Forza 3 details leaked

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:39 pm

For what it's worth, early on I was finishing 3rd or 4th on hard, too...and I don't think I suck, personally. Maybe it's ego talking. It's just hard early on.

Then in the middle I started dominating races, but then it got really hard again once the higher series cars started coming free. If you want to just progress through the career, I don't think you should worry about racing on Hard. You'll get your fill of heavy competition online.

The AI on hard are REALLY fun to dice with, though.

Also, talk about bad luck--plugged in my wheel to play online for the first time with guys I knew last night and the pedals are broken. They don't register at all, so suddenly I'm wheel-less on the XBox 360. Ironic. First day of Forza being available and I have no wheel.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:52 pm

With the DSP racing crowd, if one of us makes a mistake and hits another, we know that's what it is. No intent, no malice, nobody who thinks it's a laugh. I don't get nervous racing any of you lot. With randoms, though...

Just about relatedly, anyone daft enough to download the ghost of my replay from a Class E World Championship race at Silverstone will notice a Fiat 500 weaving drunkenly across the track and then barrelling off the road at Stowe. This isn't crashing practice, but simply a man trying to work out why the act of driving down Hangar Straight - which is a bit tricky to avoid doing, what with how it joins two corners together and everything - automatically made his laps dirty and then forgetting to brake while he was at it.

This, the whole 'but why was that lap dirty?' thing, is still the only thing I can find to complain about in the entire game, and it's the more jarring for it, being quite broken when everything else about the game just works.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:02 pm

GB_Simo wrote:This, the whole 'but why was that lap dirty?' thing, is still the only thing I can find to complain about in the entire game, and it's the more jarring for it, being quite broken when everything else about the game just works.

Of course I am still going to get the game, but this is the type of thing that just gets at me and I can't let it go. I trust you and Terry's skill and knowledge, so I can't imagine it's just something you are missing. As a past dev and qa manager, I don't get how these kind of things make it into a game. It's either a really bad bug (somewhat excusable, and fixable), or actually a design decision (inexcusable, and possibly difficult to change). If it is a design decision, I just don't get it. It seems to defeat the purpose of what they were trying to implement with the whole dirty lap/clean lap concept to begin with.

On a side note, my gamestop does not have my copy that I pre-released with store pickup. What is the point of offering that option anyway if you are not going to be able to deliver. Oh well....

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:25 pm

The design decision was to avoid somebody cutting a corner for a fast lap time. You're forced to stick to the pavement, even through a chicane where you COULD cut it against the AI.

Quite frankly, I like it. It changed my mindset racing against CPU opponents, where I give them more room and go a little less kamikaze from race to race because I want my laps to register as clean.

The ONLY time it bugs me is when I get a dirty trigger and I can't figure out why. Typically it's because they stuck the invisible "barrier" out a little further than I knew. I tend to watch that little lap counter religiously now, though.

For what it's worth, I turned somewhere around a 7:20 lap at the full Nordschliefe course last night in an R2 car with a clean lap. I had wood near the end.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:27 pm

DChaps wrote:Of course I am still going to get the game, but this is the type of thing that just gets at me and I can't let it go. I trust you and Terry's skill and knowledge, so I can't imagine it's just something you are missing.

What's odd about it, Don, is that it can't be happening to everyone. There were plenty of clean laps of Silverstone on the leaderboard, just as there were plenty of clean laps of Motegi West when it was giving me dirty laps for either crossing the second timing point, braking for turn one or, on one memorable lap, both. I can understand the kerb-jumping ones - if the game thinks I'm being too aggressive when I don't, I'll have to change my lines and that's it - but the ones when I'm just driving down a straight defeat me, more so when they're clearly not affecting every lap by every player. They're also not caused by Terry's redlining suggestion in this case, since I made a point of lugging around at low revs for a lap and had it happen then too.

There comes a point, when I'm hassling an AI car for position or recovering from my latest bout of overenthusiasm, when I forget all about that, and I imagine it won't concern me if we get together on Live either. It's only really giving me trouble when I've got time to think about it.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:30 pm

TCrouch wrote:The design decision was to avoid somebody cutting a corner for a fast lap time. You're forced to stick to the pavement, even through a chicane where you COULD cut it against the AI.

Quite frankly, I like it. It changed my mindset racing against CPU opponents, where I give them more room and go a little less kamikaze from race to race because I want my laps to register as clean.

The ONLY time it bugs me is when I get a dirty trigger and I can't figure out why. Typically it's because they stuck the invisible "barrier" out a little further than I knew. I tend to watch that little lap counter religiously now, though.

I'm sure I boxed this off a second ago but I want to clarify anyway. I like the design decision for the same reasons as Terry. I don't like the screwy implementation; if I'm in the middle of the track, braking for a corner with no car near me and the dirty lap icon flashes on next to the counter (yup, I'm watching religiously too, to identify the hotspots and see if I'm going mad or not), then that's not right at all.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:32 pm

Keep an eye on it when you lock up the brakes or lose traction...

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:47 pm

I completely understand what they are "trying" to do with the concept, and I am all for that. It just seems like it is botched if you guys can't tell why you are receiving dirty laps and there is no consitency to it. GPL Replay Analyser with GPL Rank did a great job of determining a good or bad lap. More than two wheels off the given track space (kerbs and all), and it would not register. I always knew pretty quickly why I did not register a clean lap. This sounds like a crap shoot, but I guess I will not worry about it when I can't even play the game yet. Arrgghh...

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 6:52 pm

Talk on the official forums suggests my issues might be to do with drafting. That's possible - perhaps my braking early for Motegi's first turn lets the AI catch me while still going quickly enough for the game to think they're drafting, and maybe the second timing point at Motegi is the point at which the same thing happens down the back straight (Terry, that's 4th gear and still accelerating in the little Fiat 500, so it's not a traction or brake locking issue, at least in that instance).

I can't for the life of me remember whether there was someone close behind me at Silverstone, mind, though I do recall getting the warning triangle when I was off line but still very much on the racetrack passing the pit exit one lap and can't imagine anyone else was taking the same line I was. Still, I'll keep an eye on that.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:59 pm

GB_Simo wrote:Talk on the official forums suggests my issues might be to do with drafting. That's possible - perhaps my braking early for Motegi's first turn lets the AI catch me while still going quickly enough for the game to think they're drafting, and maybe the second timing point at Motegi is the point at which the same thing happens down the back straight (Terry, that's 4th gear and still accelerating in the little Fiat 500, so it's not a traction or brake locking issue, at least in that instance).

Pardon my ignorance of the sport, but what would be 'dirty' in this instance? Allowing someone to draft? Braking (causing impact) while someone was drafting you? Were you actually hit?

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:35 pm

Web, drafting isn't inherently dirty but it gives a speed advantage to all the cars involved - the car in front being pushed along a little, the cars behind being towed along, all going a little faster down the straights as a result. With that in mind, and assuming the system does disallow it, then it makes sense; Turn 10 presumably wanted to disallow any lap that wasn't purely the result of driver skill.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:24 pm

Ah, so not 'dirty' so much as a time aid...gotcha. I thought I was missing some odd drafting etiquette or something.

Thanks!

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:38 pm

I played a little bit with the controller last night, and it felt a little bit like a slog with those first few races with underpowered cars, having to get from 8th to first in 3 puny laps on half-mile tracks.

Played a little more with the wheel tonight and slightly more powerful cars, and wow, the control is sublime.

I usually SUCK with the wheel, but this control is so good I have to stick with it and maybe I'll finally learn to love the XBOX wheel.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:47 pm

Most beautiful car racing game I've ever seen. All of the exterior and interior modeling is incredible. I actually felt a bit guilty when I wrecked an Enzo:)

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:00 pm

Mac, it's the first game I've played that's made me want to use the photo mode. Whenever something even slightly interesting happens, I'm snapping a picture just so I can come back and stare at it later. Photorealism it's not, but it looks fantastic.

Don, those dirty laps I was griping about where I got warnings on the straights were definitely because of drafting. After seeing everyone on my friends list except me had upgraded their Ford Focus RS (my daily driver in the real world is an '06 Focus, and this game has forced home with me how much I'd like to hang the bank balance and grab the RS...), I duly did the same with mine and found I could drive away from the AI on the straights. Once I'd got away from them, no warnings. The downside to the upgrade is that it's made winning with that car a lot easier, and I kind of miss feeling all heroic in the inferior pre-upgrade version.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:34 am

Agree about the photo mode, very nicely done. Shift was the first game that I really enjoyed driving from the cockpit view and with this game I may just stay in there the whole time.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:43 am

I had a fun time racing with Mix and Fshguy last night. If anyone wants to do some DSP online racing I'm always game.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:21 pm

I finally picked up my copy last night and barely got into it, but I was wondering if anyone has figured out the leaderboards. In the first career race, I was in a default Honda Fit with no tuning or upgrades in advanced difficulty (only ABS and no clutch for aids). I think I ran a clean race (could not figure out how to tell), and finished 6th. When I looked at the leaderboards and filtered it down to my friends list, it appeared to show me in first (ahead of Terry and Adam no less), even though the time I posted was actually slower than just about everyone in my friends list. Maybe it was not actually a ranking, but it did tell me I was in the top 1% of the list. Weird.

mixdj1 · Post by **mixdj1** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:29 pm

Fshguy and I did an experiment on Wednesday night with regards to the end of race procedure. I let Fshguy lap me and after he finished when I crossed the finish line it didn't end with me +1 but instead forced me to go ahead and finish all of my laps.

For all of the other details they got into the game it amazes me that they don't understand how a race should end. Everything else about it is awesome though.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:32 pm

macsomjrr wrote:Most beautiful car racing game I've ever seen. All of the exterior and interior modeling is incredible.

There's no doubt about that...it was awesome driving my own car around the track (IS300). The interior is modeled perfectly. I didn't feel guilty wrecking it either...that's the time to do it!

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:08 pm

DChaps wrote:I finally picked up my copy last night and barely got into it, but I was wondering if anyone has figured out the leaderboards. In the first career race, I was in a default Honda Fit with no tuning or upgrades in advanced difficulty (only ABS and no clutch for aids). I think I ran a clean race (could not figure out how to tell), and finished 6th. When I looked at the leaderboards and filtered it down to my friends list, it appeared to show me in first (ahead of Terry and Adam no less), even though the time I posted was actually slower than just about everyone in my friends list. Maybe it was not actually a ranking, but it did tell me I was in the top 1% of the list. Weird.

It may be that you ran a perfectly clean race while we didn't. Especially early on, when those are only 2 lappers, the chance of getting through the pack without touching, drafting, or otherwise inhibiting another car is pretty slim. You can see a little triangle with an exclamation point in it at the end of "dirty laps". In the early races, I was just trying to win and not caring whether or not the lap was clean. Your lap probably was.

Teal · Post by **Teal** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 2:36 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
macsomjrr wrote:Most beautiful car racing game I've ever seen. All of the exterior and interior modeling is incredible.
There's no doubt about that...it was awesome driving my own car around the track (IS300). The interior is modeled perfectly. I didn't feel guilty wrecking it either...that's the time to do it!

Yeah, until you look out the side 'windows' and realize there's not a window, or a door, or...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:02 pm

Okay, I'll adjust...the dash and instrument cluster is perfect.

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:28 pm

How are folks approaching this from single player? One of my problems with Forza has always been that it's easy to outclass the AI competition, particularly in the lower classes. Just upgrade and you can run circles around the other cars, even on the hardest settings (I'm playing on hardest AI and all aids off except not using the clutch). I find it satisfying not being the best car and coming in 2nd or 3rd as I drive my balls off trying to win, but even then it's often a 3 car race. I long for more competitive and balanced AI performers.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:55 pm

F308GTB wrote:How are folks approaching this from single player? One of my problems with Forza has always been that it's easy to outclass the AI competition, particularly in the lower classes. Just upgrade and you can run circles around the other cars, even on the hardest settings (I'm playing on hardest AI and all aids off except not using the clutch). I find it satisfying not being the best car and coming in 2nd or 3rd as I drive my balls off trying to win, but even then it's often a 3 car race. I long for more competitive and balanced AI performers.

Thus far, I am playing on medium AI.

It's a little unfortunate because on medium I WILL win as long as I don't blow it, and yet on hard I struggle to finish higher than 5th. I plan on progressing for a while on medium, then re-evaluating what I want to do with the game.