OT: Major League Baseball 2006 Season Discussion

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:06 am

Jayson Stark was giving Morneau and Mauer some love this morning on Mike & Mike, but he felt they had no chance because being on the same team, they'll divide their votes.

Maybe they should combine their votes and be co-MVP's? There should be a new rule... if you have two stars on the same team and have the same initials, they can run as a single entry.

fanatic · Post by **fanatic** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:07 am

My vote is for Mauer. Clutch hitting plus playing the catchers position should push him over the top.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:19 am

Dave wrote:As long as Jeter doesn't get the AL MVP I'll be happy.

Jermaine Dye has to be the favorite right now, in my opinion. As a Twins homer, I'd at least like to see Justin Morneau and Joe Mauer's names show up in the mix.

Jeter's NOT getting the MVP. I agree that the Twins guys will probably split votes. Dye is having a great year, and has a great shot assuming the chisox make the playoffs. If he is okay and gets back, I see Ortiz getting it.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:37 am

After reading how beat down Mauer is at this point of the year, as most catchers are, it makes it very hard for me to consider a DH for the MVP award. Not that I'd vote for Mauer, but playing in the field everyday is something I think is important when judging the value of a player.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:39 am

Dave wrote:After reading how beat down Mauer is at this point of the year, as most catchers are, it makes it very hard for me to consider a DH for the MVP award. Not that I'd vote for Mauer, but playing in the field everyday is something I think is important when judging the value of a player.

Dave, I agree with you. I just remember all the talk last year when it came down to Ortiz and Arod. I feel like Ortiz will definitely get some votes from guys who felt he should have gotten it last year.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:40 am

Nice for Oswalt and Astros fans:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2565774

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 1:52 pm

Javy...I agree that Beltran should get some MVP love but he will never win it because of the team he has around him. The Mets likely would have won the division anyway, even if they had Cameron in the outfield...they are that stacked.

Howard should get the love but he won't because the Phils won't make the playoffs. So that leaves Pujols...and that's about it.

Sully · Post by **Sully** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:16 pm

I'm not ready to rule the Phillies out of the wildcard just yet. They're only .5 back, and the rest of their schedule is against teams with a record below .500. Howard surely has a shot at the MVP, but has an alarming amount of K's....I think he's second in the ML, behind Adam Dunn.

Beltran will be hard-pressed to win it because he has teammates like Reyes and Wright that are likely to steal a few votes away from him. Maybe it's just me, but I consider Reyes more of a MVP candidate than Beltran.

Pujols, he's definitely leading the race right now. His numbers are incredible across the board.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:48 pm

In the NL my vote goes to R. Howard. Great numbers for his sophomore year he has the stats to be the MVP but what will happen if the Phillies fall in the last month? Special mention to A. Soriano.

In the AL, my vote goes to big Papi Ortiz, Mr Clutch comes through in key situations, topping the Majors in HR's and RBI's. Hope his health hets better.

J. Dye is also a candidate.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 2:51 pm

10spro wrote:In the AL, my vote goes to big Papi Ortiz, Mr Clutch comes through in key situations, topping the Majors in HR's and RBI's. Hope his health hets better.

J. Dye is also a candidate.

2-out RBI are far from the only way to measure clutch, but Papi trails two Minnesota Twins in that category--Justin Morneau and Michael Cuddyer.

Sully · Post by **Sully** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:06 pm

Ortiz also isn't tops in the majors in HR's and RBI.

If he misses the remainder of the season, or a good part of September, he's likely not to win the AL MVP.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 3:07 pm

My whole thing with the NL MVP race is the way some (mainly in the media) are treating Howard. I hear things like, "he just might get some votes" or " he could get some consideration". What a joke. Howard deserves it just as much as Pujols or Beltran. His team is in a legit pennant race and he's leading the MAJORS in HR and RBI. That is a legit MVP candidate. I love how some people already have the Phils out of the playoffs yet are blowing Pujols and the Cards. FYI, the cards lead is only 3.5...they may miss the playoffs. How would Pujols look then?

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:08 pm

Diablo25 wrote:His team is in a legit pennant race

The NL East pennant has been all but clinched by the Mets. The Phillies are in a wildcard race.

The reason why ppl are "blowing" Pujols is that he's a triple crown threat every year. Howard has great power numbers, but Pujols has that PLUS the ability to hit for average.

Even so, you gotta make the postseason to get serious consideration for the MVP (unless you're Bonds or another juiced up cheater that has so much better numbers than anyone else that the team's record doesn't matter).

Consider the '03 NL MVP race as an example:

Bonds 45HR, 90RBI, .341 avg, 58k's in 390AB's
Pujols 43HR, 124RBI, .359 avg, only 52k's in 590AB's

The Giants finish with 100 wins and a 15+ game lead in the West. The Cards just miss the postseason finishing 3 behind the Cubs.

Pujols carried the team on his back, clearly had the best numbers in the NL, yet Bonds wins the MVP award (despite missing 20% of his team's games). Pujols has been the best hitter in MLB since he came onto the scene in 2001, yet only has the one MVP in '05 because of Bond's presence. Howard has great power numbers, but he lacks Albert's batting average and ability to get on base. There's more to being an MVP than hitting the ball out of the park and driving in runs. Despite having 60+ less AB's than Howard, Pujols has 10 more doubles, 14 more runs, 5 SB's, and only 8 less hits.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 9:40 pm

jondiehl wrote:
Diablo25 wrote:His team is in a legit pennant race
The NL East pennant has been all but clinched by the Mets. The Phillies are in a wildcard race.

The reason why ppl are "blowing" Pujols is that he's a triple crown threat every year. Howard has great power numbers, but Pujols has that PLUS the ability to hit for average.

Even so, you gotta make the postseason to get serious consideration for the MVP (unless you're Bonds or another juiced up cheater that has so much better numbers than anyone else that the team's record doesn't matter).

Consider the '03 NL MVP race as an example:

Bonds 45HR, 90RBI, .341 avg, 58k's in 390AB's
Pujols 43HR, 124RBI, .359 avg, only 52k's in 590AB's

The Giants finish with 100 wins and a 15+ game lead in the West. The Cards just miss the postseason finishing 3 behind the Cubs.

Pujols carried the team on his back, clearly had the best numbers in the NL, yet Bonds wins the MVP award (despite missing 20% of his team's games). Pujols has been the best hitter in MLB since he came onto the scene in 2001, yet only has the one MVP in '05 because of Bond's presence. Howard has great power numbers, but he lacks Albert's batting average and ability to get on base. There's more to being an MVP than hitting the ball out of the park and driving in runs. Despite having 60+ less AB's than Howard, Pujols has 10 more doubles, 14 more runs, 5 SB's, and only 8 less hits.

First off, I'm with you on Pujols. He is awesome and he should have won the MVP in 03. However, he is not a triple crown threat this year. Sure, he missed some time with an injury...tough luck. Still doesn't change things. Yes, he has Howard when it comes to batting average but its not like Howard is hitting .260 with his power numbers. He is hitting .296. In August, he has 13 bombs and 40 RBI...when it counts. All I am saying is Howard is not some throw in, charity candidate. Many, including me, feel he is the frontrunner right now. Lets just wait until Oct. 1st....it will be more clear cut by then. My money is on Howard. If Beltran or Pujols deserve it more I will have no problem admitting it.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:29 pm

My MVP vote goes to Ryan Howard, a St. Louis guy.

The second half MVP for the Cardinals goes to not Albert Pujols, but Chris Duncan or Chris Carpenter. Pujols has cooled a bit despite a couple big games in the past few weeks.

By the way, supposedly, the Red Sox wanted to trade 43 year old and out of shape David Wells to the Cards for Wainwright or Duncan. Theo must be smokin' some good stuff. Unfortunately, Wells would be a significant upgrade for the Cardinals pitching staff.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Wed Aug 30, 2006 10:31 pm

jondiehl wrote: Consider the '03 NL MVP race as an example:

Bonds 45HR, 90RBI, .341 avg, 58k's in 390AB's
Pujols 43HR, 124RBI, .359 avg, only 52k's in 590AB's

The Giants finish with 100 wins and a 15+ game lead in the West. The Cards just miss the postseason finishing 3 behind the Cubs.

Pujols carried the team on his back, clearly had the best numbers in the NL, yet Bonds wins the MVP award (despite missing 20% of his team's games). Pujols has been the best hitter in MLB since he came onto the scene in 2001, yet only has the one MVP in '05 because of Bond's presence.

Not sure what you're smoking here, but I need some for the tough weeks when I want to get high so high. Bonds's numbers obliterated Pujols every year from 2001-2004. OBLITERATED. Of the top 10 OPS+ seasons in the history of the game, those four seasons are all in the top 10. Pujols has never posted a top 100 season. You posted the numbers yourself... 45 HR in 390 ABs? Ridiculous. 148 walks in 130 games, slugging of .750. And that was his *worst* season. Bonds in a landslide.

This year, Pujols is pretty obviously the best hitter in the NL and the MVP. Howard is a nice player but he makes too many outs compared to Albert. Albert's totals would be even higher without the time on the DL, and his rate stats trump all. Pujols is the easy choice as long as the Cards don't go in the can.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:04 am

Diablo25 wrote:However, he is not a triple crown threat this year.

No, he's not going to win it (Sanchez is too far ahead in batting average), but he is 5th in AVG, 3rd in HR (tied with Beltran with 39), and 4th in RBI (one behind Berkman in 3rd place).

This will be the 6th straight year that he's at least deserved mention of being a triple crown threat and always seems to finish in the top 5 of each category.

Not only that, with 1 more HR and 3 runs scored, it will be his 6th season to have:

-At least .300 average
-At least 30 HR
-At least 100 RBI
-At least 100 runs scored

Again, it will be his SIXTH consecutive season to start his career in which he surpassed those numbers. And he is CRUSHING those numbers.

No other player in the history of MLB, that's more than 100 years of organized professional baseball in this country, has been able to surpass all four of these numbers for more than TWO seasons to start a career.

SIX for Albert??? That's three times as long as anyone else.... EVER.

Yes, Bonds had an unbelievable run from 2001-2004, but as we all suspected then and know now, he was on steroids (the cream & the clear) and who knows what else to fuel those inflated numbers.

Here's good article about some HOF types and their first 5 seasons in the bigs:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/b ... index.html

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 12:15 am

Arguments over somewhat subjective and relatively meaningless individual honors in team sports are boring.

You know what isn't boring? Watching the Mets these days! Unless you're a Rockies fan, that is...

Programmed2Kill · Post by **Programmed2Kill** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:24 am

Kazuya wrote: Howard is a nice player

A NICE PLAYER?!

Wow.

If Pujols or Beltran win the MVP, I have no problem with that. They are incredible. But if the Phillies win the wildcard, the MVP has to go to Howard. Without him, the Phillies would be nowhere near challenging the wildcard...and that's saying plenty since this is the NL.

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:30 am

Kazuya wrote:
jondiehl wrote: Consider the '03 NL MVP race as an example:

Bonds 45HR, 90RBI, .341 avg, 58k's in 390AB's
Pujols 43HR, 124RBI, .359 avg, only 52k's in 590AB's

The Giants finish with 100 wins and a 15+ game lead in the West. The Cards just miss the postseason finishing 3 behind the Cubs.

Pujols carried the team on his back, clearly had the best numbers in the NL, yet Bonds wins the MVP award (despite missing 20% of his team's games). Pujols has been the best hitter in MLB since he came onto the scene in 2001, yet only has the one MVP in '05 because of Bond's presence.
Not sure what you're smoking here, but I need some for the tough weeks when I want to get high so high. Bonds's numbers obliterated Pujols every year from 2001-2004. OBLITERATED. Of the top 10 OPS+ seasons in the history of the game, those four seasons are all in the top 10. Pujols has never posted a top 100 season. You posted the numbers yourself... 45 HR in 390 ABs? Ridiculous. 148 walks in 130 games, slugging of .750. And that was his *worst* season. Bonds in a landslide.

This year, Pujols is pretty obviously the best hitter in the NL and the MVP. Howard is a nice player but he makes too many outs compared to Albert. Albert's totals would be even higher without the time on the DL, and his rate stats trump all. Pujols is the easy choice as long as the Cards don't go in the can.

Who is high?

Howard is a nice player

He is far more than a "nice" player.

Pujols is the easy choice as long as the Cards don't go in the can.

Easy choice? Maybe in your world. Pujols, Howard and Beltran are all deserving of serious consideration at this point. If you don't think so then I am glad you don't have a vote.

And for the record, I think Pujols is the best hitter in the NL but he's not the clear cut MVP this year. He's just not.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:14 am

Programmed2Kill wrote:
Kazuya wrote:
jondiehl wrote: Howard is a nice player

A NICE PLAYER?!

Fix your quotes, I never said that. I said he was a stud.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:41 am

Wow... two Einstein-level Phillies fans going crazy because someone doesn't worship their base-clogging, future DH in the making, strikeout happy first baseman... who'da thunk it?

Since when did being a "nice player" become a bad thing? I think Pujols and Beltran are nice players too. If you think Howard is in the same league as Pujols, PLEASE make your case... I will enjoy ripping it to shreds. You can make a case for Beltran actually (haven't checked in a week or so but I think Beltran was actually leading in Win Shares), but Howard is not in that class. He's still very nice, but home runs do not an elite player make.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:08 am

IMO, a MVP player should be one that helps the team in other areas too, toher that hiting HR's and driving in runs.

He should be a player that can impact a game on defense too, gets on base, scores runs.

Beltran does all that. But you just can't look away from those video game kinda numbers Pujols and Howard are putting up.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:14 am

jLp vAkEr0 wrote:IMO, a MVP player should be one that helps the team in other areas too, toher that hiting HR's and driving in runs.

He should be a player that can impact a game on defense too, gets on base, scores runs.

Beltran does all that. But you just can't look away from those video game kinda numbers Pujols and Howard are putting up.

It's true that players like Beltran and A-Rod (not counting his weird defensive meltdown that he had) and a few others are probably the best all-around players in baseball. Beltran runs, hits, plays good CF, etc. It's just that Pujols is so far above the pack as a hitter... I mean he ranks at or near the top of every major category, and *is* at the top of all the important ones. He doesn't have any weaknesses... Beltran and Howard do. Beltran is just Pujols lite with a lower average, and Howard... well he's on pace for 180 strikeouts... get back to me when he fixes that.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Thu Aug 31, 2006 2:57 pm

Pujols is on track for his 1st gold glove this year too, and while he doesn't steal alot of bases, he's a great baserunner and actually has a decent SB percentage.

It should be an interesting vote for sure. At least Bonds won't be taking away anyone's votes.