Danimal wrote:Hell Denver is winning with a sack of potatoes at QB because John Fox is smart enough to understand what he can't do. History would tell us the Bears are not that smart.
Tebow is alot of things, but a "sack of potatoes" is downright wrong when you consider that while he does not have the prototypical NFL QB skills, he DOES have a knack for finding a way to WIN which is all that counts in the NFL. Style points don't mean a damn thing. I sure wish the Texans had Tebow right now with the way he is willing the Broncos to wins.....
He gets way too much credit for their winning streak. The Broncos have given up 15 points or less in 4 of the 5 games Tebow won. That by far is the main reason they have won lately. He's completing 45% of his passes, which is hurting his team more than his running is helping them. The game against Oakland is the only one where I think he was decisive in their victory.
I really don't care one way or another, I just want people to stop talking about him.
I agree too. Playing defense and running the ball was always the formula til recently.
At 45, I grew up thinking that that was how you are supposed to play.
The Bears do that and they will be fine. What killed them yesterday was the trickeration before the end of the half that cost them points and gave the Raiders a fg.
Danimal wrote:Hell Denver is winning with a sack of potatoes at QB because John Fox is smart enough to understand what he can't do. History would tell us the Bears are not that smart.
Tebow is alot of things, but a "sack of potatoes" is downright wrong when you consider that while he does not have the prototypical NFL QB skills, he DOES have a knack for finding a way to WIN which is all that counts in the NFL. Style points don't mean a damn thing. I sure wish the Texans had Tebow right now with the way he is willing the Broncos to wins.....
Most people with a knowledge of football would tell you it is Denver's defense and running game which has a knack for winning. All Tebow is doing is taking the credit. The one game they lost where the D didn't show up, was Tebow capable of winning that game? Is he capable of winning any game in which another team scores? Luck for Denver they won't have to find this out to the playoffs.
The only thing willing the Broncos to victories is their Defense. It is amazing to me how many people want to give him credit when there is plenty to go around way before him. You can bet your ass if their D has a bad game and they get blown out it won't be Tebows fault.
Just remember this the wildcat worked the first year it was in the league, hasn't done much sense. I can't even believe Denver would entertain the notion of making this guy their starter next year but assuming they do I would expect this option run attack won't play as well.
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Danimal wrote:
Just remember this the wildcat worked the first year it was in the league, hasn't done much sense. I can't even believe Denver would entertain the notion of making this guy their starter next year but assuming they do I would expect this option run attack won't play as well.
Good points.
Sooner or later there has to be the threat of the pass or it will fail.
Danimal wrote:
Most people with a knowledge of football would tell you it is Denver's defense and running game which has a knack for winning. All Tebow is doing is taking the credit. The one game they lost where the D didn't show up, was Tebow capable of winning that game? Is he capable of winning any game in which another team scores? Luck for Denver they won't have to find this out to the playoffs.
The only thing willing the Broncos to victories is their Defense. It is amazing to me how many people want to give him credit when there is plenty to go around way before him. You can bet your ass if their D has a bad game and they get blown out it won't be Tebows fault.
Just remember this the wildcat worked the first year it was in the league, hasn't done much sense. I can't even believe Denver would entertain the notion of making this guy their starter next year but assuming they do I would expect this option run attack won't play as well.
I PLAYED in the NFL and I don't have knowledge of football...is that what you are trying to say? Seriously??
And notice I did NOT say he was the ONLY reason they are winning, but it seems funny that ever since he took over the starting job, they are winning. Does NOT matter how. He won't make it long term in the NFL once defenses figure him out as well if he does not figure out how to pass like an NFL QB either....and I agree he is getting too much credit, but what more do you expect from ESPN and the media in general?
DivotMaker wrote:I PLAYED in the NFL and I don't have knowledge of football...is that what you are trying to say? Seriously??
There are a TON of dumb NFL players. Just because you played in the league, doesn't mean you know about it. Just ask Ochocinco...he who cannot remember a playbook. Sh*t...half of the analysts played in the NFL and I cannot believe half the sh*t they spout on about every sunday. So bad argument.
Defense has been great but you have to give Tebow some credit for not turning it over.
And it may not be a coincidence that they're able to score in the clutch because that running style wears out defenses, as it did the Jets at the end of the game. Not just physically but mentally worrying about the option and then at the end of games, they're able to move the ball and hit key passing plays.
It's conceivable that by the end of the season, Broncos could be like 7-3 or better in games Tebow started. If that is the case, it will be even more impossible to deny all those fans Tebow starting next year, even though for the long-term future of the franchise, they should be looking at acquiring other QBs and trying to develop any QBs they might draft or start any FA QB they might sign.
wco81 wrote:Defense has been great but you have to give Tebow some credit for not turning it over.
And it may not be a coincidence that they're able to score in the clutch because that running style wears out defenses, as it did the Jets at the end of the game. Not just physically but mentally worrying about the option and then at the end of games, they're able to move the ball and hit key passing plays.
It's conceivable that by the end of the season, Broncos could be like 7-3 or better in games Tebow started. If that is the case, it will be even more impossible to deny all those fans Tebow starting next year, even though for the long-term future of the franchise, they should be looking at acquiring other QBs and trying to develop any QBs they might draft or start any FA QB they might sign.
Miami fans were hoping that the Tuna would have drafted Tebow for the Wildcat. I would've loved to see that.
Rodster wrote:Miami fans were hoping that the Tuna would have drafted Tebow for the Wildcat. I would've loved to see that.
Hell no they were not...at least the logical ones weren't. You were the exception...you and my brother in law I should say (huge UF fan, and obviously delusional).
Rodster wrote:Miami fans were hoping that the Tuna would have drafted Tebow for the Wildcat. I would've loved to see that.
Hell no they were not...at least the logical ones weren't. You were the exception...you and my brother in law I should say (huge UF fan, and obviously delusional).
Wrong !
There were sh*tloads of us delusion fans in Miami hoping for the Dolphins to draft Teeb.
DivotMaker wrote:I PLAYED in the NFL and I don't have knowledge of football...is that what you are trying to say? Seriously??
And notice I did NOT say he was the ONLY reason they are winning, but it seems funny that ever since he took over the starting job, they are winning. Does NOT matter how. He won't make it long term in the NFL once defenses figure him out as well if he does not figure out how to pass like an NFL QB either....and I agree he is getting too much credit, but what more do you expect from ESPN and the media in general?
First you're interpreting my response wrong. I said most people with knowledge of the NFL. Doesn't mean you have no knowledge, whether you played in the NFL or not doesn't make a difference to me. I was simply stating most people who aren't influenced easily by ESPN or other media, most people who look objectively and most people who aren't bible thumpers are going to tell you that the reason they are winning is because of their D and running game.
He is the story that won't go away and to be even more direct because he is a white guy who promotes religion he is given more credit and not enough critical analysis. Mike Vick (who I hate btw) was a running QB when he started. That wouldn't do for him, he had to become a pocket passer we can't have a running QB...unless he is a white guy that people can rally around.
Credit should go as follows: John Fox, Denver D, Denver RB's then Tebow. The only thing he brings that Orton and Quinn don't is he can run. I would argue that Terrel Pryor could effectively run this offense just as well with their current game plans.
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DivotMaker wrote:I PLAYED in the NFL and I don't have knowledge of football...is that what you are trying to say? Seriously??
There are a TON of dumb NFL players. Just because you played in the league, doesn't mean you know about it. Just ask Ochocinco...he who cannot remember a playbook. Sh*t...half of the analysts played in the NFL and I cannot believe half the sh*t they spout on about every sunday. So bad argument.
Try not to compare me to the nitwits in the league today. I was a World Class discus thrower and shot putter before I played in the NFL. Trust me, you can't be an idiot and make in the top 15 in the world in those two events. Hell, half the NFLPA if not more can barely make coherent sentences.....at the end of the day, I played the game and understand it VERY well whether you choose to believe me or not.
I have a buddy who loves to rip Tebow every Sunday & cite a bunch of stats about how bad he is. The one stat he ignores = win/loss. I suppose people would prefer Tebow is 0-6 but looks like a "nfl-style QB". I'm an AZ fan, I'd take Tebow in an instance. At least the games would be more interesting.
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QB win/loss is even more meaningless than a pitcher's win/loss.
It's not that Tebow doesn't have value, but the fact that they win with him is not necessarily a causation. The Broncos have averaged 19.3 pts per game in the six games Tebow has started. That's actually less than the 20.1 they have for the season and puts them at 21st in the league in scoring. Every team below them in offensive ppg has a losing record. They are 25th in total yards for the season. Tebow averages 145 yards combined per game, 50 below the 195 Orton averaged in passing. The Broncos also are around the same ranks in time of possession and first downs per game.
The big difference is that Orton had 9 turnovers in his five games while Tebow has two. That is a very positive factor for sure. But to think that the Broncos are winning because of Tebow ignores the evidence that their offensive production has declined after he took over. They are clearly winning because of defense and taking care of the football, which is much easier to do when you don't trust your QB to throw passes very much.
MizzouRah wrote:Bottom line, they are winning games with Tebow at the helm, who cares about anything else?
this.
If their QB didn't matter, how come the guy before Tebow couldn't get it done with the same team?
You guys are all forgetting the intangibles that Tebow brings.....the determination, winning attitude and belief that his players have in him.
I always laugh when people criticise Tebow's passing. The guy holds passing records for the SEC. He's still adjusting the speed and timing of the NFL game. He can pass.
QBs always get too much credit when a team wins, and too much blame when a team loses. Isn't that the rule of thumb in the NFL?
It seems everyone here agrees that Tebow is getting too much credit for the win streak, which is mostly on the back of the defense. But if the team is holding steady at yards, first downs and time-of-possession, but has significantly reduced turnovers under Tebow, it shouldn't be hard to conclude Tebow has given them a better chance to win than Orton (assuming equal opponent quality). And that's ignoring the obvious W-L record. Of course being better than Orton is not really something to celebrate either.
Honestly it reminds me of McNabb's early years in Philly honestly. That team won with defensive brilliance and a few big plays by McNabb a game, often with his feet. As far as passing accuracy he was pretty bad, though no doubt he has a cannon-arm. McNabb got too much credit too.
Personally I'd like to see Denver play, just because I find pro-style offenses kind of boring and prefer college football where the QB actually plays, instead of stand and throw. I harbor no delusions of an option QB succeeding in the NFL long term though.
JackB1 wrote:
I always laugh when people criticise Tebow's passing. The guy holds passing records for the SEC. He's still adjusting the speed and timing of the NFL game. He can pass.
I know I am about as sharp as a bowling ball but someone explain this to me.
Suh was suspended 2 games but encouraged by the NFLPA and Roger Goodell to appeal it.
Isn't Goodell the one who levied the suspension? If he appeals it and it gets reduced then I'll never say s*** again when Steeler players cry about being unfair targets.
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Goodell and the NFLPA are completely opposite sides. Where did you see Goodell encouraged him to appeal? Yes, the NFLPA is encouraging it because they look out only for the players and their bank accounts, but Goodell is on the NFLs side and is with the disciplinary committee.
