ESPN 2K5 Impressions

[Brando70]

There's a bit of tip-itis in the passing game. Sometimes it looks cool, but there's been a couple NCAA-esque moments of tiparoo.

At least they are volleyball-esque...NCAA's tips defied gravity more times than not.

True, but I saw a couple in my ESPN game last night that were almost identical. There was one in particular that got batted around 5 times.

However, there was also a very cool tip where I chucked the ball into the endzone, and the safety tipped it up in the air, then reached up and grabbed the ball for an interception.

I think the best thing I can say is I'm looking forward to playing it again tonight. NCAA, even though I like it, hasn't really given me that dying-to-play-it feeling.

[TCrouch]

Badgun,

I'm actually completely lost as to the badly thrown balls comment. I would talk about the obvious, but I know you've played ESPN before. I've noticed that the Maximum Passing is VERY touchy this year, as well as trying to throw on the run. Either of those will be insanely hard to complete a pass on.

When standing in the pocket and delivering, I'm throwing strikes with regularity...think my online percentage so far is somewhere around 67% through 4 games. I have to believe that you're moving the stick too much...either pre-throw or during the windup and making the ball sail off. As for the guys getting to the ball in a swarm...well, that will happen from time to time for sure. However, when I make my throws on time, in the scheme of the play, it's not anywhere CLOSE to what they do in NCAA.

To each his own, for sure...I'm just not seeing the issues with the passing game. If anything, I thought they made it easier this year.

[dbdynsty25]

Badgun,

By late last night (10pm Pacific) all that profile and roster crap was fixed and it was working fine.

[slimer]

If my guys aren't blanketed, then my qb might throw the ball 20 yards over their head. I mean I had some God awful throws last night. I played against my son and he had 4 INTs against me and all of them were just really badly thrown balls. I've never seen this many passes go this far off target in a video football game.

Bad,

You are probably playing with the Cowboys, as am I. I have thrown 6 INT's in 2 games (1 online, 1 offline) with Q-Car. Seems pretty realistic to me.

[pk500]

Great feedback, fellas. Really gave me an accurate indication of what was to come after I bought the game. But now that the shrink wrap is off my copy of ESPN NFL 2K5 for the Xbox and I've played a couple of offline games, here are my very early impressions:

1. Incredible presentation. Man, this is the best-looking team sports video game I've ever played. The animations, replays, cut scenes, everything are incredible.

2. Seems to be a sh*tload of Xbox Live options. I like the ESPN Messaging feature a lot. DB sent me a message last night, asking me if I wanted to play, before sending an Invite. I had no idea what the icon that appeared on my screen meant until I figured out I had a message.

3. I like the profiles. Cool that you're favorite team, logo, etc., are shown every time you fire up the game.

4. The coaching and playcalling tendencies for your team and the CPU team are very, very cool.

5. Seems to be a touch of slowdown at times during cut scenes, but nothing show-stopping.

6. The running game, especially to the outside, is tougher this year. That's a nice touch.

7. All of the broken tackles are gone this year. Excellent.

8. Passing seems to be much more balanced this year. You really need to be smart on your QB dropbacks and reading the defense, or you'll get picked often. I think this game does an amazing job of modeling bad throws when the QB either throws against his body or hasn't planted his feet. For example, I'm playing as Jacksonville against Cincy last night, and Cincy's pass rush flushed Leftwich to the right. I saw a receiver open 20 yards downfield, but I threw across Leftwich's body off the back foot when he was in a full sprint. The result was a duck that the Cincy LB picked off and ran in for a score. You really need to be smart with passing in this game. High-percentage throws will be complete. Stupid or low-percentage throws will get picked or batted away.

9. As some have said, there seems to be a bit of volleyball among the DB's when breaking up passes, but nothing game-killing.

10. Seems to be even more pre-snap adjustments than last year. I was lost last year; I'll be clueless this year.

11. I love the Favorites menu. Very cool to put your most commonly used plays in one folder for easy access.

In summary, I think the presentation and options of ESPN NFL 2K5 are revolutionary, while the gameplay is evolutionary. The look and options of the game are incredible, while the already-strong gameplay was tweaked to fix a lot of the niggling bugs from last year's game.

This will be the best 20 bones I've spent on a video game this year. Very fun, and forces you to think football while playing. I've always liked that about the 2K series, and this year is no different.

Take care,
PK

[dbdynsty25]

This will be the best 20 bones I've spent on a video game this year.

Even more than CMR4? That's sayin' something comin' from you.

[pk500]

This will be the best 20 bones I've spent on a video game this year.

Even more than CMR4? That's sayin' something comin' from you.

Yeah, more than CMR 04 and ICS 2005 just because of the incredible presentation and graphics, and sheer depth of the game. And ESPN NFL is nowhere near as buggy as ICS 2005.

Honestly, I slightly prefer racing to football, both in games and real life. But this game is so damn good, at least from my surface impressions.

Take care,
PK

[hellbent]

Gotta agree with TCrouch and Badgun that the passing has definitely been tweaked this year. Usually I throw short to medium range outs and slants as a bullet pass, and push down HARD on the receiver button. This is a habit I picked up from when the XBOX controller button sensitivity with the NFL2K series was a little messy ( was it 2K2 or 2K3 ? ).

Trying this method last night, things didn't work out so well. Every pass was getting telegraphed like 5 yards away from the receiver or getting dropped. So, I started taking a little bit off the ball, and the receivers started making catches. Now I just need to make sure I don't take too much off of my short stuff, or that gives the defenders even more time to close on the ball. This is especially true when the receiver has little time to separate on short routes. Maybe the pass view zoom out function will help see the far wides on quick routes.

One of the few issues I'm still having with passing now is when, as TCrouch said, I don't set my feet before throwing - the ball will either sail wayyy offline, or the QB will "hesitate" and get sacked. Hopefully once I learn the feel of the controls a little better for this version, things will improve for me passing.

[rayray00]

badgun,

I have noticed the same thing when playing with the 'Boys - sub in Vinny and you'll see a HUGE difference in accuracy. I think QC had 4 picks in one of my franchise games - 1 of which I would call 'user error'...the others were very off target.

[FloridaGators]

There are some things, for the future, that ESPN should just copy off of Madden.

I never understood the QB scrambling in the ESPN series. Why not press triangle/Y to pull your options down and then take off?

Why not make the Depth Chart menus like Madden, instead of this cluttered move the guy over then hit a button to see his full ratings business?

Why can't the guys run like Madden. This even effects plays after the play where you see the player "wobble" back to the huddle.

Animations are great...I think we should get a thread going at some point to a few more they can add or take out this of this years. Personally I would like to see a referee conference every once in a while before the ref makes his call, more player specific celebrations (Dawkins bird celebration), etc....overall though the cut scenes are great.

The crowd. NCAA 2005 really makes this an amazing feeling. Playing at Arrowhead Stadium shouldn't be like playing at an Arizona Cardinals game. This is the first thing they should address after the running for ESPN 2k6.

I am enjoying the game...I wouldn't say it's a perfect game, but it's close.

It'd be great if some things were changed though.

[FloridaGators]

For clarification I am on the inferior PS2, so maybe the Xbox plays a little better.

I'll be on the Xbox version in mid August, since my two friends that I'll be staying with at our offcampus apartment own Xboxes.

[TheBrock]

The thing that sets NFL2K5 apart for me so far is the CPU coaching. While playing the Bucs, they used Alstott in certain situations rather than Garner. I don't recall too many times when a CPU opponent in any football game has used the fullback on a regular basis (although only the elite ones get much use in real life). And when they were blowing me out in the 4th quarter, they brought in backups to finish the game.

I know games have sometimes said that each team plays like its real-life counterpart, but I believe this is the first time it is actually represented as an option (via the VIP system). I haven't tested it out thoroughly, but I would guess if you changed the VIP for a team (like making Parcells the coach of the Bucs instead of Gruden) then the team would play a different game.

And after going 3-16 and 0-12 passing in my first 2 games of an NCAA dynasty, it was refreshing to complete 50% of my passes using Carson Palmer in my first game of NFL2K5.

[Danimal]

What's up with the online mode? Everytime I go online, I get the message "Blah, blah, the game cannot load your profile, so the current one will be used instead". Then when I finally do connect, I get another message that my rosters don't match the online rosters and before I can play, I'll have to download the roster, but nothing ever downloads. I did get in one game online before the server went down, but I don't remember Sega having trouble in the past.

I had this same issue last night and I figured it out. I had moved recently and my information in my Xbox dashboard pertaining to my credit card was not valid. I had to go in and change that information before those messages I would go away and I could download the proper rosters.

So make sure your Xbox Account info is up to date.

[pk500]

What's up with the online mode? Everytime I go online, I get the message "Blah, blah, the game cannot load your profile, so the current one will be used instead". Then when I finally do connect, I get another message that my rosters don't match the online rosters and before I can play, I'll have to download the roster, but nothing ever downloads. I did get in one game online before the server went down, but I don't remember Sega having trouble in the past.

I had this same issue last night and I figured it out. I had moved recently and my information in my Xbox dashboard pertaining to my credit card was not valid. I had to go in and change that information before those messages I would go away and I could download the proper rosters.

So make sure your Xbox Account info is up to date.

Dan:

That's not the issue. A bunch of us with current accounts received the same message last night. I know I did, and my XBL account is current. The issue was with the servers.

Your account troubles and the online troubles of last night were non-related, I believe.

Take care,
PK

[Badgun]

What's up with the online mode? Everytime I go online, I get the message "Blah, blah, the game cannot load your profile, so the current one will be used instead". Then when I finally do connect, I get another message that my rosters don't match the online rosters and before I can play, I'll have to download the roster, but nothing ever downloads. I did get in one game online before the server went down, but I don't remember Sega having trouble in the past.

I had this same issue last night and I figured it out. I had moved recently and my information in my Xbox dashboard pertaining to my credit card was not valid. I had to go in and change that information before those messages I would go away and I could download the proper rosters.

So make sure your Xbox Account info is up to date.

Dan:

That's not the issue. A bunch of us with current accounts received the same message last night. I know I did, and my XBL account is current. The issue was with the servers.

Your account troubles and the online troubles of last night were non-related, I believe.

Take care,
PK

Yeah, my acount is good thru December, but dbdynasty had already cleared this up saying it was fixed last night.

[reeche]

I never understood the QB scrambling in the ESPN series. Why not press triangle/Y to pull your options down and then take off? Why not make the Depth Chart menus like Madden, instead of this cluttered move the guy over then hit a button to see his full ratings business?

I think some things are just what you are used. I personally hate the way you scramble in Madden. I've always found 2k to have the simpler system. Just hold a "scamble" button and let go of it when you want to throw. I get confused in madden in that I don't have time to hit the button to bring them back up again if I want to throw the ball on the run. I wish Madden would switch in that regard.

As far as the Depth Chart though, I do prefer the Madden system.

[TCrouch]

Exactly what I was going to say er: scrambling.

Also agree with the menus and depth chart info. Madden's is simple. Hell, give us the kicking meter too. Kicking a FG in ESPN is money every time, no real difficulty to it.

[Badgun]

Badgun,

I'm actually completely lost as to the badly thrown balls comment. I would talk about the obvious, but I know you've played ESPN before. I've noticed that the Maximum Passing is VERY touchy this year, as well as trying to throw on the run. Either of those will be insanely hard to complete a pass on.

When standing in the pocket and delivering, I'm throwing strikes with regularity...think my online percentage so far is somewhere around 67% through 4 games. I have to believe that you're moving the stick too much...either pre-throw or during the windup and making the ball sail off. As for the guys getting to the ball in a swarm...well, that will happen from time to time for sure. However, when I make my throws on time, in the scheme of the play, it's not anywhere CLOSE to what they do in NCAA.

To each his own, for sure...I'm just not seeing the issues with the passing game. If anything, I thought they made it easier this year.

Terry,
I wish I could blame it on my pulling or pushing on the stick, but I never touch the stick because Sega said you should let your qb drop back on his own. So all I do is let the qb drop back, tap the receiver button and don't touch anything else. I'm completing about 30% of my passes with Carter with an incredibly high INT rate. Now maybe I'm more at fault here than the game, but using the method I just described, I have seen some 10 yard passes go 10 yards to the right or left of the intended target. I mean you know when you make a mistake pass in this game, but in the cases I mentioned, I actually had an open guy and I just tried to get the ball to him and the da*n thing would just go way offline. After reading this whole thread, I see more guys that have had the same problem when using the Cowboys, so it might be that they modeled Carter just right.

Anyway, by contrast, my 14 year old son does everything that they tell you not to do and completes passes all the time. He yanks back on the stick and never lets his qb take the normal drop, then he bullet passes everything into traffic and he's completing about 70% of his passes. Just one of those things that makes you say WTF?

[ScoopBrady]

I never understood the QB scrambling in the ESPN series. Why not press triangle/Y to pull your options down and then take off? Why not make the Depth Chart menus like Madden, instead of this cluttered move the guy over then hit a button to see his full ratings business?

I think some things are just what you are used. I personally hate the way you scramble in Madden. I've always found 2k to have the simpler system. Just hold a "scamble" button and let go of it when you want to throw. I get confused in madden in that I don't have time to hit the button to bring them back up again if I want to throw the ball on the run. I wish Madden would switch in that regard.

As far as the Depth Chart though, I do prefer the Madden system.

Reeche and Terry, you beat me to it. I love the scrambling in ESPN. I also feel it's much more user friendly than Madden's system. Hold the right trigger to scramble and release to bring the icons back up. No press the triangle button to bring the icons down. Scramble. Try to find the triangle button with the pressure on. Get sacked.

I'm just not a joystick jockey so I like the simplified approach that ESPN offers.

[Danimal]

What's up with the online mode? Everytime I go online, I get the message "Blah, blah, the game cannot load your profile, so the current one will be used instead". Then when I finally do connect, I get another message that my rosters don't match the online rosters and before I can play, I'll have to download the roster, but nothing ever downloads. I did get in one game online before the server went down, but I don't remember Sega having trouble in the past.

I had this same issue last night and I figured it out. I had moved recently and my information in my Xbox dashboard pertaining to my credit card was not valid. I had to go in and change that information before those messages I would go away and I could download the proper rosters.

So make sure your Xbox Account info is up to date.

Dan:

That's not the issue. A bunch of us with current accounts received the same message last night. I know I did, and my XBL account is current. The issue was with the servers.

Your account troubles and the online troubles of last night were non-related, I believe.

Take care,
PK

I should have been more clear. I was having the problem even after the server problems were fixed. Because my address in my account settings didn't compesh with my credit card any longer I could not even download the free rosters. But I guess you're right could have been a big coincedence.

[tsunami]

Like most of you have said, this game feels alot like last years version with a few things fixed. After the initial buzz of playing the new version wore off, I couldn't help but feel like I was playing the same game from the past few years. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since past years games have been good.

Here's a couple of comments:

- They finally fixed the QB animations!! The QB will now actually face the direction he is throwing and step into the throws, instead of having his legs stay still and his upper body turing to throw. Only took 6 years. The QB throwing animations are really nice this year and finally look better than Madden.

- I don't understand why they make the QB do a 180 whenever you push left on the stick (for a right handed QB)...even slightly? There doesn't seem to be any sensitivity wth the stick when it comes to moving the QB. You can't have him take small steps in the pocket at all. I don't need the QB to face left, I just want to sidestep him to the left a little bit. Most QB's in the league make their living in the pocket and need to make small adjustments to avoid defenders or find open lanes. The EA football games allow for this type of movement and Sega is obviously still working on it.

- They finally fixed the ball in flight animation on long throws! Only took 6 years. The ball will now actually point up and down on passes. That is one of the biggest things that bothered me about these games in the past.

- Speaking of which, when will they fix the kicking animations? They still look terrible and look like the kicker is putting no effort into the kick. Gee, I wish I could kick a 50+ yard FG without taking a back swing with my leg! Maybe that one will take 7 years.

- The presentation is top notch again...but the on the field chatter sounds downright awful! Have you heard the guys talking on the sidelines or on the field after an injury or a field measurement? Terrible. Whoever thought that sounded good should be fired. It's almost embarrassing to listen to some of it. During one cutscene where they showed an injured player on the sideline table, he sounded like he was pleasuring himself with a soft whispered "Ohh....Ahhh...". It was very disturbing.

- Playing a game as Buffalo vs Denver, Chris Berman mentioned during the preview that he was interested to see what Mike Williams would do. Nothing wrong with that I guess...there is an OT named Mike Williams on Buffalo. However, he then went on to mention that Mike Williams just came off a season in college in which he lead his USC team to share of the national title. Funny...I thought MIke Williams from USC was not allowed to enter the draft. Good stuff.

- The overall graphics and animations are excellent...especially in HDTV.

- I like the fact that you can replay every play during the game and that the halftime and end games highlights include actual plays from the game ala the Winning Eleven series.

- No in game save?? And why not?

- Why is there so much emphasis on momentum for offensive players, yet defensive players do not adhere to the same rules? I have seen defenders stop and spin on a dime to cut back to the ball. Madden does this as well. Why do developers praise "momentum based physics" when it only applies to one side of the ball. What good is that really?

- The playbooks seem largely unchanged from past years and there I'm not seeing much variation among the teams. And they need to get some team specific defensive plays as well.

- Is SD going to be running a no huddle this year? I was playing SD last night (don't remember who I was) and they were no huddling up the field...in the first quarter on their first posession!! I managed to stop them, but I have NEVER seem that from the AI in a football game. I thought something was wrong or that I had accidently gotten onto XBL and some cheeser had mysteriously taken control of the AI and I didn't know it. Very strange...anyone esle see something like this?



I know those sound a little negative, but my overall impressions are positive...just not overwhelming.

The best thing I can say about ESPN, and this holds true to past versions as well, is that I actually get the feeling I could be watching a real game while playing this one. I mean, if you look at replays (whether they be manual or the cutscenes of highlights), you could easily mistake those for real NFL games...that's how good they look and how smooth they move. I have NEVER thought that way about any Madden game. As much as I have enjoyed Madden in the past and been frustrated by Sega's games, I have never thought that Madden in any way resembled an actual NFL game in any way.

The other thing about ESPN is that players actually appear to get separation from defenders and plays actually look like they break down, just like in the real game. During a few games last night I watched a few of my offensive replays to see what happened on the play (usually an incompletion I threw into coverage) and I could almost always find an open receiver somewhere. And not 30 yards down the field, but almost right off the line. Whether it was a bad defensive call or missed assignment (kind of hard since it is AI), but that kind of thing is almost never seen in any EA games, whether it's man or zone. Conversely, while I was on defense I was playing around with some of the defensive audibles and then the CPU motioned some of their players and I got caught in a terrible coverage where Marvin Harrison was WIDE open for a score. I find that in EA games, it really doesn't matter too much what the offense does as long as I have enough DBs to cover the receivers in either zone or man, no one will get that wide open or "confuse" my defense. Players are usually all over the ball in EA games...the receivers just catch the ball anyway.


All this being said, I still think ESPN needs some work. I'll see what sliders people come up with in the next few weeks and I'll check out Madden to see if it's changed at all.

I'll try to get online sometime and hopefully play a few of you.

[FloridaGators]

Exactly what I was going to say er: scrambling.

Also agree with the menus and depth chart info. Madden's is simple. Hell, give us the kicking meter too. Kicking a FG in ESPN is money every time, no real difficulty to it.

Agreed. There is no real accuracy effect to the ESPN thing besides the wind.

There should be a distance, accuracy, and direction.

I doubt they will change this. It's a pet peeve of mine, like the ESPN basketball free throw system, which I despise.

Here's a bright spot of the ESPN series. Played an Exhibition game (me-Rams, CPU-Panthers)

The CPU's run to pass was 50-50. That is really a great sign after playing NCAA 2005 and it being 70-30 or 80-20 pass.

[FloridaGators]

<<<Speaking of which, when will they fix the kicking animations? They still look terrible and look like the kicker is putting no effort into the kick. Gee, I wish I could kick a 50+ yard FG without taking a back swing with my leg! Maybe that one will take 7 years. >>>

Agreed. Plus they have the laces wrong when they are kicking the ball. They need to suck up their pride and steal Madden's kicking system, as me and TCrouch have said.

[Alan_Bernardo]

>Is SD going to be running a no huddle this year? I was playing SD last night (don't remember who I was) and they were no huddling up the field...in the first quarter on their first posession!!"


I noticed this also. Playing the Browns against the Chargers, it was about the San Diego's third possession when they started to use the no-huddle. I just about fell out of my chair.

Since I didn't finish much of that game, I couldn't say whether they used it all game or not.

Overall, ESPN 2K5 is a decent game. Now they need to fix the online portion of the game.

I'll probably be skipping Madden again this year. I'm staying with the Sega line of sports games, all at $20.00

BTW, my gamertag is "Alanb" if anyone wants an easy win.

Alanb

[JRod]

I've run into a few problems so far.

- AI roster moves are pretty bonehead. I started a franchise with a new draft since its too early to start and try to have a "pure" football league. Warren Sapp return a K.O. WTF was that about.

- I don't know if this is a bug or something I'm pressing. But it seems if you call a defensive hot route and assign a DB to a WR he will run away from the WR as the play is going on. Maybe I pressed a wrong button or something but it doesn't look right just before the ball is snapped that he's running across the field away from the man he's intented to cover.

- Clipping penalty. Argh you actually need the clipping penalty in the game because if you set that slider to zero you will see some clips. That's the good thing about penalties but it messes up some stats.


Some complaints--
- Damn running is hard.

- Assigning defenders to WRS. I can select Champ Baily to cover Marvin Harrison, yet when I select a man-to-man play sometimes he will cover someone else. Maybe I can't read the play but geez, I want Bailey on Harrison all day yet sometimes I'll see him on a 3rd stringer. Give me a break.

- Sluggish response. Man I really hate games that you have to push down as hard as you can to get a response. I thought by now ESPN would have this solved.

-No AI assistence for training. Are you kidding me. That this is as deep as a hole to china but they didn't include the option to have the AI help out.

-Roster management. Again its harder than it has to be.

- Save/Load and franchises...did I miss something but why do I have to go through 5 screens just to load a franchise. Again harder than it should be.

- Controls aren't right for the Xbox. I don't know, its really tough to try an djoystick jockey your way around this game. I want to turbo then shoulder charge and its quite difficult for me to pull that off. Also the Juke and Stiffarms use the black/white/R-Stick. That's just plain hard to pull off quickly.

Things I like
Simmed stats are better. You can jump in and out of games although its not as pretty as MVP but its nice. And unlike last year when you sim out the rest of a game, you stats would be f'd.

Passing game is great. You really get a good feel for passing.

Games looks great close up, from far away you can't tell how good the models and animations look which is ashame. I wish there was more camera options. The custom camera is a good start.

There's more good stuff but you guys have said it all pretty well.