OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

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Brando70
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Post by Brando70 »

Pretty interesting on Biden's VP bump compared to other recent races:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109783/Biden ... -Much.aspx

It also seems that the VP choices doesn't really impact the candidate's approval that much:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109381/candi ... ng-VP.aspx

Rob, I think you have a good point about the VP choice pointing out weaknesses in the candidate. However, from a working perspective, in an era where the VP does actually have influence over White House policy, I can see why either candidate would pick people that would shore up areas where they are week. I think someone like Biden or Bill Richardson makes sense for Obama, because he is going to need experienced people for guidance.

I will be surprised if McCain picks Romney. Romney threw a ton of money into this election and got nowhere. That says a lot about his appeal, even if you can land an airplane on his shoulders :D Frankly, I think none of the other GOP candidates would be worth picking -- McCain won the nomination as much for the lack of appeal among the other choices as he did for his appeal to voters.
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Post by SPTO »

Just a couple things:

I felt really good for Biden last night. I know I know why should anyone genuinely feel happy for a politician? It's just that Biden made it all this way basically from very nondescript beginnings and now he's on the verge of becoming the Vice-President of the United States. Biden's bearing and manner of speaking has always appealed to me. There's a slight grittiness to him when he's really hitting on all cylinders especially in a debate format.

As to who McCain should pick? It shouldn't be Romney or Lieberman as Biden would kill them in a debate setting. I mean if Old Man McCain can make Romney look bad at times then Biden will make mince meat out of the guy. Lieberman's background and the fact that only 8 years ago he was on the Democratic ticket will hurt him immensely. As much as Giuliani doesn't fit some of the GOP moral coda I think he'd be a good choice. He's a strong debater and could add some focus to what is at times a pretty rudderless campaign by McCain. I mean it's hard to win elections when the main thrust of your argument is "look that guy is too popular for his own good!".

Last but not least I was debating with some of my father's friends and they're of the mind that Obama's going to be assassinated at some point in the race. My father and I keep telling them they're in a different world but they keep insisting on it. What do you guys think?
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Post by RobVarak »

Brando70 wrote:
I will be surprised if McCain picks Romney. Romney threw a ton of money into this election and got nowhere. That says a lot about his appeal, even if you can land an airplane on his shoulders :D Frankly, I think none of the other GOP candidates would be worth picking -- McCain won the nomination as much for the lack of appeal among the other choices as he did for his appeal to voters.
Sir, are you suggesting that Tom Tancredo did not ignite the public's imagination? :)

On an unrelated note, the Bill Ayers papers kerfuffle is starting to snowball. I think the Obama campaign screwed this up a bit. All they had to do was send someone, anyone to sit across from Kurtz to refute his allegations. Instead they look like, dare I say, Republicans...trying to disrupt a legitimate public forum and generally behaving like a mob of goons.
DENVER -- Sen. Barack Obama's campaign organized its supporters Wednesday night to confront Tribune-owned WGN-AM in Chicago for having a critic of the Illinois Democrat on its air.

"WGN radio is giving right-wing hatchet man Stanley Kurtz a forum to air his baseless, fear-mongering terrorist smears," Obama's campaign wrote in an e-mail to supporters. "He's currently scheduled to spend a solid two-hour block from 9:00 to 11:00 p.m. pushing lies, distortions, and manipulations about Barack and University of Illinois professor William Ayers."

Kurtz, a conservative writer, recently wrote an article for the National Review that looked at Obama's ties to Ayers, a former 1960s radical who later emerged as a school reform advocate in Chicago.

The magazine had been blocked in its initial attempts to obtain records from the University of Illinois at Chicago regarding a school reform initiative called the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which Obama chaired and Ayers co-founded.

Obama critics were quick to suggest that political clout could be involved in seeking to protect Obama from embarrassment. The school later reserved its position and made the records available Tuesday.

On Wednesday evening, Obama's campaign urged supporters to call the radio station to complain.

"Tell WGN that by providing Kurtz with airtime, they are legitimizing baseless attacks from a smear-merchant and lowering the standards of political discourse," the note said.

"It is absolutely unacceptable that WGN would give a slimy character assassin like Kurtz time for his divisive, destructive ranting on our public airwaves," the note continued. "At the very least, they should offer sane, honest rebuttal to every one of Kurtz's lies."

Zack Christenson, executive producer of "Extension 720 with Milt Rosenburg," said the response was strong.

"I would say this is the biggest response we've ever got from a campaign or a candidate," he said. "This is really unprecedented with the show, the way that people are flooding the calls and our email boxes."

Christenson said the Obama campaign was asked to have someone appear on the show and declined the request.

"He got into the files just yesterday, so we wanted to have him on to find out what he found. And, if at all possible, we wanted to get the Obama campaign, to get their side of the story," Christenson said. "That's why the uproar is kind of amazing, because we wanted the Obama campaign's take as well."

The show's producer said the calls dropped off after the show's first hour. He did not have a count of calls, but said it was "non-stop."

Obama's campaign has launched similar offensives against stations that have run campaign ads that it did not like.

This is particularly misplaced because Kurtz's issue from Day 1 has been access to the library's records. He hasn't levelled a single allegation at Obama, yet he's being painted as a "hatchet-man" smearing BO's good name (as though associating with Ayers to begin with isn't a self-inflicted wound).

The Obama campaign may have an unprecedented level of organization and ability to disseminate information like no previous campaign, but they might want to consider using it for something other than agitating The Believers into behavior like this.

And a little humor about Biden's mom:
Any way that we can put her on the ticket? At least she knows that
when you meet a bully, you bloody his nose, instead of entering into
multilateral negotiations with fellow neighborhood kids.
:)
Last edited by RobVarak on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by matthewk »

RobVarak wrote:...smearing BO's good name (as though associateing with Ayers to begin with isn't a self-inflicted wound).
This gave me an idea for a GOP slogan. BO: Something stinks :)
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Post by Brando70 »

I agree that Kurtz should have access to the papers, but I've also read his work and I know he's not objectively seeking the truth. They are looking for Swiftboat material. The problem is, I think Obama knew Ayers and tried to distance himself from him because he knew what would happen. Now, of course, that's going to come out. Hard to know what the fallout could be without knowing the extent of their relationship. If they just served on the board and had a cordial but acquaintance relationship, I don't think it will be much. If there is more there, it could be trouble. Although I think the Rev. Wright association was a bigger obstacle.
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Post by RobVarak »

Brando70 wrote: Hard to know what the fallout could be without knowing the extent of their relationship. If they just served on the board and had a cordial but acquaintance relationship, I don't think it will be much. If there is more there, it could be trouble. Although I think the Rev. Wright association was a bigger obstacle.
Given the circumstantial, but extensive, evidence, I think it's unlikely that they had only a "cordial but acquaintance" relationship. It's Chicago, and Ayers is very much in bed with Daley and Emil Jones. Jones is Obama's poltical patron. The really, really big mistake was Obama's throwaway line about Ayers just "being a guy in my neighborhood."

I think this, like Wright, is partially an outgrowth of the fact that Obama really truly never expected to win the nomination. I think he expected to put up a good fight against Clinton, make the right fundraising contacts and build up his political capital. He would have had ample time to gloss over and spin awkward background items like Wright and Ayers. He's a victim of his own success...as he is with his comment about needing to acccumulate Senate experience before he runs a national campaign.
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Post by RobVarak »

When was the last time a Presidential election saw an ad like this? Interesting. To run tonight after Obama's speech.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/A4KIvRTg6KQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>
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Post by Jackdog »

RobVarak wrote:When was the last time a Presidential election saw an ad like this? Interesting. To run tonight after Obama's speech.

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/A4KIvRTg6KQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>
I don't ever remember anything like that in a Presidential election.

Not a bad idea. That ad tonight and I think he'll drop his pick for VP on Friday. He is trying to ease the bump. Pretty cool though.
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Post by pk500 »

Even though it's PR, the ad shows a level of decency that you don't see anymore in American presidential politics. It also sets up Obama for looking smug if his campaign doesn't respond with a similar ad next week.

That ad is a job well done, too.

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Post by Brando70 »

It would have been better if he had said, "Again, congratulations, and get ready to suck it."

It is a nice touch. I suspect things are about to get more negative, so this is a nice gulp of air before we crawl through the tunnel and out of Shawshank.
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Post by SPTO »

Nice ad and very classy too. The ad is just the lull before the storm as i have a feeling this will be a particularly nasty contest.

McCain sure did seem humble and genuine in his words there.
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Post by XXXIV »

Brando70 wrote:It would have been better if he had said, "Again, congratulations, and get ready to suck it."
I dont think better...but more honest.
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Post by Inuyasha »

Usually the other candidate sits quietly while the other one is having his convention. McCain is breaking the mold by campaigning. I wonder if Obama will do the same when it's the RNC.
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Post by FatPitcher »

Inuyasha wrote:Usually the other candidate sits quietly while the other one is having his convention. McCain is breaking the mold by campaigning. I wonder if Obama will do the same when it's the RNC.
Where has McCain been campaigning?
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Post by Inuyasha »

Jay Leno, Veterans of Foreign War, etc..
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Post by Inuyasha »

The column backbround looks pretty good, better than the picture when they were constructing it.
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Post by Brando70 »

Inuyasha wrote:The column backbround looks pretty good, better than the picture when they were constructing it.
Yeah, it doesn't look anything like what the initial pictures made it out to be. Pretty standard columns.
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Post by RobVarak »

Brando70 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:The column backbround looks pretty good, better than the picture when they were constructing it.
Yeah, it doesn't look anything like what the initial pictures made it out to be. Pretty standard columns.
Agreed. Brittany Spears' set designer obviously knows what he's doing. :)
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Post by Teal »

RobVarak wrote:
Brando70 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:The column backbround looks pretty good, better than the picture when they were constructing it.
Yeah, it doesn't look anything like what the initial pictures made it out to be. Pretty standard columns.
Agreed. Brittany Spears' set designer obviously knows what he's doing. :)
Brittney Spears...oh, that's rich... :lol:
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Post by RobVarak »

Teal wrote:
RobVarak wrote:
Brando70 wrote: Yeah, it doesn't look anything like what the initial pictures made it out to be. Pretty standard columns.
Agreed. Brittany Spears' set designer obviously knows what he's doing. :)
Brittney Spears...oh, that's rich... :lol:
I wasn't name-calling LOL He actually used Spears' set designer :)
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Post by Inuyasha »

wow, what a speech. And what a venue, that place was packed. This is the only speech I've seen this convention and McCain's will be the only one I'll watch in the next convention. First full speech I've seen obama give and it was excellent. He really went after Bush/McCain but also gave some substance to his change by pointing out what he wants to change and how. Thought it was good for him to get back swinging, since last few weeks he's been holding back and reminding people of J Kerry. Nice speech.

McCain is picking Romney or the Minn Gov. tomorrow so we'll see how his speech will turn out.

Also, that whole stage was like Bush's in 2004 except for the Presidential seal.

added : wow, fox news liked the speech. Cool.
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Post by RobVarak »

I give the speech about a B+. It was too long by half, and even with his skill he started to lose a little steam with the crowd at the 30-45 minutes mark. The start was brilliant and he came out like the challenger in a title bout, but somewhere around minute 20 it turned into a mid-term Clinton State of the Union.

He regained the mojo at the end, with the historical allusions and flying rhetoric that everyone really came to see. His overall tone was tough enough that it will help reassure some people that he has the balls to do the job...if not the requisite experience or skill.

As a non-believer, the most striking quote was this:
If you don't have a record to run on, you paint your opponent as someone to run from.
Misplaced preposition aside, that's a rich sentiment from someone with absolutely no record who's spent the last 30 minutes painting a gross caricature of a Bush-McCain Boogey Man. That line should have been excised.

I should bump him up to an A for the Never Walk Alone language :)
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Post by sportdan30 »

Inuyasha wrote:wow, what a speech. And what a venue, that place was packed. This is the only speech I've seen this convention and McCain's will be the only one I'll watch in the next convention. First full speech I've seen obama give and it was excellent. He really went after Bush/McCain but also gave some substance to his change by pointing out what he wants to change and how. Thought it was good for him to get back swinging, since last few weeks he's been holding back and reminding people of J Kerry. Nice speech.

McCain is picking Romney or the Minn Gov. tomorrow so we'll see how his speech will turn out.

Also, that whole stage was like Bush's in 2004 except for the Presidential seal.

added : damn, even fox news liked the speech.
Agree about the speech. It was nothing short of extraordinary. I look forward to hearing McCain next week.
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Post by sportdan30 »

SPTO wrote:Nice ad and very classy too. The ad is just the lull before the storm as i have a feeling this will be a particularly nasty contest.

McCain sure did seem humble and genuine in his words there.
Would have been a nice ad if it aired tomorrow....... After he actually listened to the whole speech. That ad didn't fool me one bit. But I suppose it was a nice gesture.
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Post by Brando70 »

I agree with Rob that the speech was a little long and strayed a bit too much into State of the Union territory. But, rock star that he is, he sandwiched the stuff from the new album in between the greatest hits that opened and closed the show. He was energetic, forceful, and made a nice counterattack to the gains McCain has been making.

McCain's overall historical record is certainly not in step with the Bush administration, but in his candidacy, he had aligned himself with many of the same policies of the current administration (energy, taxation, Iraq, health care, Social Security). It might not be fair and accurate for Obama to pin McCain as a third Bush term, but it's a good soft spot for Obama to punch.
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