The Beautiful Game Thread 10/11

[miget33]

Cesc to Iniesta to Messi. Seems like Cesc was trying that out for next season

[rhymes450]

Outrageous finish by Messi though. What do Arsenal do now?

[10spro]

Outrageous finish by Messi though. What do Arsenal do now?

Wonder why Van Persie started the game...and see if #10 will get a hat trick.

[wco81]

I was thinking more of Ronaldo.

And other Latin players always accused of diving.

Like English players don't dive either.

[rhymes450]

Busquets is an outstanding holding midfielder and that's probably one of the better goals he's scored. Bet he'll be glad to see the return of Puyol and Pique. Fair dues to Nasri for his work down the left. Don't know whether the ref was thicker than Van Persie or vice-versa...probably a bit of both!!! Brave performance by Arsenal over the two legs.

[Naples39]

Latin players do dive more often, I'm not sure how this can even be disputed. For whatever reason, it's more acceptable behavior to them.

As for Ronaldo, maybe this is why a lot of people don't like him?

[toonarmy]

Barca are just incredible this year. It is a privilege to be able to watch Messi. His game is sheer art.

[toonarmy]

Latin players do dive more often, I'm not sure how this can even be disputed. For whatever reason, it's more acceptable behavior to them.

As for Ronaldo, maybe this is why a lot of people don't like him?

Thanks for that!

As for Latin players diving more often, there is no argument. I love La Liga, the EPL, and the SPL, so I have no bias. Latin players, whether they be from South America, Spain, Portugal, or Italy, dive so much that it is a disgrace to the sport. The level of that s*** in the SPL and EPL is not even close to that in the South American and Italian leagues.

[wco81]

Not denying they dive.

But the "physical" EPL have "tough" tackling too. That's how they try to counter someone like Messi who's too fleet for them.

Maybe they tackle like that because they think those forwards are going to dive anyways.

[RobVarak]

Not denying they dive.

But the "physical" EPL have "tough" tackling too. That's how they try to counter someone like Messi who's too fleet for them.

Maybe they tackle like that because they think those forwards are going to dive anyways.

The tension between skill/speed versus strength/power is as old as the game itself, and mirrored by the "beautiful football" versus "pragmatic" debates that are nearly as old. The reality is that the game is a heterogeneous, with elements of all of these things blended, albeit not always in equal measure. It's an arbitrary aesthetic evaluation to say that a skilled player like Messi is somehow objectively better than the thug center-half who scythes him down, but it's one that most people agree with. On the other hand, cynical physical play is derided...unless it gets the team you support a much needed 1-0 win.

Diving is another thing altogether. The incentives, a penalty kick with a high rate of success in a game with so few officials covering so much territory who are so reluctant to book a player for simulation, all mitigate in favor of diving. So players of every ethnic and racial background do it. I watched a ton of the African Cup of Nations last time around, and those guys made the Argentine league look like pikers when it comes to diving. All of them dive a hell of a lot more than you see in the Portuguese league as well.

I expect that there are factors beyond culture at play here. Part of me suspects that diving may be more endemic in the football in second and third-world countries where officials are less professional. Refs in these leagues, be they in Asia, Central or South America or Africa, tend to be in poorer shape, out of position more and more subject to prejudice and influence. As a result, diving will have an even greater rate of success. And as more people dive, the less the fans, league officials and other players will care. Just a theory.

[10spro]

I expect that there are factors beyond culture at play here. Part of me suspects that diving may be more endemic in the football in second and third-world countries where officials are less professional. Refs in these leagues, be they in Asia, Central or South America or Africa, tend to be in poorer shape, out of position more and more subject to prejudice and influence. As a result, diving will have an even greater rate of success. And as more people dive, the less the fans, league officials and other players will care. Just a theory.

Can't argue much with what you say. When you live under poorer conditions, you get to understand quicker also how tough life can be for some. So instead of playing with a DS, an aspiring soccer player finds himself in need to help his parents make ends meet while keeping the slim dream of making into the big leagues. So yeah, a lot of culture influence plays a role here.

Also in many places that you already mentioned, referees are being bribed night and day to encourage a certain result which leads to the problem of gambling.

It's like a never ending domino effect, which makes certain players from the usual suspect places to cheat more often.

[Jimmydeicide]

As for the thug against skill argument the only thing thats changing from the Pele era lets just say is he was hacked down on purpose almost everytime because yes guys didnt know what to do to stop him but nowadays i think its a little different in that the players are just too quick and fancy and they get caught by accident little nicks here and there its the nature of playing that way.
Having said that tho in Pele's day he rides thru most of those little kicks and jabs to the calf instead of jumping on the floor and rolling around holding a body part that wasnt even contacted ( Alves cough).

[Macca00]

I think Joe Cole is about as useful as an underwater hairdryer.

[RobVarak]

I think Joe Cole is about as useful as an underwater hairdryer.

And worse still was the fact that the lineup/formation that they played in the first half was begging for him to be the creative force. Last time Kenny makes that mistake, I think.

[Jimmydeicide]

at least the hair dryer may take someone down with it. maybe Cole's gfi needs to be reset as well.

[miget33]

Poor Squiddy, Inter advance with goal in final minutes.

[10spro]

What a match between Bayern and Inter. One of the better ones in this young year, clear chances on both sides, well played. I can hear fsquid's cursing now as Bayern had all kinds of chances to go up by 3-4 goals in the first half and they just couldn't convert them. Inter did finish them with 2 minutes to go and they move on.

[fsquid]

eh, it is football. Pissed me off, but that kind of defending is the story of the last two years. Doubt Van Gaal makes it to the end of the week now.

[Macca00]

Chicharito/Churro/LookslikeRipleyFromAliens at United has to be the signing of the season.

In other news good to see Nani recover from his season ending leg injury in record time. Not to say that I don't think that Carragher tackle was godawful but I still can't get over Nani crying like a b*tch on the field. A guy on my Monday indoor team tore is MCL last night and just sat there swearing...and he's not exactly the Terry Butcher-type.

EDIT:
I am now craving Churros. Goddammit!

[10spro]

Chicharito/Churro/LookslikeRipleyFromAliens at United has to be the signing of the season.

In other news good to see Nani recover from his season ending leg injury in record time. Not to say that I don't think that Carragher tackle was godawful but I still can't get over Nani crying like a b*tch on the field. A guy on my Monday indoor team tore is MCL last night and just sat there swearing...and he's not exactly the Terry Butcher-type.

EDIT:
I am now craving Churros. Goddammit!

Churrito looked good. Along Suarez, they have been fitting rather well in their respective red shirts.

[miget33]

Chicharito/Churro/LookslikeRipleyFromAliens at United has to be the signing of the season.

In other news good to see Nani recover from his season ending leg injury in record time. Not to say that I don't think that Carragher tackle was godawful but I still can't get over Nani crying like a b*tch on the field. A guy on my Monday indoor team tore is MCL last night and just sat there swearing...and he's not exactly the Terry Butcher-type.

EDIT:
I am now craving Churros. Goddammit!

Agreed on all counts, now excuse me while I go find a churro.

[rhymes450]

I thought Etoo was outstanding over the two legs. Etoo + 40 million euros in exchange for Ibrahimovic continues to look like a very neat bit of business from Inter's perspective.

[Naples39]

I'm always impressed by what I see from Chicharito--gets into good positions and has a great knack for finishing. Not looking forward to seeing play for El Tri against the USA.

This also warrants a post if you haven't already seen it on some US soccer blogs yesterday;

[10spro]

Never followed MLS much as some of you guys, but Vancouver Whitecaps make their debut this weekend against Toronto, I guess I will be digging my nose closer to the league from now on.

[Naples39]

Never followed MLS much as some of you guys, but Vancouver Whitecaps make their debut this weekend against Toronto, I guess I will be digging my nose closer to the league from now on.

We had our first season in Philadelphia last year. First year is rough--team is makeshift. Union even played better than I expected but lost a ton of results due to appalling goaltending. I barely got to use my season tickets last year due to illness and didn't renew this year, but will attend a few choice games and I think the team should actually be competitive this year. Actually considering getting some tickets off stubhub for the home opener against Vancouver next weekend.