OT:Smart Phones

[Aristo]

We knew this was going to be the case. I can't blame Microsoft for not wanting a bunch nerds complaining about WP8 because they put it on a phone that can't deal with it. It's better than Apple, since their updates turned my wife's 3GS into piece of crap.

We keep phones for two years, max. I think that if we like the phone now, we will like it later, and look forward to the upgrade for new stuff. Turns out, my upgrade is in January. So I will look at the new WP8 phones then.

Hopefully my Quantum will still function.

[Aristo]

Looks like WP7.5 will go to WP7.8. Microsoft is porting over the new Start screen.

I'm betting other stuff will come, too.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2012/06/ ... nt-phones/

[dbdynsty25]

We knew this was going to be the case. I can't blame Microsoft for not wanting a bunch nerds complaining about WP8 because they put it on a phone that can't deal with it. It's better than Apple, since their updates turned my wife's 3GS into piece of crap.

Yes but that completely contradicts everything Microsoft was saying from the get go with WP7. They made it a mandate that all devices are the same spec wise so you don't get fragmentation, bla bla bla...now they completely fragmented the market on themselves because they knew they F'd up. Just a few months ago they said a few phones WOULDN'T get the update to 8...now they are saying NONE of them will. The Lumia 900 which they said "you are not a beta tester" in all of their promotional material is completely the the opposite...that's exactly what the buyers of that phone were knowing that software wise, it's stuck forever. Has nothing to do with nerd rage or whatever, it's a miscalculation and just one of many for a platform that has been lackluster from the start.

No one can trust them basically. You may, but from a tech industry standpoint, they are on thin ice. I can't believe you'd even think about agreeing and supporting this...blind loyalty or something. I just don't get it.

[Teal]

I have a WP7. When I upgrade, I'll get a WP8. I was going to upgrade to the Lumia, but my contract ends after the WP8 is released, so I can wait. BUT, if I could upgrade now, I would still get a Lumia. Why? Because I don't care about all that stuff. Yeah, it's the 'new cool' and all, but I don't go out buying the 'new cool' just because it's new and it's cool. I'll get a WP8, and I'll get the Surface. They're more in line with what I want than iProducts ever really have been.

[dbdynsty25]

I have a WP7. When I upgrade, I'll get a WP8. I was going to upgrade to the Lumia, but my contract ends after the WP8 is released, so I can wait. BUT, if I could upgrade now, I would still get a Lumia. Why? Because I don't care about all that stuff. Yeah, it's the 'new cool' and all, but I don't go out buying the 'new cool' just because it's new and it's cool. I'll get a WP8, and I'll get the Surface. They're more in line with what I want than iProducts ever really have been.

The problem is that a lot of people DO care about new and cool. Hell, that's what Apple built an entire business on. You're in the minority if you say you don't want the latest and greatest when you're spending 100-200 bucks to upgrade your phone. Most basic smartphone users will go to someone who knows a little bit about phones to ask them what they should be buying. What's the best...what's gonna last me a long time...etc. Do you think the "tech consultant" is going to say go with a Windows Phone for the next five months before WP8 is released? Absolutely not. New and cool sells...that's just fact.

You're 100% right, there is a segment of the market that doesn't care and won't ask anyone...definitely a minority and it won't sell phones and won't win marketshare.

[Aristo]

Blind loyalty? I have an iPad, iMac, and Macbook. You'd think I would just be humping my new iPhone.

I pick up what works for me. As much as I appreciate your analysis of different tech, your needs could not be farther from mine. And I think you are in the vast minority of consumers. I mean, there are a ton of you that post to forums, but most people buy a phone to do their basic stuff.

Now that smartphones have become standard, that means phone calls, texting, internet and email, music, and a camera. If their phone does that, some geek banging the drum about WP8 or Blueberry Bomb Pop means nothing until the day they walk in to their store to buy an upgrade.

Apple iPhones would be better if they handled upgrades the same way. My wife loved her iPhone 3GS until Apple "improved" by upgrading the OS. She gets her phone from work, so she was happy to upgrade to the 4s. And she's be happy until Apple upgrades the OS and kills her current phone.

I can't believe you think that is better?

[dbdynsty25]

Apple iPhones would be better if they handled upgrades the same way. My wife loved her iPhone 3GS until Apple "improved" by upgrading the OS. She gets her phone from work, so she was happy to upgrade to the 4s. And she's be happy until Apple upgrades the OS and kills her current phone.

I can't believe you think that is better?

I don't own an iPhone. So the upgrade path is irrelevant to me. Plus you're talking about 3 year old phones not upgrading correctly not something that was released six months before the new software drops. HUGE difference.

And I am in the minority of people who actually give a sh*t about my phone...yes, but I get questions DAILY about what phone to buy by guys/gals like you who don't care nearly as much as me, or even you. Do you think I'm going to have them get a phone now that won't be able to run the newest software when it comes out in three months? That's ludicrous.

Now I may just be a geek banging a drum but I've got a list a mile long (some even from this very forum) asking me for advice about what phone to buy. Sometimes it's an iPhone even (blasphemy)...but I give them advice based on how THEY will use their phone not me. I ask questions and recommend based on the answers. Not one time have I recommended a Windows phone. There's hasn't been a reason to in the past and for the next four months or however long it is till WP8 comes out there REALLY isn't a reason to recommend one. That could very well change when it's released and I'll evaluate it at the time. But for now I'll go back to my Android/Apple drum.

[XXXIV]

Here is a db question. Now that its available to me, do I really need to upgrade my Galaxy S2 to ice cream sandwich? What will I be gaining?

Its pretty kick ass as is. Ill hang up an listen to my answer.

[dbdynsty25]

Here is a db question. Now that its available to me, do I really need to upgrade my Galaxy S2 to ice cream sandwich? What will I be gaining?

Its pretty kick ass as is. Ill hang up an listen to my answer.

The first two points are most important: battery life and speed should both increase...especially the speed. Lots of UI customization options, swiping notifications instead of having to clear them, etc. Here's a good rundown. Only real difference is that the ICS phone (Galaxy Nexus) doens't have hardware buttons, so you won't see those options on screen you'll just use your buttons as you currently do.

In short...no bigger upgrade has ever been done to software in a phone before. The speed enhancements alone (not that the GSII is slow mind you) are worth the effort to upgrade. Do it.

[XXXIV]

Thank you sir.

[DChaps]

True story: A few weeks ago I was driving down to a Braves game with my brother and some friends. They have iPhones (at least one of them was a 4S, not sure on the others). I think their carriers were AT&T and Verizon. I have a Samsung Galaxy S through T-Mobile. We were stuck in traffic on 285 and got into some discussions that required searching the web for answers. Every single time I was the fastest to have an answer using Google Search. We then needed directions to a pizza place. The default telenav GPS that came free on my phone had us headed with turn by turn voice directions in less than a minute. My brother was using Siri and it had not even found the name of the place yet, let alone the actual directions to get there. There was also a discussion about a Michael Scott quote from The Office, and I had the episode and scene queued up and playing on Netflix before the iPhone users had found sites that had episode scripts to read the quote from. It became a competition as we sat there in traffic. Oh yeah, I even had a Skype call with my son (he was on the laptop at home). The main thing that they were "beating" me in were iPhone only applications/games that I just don't have (although similar ones may exist). A very cool movie editor, Band In a Box, Infinity Blade, Jetpack Joyride, Deadspace, Real Racing 2, Draw Race, etc. On sheer speed/performance, my phone seemed to "win" hands down. This is a standard Galaxy S with no OS upgrades, although I have reset it twice in the last year. People keep telling me TMobile's 4G in Atlanta sucks, but at least for me it has been great. Granted, if we were all connected to the same Wi-Fi somewhere, the performance issues would possibly be a moot point, but nonetheless it was an interesting scenario since they considered me the one with the inferior phone.

Edit: Changed the last sentence, as the actual comment was "iPhones are so much better than Android phones. Why did you get an Android?".

[dbdynsty25]

but nonetheless it was an interesting scenario since they considered me the one with inferior technology.

Well that's just 100% wrong. It may be more difficult to use for novice users, but Android has always been more advanced than an iPhone. That's not debatable really. Apple's been playing feature catch-up since Day 1. That said, complete package wise, the iPhone is tough to beat. Really jealous of that camera as my Galaxy Nexus has one flaw in my mind...the camera. It's average at best.

[XXXIV]

the camera. It's average at best.

My S II camera put my other camera to bed.

I have played out similar scenarios as Don has with iphone users. Good times.

[dbdynsty25]

Yeah the SII camera is pretty good as well...which is why it was pretty surprising that the Nexus, which essentially is a GSII had such a poor camera implemented. It's all because they wanted to get that burst mode and panorama stuff included. Stuff that isn't on the GSII as far as I know, but is on the GSIII and the HTC One X/S. Oh well...I'm still on stock ICS which is the most important thing. Also the reason I probably won't get a GSIII. But that's subject to change at any moment once they are actually available in store.

[Aristo]

Apple iPhones would be better if they handled upgrades the same way. My wife loved her iPhone 3GS until Apple "improved" by upgrading the OS. She gets her phone from work, so she was happy to upgrade to the 4s. And she's be happy until Apple upgrades the OS and kills her current phone.

I can't believe you think that is better?

I don't own an iPhone. So the upgrade path is irrelevant to me. Plus you're talking about 3 year old phones not upgrading correctly not something that was released six months before the new software drops. HUGE difference.

My only answer is that I have no problem thinking of an OS as being tied to the phone, and whenever I want the new hotness, Ill upgrade. The odds of me ever upgrading an Android phone would be extremely rare.

But I really do read what you have to say about tech because it is largely unbiased. I think your descriptions are usually spot on. I just have a very different perspective on what I want out of a phone.

And arguing perspectives is probably really dumb, and what I'm guilty of. I mostly just want to add my perspective to the mix. Not as good or bad, but just one that might be of use to someone.

[FifaInspected]

DB. Any thoughts on the Nokia PureView?

[dbdynsty25]

DB. Any thoughts on the Nokia PureView?

WAY overpriced at 700 unlocked. Better off getting a real mirrorless camera like a Sony NEX 3/5 or an Olympus Pen series camera and still have money left over to get an Android/iPhone w/ a contract. Way better to spend the money on a changeable lens system than the PureView. Decent concept, ugly design, Symbian OS, and horribly overpriced. They will not sell many over here IMO.

[Brando70]

Here is a db question. Now that its available to me, do I really need to upgrade my Galaxy S2 to ice cream sandwich? What will I be gaining?

Its pretty kick ass as is. Ill hang up an listen to my answer.

The first two points are most important: battery life and speed should both increase...especially the speed. Lots of UI customization options, swiping notifications instead of having to clear them, etc. Here's a good rundown. Only real difference is that the ICS phone (Galaxy Nexus) doens't have hardware buttons, so you won't see those options on screen you'll just use your buttons as you currently do.

In short...no bigger upgrade has ever been done to software in a phone before. The speed enhancements alone (not that the GSII is slow mind you) are worth the effort to upgrade. Do it.

Yeah, I'm excited that it's going to hit the Thunderbolt soon.

[Darkbandit]

Yeah the SII camera is pretty good as well...which is why it was pretty surprising that the Nexus, which essentially is a GSII had such a poor camera implemented. It's all because they wanted to get that burst mode and panorama stuff included. Stuff that isn't on the GSII as far as I know, but is on the GSIII and the HTC One X/S. Oh well...I'm still on stock ICS which is the most important thing. Also the reason I probably won't get a GSIII. But that's subject to change at any moment once they are actually available in store.

Mmhmm...you passing up an android phone is like me hitting the lottery...lol

[dbdynsty25]

Yeah the SII camera is pretty good as well...which is why it was pretty surprising that the Nexus, which essentially is a GSII had such a poor camera implemented. It's all because they wanted to get that burst mode and panorama stuff included. Stuff that isn't on the GSII as far as I know, but is on the GSIII and the HTC One X/S. Oh well...I'm still on stock ICS which is the most important thing. Also the reason I probably won't get a GSIII. But that's subject to change at any moment once they are actually available in store.

Mmhmm...you passing up an android phone is like me hitting the lottery...lol

I haven't bought one since the Galaxy Nexus...so there!

Really...phones come out that have slightly higher specs, but the pure google experience without all the crappy skinning that manufacturers do is really what keeps me with the phone I've got. I love it. Probably my favorite phone of all time. Outside of the mediocre camera, I don't have any complaints.

[wco81]

Well Nokia will have their PureView camera soon but supposedly it's 18 mm thick so it'll be interesting how many people are willing to carry a bigger, heavier phone, just to take better pictures.

Next year should be a jump in processing power. Road map for this year should be incremental bumps in specs.

[dbdynsty25]

Well Nokia will have their PureView camera soon but supposedly it's 18 mm thick so it'll be interesting how many people are willing to carry a bigger, heavier phone, just to take better pictures.

Next year should be a jump in processing power. Road map for this year should be incremental bumps in specs.

You really think processing power is on next years agenda? I have a feeling we're going to be flat for a while. There just isn't anywhere to go when it comes to increasing that processing power. The dual core 1.5ghz w/ LTE is already a battery drainer...unless they start making new and smaller processors that eat less power, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Sure, the quad cores are out now but none have come out with LTE enabled yet. So that is on the horizon, but it's all marketing. You can see that just by looking at the GSIII. The Qualcomm S4 dual core is just as fast as the Quad core Samsung built processor (Exynos)...so everything may think they need faster, but they really need more efficient.

[wco81]

I believe the A15 cores are slated for next year. Should be better in dual core configuration than the quad-core A9s being used now.

Then the Rogue or Series 6 of the PowerVR GPUs should be available as well, which is the next generation of the GPUs that Apple has been using. I'm sure NVidia, Qualcomm and others have comparable products lined up in the same time period.

Also ARM's Big.Little scheme should be implemented and some think Intel could get into the game and beat out ARM in the long run because they have the best process tech.

Then there are other components like IGZO which will bring more power-efficient "retina" displays to the market.

Longer term, there's a lot of research being done on better battery technologies and the like.

There's just so much money being made that the pace of innovation doesn't show signs of slowing any time soon.

[Darkbandit]

Ok, since DB isn't going to take one for the good of the thread, I was able to procure the Galaxy S3 today...didn't get too much time to play around with it but so far I haven't had any problems with it.

[dbdynsty25]

Ok, since DB isn't going to take one for the good of the thread, I was able to procure the Galaxy S3 today...didn't get too much time to play around with it but so far I haven't had any problems with it.

Never said there wasn't ANY chance of me getting one. Sheesh. I can always change my mind and there is always tomorrow.

Full disclosure...I was in At&t today trying to order one but my account is weird because I switch so many devices so it wouldn't let me pre-order...I'll have to go in Sunday when they sell them in store. So...yeah, I attempted to get one. Who knows what will happen between now and Sunday. That's a long ways away. LOL.