OT: NBA 2005-2006 Season Discussion

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:06 pm

NO love on this message board for the defending Atlantic Division Champions...The BOSTON CELTICS!!!

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:14 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
tjung0831 wrote:Yep i've adopted the Cavaliers as my team this year, mainly because of fellow St. Louisan Larry Hughes....plus watching Lebron doesn't hurt either and they've got great uniforms. They looked good last night, can't wait to see them against the Spurs.
How old are you again? Or are you really female? Who else picks a team with their uniforms being any part of the equation?

Well i'm not like a hardcore NBA fan. I like the Cavs uniforms...more specifically the colors.. big deal. I'm a lot older and a lot wiser than you!

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:25 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:As Bill Simmons wrote...it's hard to pin playoff hopes on Baron Davis staying healthy. Warrior fans should expect 40 games from BD and anything over that is just gravy. I took a chance on him pretty high in Fantasy hoops, so I certainly hope he stays healthy this year. If he does, I think the Warriors will definitely make it into the playoffs as he and Richardson make up probably the best backcourt in basketball.

Oh yeah...and he's already day to day with a hamstring strain. Not exactly a great start.

There is a huge dropoff from Davis to Fisher. Too bad we had to trade Speedy Claxton to get BD.

Last night, BD got hurt in the middle of a run which turned a 12-point deficit in the third quarter to a 25-point lead in the fourth. Good sign was they were able to stretch the lead with BD out but no you don't want BD out for a long stretch.

Besides his play, he's instilled confidence in the team. He's created easy shot opportunities but he's also gotten players like Zarko and Dunleavy to shoot much better. Dunleavy should give BD a piece of his big new signing bonus.

BD was pissed because some publication had him and JR ranked like 27th best backcourt.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 3:49 pm

Zlax45 wrote:NO love on this message board for the defending Atlantic Division Champions...The BOSTON CELTICS!!!

Nothing but love for my fav NBA team.

Good game last night. I liked what I saw from Gomes and Greene.

The team is so frigging young though. But very talented too.

Ricky Davis was great, and Paul did the usual.

Props to Delonte West for his near triple-double.

Still, I expect them to fall short of the playoffs, unless Delonte can be THAT good all year long.

Doubt it.

Toper · Post by **Toper** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:19 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:As Bill Simmons wrote...

Red Sox/Patriots fanboys have no credibility with me.

Anyways, as any Warriors fan will tell you, ANY opening nite victory is a good start for us.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:15 pm

Toper wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:As Bill Simmons wrote...
Red Sox/Patriots fanboys have no credibility with me.

Anyways, as any Warriors fan will tell you, ANY opening nite victory is a good start for us.

Yeah I know, I don't like him either, but he's right...I worry about BD. I like the Warriors a lot...they have a solid team and I think you guys will like Ike a lot when he comes back. That said, BD is the key to the postseason for them...which is ultimately what Simmons said.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:27 pm

Davis is critical to the Warriors season, but the same could be said of any of the top 10-15 players in the league. His injury history is scary; maybe that just means he's due for a healthy 70+ game season.

I'm more optimistic about this GSW team than any one since the Run-TMC years. There's always a tendency to overreact to the first few games of the season, but it looks like Sacto and Denver have taken a step back toward the Western conference field. Even if they fall short, the fact that the Warriors at least have a chance of winning each time out is a huge improvement over the days of Vonteego Cummings and Felton Spencer.

Toper · Post by **Toper** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:33 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:Davis is critical to the Warriors season, but the same could be said of any of the top 10-15 players in the league.

Precisely.

What I was really impressed with last nite was the way the rest of the Warriors played once Davis came out...whether he's injured or comes out of a game for a breather, the rest of the team's productivity is gonna determine how good (or bad) they can be this year.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:59 pm

So when the Suns make the playoffs, you can erase that theory.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:10 pm

With the Suns, Nash is the key. Stoudemire and Marion are fantastic players but the loss of either wouldn't be catastrophic. The offense runs through Nash, losing him for an extended period would be as hard on the Suns as the Warriors sans Baron.

D Fisher is nowhere as good as his contract is bad, but he's still a better #2 PG option than Leandro Barbosa. And no, I don't think Eddie House is really a PG.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:27 pm

Well that may be true, but your statement was the top 10-15 players which Amare clearly is. Just so happens that the Suns possibly have 3 of the top 15...

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 6:55 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:D Fisher is nowhere as good as his contract is bad, but he's still a better #2 PG option than Leandro Barbosa. And no, I don't think Eddie House is really a PG.

Meh, Smush Parker looks better than Fish.

Hope that Aaron Miles surprises and gets a lot of PT.

Toper · Post by **Toper** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:59 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:With the Suns, Nash is the key. Stoudemire and Marion are fantastic players but the loss of either wouldn't be catastrophic. The offense runs through Nash, losing him for an extended period would be as hard on the Suns as the Warriors sans Baron.

Exactly...the suns of two years ago were a lottery team without nash.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:19 pm

Toper wrote:
sfz_T-car wrote:With the Suns, Nash is the key. Stoudemire and Marion are fantastic players but the loss of either wouldn't be catastrophic. The offense runs through Nash, losing him for an extended period would be as hard on the Suns as the Warriors sans Baron.
Exactly...the suns of two years ago were a lottery team without nash.

There's no doubt that Nash is the most valuable Sun, but that wasn't what SF said...he said the top 10-15 players...which the Suns have a few of. They will be able to be fine without Amare for a little while. One might even argue that Marion is more valuable than Amare as well...obviously taking into account his defense and rebounding because he's not going to score as much as Amare.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:42 pm

Some of the top 10-15 are more irreplaceable than others, depending on their role and their team.

There are guys like Paul Pierce (not top 15 but maybe top 25) whose absence probably wouldn't make a huge difference. Indiana survived without Artest last year. I think Phoenix will be a playoff team without Stoudamire.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:31 am

Well the Suns can still score. A smooth 122 points and a 10 point victory at the Lakers. Not too bad. Just wish my buddy had come through with the courtside seats, bastard.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:44 pm

Good article on a lot of the dumb ass NBA myths that always annoy me.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... uby/051104

blueduke · Post by **blueduke** » Tue Nov 08, 2005 10:37 pm

Mark Cuban gives the NBA TNT trio a thumb to the eye.........

http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000767066290/

Only downer of the night was listening to the idiots on TNT after the game. Its not unusual if we win a TNT game for us to turn it on in the locker room and hear what Charles, Kenny and co have to say. They havent gotten any better.

Let me just say this. There is a reason why Kenny and Charles havent gotten head coaching jobs. THere is more to running a team these days then thinking you know what you are talking about. Kenny, if you want to bust on us for switching on the pick and roll, get some stats to back it up. We track conversion rates on everything we do. High pick and roll, elbow pick and roll, whatever, we track it. If its not working Kenny, we adjust. I know that is probably a new concept to you and Charlie B, but thats the NBA of 2006. With all that money you guys make (hey if you are going to talk salaries, lets see how you like it), go out and hire some kids to track what actually happens in a game rather than having TNT bring in kids to go out and get donuts.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 12:42 pm

blueduke wrote:Mark Cuban gives the NBA TNT trio a thumb to the eye.........

http://www.blogmaverick.com/entry/1234000767066290/

Only downer of the night was listening to the idiots on TNT after the game. Its not unusual if we win a TNT game for us to turn it on in the locker room and hear what Charles, Kenny and co have to say. They havent gotten any better.

Let me just say this. There is a reason why Kenny and Charles havent gotten head coaching jobs. THere is more to running a team these days then thinking you know what you are talking about. Kenny, if you want to bust on us for switching on the pick and roll, get some stats to back it up. We track conversion rates on everything we do. High pick and roll, elbow pick and roll, whatever, we track it. If its not working Kenny, we adjust. I know that is probably a new concept to you and Charlie B, but thats the NBA of 2006. With all that money you guys make (hey if you are going to talk salaries, lets see how you like it), go out and hire some kids to track what actually happens in a game rather than having TNT bring in kids to go out and get donuts.

As usual Cuban swings wildy from having an actual valid point on someting to being an idiot. Here's a textbook case of him being an idiot again. Cuban has this bug up his but that the casual NBA fan wants to hear all about the intricate nature of running a motion offense when all most people want to do is watch an entertaining game and get a few laughs which is what TNT provides. He's clueless on this point.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:11 pm

Cuban hammers on one of the points raised in the ESPN article posted by Reeche. TV does a pretty superficial job of covering the strategy and tactics of the NBA. But that's beside the point. The TNT studio crew's job is to provide entertainment and keep people from flipping channels at halftime and after the game. Cuban's very media savvy--he has to know that.

I am disappointed that NBA TV doesn't do more technical breakdown of the game. The NFL Network has some shows that do this well. Basketball happens so fast that it's hard to analyze on the fly. Hubie Brown and some of the local guys do an OK job of it, but it's impossible to show slow motion replays with telestration, etc. I like NBA TV's old game and Euroleague coverage but they should target more programming to the hardcore audience IMHO. How many times can you show the same highlights in a night?

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:20 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:Cuban hammers on one of the points raised in the ESPN article posted by Reeche. TV does a pretty superficial job of covering the strategy and tactics of the NBA. But that's beside the point. The TNT studio crew's job is to provide entertainment and keep people from flipping channels at halftime and after the game. Cuban's very media savvy--he has to know that.

I am disappointed that NBA TV doesn't do more technical breakdown of the game. The NFL Network has some shows that do this well. Basketball happens so fast that it's hard to analyze on the fly. Hubie Brown and some of the local guys do an OK job of it, but it's impossible to show slow motion replays with telestration, etc. I like NBA TV's old game and Euroleague coverage but they should target more programming to the hardcore audience IMHO. How many times can you show the same highlights in a night?

I agree. If they want to target a hardcore audience for Direct TV or even have a seperate hardcore show on ESPN or TNT that's fine also. His point about trying to turn the broadcast games into some dissertation onto basketball 101 always strike me as bizzare. He's harped on this point on several instances before. You watch Charles and Kenny, Ernie, and occasionally Magic to be entertained and have a good time as you watch the game. You know your not getting some technical textbook analysis of the game and that's the whole point.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 1:39 pm

I watch Charles and Kenny to be entertained. I watch Magic to see him mangle the English language.

But I'd still love to learn more about the Xs & Os.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:31 pm

The strategy shows for the NFL are great. But they would be less useful for the NBA. Strategy in the NBA isn't or shouldn't be that complicated. Work the mismatches to create easy shots for others, play the two-man game if the other team can't switch. For motion offenses, pick away from the ball, etc.

Yes there are more nuances to the NBA game than betrayed by the coverage. But you can't compare the strategical complexity of the NFL, where they're breaking down hours of film each week, involving hundreds or thousands of plays, not to mention generating a game plan which is as thick as a phone book, not to mention use complicated information systems to index all the keys, to any other sport.

More than in football, the NBA game is about individual matchups where one player can dominate the game. If the top 2 or 3 players on a team have decided advantage against just about any defender in the league, then no amount of strategy is going to compare or compensate.

You're not going to run double-picks for AI like Bobby Knight did for Steve Alford because you don't have to. Are you going to run a Doug Moe type of motion offense for Garnett? Are you going to tell Wade not to dribble so much because it's better strategy to move the ball by a series of passes?

The NBA analysts on ESPN are former players. They understand it's a players league. That's not to say a coach can't manage the game and wring extra possessions or convert plays after a time out at crucial points in the game.

I guess Larry Brown now is the highest-paid coach in the league. Knicks are probably expecting miracles or at least the same results as the Pistons. What people forget is that the Pistons were a pretty good team before he joined and then floundered most of his first season until they landed Rasheed. Then Brown became a genius again. I don't think Larry Brown taught the Wallace brothers and Prince how to block shots or that his system took better advantage of their length.

So strategy may be of interest but not to the extent it is in football. For instance, how is Charlie Weiss winning way more with pretty much the same team with the new offense he installed?

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:21 pm

Like I said, nothing wrong with dissecting NBA play. Their is strategy and plays calls and substitutional situation things that happen on each and every trip upcourt. However basketball isn't football. And trying to turn it into the same analysis style of football isn't qa good idea imo. I appreciate both a nuanced deeper look at the NBA and a casual approach. I just don't expect a show like TNT which is supposed to sort of give you a friendly talking s*** in a bar or with your buddies type vibe to suddenly break down a game Jack Ramsay style. Let NBA TV or something do that.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Thu Nov 10, 2005 12:01 am

Cuban also apparently doesn't think player salaries should be discussed by annoucers along with a few other dumb thoughts.

Simmons pretty much owns him in this exchange imo.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/st ... ons/051109

That's what I mean when I say swinging from good idea to bad idea at the drop of a hat.