ESPN NFL 2K5 DSP/Blog League Week One!

Post by **Jared** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:56 am

seanmac31 wrote:For what it's worth, it looks to me like you don't have to play your games in order. If you just move ahead in the schedule to a later week, you can play another opponent, should you not feel like waiting around for that one guy to contact you.

Really? Wow...that's pretty cool if you can. So great leaders Dan and Bill...are we allowed to play the games out of order. Or do we have to do it on a week by week basis?

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:58 am

Jared wrote:
seanmac31 wrote:For what it's worth, it looks to me like you don't have to play your games in order. If you just move ahead in the schedule to a later week, you can play another opponent, should you not feel like waiting around for that one guy to contact you.
Really? Wow...that's pretty cool if you can. So great leaders Dan and Bill...are we allowed to play the games out of order. Or do we have to do it on a week by week basis?

I really don't thin that is true. How would the game handlew injuries and trades if Team A is on week 4 and Team B is on week 2? I really think you're mistaken on this.

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:16 am

I'll double check, but I did wander into the second week of the schedule and it looked like it might be possible...

seanmac31 · Post by **seanmac31** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:51 am

I take it back. You have to wait for the week to wrap up.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:01 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
Badgun wrote:I tell you, Bill. I haven't touched this game since Madden came out and going back to it really shows off its faults. I'd rather have Madden's super dbs any day than what I saw tonight. I mean when you call pass coverage and nobody covers there's got to be something wrong. I loved this game when it first came out, but after playing Madden for the past month, I can't see how you guys can play it. I'll probably go 0-16 in the league because I won't touch it except for league play.
Apparently you need to read PK's little rant about adjusting your coverages according to the formation and personell that the offense uses. You can't just play ESPN like you do Madden...there is a little more involved so you actually feel like you're playing the game. At least that's the way I feel about it. I like Madden too, don't get me wrong...it just seems a little 'dumbed' down to me. Obviously for the mainstream. LOL.

(Bite, bite)

Madden dumbed down? Give me a break! Maybe Madden's DBs are too fast and maybe they jump too high, but I've watched how they cover receivers and it's just as involved, if not moreso than ESPN. If I call Nickel defense you'd think at least one of the 6 DBs would be near a receiver, wouldn't you?

I played ESPN extensively before Madden came out and I've played it every year since the Dreamcast days. There's nothing any more involved than it is in Madden. If anything, ESPN's controls are dumbed down. Maybe it's just a matter of personal preference now, but at least I know in Madden on 3rd and 18 if I call a Nickel or Dime I will have someone in the area. Please tell me what miracle play I need to call in ESPN to get some coverage on that play. Cover 3 won't do it?

Maybe it's because I've played over 40 online games and 2 seasons of my franchise in Madden and I've just gotten used to it, but ESPN just doesn't feel like football anymore. I don't mind people defending the game, I defended it once myself, but please don't insult my intelligence with some bullsh*t like it requires some grand level of cerebral intellect to play pass defense in this game. That's just another bullsh*t coverup for how fu*ked the DB AI is.

Sudz · Post by **Sudz** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:18 am

looks like WASHINGTON is no where to be found....

i'm New Orleans.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:03 am

Sudz wrote:looks like WASHINGTON is no where to be found....

i'm New Orleans.

If he is a no show I have a guy lined up to play, don't sweat it. I sent him a PM as well via the messenger, so I have no idea what this guy is doing. Some people are born to tick me off, I am convinced of that.

BG I gotta tell ya I think this has a whole lot more to do with coverages than it does the game being broken. The game I played against Buffalo was extremely tight (14-10) and my secondary played well in shutting down the passing game, for the most part. I think they were 9/22 for 150 yards. (Of course Craig decided to play Losman rather than Bledsoe..) The AI isn't foolproof by any stretch, but the right calls can certainly nullify certain plays. And believe me I was trying to score more than 10 points. What kind of plays were they? Streaks? Posts? Flags?

I do hate it when the safeties play the circle jerk game and do their spin motion, but that usually only happens when you call a coverage that doesnt make sense. I did that last night when playing a buddy online. He called a 5 WR set and I came out in a dime and for some reason I told my safety to double a WR. He sends his RB in motion wide right, and my safety didnt know who to cover..and the result was a 70 yard TD to a wide open receiver. Lesson learned.

Of course I have no clue how your game went, but I will say that if you are calling a defensive play and not making adjustments at the line, or are trying to double team out of a base man with 4 WR sets then you're gonna get cooked. (And I assume you are waiting to call a defensive package after you see the base formation the offense has called.)

When I played Buffalo, I would adjust my DB coverage at the line every play (and usually the LBs, too) and usually took my safety who was in zone and double teamed Moulds or Evans. It didn't result in a total shutdown but their longest pass was 24 yards.

Of course, you went up against Indy and for all I know Manning and Marvin might be unstoppable, but when I see Ben Hartsock scoring on a 70 yard TD, that strikes me as officially weird. I could outrun Hartsock.

In retrospect I wish we would have started the league with EQ turned On, because it helps DB AI while allowing players to still play to their strengths, but we can't change it after the league has started.

And for the record you are a braver man than I. When I go back and forth between Madden and ESPN I end up sucking at both because they feel so different.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:25 am

Bill Abner wrote:

Of course, you went up against Indy and for all I know Manning and Marvin might be unstoppable, but when I see Ben Hartsock scoring on a 70 yard TD, that strikes me as officially weird. I could outrun Hartsock.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That was a bit of a fluke. Badgune went either Bear or Goal Line D (can't recall) on a 3rd and inches situation. I audibled into a pass and audibled Speedy Hartsock into a fly. He ran a good route and Manning delivered a quick strike. The FS got a hand on him, but Ben shrugged him off and rumbled home.

--------------------------And for the record you are a braver man than I. When I go back and forth between Madden and ESPN I end up sucking at both because they feel so different.
-----------------
That was exactly what happened to me last year, and it's the reason I'm staying football monogamous this year. The games are obviously close enough in quality that I don't mind sticking with just one.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:32 am

Badgun wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:
Badgun wrote:I tell you, Bill. I haven't touched this game since Madden came out and going back to it really shows off its faults. I'd rather have Madden's super dbs any day than what I saw tonight. I mean when you call pass coverage and nobody covers there's got to be something wrong. I loved this game when it first came out, but after playing Madden for the past month, I can't see how you guys can play it. I'll probably go 0-16 in the league because I won't touch it except for league play.
Apparently you need to read PK's little rant about adjusting your coverages according to the formation and personell that the offense uses. You can't just play ESPN like you do Madden...there is a little more involved so you actually feel like you're playing the game. At least that's the way I feel about it. I like Madden too, don't get me wrong...it just seems a little 'dumbed' down to me. Obviously for the mainstream. LOL.

(Bite, bite)
Madden dumbed down? Give me a break! Maybe Madden's DBs are too fast and maybe they jump too high, but I've watched how they cover receivers and it's just as involved, if not moreso than ESPN. If I call Nickel defense you'd think at least one of the 6 DBs would be near a receiver, wouldn't you?

Actually in Madden, all 6 DBs will always be around your receiver, no matter which receiver you throw to.

Seriously, Bad, I don't know what happened. I know in my Detroit-Chicago game, our secondaries played pretty solid ball, and they are just above average. There was only one play where someone got 100% wide open (Charles Rogers, who promptly dropped the pass in the endzone). I have certainly seen the safeties blow it with the stupid circle move, but rarely have I seen them just flat out miss coverages, especially in zone.

I hadn't touched ESPN in a couple weeks either before my game, except to play an exhibition an hour before as a warm up, and I was rusty as hell. I think I had 14 yards of offense at the half. But by the third quarter it started coming back and I felt more comfortable. I'd just say to maybe try your coverages out in practice mode and see what's working. Better than facing 15 more frustrating games in the league.

spooky157 · Post by **spooky157** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:07 am

Seattle - 3, Arizona - 0

No defensive AI issues in that game. Yikes...

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:22 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:(Bite, bite)

Badgun wrote:I don't mind people defending the game, I defended it once myself, but please don't insult my intelligence with some bullsh*t like it requires some grand level of cerebral intellect to play pass defense in this game. That's just another bullsh*t coverup for how fu*ked the DB AI is.

See my quote above...I knew you'd flip out...I was totally generalizing and that's wrong, but that's just how I feel about it. It just seems to me Madden does a little more hand-holding than ESPN does. Does that mean I'm right...no, but it is the way I feel about it and everyone sees things differently. Relax bro, I wasn't criticizing your 'cerebral intellect' whatever the f*ck that is.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:25 am

spooky157 wrote:Seattle - 3, Arizona - 0

No defensive AI issues in that game. Yikes...

That is AWESOME.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:32 am

Bill,
On one play I'm guessing it was pretty much a straight fly route and Harrison was a good 10 yards past my cb. Of course my safety was over in the middle of the field jerking off or someting. I don't remember what defense I called, but when you've got 3rd and 18, you can bet that I wasn't in goal line formation.

Even playing Madden for so long, I still am very familiar with the defensive schemes of ESPN. As a matter of fact, before they did the stat reset, I had about 25 games online in ESPN and had been excellent against the pass. I usually will stick with NIckel, Dime, or Bear defenses all the time because all are good against the pass and I've been able to stop the run with them as well. Keep in mind that most people online are pass happy anyway so that's just how my game is geared.

Don't get me wrong, I will shoulder some of the blame since I haven't touched the game in over a month, but still he had 3 instances where his receivers were so open it looked like blown coverages and this is with very safe nickel and dime defenses. There's just no way that they should have run by my defenders like that.

Badgun · Post by **Badgun** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:39 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:(Bite, bite)

Badgun wrote:I don't mind people defending the game, I defended it once myself, but please don't insult my intelligence with some bullsh*t like it requires some grand level of cerebral intellect to play pass defense in this game. That's just another bullsh*t coverup for how fu*ked the DB AI is.
See my quote above...I knew you'd flip out...I was totally generalizing and that's wrong, but that's just how I feel about it. It just seems to me Madden does a little more hand-holding than ESPN does. Does that mean I'm right...no, but it is the way I feel about it and everyone sees things differently. Relax bro, I wasn't criticizing your 'cerebral intellect' whatever the f*ck that is.

db,
When you say hand holding, I can understand. But why is that a bad thing? I know I don't want to micromanage 11 guys before every snap and if we agree that both Sega and EA are targeting the everyday schmoe for their games, then we know that they don't want to micromanage either.

For the record I am familiar with both ESPN and Madden's pre-snap options and I find Madden's much more intuitive and easy to use. Call it hand holding, call it what you will, but Sega does the same thing.

It's funny, but there's a long thread over at OS about the poor DB AI in ESPN and almost everyone that defends it uses the "you have to think more to play this game" crutch.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:43 am

There's no doubt that both games are very flawed in terms of DB AI. My point is that you need to micromanage a bit more in ESPN so that you aren't leaving receivers wide freakin' open. Madden pretty much adjusts for you.

If I see a wide receiver wide open in ESPN it's pretty much my fault. If I call a zone and I cheat with my safety to watch the run and the WR runs right by my short zoned DB...it's my fault. You don't see that in Madden cuz no matter what the coverage, the DB's can recover because of their speed. I think that's the main issue on this topic.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:59 am

Combo Zones are your friend.

Seriously, if I am ever in a situation that it is 3rd and Long I run a Combo Zone. For whatever reason I have decent success.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:59 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:
spooky157 wrote:Seattle - 3, Arizona - 0

No defensive AI issues in that game. Yikes...
That is AWESOME.

Well, sorta. They lost connection at the start of the 4th quarter. Still, 3-0 after 3 is pretty wild.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:05 pm

So wait...the game calls it a completed game if you lose connection? The person leading gets the win and the person trailing gets the loss? That's strange.

I wish it would just reset the stats and let you play it over again.

How are we doing on finding a replacement for the guy who never answers?

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:21 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:So wait...the game calls it a completed game if you lose connection? The person leading gets the win and the person trailing gets the loss? That's strange.

I wish it would just reset the stats and let you play it over again.

How are we doing on finding a replacement for the guy who never answers?

It appears that is the case.

I have a guy, I'm 90% confident, that will take over Washington if the guy fails to show. But also, the Dallas/Atlanta guys have been dead silent, too, so that game may have to be forfeit as well. I dunno how it works but I hope Dan can give Hip a W of the Wash game needs to be forfeited.

If anyone out there wants in, there's a good chance that Atlanta and/or Dallas will be available. (Sorry BG you can't change teams lol) On the whole I'm very happy with how week 1 went. With 32 teams having 3 potential bad eggs is a very good ratio for stuff like this. The Atlanta guy and the Washington guy came in together so if one bails the other may too.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:26 pm

I would be interested in stepping in with Dallas if they go no-show.

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:29 pm

I truly hate when people not only don't show up but don't even participate in the league (on the forums, trades etc.).

If EQ on truly makes the game better I have no problem with starting over and replacing deadbeats with participants.

I'd love to have a rematch with the Dogpound!

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:36 pm

TCrouch wrote:I would be interested in stepping in with Dallas if they go no-show.

Noooooooooooooooooooooo...there's one loss on my season.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:48 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Noooooooooooooooooooooo...there's one loss on my season.

Nah, I pretty much suck at this year's version. I'm a .500 team if everything goes right...and that's a big if.

Bill_Abner · Post by **Bill_Abner** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 12:49 pm

laurenskye wrote:I truly hate when people not only don't show up but don't even participate in the league (on the forums, trades etc.).

If EQ on truly makes the game better I have no problem with starting over and replacing deadbeats with participants.

I'd love to have a rematch with the Dogpound!

I'd be for doing that too bit I dunno how others would feel.

I need to play a few more games with EQ on to make sure it's a better game but everyone I talk to and everything I read says it's the only way to play ESPN online.

ILikePie · Post by **ILikePie** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:06 pm

The Dalls Atlanta Guys have not been dead quiet. We have tried to play twice, both times not letting us. We will continue trying. Not our fault.