have to make the assumption, I think, that XBox One will still outperform Sony in many of the online interfaces and capabilities. Personally, I'm not as much of an online gamer as many here, but it would take a LOT of catch up for Sony to equal MS here, IMO.

Like many here, I also like the Xbox controller better, though I don't hate the dual shock, except for racing titles. Hopefully Sony's new design (which moves towards the MS style) alleviates some of that, but that remains to be seen.

[Spooky]

I see a lot of people on here (who's opinions I trust) going with the PS4. An honest question to those people: Can you bullut point out the reasons why you think the PS4 will be the better console this next round (besides the DRM stuff)? I have not found anything truly substantial about their plans for online and portability, etc. Are we sure that PS4 games will not continue to be crappy ports of XBone games?

I have both consoles on pre-order from Amazon so I am able to pull the trigger on whichever...

Here's what I said to Danimal earlier:

->More powerful system, for

->$100 less, with

->More exclusives that I am interested in. (Though not overwhelmingly so on this last point)

Pretty much common sense stuff for one looking for something to play games on.

I also don't like the forced Kinect. Yes, I don't see why I should have to plop a camera and mic in my living room because MS says so, but mainly I just don't like the alternate controls. To me, pressing a button is simply more convenient than waving arms or speaking in most situations. I guess many of you have had better Kinect experiences than I did, but at best, I'd say the first version of it is 'moderately to frequently' responsive. I want more than that for my gaming interface. I also am at the room limit size for most games, and usually operate in a background of lots of noise, or none at all, the latter times also requiring me to stay silent as well.

It's just not for me, environment or playstyle wise.

Of course, that is just me. If it is true that MS is not including a headset and will instead rely on the Kinect for online chat, that could hurt their experience and add even more to the expense, should one purchase one if the Kinect ends up not being suitable.

As has been mentioned in this thread, for this generation the architecture of the machines is far more similar this generation than last, requiring less customization for each system. It is probable that games coded the same way will perform better on the PS4 due to its horsepower, without substantial work needed by the developers.

You have to make the assumption, I think, that XBox One will still outperform Sony in many of the online interfaces and capabilities. Personally, I'm not as much of an online gamer as many here, but it would take a LOT of catch up for Sony to equal MS here, IMO.

Like many here, I also like the Xbox controller better, though I don't hate the dual shock, except for racing titles. Hopefully Sony's new design (which moves towards the MS style) alleviates some of that, but that remains to be seen.

Thanks Web.

[Danimal]

I think it's a fairly large assumption to make at this point that the PS4 will be the lead console for programmers because it is slightly more powerful.

I also see for the 2nd time the headset not being included was brought up. Did I get shafted neither of my PS3's came with a headset. Now if you're saying I can't use a headset, I need to use Kinect for communication that is a different story but not including one is now some sort of problem? sigh

IMO people are making a lot of assumptions without information. We have 4-5 months to get a lot of the details missing. In fact what is lost in all of this outrage of the MS DRM is that the PS4 has been very vague on many of their finer details.

[Brando70]

I think that it should be known (not that anyone really cares) that I am not trying to defend MS or the XBone. I just wasn't bothered by their direction. Of course there is a part of me that wants the XBone to be the better console because I don't trust Sony's ability to do the things right that are most important to me. I only bought a PS3 game when it was an A+ exclusive title. I have zero allegiance to any company and to be honest, I would have loved for the PS3 to have been my only console. I think the interface is better than Xbox, the hardware is better and it's my main BluRay player. But time and time again they screwed up things that were constantly being done better on XBox.

I see a lot of people on here (who's opinions I trust) going with the PS4. An honest question to those people: Can you bullut point out the reasons why you think the PS4 will be the better console this next round (besides the DRM stuff)? I have not found anything truly substantial about their plans for online and portability, etc. Are we sure that PS4 games will not continue to be crappy ports of XBone games?

I have both consoles on pre-order from Amazon so I am able to pull the trigger on whichever...

I haven't pre-ordered anything, but given how similar the systems are in terms of specs, I think the question is why choose an XBone over the PS4? Not to be all pro-Sony, but why pay the extra $100 when there is probably going to be a lot of library overlap between the two?

I am with you, Spooky, in your evaluation of the PS3. I like the console better than the 360. It's quieter, had a lot more customization options for audio and video, and my two favorite exclusives, The Show and the Uncharted series. Sony was also fantastic with updating the capabilities of the machine at no additional cost. However, XBL, the controller, and the fact that so many DSPers made the jump to the 360 is what really got me to go 360 mostly. The big flock of DSPers to the 360 was also due in part to the 360 being out first and that many of us loved XBL on the XBox.

Now we have two new machines coming out at around the same time, with similar specs, only one is more expensive because it has a built-in Kinect. To me, the Kinect is the real wildcard. If developers embrace it, I could see it really making a big difference in how we play games.

At the same time, look at how few A-list exclusives each console had this past generation. The vast majority of games were released for both. The 360 had an edge in quality because of the ease of development, but that may not necessarily be the case this time. Are third-party developers going to optimze for Kinect and then port to PS4, possibly sacrificing some gameplay features/quality? Or will they aim for the middle ground and continue to make the Kinect a non-essential part of the gameplay? All of us have been avid gamers long enough to see which of those outcomes is more likely, so I think the onus will be on MS exclusives to incorporate the Kinect in such a way that the XBone is clearly the better, more innovative choice.

I am completely console neutral myself. I've owned both Sony and MS consoles the past two generations. I may own two again, but cost is going to prohibit me from starting out with two of them.

[Teal]

I think it's a fairly large assumption to make at this point that the PS4 will be the lead console for programmers because it is slightly more powerful.

I also see for the 2nd time the headset not being included was brought up. Did I get shafted neither of my PS3's came with a headset. Now if you're saying I can't use a headset, I need to use Kinect for communication that is a different story but not including one is now some sort of problem? sigh

IMO people are making a lot of assumptions without information. We have 4-5 months to get a lot of the details missing. In fact what is lost in all of this outrage of the MS DRM is that the PS4 has been very vague on many of their finer details.

Yeah, they're sitting in the corner, giggling, proud that the jabs were enough not to have to go into the finer details of anything at this point. "OOH, BURN!" is apparently satisfactory...

[webdanzer]

I also see for the 2nd time the headset not being included was brought up. Did I get shafted neither of my PS3's came with a headset. Now if you're saying I can't use a headset, I need to use Kinect for communication that is a different story but not including one is now some sort of problem? sigh

Dan, yes, if you have to buy a headset that is 'worse' than if one is included in the box. 360 was better than PS3 in that regard, yes.

I didn't say it was a 'problem', it's just better to have one for free than not, no? Hopefully initial info changes and Xbox includes one.

[Brando70]

I also see for the 2nd time the headset not being included was brought up. Did I get shafted neither of my PS3's came with a headset. Now if you're saying I can't use a headset, I need to use Kinect for communication that is a different story but not including one is now some sort of problem? sigh

Dan, yes, if you have to buy a headset that is 'worse' than if one is included in the box. 360 was better than PS3 in that regard, yes.

I didn't say it was a 'problem', it's just better to have one for free than not, no? Hopefully initial info changes and Xbox includes one.

The issue isn't headset included so much as if you won't be able to use a headset with Kinect. Again, an easy yes/no question that has gone unanswered.

I am also curious if current gen headphones will work with either of the new systems.

[Danimal]

I also see for the 2nd time the headset not being included was brought up. Did I get shafted neither of my PS3's came with a headset. Now if you're saying I can't use a headset, I need to use Kinect for communication that is a different story but not including one is now some sort of problem? sigh

Dan, yes, if you have to buy a headset that is 'worse' than if one is included in the box. 360 was better than PS3 in that regard, yes.

I didn't say it was a 'problem', it's just better to have one for free than not, no? Hopefully initial info changes and Xbox includes one.

I see no where in my PS4 pre-order about the inclusion of a head set. Are they including one?

[webdanzer]

I see no where in my PS4 pre-order about the inclusion of a head set. Are they including one?

Yes, according to revealed specs:

http://kotaku.com/the-ps4-has-a-500gb-h ... -512521805

[webdanzer]

I am also curious if current gen headphones will work with either of the new systems.

Not for the One:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/ ... g-headsets

As we learned during our hands-on session, the new controller will come equipped with a new, proprietary data port that replaces the chat cable connector found on the current generation, which a trusted source tell us will make the system incompatible with existing gaming headsets

Unknown for PS4 at this time.

[Brando70]

I am also curious if current gen headphones will work with either of the new systems.

Not for the One:

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/05/22/ ... g-headsets

As we learned during our hands-on session, the new controller will come equipped with a new, proprietary data port that replaces the chat cable connector found on the current generation, which a trusted source tell us will make the system incompatible with existing gaming headsets

Unknown for PS4 at this time.

Interesting that audio should still work through the optical port, but the mic will not. If the Kinect can be used for chat and audio still streams out, perhaps existing headphones could work if you used the Kinect mic.

[wco81]

Actually, singleplayer games used to last longer in older generations.

I think the problem with current and next generation is that it's costly to make these games and one of the biggest costs is the creation of high-resolution, high-quality art. So the games seem to get shorter as a result.

Or they just hold some content back to sell you as a separate DLC.

[Danimal]

I see no where in my PS4 pre-order about the inclusion of a head set. Are they including one?

Yes, according to revealed specs:

http://kotaku.com/the-ps4-has-a-500gb-h ... -512521805

That's interesting since its not listed in my day one pre-order.

So my PS3 had backward comparability, my PS4 doesn't. Should I post about it 5 times to turn the knife?

[Brando70]

Actually, singleplayer games used to last longer in older generations.

I think the problem with current and next generation is that it's costly to make these games and one of the biggest costs is the creation of high-resolution, high-quality art. So the games seem to get shorter as a result.

Or they just hold some content back to sell you as a separate DLC.

But it can be done. Skyrim is the most obvious example. Mass Effect and RDR are two other good examples. Also, longer does not always equal better (with gamers or with women). The Uncharted games were not terribly long, but the experience was worth the price of admission. I think what it comes down to is the question of whether you got the appropriate entertainment value for your money. The duration of the game can play a role in that, but a really well done short game can also seem like a good value, too.

[Inuyasha]

There you go, preorders for XB1 now beating preorders for PS4 whereas last week PS4 had a 3 to 2 advantage over XB1.

Although PS4 may have better technical specs, I think with this change the XB1 will now come out on top. XB and XBL have such a dedicated following now, the people who were pissed off at MS for the restrictions and thinking of going sony, are now back in the MS fold.

We'll never know if the DRM system would have worked or not, and MS may bring some sort of it back later, but for now, the reversal has put them back to the advantage for next gen.

[Teal]

Actually, singleplayer games used to last longer in older generations.

I think the problem with current and next generation is that it's costly to make these games and one of the biggest costs is the creation of high-resolution, high-quality art. So the games seem to get shorter as a result.

Or they just hold some content back to sell you as a separate DLC.

But it can be done. Skyrim is the most obvious example. Mass Effect and RDR are two other good examples. Also, longer does not always equal better (with gamers or with women). The Uncharted games were not terribly long, but the experience was worth the price of admission. I think what it comes down to is the question of whether you got the appropriate entertainment value for your money. The duration of the game can play a role in that, but a really well done short game can also seem like a good value, too.

A movie averages 2 hours in length. There are great 2 hour movies, and terrible two hour movies. Some people like those movies enough to buy the Blu-Ray or DVD, and keep them for years. Hmmm.

[webdanzer]

So my PS3 had backward comparability, my PS4 doesn't. Should I post about it 5 times to turn the knife?

I'm not sure what you are going on about. If it's me mentioning the headset multiple times, I asked once to see if anyone else heard additional info about it being included in Xbone, and again when answering Spooky's question about what features I liked about the PS4.

I'm not like OMGNOHEADSETWTFBBQ??!!?! but at the moment it is included in a list of differences...

[Spooky]

I'm not like OMGNOHEADSETWTFBBQ??!!?! but at the moment it is included in a list of differences...

You forgot a hashtag.