FIFA 08 (360) Impressions

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:59 am

worth getting though?

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:02 am

Zlax45 wrote:worth getting though?

Absolutely.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:54 am

seanmac31 wrote:
Zlax45 wrote:worth getting though?
Absolutely.

I agree with Sean it's worth getting this year. Try and buy it from ToysRUs. They still have the buy 2 get 1 free. That's how I got FIFA 08 for $40. I think the sale ends tomorrow.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:57 am

Double post...arrgh.

**edit** The ToysRUS buy 2 get 1 free ended Oct 20th.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:18 pm

Rent first...

The game has two faces. Cook from OS said it best...
"All I can say is that I never thought I would enjoy getting an ulcer and high blood pressure so much, I can have so much fun with this game and then the next instant be completley frustrated with it. "

That sums up FIFA.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:35 pm

I think its been two weeks since the release of FIFA and I thought I would post some extended play thoughts about FIFA.

Let me give the WE versus FIFA debate some fuel here. I have not played PES 2007 or whatever the new version is called. I don't know how good the 360 or PS3 version is.

After close to the 70 games of FIFA I've played or atleast that's been counted by FIFA, I think FIFA is equal to WE. Yes, that's what I said, FIFA has finally caught up to WE on the pitch.

I'm not going to make a long post because I don't have the time right now but let me touch on a few things.

-Goals in FIFA look like the real thing. Download a show like Match of the Day, the BBC's show highlighting all the EPL action and you'll see just how close FIFA's goals look to the real thing.

- Player differences: I don't think any game has ever done team playing styles correctly. I think FIFA's player model system is equal to WE. WE does some things better and FIFA does some things better. But there are things that should show in a football game regarding abilities. FIFA has many key ones that you can tell. Heading, player size, dribbling, movement, long shots, FK specialists, tackles, speed. There are more that really stand out. Morten Gamst Pederson for Blackburn is rated in the 90s for free kicks. Do not make the mistake of giving him a close FK late in the game. Ronaldo can dribble around anyone. When you can tell the difference between Saha and Rooney that's huge for a game.

-Controls: All I can say is they take a while to get familar with them. While there is a slight delay where an animation might have to finish before you can pass or shoot, there are times that the controls allow you to do some very sweet moves. I'm not even talking about the right stick. Last night, in a game with Man, I scored to sweet Rooney's goals where I was able to ever so slightly shift the ball to another foot, forcing the GK to make a bad dive for the easy score. I forgot to save it. All I can say is left-trigger is key in this game. There's also a body control engine that is different and more complex than WE.

I might explain in more detail some of what FIFA does so well and things that need to improve. However, right now FIFA isn't a bad game. In fact, after you understand the engine and controls, for me it feels more complex than WE. But what really impresses me is how satisfying scoring a goal is. It's much more satisfying than WE.

Overall, unless a shoe drops on FIFA, its in my list of best sports game of the year.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:27 pm

JRod wrote: After close to the 70 games of FIFA I've played or atleast that's been counted by FIFA, I think FIFA is equal to WE. Yes, that's what I said, FIFA has finally caught up to WE on the pitch.

Overall, unless a shoe drops on FIFA, its in my list of best sports game of the year.

ZOMG !

When did the revelation hit? I know you have been a WE fan but did something just click with FIFA or was it a gradual thing, just curious? Have you played the PES 2008 demo on the 360?

I have played more with it and while I like it after playing more FIFA 08 the speed in PES 2008 becomes a glaring problem as others have mentioned. It's way too fast and looks like a game of ping pong. Also the animations are still what we have seen the past several iterations going back to ESPN MLS Extra Time going back to the PS2 and Xbox.

I do like FIFA but i'm not ready to give it GOTY because PES still does a lot of things right especially when it comes to the AI. It's still more advanced than FIFA's.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:28 pm

j/k JRod

, nice post.

One thing I really enjoyed in a game today was figuring out to use Blanco on the attack as the Chicago Fire. Once I figured out where and how to use him, the offensive end opened up completely and the Fire dominated the rest of the way. That was one of the first moments an individual player really stood out for me.

Oh yeah, anyone know if there is a way to play an individual season? Not sure I have the time for Manager Mode but still want to play through an EPL and MLS season.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:32 pm

If anyone is up for a game tonight drop me a request.

gamertag: Rodster360

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:35 pm

Although the 08 version does so many things right for Fifa, I still prefer the overall gameplay engine of PES. But if konami keeps resting on its laurels, next year it's a totally new ball game. With Fifa I have problems scoring from say 20 to 30 yards outside the goalkeeper's area, but I had some beauties as well.

If you like soccer, you ought to at least give it a rental.

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:42 pm

JRod wrote:I think its been two weeks since the release of FIFA and I thought I would post some extended play thoughts about FIFA.

Let me give the WE versus FIFA debate some fuel here. I have not played PES 2007 or whatever the new version is called. I don't know how good the 360 or PS3 version is.

After close to the 70 games of FIFA I've played or atleast that's been counted by FIFA, I think FIFA is equal to WE. Yes, that's what I said, FIFA has finally caught up to WE on the pitch.

I'm not going to make a long post because I don't have the time right now but let me touch on a few things.

-Goals in FIFA look like the real thing. Download a show like Match of the Day, the BBC's show highlighting all the EPL action and you'll see just how close FIFA's goals look to the real thing.

- Player differences: I don't think any game has ever done team playing styles correctly. I think FIFA's player model system is equal to WE. WE does some things better and FIFA does some things better. But there are things that should show in a football game regarding abilities. FIFA has many key ones that you can tell. Heading, player size, dribbling, movement, long shots, FK specialists, tackles, speed. There are more that really stand out. Morten Gamst Pederson for Blackburn is rated in the 90s for free kicks. Do not make the mistake of giving him a close FK late in the game. Ronaldo can dribble around anyone. When you can tell the difference between Saha and Rooney that's huge for a game.

-Controls: All I can say is they take a while to get familar with them. While there is a slight delay where an animation might have to finish before you can pass or shoot, there are times that the controls allow you to do some very sweet moves. I'm not even talking about the right stick. Last night, in a game with Man, I scored to sweet Rooney's goals where I was able to ever so slightly shift the ball to another foot, forcing the GK to make a bad dive for the easy score. I forgot to save it. All I can say is left-trigger is key in this game. There's also a body control engine that is different and more complex than WE.

I might explain in more detail some of what FIFA does so well and things that need to improve. However, right now FIFA isn't a bad game. In fact, after you understand the engine and controls, for me it feels more complex than WE. But what really impresses me is how satisfying scoring a goal is. It's much more satisfying than WE.

Overall, unless a shoe drops on FIFA, its in my list of best sports game of the year.

I agree with all of this. Actually, I'd have to say FIFA would be my choice for GOY, seeing as the other obvious candidate (NHL 08) has been gathering dust since FIFA came out.

As a game engine to be enjoyed during multiplayer play, I don't think FIFA can be touched. There is just so much freedom in the way you can move the ball and break down a defense. You can also use real tactics to counter your opponent, which is all I ask for out of any sports simulation. For instance, what you see a lot of online are people who use Barcalona and spend the entire game running two players at you whenever you've got the ball in your own end. I was backpassing and moving the ball around to attack the space and doing it effectively, but if you mess up with a pass once or twice a game (and a little lag can really screw up your timing), you're looking at conceding two close in shots on goal, at least one of which will go through. So I decided to switch up and use a ballhandling defender to split the double team. I've recently gone to Bayern to counter the Barcalona-ness (27 straight matches against and counting), and let's just say the double teaming hasn't been a problem; Lucio just eats it up, moves into the midfield and sparks the attack.

Dribbling is a joy, the trick moves are effective when you pick your spots without being overdone, passing is terrific and highly customizable, and the play around the goal is spot on. Basically, if you like soccer and you have an Xbox Live account, you really should own FIFA.

Post by **Jared** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:53 pm

Sorry, but I disagree with a lot of this post.

JRod wrote: -Goals in FIFA look like the real thing. Download a show like Match of the Day, the BBC's show highlighting all the EPL action and you'll see just how close FIFA's goals look to the real thing.

Most shots on goal that go in the goal look like the real thing. But any goals off crosses don't at all look realistic. Crosses don't have any pace to them, and aerial battles seem to end with with an attacker and a defender running to a spot, both jumping straight up, and heading it in. There's no groups of players making runs in the box, no real physical play or jostling. To me, it's pretty unrealistic.

(Oh, and for shots that are saved, there are far too many saves on low shots that are parried up and over the bar....something that you rarely see in real life.)

- Player differences: I don't think any game has ever done team playing styles correctly. I think FIFA's player model system is equal to WE. WE does some things better and FIFA does some things better. But there are things that should show in a football game regarding abilities. FIFA has many key ones that you can tell. Heading, player size, dribbling, movement, long shots, FK specialists, tackles, speed. There are more that really stand out. Morten Gamst Pederson for Blackburn is rated in the 90s for free kicks. Do not make the mistake of giving him a close FK late in the game. Ronaldo can dribble around anyone. When you can tell the difference between Saha and Rooney that's huge for a game.

Free kick specialists? I've had (and seen) the same success on free kicks with poor teams in the Polish league as with the game's free kick specialists. I've actually been surprised with how easy it is to get free kicks with some of the poorer teams in the game.

There are some differences in dribbling, though the lack of responsiveness minimizes those differences for the user. And dribbilng is one of those things where there should be CLEAR differences between stars and poor players. Furthermore, there doesn't seem to be much of a representation of player acceleration, which is big for dribbling. There are more things that I can go into...but even though FIFA has improved, WE is still MUCH better at modeling player differences than FIFA.

-Controls: All I can say is they take a while to get familar with them. While there is a slight delay where an animation might have to finish before you can pass or shoot, there are times that the controls allow you to do some very sweet moves. I'm not even talking about the right stick. Last night, in a game with Man, I scored to sweet Rooney's goals where I was able to ever so slightly shift the ball to another foot, forcing the GK to make a bad dive for the easy score. I forgot to save it. All I can say is left-trigger is key in this game. There's also a body control engine that is different and more complex than WE.

The slight delay, to me, is more than slight. It's highly noticeable, and can be very frustrating, especially when trying to control the ball when covered. Furthermore, there are times with the controls where you press the pass button for a one-time pass and instead the game engine decides you need to trap first, then pass. (And speaking about passing and controls...it's poor. At times, passes arrive to players too slowly, there is absolutely no intelligence in placing through balls, and crosses are entirely too slow.)

One thing I haven't done is used the left-trigger often...so I'll try that. And as for the body control engine...I think that WE's engine is much more complex, as seen in shooting and crossing. In WE, player position relative to the ball is crucial in getting off a solid shot or cross (if you're leaning back, turned away, or off-balance, you don't get as much on the shot). I'm not seeing nearly this amount of interaction in FIFA.

I might explain in more detail some of what FIFA does so well and things that need to improve. However, right now FIFA isn't a bad game. In fact, after you understand the engine and controls, for me it feels more complex than WE. But what really impresses me is how satisfying scoring a goal is. It's much more satisfying than WE.

Overall, unless a shoe drops on FIFA, its in my list of best sports game of the year.

I don't think FIFA is a bad game. However, I think it's an average game with a lot of flaws. To me, FIFA tends to get a pass because of the improvements compared to previous iterations of FIFA. But comparing it to WE (even the PES 2008 demo), it's still not as good.

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:19 pm

If you're not using the left trigger much, then you're really not playing the game. It's that important.

(And I just cannot begin to see what people are enjoying in the PES demo. I'm literally baffled. It's really poor.)

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:02 pm

Jared wrote:To me, FIFA tends to get a pass because of the improvements compared to previous iterations of FIFA. But comparing it to WE (even the PES 2008 demo), it's still not as good.

I don't know about that. This is prime release season and see people on XBL playing FIFA as much as anything. I can maybe see people giving it a pass as far as not slamming it on a message boards, but I doubt people would be playing an average game this much just because it's better than last year. I know it's the game I've been popping in more than any other lately despite the fact that I have a large stack of games sitting here. I wouldn't trade my copy of FIFA straight up for the new PES if it was available right now based on my time with the demo.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:36 am

Jared,

Interstingly I agree with almost every one of your points with the exception of your conclusion.

To me at least the gap between FIFA and WE has narrowed to the point where they are nearly neck-and-neck. Both have their share of gameplay quirks, although I agree that FIFA has more than WE. But FIFA has piled on so many features at this point that it's starting to make WE look like a budget title. Why should I pay the same price for a game that lacks significant licenses, has laggy and archaic online support, sub-par graphics and a front end straight out of the original Playstation?

At some point you have to take these matters into account when evaluating the game as a whole. Gameplay may be king, but it's not an absolute monarch. I'm frustrated with many things in FIFA, but I was frustrated with nearly the same number of things in WE last year. I had a list a mile long of areas where they had failed to advance in years, or even regressed in some cases.

I'm sorry. The gameplay gap is closing, and nothing Konami has ever done with this franchise gives me confidence that they're going to do anything to reverse the trend. I dearly wish that they would, but whether it's due to financial constraints or willing disregard, it seems that they are content to nibble around the edges of their problems and let EA catch up.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:52 am

seanmac31 wrote:If you're not using the left trigger much, then you're really not playing the game. It's that important.

(And I just cannot begin to see what people are enjoying in the PES demo. I'm literally baffled. It's really poor.)

What does the left trigger do then? I hate the dribbling i cant beat a man just run straight into a defender who takes the ball off you too easily there arnt any moves at pace to beat a man throw in the game decides to take touches for you or not to execute a button press makes it seem like your not even controling anything.
The worst one is when you have your player arrow on a guy chasing down a lose ball and he decides to give up on it even tho im controling him.
This control scheme drives me batty i so want to enjoy the game as it would be great if it wasnt for some realy bad decisions made for you by the animations or development team.

I only play my brother on line overseas and all we do is end up bitching at it the whole game.
"why did he chest that in the area with 4 defenders round him"
" pass the damn ball will yeh"
"CROSS IT !!!!!"
"HEAD IT!!!!"
"DONT STOP DICKHEAD"
f*** this game. Its so close but still so far.

Edit , i just wanna add that Soccer games need a seperate header button, Fifa would be so much more enjoyable with one .
Let me decide if it was a bad decision to head the ball or not.
If a hockey game can have a wrist shot button and a slap shot button then soccer can too.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:44 am

Jimmydeicide wrote:What does the left trigger do then? I hate the dribbling i cant beat a man just run straight into a defender who takes the ball off you too easily there arnt any moves at pace to beat a man throw in the game decides to take touches for you or not to execute a button press makes it seem like your not even controling anything.

Jimmy maybe this might help. I have gotten better at moving the ball up the pitch. What I do is I try and pass into open space and allow for a buildup of my guys. The more I pass the better chance I have of seeing more of my guys in their end and a better chance to score. I rarely get beat off a dribble now because the guy with the ball is usually going away from the defender and if he starts to pressure my guy i'll just drop it off to another one of my guys. It's very cool to watch. We asked EA to make FIFA more sim and therefore I guess the days are gone of zipping the ball up the pitch with little hassle.

I also don't have any problems stripping the ball from the CPU as well. Probably do to the fact i've been playing FIFA since 97.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:24 am

Control responsiveness is an issue with FIFA. To some extent once you get used to it you can compensate - but it really should be more responsive in the first place. Dribbling around players is quite difficult and part of the reason I think is that most of the camera angles make it difficult to judge how much room there is. Combine that with the responsiveness of the controls and the general cramped nature of the pitch (much more room in PES) and its generally more difficult to dribble around defenders (particularly poor ones) with top players than it should be. This is something that Konami have always excelled at and I wish EA would copy that - they've pretty much copied everything else!

However, FIFA has made impressive strides and I think has come close enough to PES in gameplay that PES will suffer badly if Konami don't get off their asses and improve the bloody game. What's worse is that Konami actually seem to be going backwards so the game is becoming more arcady - while stripping the already bare minimum of options from the next gen versions. And that's to say nothing of the essentially wrecked ML where they've managed to not include manual kit selection (ooh, white against white!) and introducted a killer bug that crashes the game in the second match of the ML cup.

One game shows signs of signficant improvement while the other game is clearly struggling - EA are trying hard (and succeeding to an impressive extent) while Konami are sitting on their asses. The level of disgust with Konami is significantly higher this year as evidenced by visits to PES fan and evo-web.

Best wishes,

Doug

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:42 am

dougb wrote: One game shows signs of signficant improvement while the other game is clearly struggling - EA are trying hard (and succeeding to an impressive extent) while Konami are sitting on their asses. The level of disgust with Konami is significantly higher this year as evidenced by visits to PES fan and evo-web.

Best wishes,

Doug

Next year could be a make or break for PES2009 if they pull the same effort as they did this year and if FIFA adds refinements and more improvements next year. I must say I have been rather impressed with EA Sports lately sans Madden and NCAA Football. Their other franchises have been making steady improvements including the turd formerly known as NBA Live 07. Even that game has made strides so definite kudos to EA.

dougb · Post by **dougb** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:05 pm

Rodster wrote:
dougb wrote: One game shows signs of signficant improvement while the other game is clearly struggling - EA are trying hard (and succeeding to an impressive extent) while Konami are sitting on their asses. The level of disgust with Konami is significantly higher this year as evidenced by visits to PES fan and evo-web.

Best wishes,

Doug
Next year could be a make or break for PES2009 if they pull the same effort as they did this year and if FIFA adds refinements and more improvements next year. I must say I have been rather impressed with EA Sports lately sans Madden and NCAA Football. Their other franchises have been making steady improvements including the turd formerly known as NBA Live 07. Even that game has made strides so definite kudos to EA.

And that's the key. EA have received well-deserved broadsides for their lack of effort in the past - I was absolutely disgusted with the lack of effort that went into the PC version of Fifa 08. So I think that they do deserve credit where there is evidence of effort and progress.

I agree that O9, and to some extent their willingness to patch problems with PES 2008, will be key for the Pro Evo and Winning Eleven series. Another fiasco like this years release has initially been, combined with continued improvement in FIFA, could well result in a large number of Pro Evo fans leaving.

Best wishes,

Doug

Best wishes,

Doug

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:20 pm

Wanted to respond to you guys before I made another post in detail about FIFA.

Rodster

When did the revelation hit? I know you have been a WE fan but did something just click with FIFA or was it a gradual thing, just curious? Have you played the PES 2008 demo on the 360?

I played the demo and the speed didn't really bother me. Neither did the slowness of FIFA. I just stayed with FIFA and started to see what's under the hood.

Dave

Oh yeah, anyone know if there is a way to play an individual season? Not sure I have the time for Manager Mode but still want to play through an EPL and MLS season

There sure is a way to play a season. It's kind of hidden. Go to Tournaments then select the cup for the Barclay's Premeirship. That should allow you to play a season.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:21 pm

dougb wrote: And that's the key. EA have received well-deserved broadsides for their lack of effort in the past - .I was absolutely disgusted with the lack of effort that went into the PC version of Fifa 08. So I think that they do deserve credit where there is evidence of effort and progress.

Best wishes,

Doug

Thank goodness for the alternative sites. I quickly found out that Tiger 08, NHL 08, FIFA 08, NBA Live 08 were not even worth the download. They were all off my hard drive permanently within 2 days. Actually Tiger 08 broke the record. It was off with 10 minutes. It looks like EA is just concentrating on the consoles rather than the PC's. Hopefully when Vista gains some traction we'll see the PC versions match if not exceed what's out on the PS360.

Post by **Jared** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:32 pm

Rob,

I really like all of the features in FIFA; the existence of online leagues, interactive leagues, Be a Pro mode, the existence of a manager mode that isn't the played out master league, the inclusion of all the smaller leagues and 2nd divisions, and all of the licensing (although Konami can't get the Premier League or Bundesliga since they're exclusives, so I can't hold that against them). These are all omissions that have always frustrated me about WE, and will continue to frustrate me for...I don't know. Forever, perhaps?

BUT in the gameplay department, FIFA (although it has improved a lot) still isn't as good as Winning Eleven 10 or any of the WE games going back to WE 7. Even comparing FIFA to the PES 2008 demo (which, if it's reflective of the real game, is possibly the worse WE title I've played), PES is a little better in the gameplay department. Of course, I'm one of those absolute monarch guys with regards to gameplay in a soccer game. Or maybe benevolent dictator is a better term.

And I don't want any of this to be taken as knocking the FIFA series. I think EA has made great strides and FIFA 2009 COULD be a very good to excellent title. FIFA is starting to close the gap on the WE series. And Konami has to get things together. If the gameplay keeps taking steps backwards, then they will be toast.

(Oh, and one last thing...I went back and played a few games trying to use the left trigger a lot. I don't see how it revolutionizes the game...I can do some fancy ball stuff with it...but is there anything else that I'm missing. I'm also playing with some pretty obscure teams, so it's possible that they don't have the skillz to make the left trigger-right stick combo all that important.)

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:18 pm

Umm the left rigger isn't revolutionary as much as it is neccessary to play FIFA.

I liken it to Vision Control in NHL. It seems like it doesn't do much but you really need to use it.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:16 pm

Fifa is going no where if they cant give me control i need of my team.
And vision control is hardly a neccessity for NHL.