OT: 2008 Elections/Politics thread, Part 2

[XXXIV]

This all seems so politically incorrect to exploit my people this way...

Parthenons and columns...

Greeks have feelings too.

[RobVarak]

Reports are that McCain has made his running mate decision. PLEASE don't be Romney...

[Feanor]

Please be Cheney...

[pk500]

So neoclassical staging is only for presidents then?

Nobody else should have the temerity to use Greek/Roman motifs?

Hmm, Obama better have that flag lapel pin on.

One, Obama was being presumptious for his ascendancy to the Oval Office with his rock star coronation tour last month in Europe. So what does he do? Give his nomination speech on a stage that looks like the White House.

How is that a smart move?

This stage is more than just a Greek temple. The video to which Teal linked showed that the back of the stage, between the columns, features glass with wooden window panes that looks like the windows of the White House.

Obama has been the candidate of new technology, of the Internet. Why not have some sort of high-tech stage with dignified underpinnings? Instead we get a fake White House portico with a two video boards.

Dopey PR move from a campaign which has taken the new tack of calling its foe an elitist. It really shouldn't matter, especially if Obama delivers a knockout speech. But in a political world in which everything is diced, sliced and pureed and turned into possible ammo by the opposition, the selection of the stage motif is not exactly a smooth move.

Then again, WCO, Obama could give his acceptance speech on a stage that resembles a set from "Caligula," and you'd give it your overwhelming seal of approval. We all know where you stand, how you roll politically, man.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Please be Cheney...

GO F*CK YOURSELF!

Love,
Patrick Leahy

[Teal]

You all have to admit it takes some Elgin marbles to stand in front of that Parthenon.

Maybe, but the marbles certainly aren't in his head...

[wco81]

Then again, WCO, Obama could give his acceptance speech on a stage that resembles a set from "Caligula," and you'd give it your overwhelming seal of approval. We all know where you stand, how you roll politically, man.

Take care,
PK

Right and you meanwhile will nitpick and make a federal case out of the most stupidest, manufactured outrages.

You haven't even seen how that stage will look on TV but you're ready to assume, "OMG, he's putting himself in a virtual White House!" What an egomaniac! Imagine that, a politician running for the highest office in the land having a bit of an ego.

Of all the things which are happening, that is what you want to put energy into?

[pk500]

Then again, WCO, Obama could give his acceptance speech on a stage that resembles a set from "Caligula," and you'd give it your overwhelming seal of approval. We all know where you stand, how you roll politically, man.

Take care,
PK

Right and you meanwhile will nitpick and make a federal case out of the most stupidest, manufactured outrages.

You haven't even seen how that stage will look on TV but you're ready to assume, "OMG, he's putting himself in a virtual White House!" What an egomaniac! Imagine that, a politician running for the highest office in the land having a bit of an ego.

Of all the things which are happening, that is what you want to put energy into?

What exactly is happening other than speeches filled with hot air by lions in winter saying farewell or potential candidates posturing for 2012 runs? And that applies to the Republican convention, too.

But to answer your question, yes, this is one of the more interesting parts of this convention to me until I hear Obama speak. Because the rest of both conventions mean nothing to me other than the candidates' acceptance speeches, because those are the people for whom I may pull a lever in 10 weeks.

I have listened to excerpts of the other speeches, and they're eloquent pep rallies, nothing more. The same thing will happen with the Republican convention: The only speech that will truly matter is McCain's.

I don't consider the stage choice an outrage. I consider it a peculiar choice, though, for a campaign that is very fixated on image. Plus, is it really a nitpick in a U.S. presidential campaign, in which image trumps substance almost every time for both parties' candidates?

And, considering you've made as many or more replies about this "issue" as me, it clearly picks a few nits with you, too.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

By the way, I guess some prominent Democratic officials are concerned about the stage motif and the setting of Invesco Field, too:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12918.html

Oh, those silly nitpickers!

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Interesting story about how Tropical Storm Gustav could affect the GOP convention if it becomes a hurricane and heads toward New Orleans. Its projected path is to hit the Gulf Coast:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12893.html

Take care,
PK

[wco81]

I meant in the campaign and in the country.

Really, you're going to judge a candidate on what kind of stage he speaks on?

Peculiar choice? This whole Greek temple thing is a talking point -- it's all over the RW blogosphere.

The narrative out of the McCain campaign is that Obama is this egomaniacal, entitled huckster already acting like he's president.

Hmm, have we heard that before? Oh yeah, Clinton has this sense of entitlement, Gore thought he was born and bred to be president, etc.

Meanwhile, McCain is your humble servant. You know, he was a POW and didn't have a kitchen table!

[pk500]

I meant in the campaign and in the country.

Really, you're going to judge a candidate on what kind of stage he speaks on?

I'm sure as hell not, but you're naive and overestimate the American electorate if you think that the GOP spin on the Greek temple stage won't cause some swing voters to sway, if only temporarily.

Peculiar choice? This whole Greek temple thing is a talking point -- it's all over the RW blogosphere.

Yeah, I think it's peculiar choice, nothing more. I wouldn't know about the RW blogosphere because I don't read or participate in it. Sorry to disappoint you.

The narrative out of the McCain campaign is that Obama is this egomaniacal, entitled huckster already acting like he's president.

Hmm, have we heard that before? Oh yeah, Clinton has this sense of entitlement, Gore thought he was born and bred to be president, etc.

Meanwhile, McCain is your humble servant. You know, he was a POW and didn't have a kitchen table!

You expect anything different from the GOP? This is a presidential campaign, after all, not a tea party. The ghost of Lee Atwater at his nasty peak never is further away than a Karl Rove seance for that crew.

Take care,
PK

[Inuyasha]

why would republicans be pissed if McCain picked Lieberman or Romney? Those two are guys that would attract democratic voters on the republican side. Help me understand the mind of the Ultra Right. Is it they would be mad because ones a Jew and the other is a Morman? That is sad if that would be the reason. That's as bad as someone not wanting Hillary for President since she's a woman or Obama for President since he's black.

[pk500]

Lieberman is pro-choice, which would trigger a right-wing meltdown.

Plus Lieberman would provide easy fodder for the DNC, and for Biden in the VP debates.

"You were one of us a year ago. Now you're running as the Republican VP candidate? How can you change your principles so quickly? What exactly do you stand for? You call Barack Obama a flip-flopper? At least he didn't switch parties!"

Take care,
PK

[RobVarak]

Lieberman is pro-choice, which would trigger a right-wing meltdown.

Plus Lieberman would provide easy fodder for the DNC, and for Biden in the VP debates.

"You were one of us a year ago. Now you're running as the Republican VP candidate? How can you change your principles so quickly? What exactly do you stand for? You call Barack Obama a flip-flopper? At least he didn't switch parties!"

Take care,
PK

Plus he doesn't align with the GOP platform on anything except the war.

[Teal]

why would republicans be pissed if McCain picked Lieberman or Romney? Those two are guys that would attract democratic voters on the republican side. Help me understand the mind of the Ultra Right. Is it they would be mad because ones a Jew and the other is a Morman? That is sad if that would be the reason. That's as bad as someone not wanting Hillary for President since she's a woman or Obama for President since he's black.

Backwoods racist bastards! Um, no. That ain't the reason. Maybe in Toothless County, Mississippi, but not in most places.

I like Lieberman, like Romney. I think Lieberman would make a better Sec. of Defense, or Sec of State in a McCain cabinet, really. PK's right...he'd be too easy for the DNC guys to tear into.

Romney? Not a bad choice, really. What'd be really smart, though, IMO, is for McCain to pick someone that did run against him in the primaries, to kill any chances of the kind of ads that McCain has been so successful running, what with Hillary and Biden in their own words.

[FatPitcher]

So neoclassical staging is only for presidents then?

Nobody else should have the temerity to use Greek/Roman motifs?

Hmm, Obama better have that flag lapel pin on.

One of the skills I have to have as a game designer is to understand what appeals to the typical gamer, not just to me. It's a similar deal with politics. If you're a voter on the far left or right, you see everything done by your candidates in the best possible light, rather than how the average voter sees them.

The whole stadium thing fits perfectly into the "Obama as lightweight rock-star celeb" line of attack, and the overblown backdrop only makes it worse. Still better than "Reporting for duty", however.

[FatPitcher]

Lieberman is pro-choice, which would trigger a right-wing meltdown.

Plus Lieberman would provide easy fodder for the DNC, and for Biden in the VP debates.

"You were one of us a year ago. Now you're running as the Republican VP candidate? How can you change your principles so quickly? What exactly do you stand for? You call Barack Obama a flip-flopper? At least he didn't switch parties!"

Take care,
PK

Giuliani is pro-choice as well, and he was doing OK with Republicans (front-runner) until he decided to go AWOL from the race for a few weeks.

Lieberman isn't just pro-choice, he's solid Left. Sure, he's stuck by his guns on his Iraq vote instead of using the "misled" excuse as political cover/ammunition, but the Iraq occupation is just one issue and certainly one that not all Republicans even agree on.

McCain's biggest problem is already that he's too much like a Democrat in an era when people vote for parties, not candidates. His centrist positions will push away more Republicans than they attract Democrats, and Lieberman would just make that worse. The only reason your average Republican voter likes Lieberman is because he's not on TV every day talking about how evil and incompetent Republicans are. Doesn't mean they'd vote for him.

[matthewk]

Barack Obama's appearance in Denver won't be the first convention speech framed by Greek columns.

Republicans who are mocking Obama's appearance haven't mentioned it, but George W. Bush accepted his own nomination in 2004 on a set with a similar neoclassical theme, with columns rising on either side of him, as the pictures above and below show.

Indeed, the Bush set and the Obama sets currently look strikingly similar, with the podium set well in front of the columns, and connected by a path.

The attachment to kitsch, particularly at political conventions, is clearly bipartisan. (There are also a couple of columns in America, as Matthew Yglesias notes.)

Pictures at:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/ ... ml?showall

Couple of differences here.

1) In 2004, Bush was already the president, so having a very presidential set was more appropriate.
2) It wasn't in a football stadium, with a rock concert atmosphere.

The main problem many have with what Obama is doing is he's acting as if he's already president and if he's a rock star.

[sportdan30]

Well, I for one was quite impressed by Bill Clinton's and Joe Biden's speech. I'm not here to start a debate, other than to say those two men really captivated my attention with what they said.

[matthewk]

Even if they were similar, the use of the stage in Denver remains funny and a bit tone deaf.

I'm almost expecting some women to throw their bras up on stage at him tonight

[matthewk]

Bush has been correctly criticized for being presumptuous ever since he used his mandate of getting less votes than Gore to take America down the hard right, neocon path of waging war on false pretenses while cutting taxes and letting the deficit and public debt balloon once again.

Edit: In the interest of keeping this thread from being locked, I'll just let this go.

[matthewk]

Reports are that McCain has made his running mate decision. PLEASE don't be Romney...

Why do you say that Rob? Other than ths issues evengelicals have with him, I think he'd be a great choice, especially given his strong economic background. The economy has passed by the war as the #1 issue, and he would be a great assest in that respect.

[Brando70]

Well, I for one was quite impressed by Bill Clinton's and Joe Biden's speech. I'm not here to start a debate, other than to say those two men really captivated my attention with what they said.

Clinton seemed a bit lukewarm toward Obama at first -- he was saying the right things, but you could tell the difference between his words about Obama compared to the heartfelt praise for Biden. However, he hit on a lot of good points and seemed to be more genuine in supporting Obama by the end. He broke the ice well by making the joke about how the race between Clinton and Obama was so hot it contributed to global warming. And he had one other line I liked, about how we should impress the world with the power of our example, not the example of our power. Whether that's valid or not, I thought it was a good bit of writing.

As for Obama's stage, as ridiculous as it seems, he probably had no real input into it. I'm sure it was all the DNC's doing, and some designer they hired thought the stage would convey a sense of gravitas or some s***.

[RobVarak]

Reports are that McCain has made his running mate decision. PLEASE don't be Romney...

Why do you say that Rob? Other than ths issues evengelicals have with him, I think he'd be a great choice, especially given his strong economic background. The economy has passed by the war as the #1 issue, and he would be a great assest in that respect.

His Mormonism doesn't bother me in the least, but I don't really care for him for several reasons. Many politicians flip-flop on single issues, but his record is like a hummingbird's EKG. At various times he's been on both fundamental sides of gun control, immigration, gay marriage and abortion. In a world of opportunistic politicians he strikes me as far worse than most.

More importantly for his role as VP, I don't think he really adds anyting to speak of. Just as with the Biden choice, I don't think that you should take a candidate who highlights the weakness of the top of the ticket. Why remind people that McCain's strength is not on economic issues? The lack of real bump from the Biden announcement should give the McCain camp pause. The only thing he might add is a leg up in MI, which is obviously a huge state this election.

Of those people mentioned I'd prefer Sarah Palin or JC Watts. Although I read today that Rush Limbaugh is pushing for Palin, which does give me some pause I disagree with both of them on some key issues (principally gay marriage and embryonic stem cell research), but align with them generally and feel that they would be good campaigners and good VP's. Palin in particular, who has a short but impressive resume, would also emphasize Obama's extreme inexperience by comparison.

But hey, I'm the guy who thought there was no way Obama would pick Biden, so what do I know?