Mario Kart Wii

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:02 am

Looking to play a little Mario Kart this evening if anyone is interested. After a couple nights of GTA, I'm ready for something a bit more laid back.

Anyone interested? I'll post my gamer code when I get home from work.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:42 am

This game is a blast to play. I was able to put some time in last night offline, and what an entertaining game this is. I will admit I'm struggling on the lowest level at the moment. I ran through four or five races and finished third overall.

I'm still learning the little nuances to the game. It's helped to read the manual as I didn't realize what exactly helps add boost.

My intentions were to play a mission or two of GTA, but once I started playing this game, I was sucked in. Great change of pace.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:21 am

I'm tempted to pick this up because I'm sure my son will love it, but I really can't stand the 'disincentives' (as Penny Arcade puts it) to do well early and take the lead. That type of gameplay drives me insane, which is why Diddy Kong Racing on the N-64 is my favorite kart racer of all time. Hell of a lot less of that kinda crap.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:26 am

Web,

I'm afraid you'll find yourself frustrated with this game. Every race seasaws back and forth. When you're in the bottom three, you're cursing the game, but then you find yourself with "bullet bill", and you're back close to the top. The CPU is quite aggressive, and I'm playing on the lowest level. It's certainly not unusual to get hit by a blue shell or struck by lightning on the last half of the final lap when you're feeling pretty confident. It can be pretty unnerving. But, it's Mario Kart, not Forza.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Thu May 08, 2008 10:26 am

I don't find the "disincentive" stuff to be as bad as perhaps advertised. Taking good lines, managing turbo, and course knowledge are more of a factor. 1st place is overrated anyway... with some of these cats from around the world 3rd and 4th will feel like quite an achievement. I like that you only need to finish in the top half to raise your driver score.

I mostly play online though. Offline is just for unlocking stuff in my book. Against the CPU you are slightly f*cked, but not so much really. Against a field of 12 online, everyone's pretty much f*cked.

vader29 · Post by **vader29** » Thu May 08, 2008 6:42 pm

I finished all of the 50cc races in either 1st or 2nd place except for one in which I think I finished 3rd or 4th, once I got out to a lead it wasn't too hard to get back out in front after getting knocked back a few spots, using the powerups at the right moments and getting a feel for the perfect route to take to avoid the obstacles on the tracks was the main strategy for me.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Fri May 09, 2008 12:13 am

The beauty of Kart is that there is tons of strategy sometimes and then there is absolutely no strategy sometimes.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Fri May 09, 2008 8:30 pm

Rodster wrote:My code is 3437-3653-5500

I added Scoop to my friends list.

I just added you tonight. Anyone else?

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri May 09, 2008 8:47 pm

webdanzer wrote: I'm tempted to pick this up because I'm sure my son will love it, but I really can't stand the 'disincentives' (as Penny Arcade puts it) to do well early and take the lead. That type of gameplay drives me insane, which is why Diddy Kong Racing on the N-64 is my favorite kart racer of all time. Hell of a lot less of that kinda crap.

I don't know this version, but Mario Kart has always been all about timing. Being in first at the end of lap one is pointless. The goal is to be first at the end of lap 3 (or 4 or whatever). You develop a sense of how to set yourself up to take the lead at the best time as you play the game more and more.

Yes, frustrations abound (that old ghost house map used to drive me nuts in whatever version until I got the hang of the course), but the excitement and fun of the game are unmatched. Multiplayer was always the best, and back in the old days, it was extra nice to be able to play split-screen with a friend, but with a full field filled out by AI.

I really need to get a Wii so I can play online with you jokers. Hmmm . . .

OH, and Web I should also note, the 'disincentive' idea didn't seem to bother you too much in ShadowRun, where getting out to a big lead in a match gave your team a big disadvantage to winning from round to round. I found the Mario Karts' set up to be more like that than the 'sky is falling' idea the Penny Arcade strip is promoting. Of course, making a broad point with hyperbole is what their strip is all about, not knocking it, but c'mon.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Fri May 09, 2008 9:33 pm

Zeppo wrote: I found the Mario Karts' set up to be more like that than the 'sky is falling' idea the Penny Arcade strip is promoting. Of course, making a broad point with hyperbole is what their strip is all about, not knocking it, but c'mon.

I think part of their sentiment also stems from the cumulative effect of Nintendo using this design philosophy in so many of its games. IMO it's one of the things that gives a less-than-hardcore vibe to so manyl of Nintendo's offerings.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:07 pm

My code is 2492-4851-6179

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:11 pm

I've added everyone. Ready to race sometime soon!

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Fri May 09, 2008 10:55 pm

RobVarak wrote: I think part of their sentiment also stems from the cumulative effect of Nintendo using this design philosophy in so many of its games. IMO it's one of the things that gives a less-than-hardcore vibe to so manyl of Nintendo's offerings.

Oh I see, so it's not the goofy characters or the out-of-this-world physics?

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sat May 10, 2008 1:57 am

Zeppo wrote:
RobVarak wrote: I think part of their sentiment also stems from the cumulative effect of Nintendo using this design philosophy in so many of its games. IMO it's one of the things that gives a less-than-hardcore vibe to so manyl of Nintendo's offerings.
Oh I see, so it's not the goofy characters or the out-of-this-world physics?

Actually, I think gamers would be able to call a game "serious" despite the wacky mascots and loosey-goosey physics if they didn't go out of their way to give a hand up to people getting crushed. LOL

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Sat May 10, 2008 11:31 pm

Well, as I shopped for mother's day gifts, I was looking to take the plunge and buy the Wii so I could Kart tonight.

Good luck with that.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:00 am

Zeppo wrote: OH, and Web I should also note, the 'disincentive' idea didn't seem to bother you too much in ShadowRun, where getting out to a big lead in a match gave your team a big disadvantage to winning from round to round. I found the Mario Karts' set up to be more like that than the 'sky is falling' idea the Penny Arcade strip is promoting. Of course, making a broad point with hyperbole is what their strip is all about, not knocking it, but c'mon.

How is the PA strip hyperbole about this point? If you take a lead in MK, you're very, very likely to get clobbered with a blue shell, no? (honest question)

I don't think the balancing between MK and SR are even close, to be honest with you. In Shadowrun, in fact, there were quite a bunch of guys who felt that winning early was too much of an advantage, as the winning team got more money and quicker access to new abilities. Who would argue that being ahead on lap one in a Mario Kart game is any sort of advantage whatsoever.

In addition, the balancing given to the SR teams...more and longer rezzes for the losers, less for the winners, etc. still left skill as a large deciding factor in each round. If one side was simply not getting killed and doing a much better job of killing, you'd still see shutouts. In MK, it almost makes the endings completely random, and the catch-ups are auto-targeting and extremely effective! I guess if you wanted a straight SR analogy, it would be that the losing team could pick up a power-up somewhere that automatically made the winning artifact carrying team explode, or something like that.

Anyway, I know how MK kart games are played, and I do think my son will like it so I'll probably grab it eventually.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:39 am

webdanzer wrote:
How is the PA strip hyperbole about this point? If you take a lead in MK, you're very, very likely to get clobbered with a blue shell, no? (honest question)

Simply the inclusion of the Beijing Olympic logo is where the hyperbole comes from, for me. There is absolutely no relationship between a Nintendo racing game and a true athletic competition, nor would Nintendo expect one to make such an equation. MK is and always has been a videogame based on fun and intentionally balanced, like so many NIN games, so that players of varying skill and experience can compete together and have a lot of fun. It's not meant to be a 'hardcore', Major League Gaming kind of thing.

webdanzer wrote:I don't think the balancing between MK and SR are even close, to be honest with you. In Shadowrun, in fact, there were quite a bunch of guys who felt that winning early was too much of an advantage, as the winning team got more money and quicker access to new abilities.

Well, I think they were wrong. The amount of extra money you got on the winning team, versus the lack of money you got if, say, you survived the round on the losing team, was very minimal. The penalties the team that was ahead received were much more subtle and hard to notice for players who didn't play the game a lot, because there were no road signs or a list, but they were very real and could have a huge impact on the balance of the round. Being able to rez several times rather than once, or the difference in clearing bodies had a huge affect on the balance of the round, far more than the little difference in money.

webdanzer wrote:In addition, the balancing given to the SR teams...more and longer rezzes for the losers, less for the winners, etc. still left skill as a large deciding factor in each round. If one side was simply not getting killed and doing a much better job of killing, you'd still see shutouts. In MK, it almost makes the endings completely random, and the catch-ups are auto-targeting and extremely effective!

There is plenty of room for skill in MK as well as defense. Except for the purple turtle shell, and I'm not even sure if that is indefensible, you can block any attack by holding a banana or something behind you in 'ready mode.' The triple turtle shell can block three attacks. You are not entirely vulnerable when you are ahead.

I guess I just like the game. I haven't played the newest one, nor the gamecube one, but in all the MK games I played alone, and more, against human opponents with AI filling the grid, I never felt there was a lack of balance or fairness to the game. In fact, it was always remarkable to me how well balanced the game was. Better skill generally did equate to better results, but that skill wasn't limited to simply being able to drive better, but rather being able to manage the race better, use the speed-boost powered short cuts, time the use of the better weapons more effectively, etc. And when the objectively better player lost a round, or *gasp* a whole game due to bad luck or whatever, there certainly wasn't any throwing of the controller in disgust and storming out of the room. It was pretty much laughter and high fives, and 'that was fun.' I would never have equated the kind of fun I had in an MK game with something remotely serious, like the Olympics.

I guess we just have different perspectives on this sort of thing. I like handicapping, at least when gaming among friends. In racing games for example, even realistic ones, I prefer to have better drivers in worse cars and not as good drivers in better cars, so that you can have a competitive race, or in a sports game I prefer to have the better player take a worse team, and to try to find that balance where a good game results. Video games aren't generally about proving who is absolutely or objectively better, for me, but rather for having fun and exciting well balanced competition that isn't decided until the end. I never felt the old MKs were cheap, but that they were consistently tons of fun, no matter how broad the range of skills among the players I competed with. The Olympics? Provide a level playing field and may the best man win.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun May 11, 2008 9:46 am

I don't think there's any defense against the blue shell. I've been clobbered with bananas hanging from the back or the triple shells activated.

I don't mind the rubber band AI in MK. In fact that's what makes it so much fun. It's never a guaranteed easy win.

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Sun May 11, 2008 12:40 pm

webdanzer wrote:Who would argue that being ahead on lap one in a Mario Kart game is any sort of advantage whatsoever.

I'll take that one. I'm talking mostly from an online perspective here though, although there are times when I can get way ahead in the single player racing in the various cups.

I absolutely want to be in the front when racing online. Getting in front early is crucial in winning races. When you are bunched up with the pack it is incredibly chaotic with racers bashing into one another and weapons flying everywhere. If you can get out front you have more room, its easier to hit corners and drift boost and its much, much easier to defend yourself. When out front you will usually get bananas or a green shell which can defend against red and green shells when placed behind the kart. You can negate the loss in speed from the POW blocks by tricking on the 3rd quake. Blooper oil is not a factor if you know the track.

That leaves lightning, which I never get often when in front, and blue shells. The blue shells can be avoided if you have a mushroom or golden mushroom. Hit the boost just as the shell points down. Its not that difficult to do once you get the timing but its difficult to get a mushroom when in front (I would rather have another item anyway though as red shells come much more frequently than blue ones). Typically though, if I am in front I can get a big enough lead from the rest of the pack because that is where the mayhem really happens as they are all drilling themselves with the various weapons. By that time a hit from a blue shell comes (you will usually only have to worry about 1 during the course of an online race) it does not negatively impact me enough because I am far enough out front of everyone else.

If you know how to play the game well, and I'm talking the Wii version specifically here, the weapons really are not that hard to deal with. Sure, once in a while I'll get hit and lose a race because of it, but I absolutely want to be out front where I can get distance from the rest of the pack.

Bottom line.....if I'm in front early, I will usually win the race. If I'm not, I usually won't. Those that believe Mario Kart Wii is just a random rubber-band mess have not played the Wii version or are not very good (again, I'm speaking from an online, against other people perspective). I have not enjoyed a Mario Kart since the original SNES version but Nintendo really did a great job balancing the Wii version in my opinion. My only complaint with the game is what I posted earlier......the advantage of choosing automatic drifting over manual. Thats a whole different story.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Sun May 11, 2008 1:38 pm

MK online is pure genius! Simple as that.

No rubber-band AI at all (obviously) but what you do have and will always have is the randomness of the prizes. Sometimes they go your way, sometimes they don't. I have had PLENTY of races where I did not see one blue shell at all so the 1st place racer was pretty much unaffected. As true MK players know there is TONS of strategy in MK games and the Wii version adds to that in spades. Placement of peels, bombs, etc... Knowing when to launch your red/green shells... Timely speed bursts... Drifting... Using peels as a shield...the list goes on and on.

Zeppo, Go and find a Wii goddammit! You NEED in on this.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Sun May 11, 2008 4:56 pm

Zeppo wrote:Being in first at the end of lap one is pointless.

btmmayor wrote:Getting in front early is crucial in winning races.

Well now THAT is cleared up...

Seriously, BTM, I get that you are stressing the online component. Would you consider the 1p mode vs the cpu to be more 'cheap?' And why haven't you liked other recent MK releases?

Zeppo wrote:Video games aren't generally about proving who is absolutely or objectively better, for me, but rather for having fun and exciting well balanced competition that isn't decided until the end.

I play a lot of the time for the same reasons, but...

Spooky wrote:... what you do have and will always have is the randomness of the prizes. Sometimes they go your way, sometimes they don't.

That being the case, I'd prefer to play a game that is fun and well balanced and decided until the end by one player playing doing something better than the others, not by the caprice of random power ups. When BTM says he usually wins when he is in first, I'm guessing when he doesn't it's usually because of an unlucky combination of power ups...but that is an assumption, so ass/me etc...

Anyway, I'll give it a try. I'm talking too much for someone who has yet to play, and I'm encouraged because BTM is saying it's much better than other MKs.

No matter the case, I'm sure my son will enjoy 1p, where it will teach the valuable life lesson that leaving the hard work to others while cruising around for a while only to orchestrate a carefully planned sabotage at a crucial moment will be highly rewarded!

How to succeed in business the Mario way!

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Sun May 11, 2008 8:28 pm

webdanzer wrote:Would you consider the 1p mode vs the cpu to be more 'cheap?' And why haven't you liked other recent MK releases?

Yes it is more cheap. I don't mind the items that racers get when in the back (although you will get hit with more items in single player than you ever will online). What I really hate is rubber-band A.I. that makes the guys in front slower and/or the guys in back faster. This was really bad in MK on the N64. I still believe its there slightly on the Wii (single player only) as its very, very rare to get any real separation but it is in no way near the garbage that was present in the N64. The only MK games I have liked are the original and the GBA version (Super Circuit which was based on the original with the "Mode 7" graphics). Neither one of those games had any catch-up speed logic in single or multiplayer which can't be said for any of the more recent MK releases. In fact I flat out will not play any racer that has catch-up speed logic (the early Burnouts, Metropolis Street Racer, MK64 to name a few).

webdanzer wrote:When BTM says he usually wins when he is in first, I'm guessing when he doesn't it's usually because of an unlucky combination of power ups...but that is an assumption, so ass/me etc....

There are plenty of times when I screw up myself due to trying to hit the blue ramp boosts on the sides, taking shorcuts or just by hitting course obstacles like the Mii cars in Coconut mall or the many obstacles in Bowsers Castle. There are very few times where I feel I have been screwed over because of items when racing online. Learning how to defend yourself and using the items and course to your advantage is all about what makes Mario Kart fun to begin with. If I race the course perfectly and don't run myself into a pool of lava or crash into a penquin I will 9 out of 10 times have a chance to win the race. MK Wii online absolutely rewards the players skill.

webdanzer wrote:because BTM is saying it's much better than other MKs.

Online. Without the online component I would not be enjoying this one any more than Double Dash or MK64 as very little has changed when it comes to racing the CPU. I bought the Wii version for the kids but I really, really enjoy the online racing and felt the need to chime in when I see people saying that it just involves random luck and that there is no need to lead laps early in the race. This is just absolutely not true. Getting an early lead and separating from the pack is vital to winning races in my experiences when racing online.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Sun May 11, 2008 8:41 pm

He really is right...Human vs. Human is absolutely NO comparison to Human vs. CPU in MK. A totally different (better, more 'true') experience. Human vs. Human with some CPU mixed in isn't bad either.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am

btmmayor wrote:I really, really enjoy the online racing and felt the need to chime in when I see people saying that it just involves random luck and that there is no need to lead laps early in the race. This is just absolutely not true. Getting an early lead and separating from the pack is vital to winning races in my experiences when racing online.

I totally agree! Being in 1st without a large cushion is indeed not without pitfalls... and can easily lead to a late turn of events and a finish in the bottom half. But what are the alternatives? Build a commanding lead (which is tough) that can weather a blue shell, or stay in the pack... which carries its own dangers. After playing a fair amount online lately and in a five-hour session the other night with a bunch of college buddies in the same room, I still feel like success and failure is determined by maybe 75% skill and course knowledge, and 25% luck. One of my close friends thinks it's all luck, but over a large sample size (like those five hours) patterns clearly emerge.

fanatic · Post by **fanatic** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:24 pm

Thanks for the impressions guys...I'm going to pick this one up after work tonight.

I'll add everyone and post my friend code later on (I've never taken the Wii online - so should be fun).

Was about to pick up Boom Blox - but going for this instead. Mistake?