Kazuya wrote:Wow... two Einstein-level Phillies fans going crazy because someone doesn't worship their base-clogging, future DH in the making, strikeout happy first baseman... who'da thunk it?
Since when did being a "nice player" become a bad thing? I think Pujols and Beltran are nice players too. If you think Howard is in the same league as Pujols, PLEASE make your case... I will enjoy ripping it to shreds. You can make a case for Beltran actually (haven't checked in a week or so but I think Beltran was actually leading in Win Shares), but Howard is not in that class. He's still very nice, but home runs do not an elite player make.
I guess until Ryan Howard becomes ESPN'd, he won't be anything more than just a "base-clogging, future DH in the making, strikeout happy first baseman" in your eyes. Nobody is saying Howard is as great a player as Pujols. Very few, if any, are. But to say he is not an elite player, you are showing that you have no clue.
Watch the guy play first before you give your opinion.
jLp vAkEr0 wrote:IMO, a MVP player should be one that helps the team in other areas too, toher that hiting HR's and driving in runs.
He should be a player that can impact a game on defense too, gets on base, scores runs.
Beltran does all that. But you just can't look away from those video game kinda numbers Pujols and Howard are putting up.
It's true that players like Beltran and A-Rod (not counting his weird defensive meltdown that he had) and a few others are probably the best all-around players in baseball. Beltran runs, hits, plays good CF, etc. It's just that Pujols is so far above the pack as a hitter... I mean he ranks at or near the top of every major category, and *is* at the top of all the important ones. He doesn't have any weaknesses... Beltran and Howard do. Beltran is just Pujols lite with a lower average, and Howard... well he's on pace for 180 strikeouts... get back to me when he fixes that.
Power hitters will strike out. That's a known deal baseball. But it's funny how you don't bring up that Howard's OBP is .386 at the moment. Pretty good for someone that strikes out too much and only hits home runs.
And since when did hitting .296 not make you a hitter for average?
Programmed2Kill wrote:
Power hitters will strike out. That's a known deal baseball. But it's funny how you don't bring up that Howard's OBP is .386 at the moment. Pretty good for someone that strikes out too much and only hits home runs.
And since when did hitting .296 not make you a hitter for average?
Saying Howard strikes out is like saying Tiger Woods wins golf tournaments. He's threatening the all-time record for strikeouts... that's 190 of the worst outs you can make, moving no runners along in the process. No "elite" player can strike out that many times. Sorry to be the one to break it to you. When he cuts down on the K's and hits a bit better against lefties then maybe he can get there...
"Whatever, I don't know why you even play yourself to that degree,
you laugh at me?" - Del
Beltran's a switch-hitter, and he's only batting .262 vs lefties.
In my brief digging (I'm sure I probably missed some), I only found Morneau and Hafner to have better numbers from the left side of the plate...and they were impressive.
Beltran's a switch-hitter, and he's only batting .262 vs lefties.
In my brief digging (I'm sure I probably missed some), I only found Morneau and Hafner to have better numbers from the left side of the plate...and they were impressive.
Howard's numbers against lefties are just fine... but they'll have to be better for him to be the best of the best. Ortiz still manages a .50 points higher OPS against lefties than Howard, which means he's still easily more productive. Those other guys aren't even close to elite players... frankly, I don't know if Ortiz is either.
Any more Phillies fans want to weigh in? As a favor, you should ALL change to Ryan Howard avatars to make it easier for me to track comments...
"Whatever, I don't know why you even play yourself to that degree,
you laugh at me?" - Del
I wish someone had told me about this strikeout stuff before I grew up idolizing Mike Schmidt. I (and Bill James) thought he was the best 3B of all time, but he did lead the NL in strikeouts 4 times and he does rank 6th on the all-time K list. Hell, he even struck out 180 times one year!
All these years, thinking he was an "elite player." I feel so stupid now.
Skerik wrote:I wish someone had told me about this strikeout stuff before I grew up idolizing Mike Schmidt. I (and Bill James) thought he was the best 3B of all time, but he did lead the NL in strikeouts 4 times and he does rank 6th on the all-time K list. Hell, he even struck out 180 times one year!
All these years, thinking he was an "elite player." I feel so stupid now.
You were quite bright then, it's now you're acting stupid. Look at his strikeout numbers during his three MVP seasons. His numbers for the first two were perfectly fine for a power hitter, especially considering he also walked a healthy amount of times. 119 and 71 are not 180. And by his third MVP, strikeouts were obviously not a problem. When he got rid of the strikeout problems, he became elite. He was also one of the greatest defensive players who ever lived, not a base clogging first baseman.
"Whatever, I don't know why you even play yourself to that degree,
you laugh at me?" - Del
Kazuya, you really are making a case for most ignorant fan on the boards. If you don't think Howard is an elite player in the big leagues you are just flat out in search of a clue...and not getting very far. Stop embarrassing yourself.
For the record, I never said that Howard was a better player than Pujols. He is however, IMO, having a better year and more deserving of the MVP...to this point. If I were a GM drafting and I had my choice I would take Pujols ahead of Howard. That still doesn't make him the "no brainer" (no pun intended) MVP.
I'll give credit where credit is due, your post was funny in a sad way.
Diablo25 wrote:Kazuya, you really are making a case for most ignorant fan on the boards. If you don't think Howard is an elite player in the big leagues you are just flat out in search of a clue...and not getting very far. Stop embarrassing yourself.
For the record, I never said that Howard was a better player than Pujols. He is however, IMO, having a better year and more deserving of the MVP...to this point. If I were a GM drafting and I had my choice I would take Pujols ahead of Howard. That still doesn't make him the "no brainer" (no pun intended) MVP.
I'll give credit where credit is due, your post was funny in a sad way.
I was thinking the same thing about you, I almost envy your ignorance. I wish I could go back to the days where home runs where the most important thing in baseball... wheee! Anyone who thinks that Howard is having a better season than Pujols lacks such a basic understanding of the game that I really am at a loss to help them. In a while, I'll PM you some links to help bring you along a bit, but at this debate I really am debating if we need to go all the way back to the bases are ninety feet apart...
I'll give you credit where credit is due, Philly fans are loyal if not knowledgeable...
"Whatever, I don't know why you even play yourself to that degree,
you laugh at me?" - Del
Diablo25 wrote:Kazuya, you really are making a case for most ignorant fan on the boards. If you don't think Howard is an elite player in the big leagues you are just flat out in search of a clue...and not getting very far. Stop embarrassing yourself.
For the record, I never said that Howard was a better player than Pujols. He is however, IMO, having a better year and more deserving of the MVP...to this point. If I were a GM drafting and I had my choice I would take Pujols ahead of Howard. That still doesn't make him the "no brainer" (no pun intended) MVP.
I'll give credit where credit is due, your post was funny in a sad way.
I was thinking the same thing about you, I almost envy your ignorance. I wish I could go back to the days where home runs where the most important thing in baseball... wheee! Anyone who thinks that Howard is having a better season than Pujols lacks such a basic understanding of the game that I really am at a loss to help them. In a while, I'll PM you some links to help bring you along a bit, but at this debate I really am debating if we need to go all the way back to the bases are ninety feet apart...
I'll give you credit where credit is due, Philly fans are loyal if not knowledgeable...
Fair enough. I guess I'm just ignorant then. Those 7 years I played professionally must have dimmed my view of great players (ARod, Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield, etc.). Seeing their ability dwarf (and I mean dwarf ) my soft hitting ass and pushing me into my current career (teacher ) just didn't sink in. Please send me those links so I can brush up on the game.
Diablo25 wrote:Kazuya, you really are making a case for most ignorant fan on the boards. If you don't think Howard is an elite player in the big leagues you are just flat out in search of a clue...and not getting very far. Stop embarrassing yourself.
For the record, I never said that Howard was a better player than Pujols. He is however, IMO, having a better year and more deserving of the MVP...to this point. If I were a GM drafting and I had my choice I would take Pujols ahead of Howard. That still doesn't make him the "no brainer" (no pun intended) MVP.
I'll give credit where credit is due, your post was funny in a sad way.
I was thinking the same thing about you, I almost envy your ignorance. I wish I could go back to the days where home runs where the most important thing in baseball... wheee! Anyone who thinks that Howard is having a better season than Pujols lacks such a basic understanding of the game that I really am at a loss to help them. In a while, I'll PM you some links to help bring you along a bit, but at this debate I really am debating if we need to go all the way back to the bases are ninety feet apart...
I'll give you credit where credit is due, Philly fans are loyal if not knowledgeable...
Fair enough. I guess I'm just ignorant then. Those 7 years I played professionally must have dimmed my view of great players (ARod, Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield, etc.). Seeing their ability dwarf (and I mean dwarf ) my soft hitting ass and pushing me into my current career (teacher ) just didn't sink in. Please send me those links so I can brush up on the game.
Sorry, you could be a 500 pound computer nerd or Mike Schmidt himself for all I know; this is the World Wide Web and anybody could be whoever they say they are. But I like your humility and the fact that you can actually argue and not get upset. So I'll call a truce and say, OK it's not a "no-brainer" that Pujols is the MVP. I still think he's the obvious choice, but I used crappy wording there since there are some other guys out there who you can make good cases for. My bad on that.
"Whatever, I don't know why you even play yourself to that degree,
you laugh at me?" - Del
Kazuya wrote:
I was thinking the same thing about you, I almost envy your ignorance. I wish I could go back to the days where home runs where the most important thing in baseball... wheee! Anyone who thinks that Howard is having a better season than Pujols lacks such a basic understanding of the game that I really am at a loss to help them. In a while, I'll PM you some links to help bring you along a bit, but at this debate I really am debating if we need to go all the way back to the bases are ninety feet apart...
I'll give you credit where credit is due, Philly fans are loyal if not knowledgeable...
Fair enough. I guess I'm just ignorant then. Those 7 years I played professionally must have dimmed my view of great players (ARod, Bonds, Giambi, Sheffield, etc.). Seeing their ability dwarf (and I mean dwarf ) my soft hitting ass and pushing me into my current career (teacher ) just didn't sink in. Please send me those links so I can brush up on the game.
Sorry, you could be a 500 pound computer nerd or Mike Schmidt himself for all I know; this is the World Wide Web and anybody could be whoever they say they are. But I like your humility and the fact that you can actually argue and not get upset. So I'll call a truce and say, OK it's not a "no-brainer" that Pujols is the MVP. I still think he's the obvious choice, but I used crappy wording there since there are some other guys out there who you can make good cases for. My bad on that.
OK, truce. I don't mean to get so fired up. I just love baseball...and I'm sure you do. The fun of this site is that we can debate and have good discussion. Its all good. I guess we will all know by Oct. 1st.
Another home run, scored three runs and walked twice. And we all damn sure know he can't bat runs in because he strikes out so much, judging from his 128 RBIs.
Howard gets all the hits tonight, in a losing effort.
Albert draws two walks, but scores the winning run, as well as gets the game saving final out on a heads up play firing over to Rolen after an infield single to catch the baserunner rounding the third base bag too far that would have been bases loaded for the Marlins.
Give Howard the Silver Slugger if he keeps up this pace through September. But MVP means more than just hitting. Pujols saved the game (Izzy was on his way to blowing another one) and expanded the Cards NL Central lead to 5 games.
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jondiehl wrote:Howard gets all the hits tonight, in a losing effort.
Albert draws two walks, but scores the winning run, as well as gets the game saving final out on a heads up play firing over to Rolen after an infield single to catch the baserunner rounding the third base bag too far that would have been bases loaded for the Marlins.
Give Howard the Silver Slugger if he keeps up this pace through September. But MVP means more than just hitting. Pujols saved the game (Izzy was on his way to blowing another one) and expanded the Cards NL Central lead to 5 games.
Hey, it's not Ryan's fault the ball wasn't popped around towards him.
Well, that one hit did go to him. He had it but didn't get the ball right to Fultz. He's improving lol...he's improving. I noticed he has in the last Mets series.
) my soft hitting ass and pushing me into my current career (teacher 
