MVP: Is low-and-away pitch this year's lefty bug?

[Leebo33]

Well, I'm sorry if I opened a big maggot-infested can of worms with this thread.

Don't worry. You actually helped confirm to me that I wasn't crazy. I tried three games last night. The first game I mentioned earlier. Another with -50, -50 pitching (I gave up 7 runs on 7 hits and 3 walks). Then I played a "real" game and it was a really good game. I gave up 2 in the first on a two run jack by Pujols (ironically on a down and outside pitch), but really calmed down after that. Werth hit a HR in the middle innings. I was trailing 2-1 in the 9th. I had 2 runners on with one out and hit a ball to second. I went in hard at second and caused the throw to first to get away, which allowed me to tie it up. I won 3-2 in 11 innings.

[pk500]

Well, I'm sorry if I opened a big maggot-infested can of worms with this thread.

Don't worry. You actually helped confirm to me that I wasn't crazy. I tried three games last night. The first game I mentioned earlier. Another with -50, -50 pitching (I gave up 7 runs on 7 hits and 3 walks). Then I played a "real" game and it was a really good game. I gave up 2 in the first on a two run jack by Pujols (ironically on a down and outside pitch), but really calmed down after that. Werth hit a HR in the middle innings. I was trailing 2-1 in the 9th. I had 2 runners on with one out and hit a ball to second. I went in hard at second and caused the throw to first to get away, which allowed me to tie it up. I won 3-2 in 11 innings.

Leebo:

Sorry to beat this ailing horse, but does your testing seem to infer that the -50/-50 adjustment creates more problems than it solves and that default might be the ticket for the most balanced game of MVP?

I've made no slider adjustments to Pro (I suck), and I'm having a blast.

Take care,
PK

[Brando70]

I actually appreciate people testing this stuff out. I had a very similar experience to Leebo's when I restarted my franchise. I played initially with AS pitching defaults and had a 7-6 game. I deceided I was hitting the meter too easy and cranked down the pitching meters, while also turning down the pitching for the CPU to induce more balls. Next games were 2-1, 2-0, and 2-1 again. Not out of the question for the Cubs staff, but suspicious nonetheless.

So I think I will go back and retest. I think it's probably like what PK said earlier, once you start messing with one slider, it can really screw up something else.

[webdanzer]

I honestly played a dozen games where the cpu was anemic with my sliders tweaked. First game I set them back to default I got hit like I'd never seen. I think there's gotta be *something* there. You guys also seeing/suspecting this...did you also have your swing frequency slider tweaked, or just the user pitching options?

[Brando70]

I honestly played a dozen games where the cpu was anemic with my sliders tweaked. First game I set them back to default I got hit like I'd never seen. I think there's gotta be *something* there.

I totally think you are correct, Web. And I 'm pretty sure it's got something to do with the pitching sliders. In the 7-6 game I had, I kept fouls at +50 and had CPU swing turned way down, but left the pitching sliders for me and the CPU at default. CPU had 21 hits despite me hitting my spots.

The thing is, I know the User Meter slider is not backwards, because the green and gold areas do shrink when you move them down. But a lot of people at OS and here seem to be getting realistic results on default AS settings. So I'm going to try that again and see what happens.

[marino]

I played some more last night on mvp default and the cpu was hitting low and away.

I then adjusted the swing frequency down and they were having less success.Won those games 1-0,2-0-,and 6-1.

I was the National against the red sox.I am convinced the sliders are contributing to this.

[Leebo33]

Sorry to beat this ailing horse, but does your testing seem to infer that the -50/-50 adjustment creates more problems than it solves and that default might be the ticket for the most balanced game of MVP?

It's hard to tell at this point. If I had to guess I would say this. When you miss with the pitching meter at -50, -50 you will throw a lot more balls that the CPU will lay off. If you are pitching on default, you will hit the "sweet spot" more often, but you end up throwing more strikes and the CPU can pound you more often. You end up throwing a lot more hittable pitches. Does that make sense?

When I play at -50, -50 I generally give up a couple walks, less hits, and more homeruns. When I play on default, I generally give up few walks, more singles and doubles, and less homeruns. Ironically, I tend to give up less runs with -50, -50 because if I am hitting the meter the CPU will miss or hit it weakly and if I'm missing the meter the CPU will just take the pitch or hit a solo shot.

[Slumberland]

Sorry to beat this ailing horse, but does your testing seem to infer that the -50/-50 adjustment creates more problems than it solves and that default might be the ticket for the most balanced game of MVP?

I firmly believe that a -50/-50 adjustment for user pitching does not screw up the game. I played about ten games of my franchise with absolute AS defaults, and about fifteen with that adjustment, and the only difference was that pre-change the CPU never scored more than 2 runs (I had a team ERA of 1.70) and after the change they now score anywhere from 0 to 8 runs (with my ERA hovering around 3.00 or just under). Tha change also upped my pitch counts noticeably. Not to real MLB levels, mind you, but it helped.

That said, I don't think it's a necessary change, just one you shouldn't be afraid to make if you want to make pitching slightly harder. I think the foul ball slider is a much more likely culprit in hampering CPU offense, as I imagine it takes instances of iffy contact and artificially guides them to be foul balls.

I haven't messed with the swing frequency sliders. They scare me, and I don't have any real problem with the CPU taking too many hacks.

[Leebo33]

I can see this if you are really good on the meter. If you left it on All-Star default and were always hitting the meter spot you would be really tough to hit. I'm pretty sure I put foul balls on at least 25 when I was playing a dynasty, so that could indeed be the issue.

Something is messing up CPU hitting. We will figure it out sooner or later.

[webdanzer]

I can see this if you are really good on the meter. If you left it on All-Star default and were always hitting the meter spot you would be really tough to hit. I'm pretty sure I put foul balls on at least 25 when I was playing a dynasty, so that could indeed be the issue.

Something is messing up CPU hitting. We will figure it out sooner or later.

Heh, maybe it could be a combination of things. I nail the meter almost all of the time, but yet I got rocked when I finally played my game on default All-Star level. (Of course, I was pitching to the same location )

[Leebo33]

LOL. I love your sig.

This is actually a very good thread. I enjoy MVP so much I'm willing to try different things to see what works. It's not even St. Patrick's day! If we can get this puppy figured out in the next week or so, I'll be in baseball nirvana this summer. It's not like I don't have any fun playing these exhibitions and trying different settings.

[matthewk]

PK, I'm not upset that you asked the question. The best thing to come out of all this was that a bunch of us tested it out and we all learned something about how this game (and it's sliders) work.

If anything it's convinced me that this really is the best game for me this year. I'm still shocked that I prefer MVP to 2k5, but that's what I'm feeling and I'm not going to fight it. I just can't stop playing it, even when I go on a 3 game losing streak. Every gmae is different, and after almost 2 dozen game it still feels fresh. last night was the first time I saw a ball bounce off 2nd base and change directions, and it was totally believable.

Sorry if my tone has been a bit harsh in this thread. I just want to keep enjoying the game and not have that voice in the back of my head wondering if the game is broken. Maybe the lefty bug has made me skittish that way. Anyways, I'm glad to see all the posts confirming that the game is not broken.

Oh, and it looks like I'm going to have to make a trip to pick up WE8 now that PK bought MVP. Damn

[Brando70]

LOL at the sig, Web. This is why I hate sliders. This is also why I loved ESPN baseball. I changed three or four sliders last year and it played great all season.

I do think that the CPU has trouble with imperfect pitches, if that makes sense. It's like they see a bad pitch and get so excited they crap their pants and can't hit. I actually started manipulating the meter more to try and get them to chase -- releasing early on a four-seamer to make it a high ball, for instance, late on sliders to increase the break. I found that I could get them to chase those pitches more easily than if I was aiming outside the zone and throwing a perfect pitch.

[GROGtheNailer]

I remember when there used to be very few sliders or none...was the biggest complaint of the sports gamer.

[NoJoke]

For those of you have issues with pitcher control and have the PC version, if you go to MVP mods there is a datafile published by a guy named spitoon that you might want to look into. He essentially got into the tune file and cut the size of the "perfect" part of the meter in half. Kinda like an old HH tune adjustment. So far it has been great for me, and let me explain why.

Before downloading this tune at Pro, with user control at -50, -50, I could still throw too many perfect pitches. At Allstar, I would walk more CPU batters, but I couldn't hit jack. So I was stuck, I actually needed to be able to pitch at allstar and hit at pro. Well this tune essentially lets you do that. Like I said it shrinks the perfect zone by about half, which makes pitching at pro much more realistic for me. I still can't hit, but at Pro I feel like I at least have a chance, on allstar, I always get shutout and Schilling actually no-hit me. That was an embarrasing first.

Speaking of mods, you should check them out. There is a great mod for all team's uniforms. Kccity or something like that. It is sweet seeing guys at the plate in Nike hightops and batting gloves. Not that I normally care about those things, but when it is gravy on a good game, I can appreciate it. Can't wait until more stadiums are modded.

[btmmayor]

Great post NoJoke. Thanks!!

Stuff like that pitching meter mod is exactly why I picked up the PC version of MVP during the $19.95 CC sale even though I already have the Gamecube version.

[bkrich83]

I honestly played a dozen games where the cpu was anemic with my sliders tweaked. First game I set them back to default I got hit like I'd never seen. I think there's gotta be *something* there. You guys also seeing/suspecting this...did you also have your swing frequency slider tweaked, or just the user pitching options?

Same experience. I had tweaked the pitching sliders like you had Web. All my games were 1-0, 2-1, 2-0 variety, no matter who I had on the mound.

Fired up a game on AS default last night, in a franchise game in which my #5 starter Darrell May was starting. CPU scored 6 runs on 11 hits, and I even gave up a bomb to Jason LaRue.

Final score 6-4, lot more offense, but the game felt just about right. At this point, I am inclined to play AS Default.. Game played perfectly for ME, last night.

[bkrich83]

Not to mention going from MVP to MLB and vice-versa has really messed up my timing in MVP once again. Arrghh!


Todd

Same problem.

As it stands now, I Am going to play MVP for franchise, and MLB for Career mode. I am really digging the career mode in MLB. Just playing my atbats basically.

Ditto for me BK. I'm holding onto MLB 2006 if for nothing else the career mode.

Todd

I gotta tell ya Todd,
I am really having a blast in MLB's career mode. That was worth the price of the game alone for me. MVP does so many things right, and their Dynasty mode seems to be pretty solid this year, so I Am loving that game.

I am about as close to baseball nirvana as I have been in the last 4 or 5 years. At least since HH2002 came out.

[MizzouRah]

Same problem.

As it stands now, I Am going to play MVP for franchise, and MLB for Career mode. I am really digging the career mode in MLB. Just playing my atbats basically.

Ditto for me BK. I'm holding onto MLB 2006 if for nothing else the career mode.

Todd

I gotta tell ya Todd,
I am really having a blast in MLB's career mode. That was worth the price of the game alone for me. MVP does so many things right, and their Dynasty mode seems to be pretty solid this year, so I Am loving that game.

I am about as close to baseball nirvana as I have been in the last 4 or 5 years. At least since HH2002 came out.

That's great news. After reading all the negatives about franchise mode in MLB, I was hoping career mode would be worth the price alone. Heck, it reminds me of ESPN FB - great presentation, but odd glitches in franchise mode. Anyhow, I want to check out the career mode and see what it's about.

MVP is definitly my choice for franchise mode though.


Post some thoughts on career mode when you get a sec.


Thanks - Todd

[bkrich83]

That's great news. After reading all the negatives about franchise mode in MLB, I was hoping career mode would be worth the price alone. Heck, it reminds me of ESPN FB - great presentation, but odd glitches in franchise mode. Anyhow, I want to check out the career mode and see what it's about.

MVP is definitly my choice for franchise mode though.


Post some thoughts on career mode when you get a sec.


Thanks - Todd

Will do. Now that I sort of know what's going on in career mode, I am about to start a new career.

I am really getting in to my MVP dynasty. I Am playing basically the last game of every series and simming the first couple of games. But not quick simming. So I actually am going and selecting my lineups, and then simming the game. That way I still have a handle on game usage and such.

Had so much fun, I even startetd a dynasty site.

http://www.dynastymanager.com/dynasty.cgi?u=bkrich83

[dbdynsty25]

Damn BK...that 5 game losing streak turned out to be a 5 game swing in the rankings...that sucks.

[GridIronGhost]

JRod,

I agree with you. Yep, pitching low and away in real baseball is effective. It’s also generally safer, as I was finding it in the game. I said as much myself in earlier posts. The problem I was having is that the cpu didn’t seem to be adapting *at all*. In real life, if a batter knew all the pitcher was going to do was throw low and away *all the time*, they would get some hits. In MVP, it was simply no fun that you could sit in one zone all game and not worry about batters learning to go there and punish you.

Here’s where I eat crow, so heap up my plate, boys, I’m late for dinner.

I just played a game on all-star default and got pounded by the Cardinals. I gave up 10 runs for the game, I had Pavano stay in for all of it. It felt like a completely different game than what I had been playing. My jaw was to the floor.

In true WTF mode, I hit ‘rematch’, changed the sliders to my profile settings and promptly pitched a 6 hit 1 run gem. Same pitchers, same team, same strategy of just pitching low and outside. The even the one run was scored cheaply as a tiring Pavano gave up two walks and a single in the seventh.

My settings where different from default were as follows:

Pitching difficulty -50
User control -50
Foul balls cpu +40
Foul balls user +40
CPU Swing Frequency -10

That’s it.

JRod just mentioned that he thinks the foul ball settings mess up hitting. I’d be curious to hear more about that. In my case, I think it was the swing frequency setting. When I was getting punished in that first game, all settings at 0, *almost all* of the thumped hits…homers, doubles, etc were happening on the VERY FIRST PITCH of the at bat. Like I said, it felt like a different game. I don’t know if Leebo, you recall a similar pattern of first ball thumping.

Anyway, it seems like I may have f***ed the game up with the sliders. (Not the gurus’ fault, nor the fault of the sliders themselves…my fault )

I’m also more inclined to think it was the swing frequency setting because with the foul balls jacked I had a nice offensive game in the second game, plating 9.

For all I know, the CPU analyzes your past pitching pattern and utilizes that to ‘guess’ on the first pitch of the next at bat. Maybe if my setting thwarted that, it goes to some other mode when behind in the count. I can’t stress enough how different the two experiences were, and how different that first game was from anything I had been experiencing for the past few days. Maybe I'm wrong to reverse myself after such little evidence, but more than just the result, the game played differently.

I guess this means I’ll have to live with lower pitch counts and more first ball hitting, but I don’t care at this point.

And damned if I’m not sorry for making a bit of a ruckus, here. I’ve been playing games long enough to know that my settings could have f***ed things up. Thankfully, I’ve also been here long enough to know that when I see a certain bunch of names here on DSP seeing things vastly different than from what I’m seeing, there’s a good chance *I’m* the one doing something wrong.

So thanks, guys. Feel free to hit me with whatever ‘told-ya-so’s’ or denigrations you want to hurl my way.

I’d be curious to hear if any others notice such a dramatic change if they tweak that frequency slider.

Do you have pitching difficulty @ -50? If so, that's making pitching easier. Set it at 0 or 25 or 50...but not -50.

[TRI]

JRod,

I agree with you. Yep, pitching low and away in real baseball is effective. It’s also generally safer, as I was finding it in the game. I said as much myself in earlier posts. The problem I was having is that the cpu didn’t seem to be adapting *at all*. In real life, if a batter knew all the pitcher was going to do was throw low and away *all the time*, they would get some hits. In MVP, it was simply no fun that you could sit in one zone all game and not worry about batters learning to go there and punish you.

Here’s where I eat crow, so heap up my plate, boys, I’m late for dinner.

I just played a game on all-star default and got pounded by the Cardinals. I gave up 10 runs for the game, I had Pavano stay in for all of it. It felt like a completely different game than what I had been playing. My jaw was to the floor.

In true WTF mode, I hit ‘rematch’, changed the sliders to my profile settings and promptly pitched a 6 hit 1 run gem. Same pitchers, same team, same strategy of just pitching low and outside. The even the one run was scored cheaply as a tiring Pavano gave up two walks and a single in the seventh.

My settings where different from default were as follows:

Pitching difficulty -50
User control -50
Foul balls cpu +40
Foul balls user +40
CPU Swing Frequency -10

That’s it.

JRod just mentioned that he thinks the foul ball settings mess up hitting. I’d be curious to hear more about that. In my case, I think it was the swing frequency setting. When I was getting punished in that first game, all settings at 0, *almost all* of the thumped hits…homers, doubles, etc were happening on the VERY FIRST PITCH of the at bat. Like I said, it felt like a different game. I don’t know if Leebo, you recall a similar pattern of first ball thumping.

Anyway, it seems like I may have f***ed the game up with the sliders. (Not the gurus’ fault, nor the fault of the sliders themselves…my fault )

I’m also more inclined to think it was the swing frequency setting because with the foul balls jacked I had a nice offensive game in the second game, plating 9.

For all I know, the CPU analyzes your past pitching pattern and utilizes that to ‘guess’ on the first pitch of the next at bat. Maybe if my setting thwarted that, it goes to some other mode when behind in the count. I can’t stress enough how different the two experiences were, and how different that first game was from anything I had been experiencing for the past few days. Maybe I'm wrong to reverse myself after such little evidence, but more than just the result, the game played differently.

I guess this means I’ll have to live with lower pitch counts and more first ball hitting, but I don’t care at this point.

And damned if I’m not sorry for making a bit of a ruckus, here. I’ve been playing games long enough to know that my settings could have f***ed things up. Thankfully, I’ve also been here long enough to know that when I see a certain bunch of names here on DSP seeing things vastly different than from what I’m seeing, there’s a good chance *I’m* the one doing something wrong.

So thanks, guys. Feel free to hit me with whatever ‘told-ya-so’s’ or denigrations you want to hurl my way.

I’d be curious to hear if any others notice such a dramatic change if they tweak that frequency slider.

Do you have pitching difficulty @ -50? If so, that's making pitching easier. Set it at 0 or 25 or 50...but not -50.

I find it much easier to throw the perfect pitch with the pitch meter difficulty at -30 than default. The CPU also seems to hit better at default. I am beginning to think that pitching meter difficulty may be reversed even though the apparent green zone is smaller at -50 than default.

[bkrich83]

Damn BK...that 5 game losing streak turned out to be a 5 game swing in the rankings...that sucks.

Yeah, my Pads are really scuffling right now.

[Slumberland]

Gridiron, the green zone is clearly smaller with the meter difficulty set to -50. And TRI, I'm not buying the 'meter reversed' theory without some hard evidence, especially in light of the OBVIOUS shrinkage of the sweet spot on -50.