Racing Sim Thread, Part II

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DChaps
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Post by DChaps »

Happy 10 year Anniversary Grand Prix Legends!!!!

As best as I can tell, today Oct. 9, 2008, marks the 10 year anniversary date for the greatest racing sim of all time, Grand Prix Legends.

Both IGN and Gamerankings say it was released Sept. 27, 2008. The Grand Prix Legends Wiki does not seem to have a definitive date. I went looking for my actual receipt as it was in my GPL box for many years, but I could not find it. However, it seems to be Oct. 9, 2008 as it is reported in the old 1998 Archives of EagleWoman Alison Hine's GPL site.
10/9/98 - I have received word from readers that GPL has been released in Australia and Germany. I believe it is available throughout much of Europe at this time. Inside information indicates presales of 75,000 copies in the US, and 225,000 copies in Europe!
This whole page (link below) is a pretty cool journal of the early days of GPL. Read from the bottom up.

http://eaglewoman.rscsites.org/gpl/news-archive-98.htm

I recently got Grand Prix Legends back up and running and discovered a couple new updates that I did not realize had been released.

1) Rouen Historical 2.0 - very nice update to Rouen

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=322698

2) Zandvoort Multi Season Graphics Update (1965-1969)

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=320952

To celebrate GPL's 10 year anniversary, my goal is to try one last time to get to a negative rank on the 11 original GPL tracks before the end of the year. GPL is the only game that I have played every year for the last 10 years, and yet I still suck at it and currently sit at a pretty pathetic +144.556. Actually, I would be happy if I could just get under +50. I have a long way to go at The Ring, Spa, and Rouen. Everywhere else I am under 5 sec. and have one barely negative rank at Monza.
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Post by pk500 »

Don:

I don't care what you say: You still are sim racing buddha here at DSP. Only you would point out that today is the 10th anniversary of GPL, and it is truly a momentous day in the sim racing community!

I still have GPL, and every couple of months I tempt myself to reinstall it and give it another go. The game is the ultimate sim racing paradox -- attractive as hell because it's so challenging, frustrating as hell because it's so challenging.

Richard Burns Rally is much the same way. In fact, many people call RBR the "GPL of rally games."

One of these days, I'm going to reinstall GPL and give it a really, really fair go. It always will hold a spot on my auxiliary hard drive and in my heart, as it was my first PC sim when I came late to this wonderful hobby about two years ago, thanks to everyone's help here at DSP.

Take care,
PK
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Post by GB_Simo »

Don, I don't know what setups you've got or what car you're running at present but the times that got me my negative GPLRank were set using some Lotus setups that Piggy kindly sent me. I believe they're the Big Al setups, they were good enough for me to go negative with my old FFB-less Driving Force and I'm sure I've still got them if they're any use.

Edited to add: another point to remember is that you don't need to go negative at every track to have a negative GPLRank, so if you're particularly good somewhere make sure you set a storming time there to cover off the tracks you can't quite get. I'm 2 tenths too slow at Mosport, 4 tenths at Rouen, 1.5 seconds at Spa and 9 tenths at the Nurburgring (which is, incidentally, really bloody annoying) but I'm 2 seconds inside target at Silverstone and 1.8 inside at the Glen, so those two tracks alone wipe out my deficit.
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Post by pk500 »

Damn, all this talk: I really need to reinstall GPL.

That said, I'm having a TON of fun offline with GTR2. I don't know how or why I overlooked that game 15 months ago when I got this machine. Probably because I tried it once and got sh*tty framerates and then dove right into rFactor.

But I found a thread with a lot of .PLR tweaks to improve framerates, and I found the superb FFB settings to which I linked earlier in this thread. With both, GTR2 is sublime.

The default driving model and opponent AI are miles ahead of most rFactor mods offline. I tried the JPBS prototype mod, and it was solid, but the Super GT mod still saps too much framerate. I'm not that interested in those cars, either, as the default GT cars more than satisfy my GT jones.

I downloaded the vaunted Power and the Glory mod today and am eager to try that tonight.

But indeed, GPL must return to my hard drive. A little bit of masochism never hurt any sim racer. :)

Take care,
PK
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Post by GB_Simo »

I've got a new incentive to keep on with GPL: GPLRank has eaten half my laptimes.

I set a new time at Mosport tonight which sent me negative there, so naturally wanted to upload it. I also ran at Spa and the Ring, being a little slower than before at both tracks. When I've uploaded my player.ini, it's decided to upload my Spa and Nurburgring times, along with a 1:05.8 at the Glen that I don't ever recall recording (I haven't ran there for months) to replace my previous 1:05.0. What's stranger is that there's no record of my old times in my history, even though these are the times that went towards the negative GPLRank the site announced on its front page a year ago.

Maddeningly, I'm now +0.622. The difference in the Glen times alone accounts for the difference between negative and positive rank, and after taking 8 years to go so quickly I could really do without having some website wipe out my best work. Hey ho.
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Post by GB_Simo »

I think there are people here using Vista, so hopefully someone can help me out.

I got myself a new rig a couple of weeks ago. Nothing too spectacular but enough to run full grids at full detail in rFactor, which is what I wanted. I cannot find, anywhere in my rFactor install, a folder to save any of my setups in. When I go into the UserData folder, I do not have an Adam Simpson folder in which to save my track settings. I've tried saving a setup in-game and searching for it through Windows, but no joy.

I'm assuming it's a setting within the OS that my XP-loving mind isn't seeing, but where the Hell's the folder at? My player profile works perfectly well in game, so I must have a folder somewhere...
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Post by pk500 »

Adam:

I'm not sure how Vista's file directory works, but in XP, my setups are located in:

C:\ProgramFiles\rFactor\UserData\Paul Kelly\Settings

Within that folder, there are individual folders for each track, within which there are setups for different cars for that track.

Good luck, and nice to hear you got a new rig! We need a DSP Poker Night again soon. I've been playing GTR 2 almost exclusively about the last six weeks, so it's high time for a return to rFactor even though I'm enjoying GTR 2 offline immensely.

Take care,
PK
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Post by GB_Simo »

pk500 wrote:Adam:

I'm not sure how Vista's file directory works, but in XP, my setups are located in:

C:\ProgramFiles\rFactor\UserData\Paul Kelly\Settings

Within that folder, there are individual folders for each track, within which there are setups for different cars for that track.
That's my problem, PK - I have C:\ProgramFiles\rFactor\UserData but there isn't an Adam Simpson in there, which in turn means there's no Settings folder, which means I've got no idea where my setups are meant to go. It's not the end of the world but it does mean there are a couple of mods I can't run, because they're lousy without the setups I'd downloaded; I tried CART 1995 at Cleveland and the default car is like driving a pogo stick.
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Post by Rodster »

Vista sux Adam use a real OS like Windows XP. :lol:

rFactor is what caused me to say good bye to that garbage OS.
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Post by pk500 »

Sorry, Adam. XP here. Vista sucks like a Hoover with older games, mate.

Take care,
PK
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Post by WPatrick »

Had the same problem a few months ago. Go to start/documents/Patrick (my log on name)rFactor/user data/Patrick/settings
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Post by GB_Simo »

WPatrick wrote:Had the same problem a few months ago. Go to start/documents/Patrick (my log on name)rFactor/user data/Patrick/settings
I love you.

The question still remains, though - which slack-jawed incompetent is responsible for that bloody file structure?
pk500 wrote:Vista sucks like a Hoover
I've fixed your message for you, mate. The bloody thing is filled with design features that make you want to hurt the man responsible.
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Post by pigpen81 »

DChaps wrote:Happy 10 year Anniversary Grand Prix Legends!!!!

As best as I can tell, today Oct. 9, 2008, marks the 10 year anniversary date for the greatest racing sim of all time, Grand Prix Legends.

Both IGN and Gamerankings say it was released Sept. 27, 2008. The Grand Prix Legends Wiki does not seem to have a definitive date. I went looking for my actual receipt as it was in my GPL box for many years, but I could not find it. However, it seems to be Oct. 9, 2008 as it is reported in the old 1998 Archives of EagleWoman Alison Hine's GPL site.
10/9/98 - I have received word from readers that GPL has been released in Australia and Germany. I believe it is available throughout much of Europe at this time. Inside information indicates presales of 75,000 copies in the US, and 225,000 copies in Europe!
This whole page (link below) is a pretty cool journal of the early days of GPL. Read from the bottom up.

http://eaglewoman.rscsites.org/gpl/news-archive-98.htm

I recently got Grand Prix Legends back up and running and discovered a couple new updates that I did not realize had been released.

1) Rouen Historical 2.0 - very nice update to Rouen

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=322698

2) Zandvoort Multi Season Graphics Update (1965-1969)

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=320952

To celebrate GPL's 10 year anniversary, my goal is to try one last time to get to a negative rank on the 11 original GPL tracks before the end of the year. GPL is the only game that I have played every year for the last 10 years, and yet I still suck at it and currently sit at a pretty pathetic +144.556. Actually, I would be happy if I could just get under +50. I have a long way to go at The Ring, Spa, and Rouen. Everywhere else I am under 5 sec. and have one barely negative rank at Monza.
I miss my GPL....ever since my CPU died over the summer, I am using Grandpa's old CPU which doesn't have a graphics card. I tried swapping my old one into it, but his CPU has AGP slots and my graphics card is PCI :(

Oh well, I need to find a deal on a decent AGP card.
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Post by DChaps »

Dude, I have a decent AGP card sitting in a box. Well, at least decent enough to handle GPL. If you have the Power Supply to handle it, I will send it to you. When I get home from work I will PM you the PC requirements on the card.
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Post by pigpen81 »

Thanks Don. I installed GPL on my cpu and it seems to run fine. Now my problem is my racing wheel. The connection on the back is loose, and I can't seem to steady it. So the throttle and brake go out of whack mid race.

Anyone have a cheap Momo?
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Post by pk500 »

The entire racing sim ballgame has changed for me since I finally satisfied my curiosity and tried the Live For Speed demo Saturday night.

This game is good, fellas. Unbelievably good.

Live For Speed has the best tire grip and physics model of any PC racing sim I've ever played. Blows rFactor into the weeds. Is much better than GTR 2. Better than NR 2003 and GPL. Slightly better than Richard Burns Rally, too.

The tire model is so realistic and detailed that tire flex under sidewall loads is simulated. You can see it. There is a replay angle that shows nothing but the front wheels from the cockpit, with nothing to hinder your vision. Here an example from YouTube:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GqjlsDsmukU&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

Look at those sidewalls flex under cornering and bump loads. It's incredible. Plus you can actually feel the tire flex through the wheel during understeer before it lets go.

I had an incredible moment last night when I nailed a curb, and the pneumatic rebound of the tire kicked the right side of my small compact into the air, touring car style. I drove out of it, with my car bouncing just a bit on the tires on return-to-terra firma impact. I was f*cking gobsmacked.

Where this tire model really elevates NFS above other sims I've tried is during braking and cornering. The cars is NFS feel like ... well, cars.

You can lean on the tires HARD and not spin away like a top on black ice like in rFactor. But when you reach the end of adhesion, you're either understeering or spinning. It's so realistic, it's nuts.

Plus one of my biggest pet peeves of GTR 2 and especially rFactor is just how ginger you must be on the brakes to avoid lockup. Not in NFS. You can stand on the binders, just like as in real life, and slow the car. But again, just like when cornering, when you reach the end of adhesion, the tires will lock and the car will understeer like a pig.

And when you start to lose the car in a slide, you can catch it if it's not too out of control and you're not carrying much too much speed. The only rFactor mod that even approaches this feel is the Historic GT & Touring mod.

This game has very, very pretty graphics for such miniscule system requirements, and online has been relatively lag-free. Not as hiccup-free as rFactor, but quite good. And the drivers are very clean and quick, for the most part.

What I REALLY dig about this game, besides the items mentioned above, is that this game allows you to push to the maximum to try and squeeze more time out of a lap. When you make a mistake, it doesn't feel like the result of a shoddy physics or tire engine. It feels like you made a mistake. You must take it slow and steady, hit your marks perfectly and learn the limits of the tires' adhesion every lap.

Another great feature is that you MUST blip the throttle on upshifts with a sequential or manual shifter. No auto-blip. It's fantastic and really challenges you.

The game has a solid damage model, good, live force feedback with nothing pre-canned like default rFactor and GTR2 FFB and reasonable offline AI.

The demo contains three cars -- a small compact, an RX-7 clone and an officially licensed Formula BMW -- and one fictitious track with a GP layout and a rallycross layout. The dirt physics are pretty good, although not on a level of Richard Burns Rally.

There are only two licensed cars in the full game -- the FBMW and a BMW Sauber F1 car -- and no licensed tracks. But all of the licensed vehicles are built to resemble real-life counterparts such as a Super GT car, Caterham, Renault World Series V8 open-wheel car, Formula Vee car, Porsche 911 street car, Porsche 911 GT car, etc.

So if you must have licensed cars and tracks, this game isn't for you. But if you want a physics and especially a tire model that blows away anything out there among the "big sims" -- I haven't tried iRacing -- then give the LFS demo a try. Hell, the demo is only 140 MB!

www.liveforspeed.net

Proper wheel setup is VITAL, but it's easy. I'm more than happy to offer any tips.

If anyone gets the demo and wants to race online, let me know. I know I sound like a pimp about this game, but it's really exciting, really good.

Give it a go. Take at least 30 minutes to remove all preconceptions of what you think a sim should feel like based on rFactor and GTR2 and run a large handful of laps. I think you'll fall in love with the tire and physics model.

Feel free to fire any questions to me in this thread.

Take care,
PK
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Post by pk500 »

One other killer function of Need For Speed: A top-rate real-time stats/servers/buddies list Web site:

http://www.lfsworld.net/

The stat tracking at this site is incredibly in-depth. Plus you can watch races online in 2D format, like the old Football Manager, as a spectator. There are a hell of a lot more features available, too.

This sim gets better and better the more I investigate it and play it. It's the real deal.

Take care,
PK
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Post by mixdj1 »

I'll have to give LFS another try. I installed it a couple years ago and although the driving model felt pretty good the graphics and interface were barely tolerable. But I'm sure it has improved considerably since I last gave it a shot.
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Post by pk500 »

Somebody please help me: I can't stop driving Live For Speed! I haven't touched rFactor or GTR 2 since I first tried this game.

:) :) :)

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PK
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Post by DChaps »

I may be up for some Live for Speed. Since my most recent OS reformat, I have not re-installed several sims, Live for Speed being one of them. Have you purchased the full game yet (S1 and S2 license)? If you don't mind the unlicensed tracks and cars, I believe it is worth the price. It's been several patches since I raced Live for Speed online, but I may be up for some tonight or this weekend. I had a bunch of crappy hotlaps posted at lfsworld awhile back, but I don't know if they are still there. Glad you are enjoying it, it is definitely a quality, but overlooked sim.
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Post by pk500 »

Don:

I haven't purchased the full game yet. That must wait until the next family budget cycle.

But I'm still enjoying the hell out of the demo and would be up for some racing Friday or Saturday night. Out of town Sunday night.

Let me know!

P.S.: I think it's very cool that the demo still lets you race online with full features. Besides great physics and tire models, the stats and data available in this sim are simply nuts!

Take care,
PK
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Post by pk500 »

Pretty cool LFS video made by a user, accompanied by "The Pretender" by Foo Fighters:

<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VNKfipLHtP4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed>

Enjoy,
PK
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Post by DChaps »

pk500 wrote:Don:

I haven't purchased the full game yet. That must wait until the next family budget cycle.

But I'm still enjoying the hell out of the demo and would be up for some racing Friday or Saturday night. Out of town Sunday night.
You have a PM and e-mail to your yahoo account. I should be available Friday and/or Saturday night for some Live for Speed.
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Post by fletcher21 »

any good sims coming to ps3 or 360?
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Post by Rodster »

fletcher21 wrote:any good sims coming to ps3 or 360?
The 360 is getting Simbin's "Race 360" as an exclusive.
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