FIFA 08 Demo Impressions

[Zeppo]

The 360/PS3 uses the new engine which is piss poor. We are playing two different games.

I'm not a huge fan of FIFA by any stretch, but calling the current-gen version 'piss poor' based on this demo is very far off the mark.

[JRod]

The 360/PS3 uses the new engine which is piss poor. We are playing two different games.

I'm not a huge fan of FIFA by any stretch, but calling the current-gen version 'piss poor' based on this demo is very far off the mark.

Have you played it? And what are we comparing it to? If we are comparing it to soccer then I stand by it. So you can kick, pass and run with the ball. I guess that's a good game then.

I would say it's not better than PES 360. And that games was bad as well. FIFA 07 XB was a much more fluid game. It didn't have the level of physics but what FIFA 08 has gained its lost in control. Then you add the stupid AI on top of it. Both sides just play stupid football. The CPU will make more adventurous passes. But here's the problem. Most interceptions are a result or the defender jumping the pass while the offensive player stands there. The AI doesn't really play the ball but plays a location on the field.

This isn't just the CPU but my own team. I still say that FIFA 07 was the best fifa to date. It was easy and had some issues, yet it was playable and a good variety of goals and was very fluid. It was still too much of finder the exploits instead of playing soccer but it was a good solid game.

The final game isn't going to change much from the demo. We would like it to but it's not. This is just an average game passed off with all the licenses. Why I call it piss-poor is because the game gets in the way of the football. Stupid things the AI does, and the way FIFA handles itself is way the game is piss-poor. Then you add on how long they've been doing this and I think FIFA should be further along than this.

[Jared]

Well, I wouldn't say that PES 360 wad bad. As for FIFA 08, I wouldn't say the controls are bad...they are sluggish.

And as for "stupid football", can you clarify that? I've seen some excellent passes by the computer...surprisingly excellent. True, they rarely go aerial except on crosses, and that is a problem. But I've seen some really nice through balls and smart buildup from the computer.

I agree with all of the points in your first point (except possibly positioning). But I don't think it's piss poor.

[Blublub]

Okay, maybe my "pathetic" was a bit harsh, but after one 360 demo match I still have zero interest in ever playing another. I saw nothing that indicated to me that this was better in any significant way than '07 on the 360. I blew $60 on that, played one match and never wanted to see the thing again.

I just love that as soon as the game fires up you're faced with that same idiotic Ronaldinho one-on-one thing that only serves to show how #$%^& up the whole physics engine is still after all these years. In the match, say what you will about guys making runs and the like, but the fundamental FIFA gameplay is the same as it was in 1999 - do one of two things to score, funnel it down the middle and take your striker on a run or pump it outside and cross until the scripting kicks in.

And the graphics. Don't get me started. If I hear one more person say "well of course FIFA has better presentation than PES..." After all these years they still can't put proper fonts on the kits. The ball is still up to guys' knees (although it does seem to be a little better this year). The plastic men are anything but next-gen in replays - I just about hurled after a goal cut-scene where the Red Bull guys looked like something out of a fantasy RPG.

I played Barca against New York. The Red Bulls dominated the attack the whole time, the one exception being a trademarked FIFA run from midfield with Henry in which he shoots straight at the keeper but ends up putting it wide because, best I can tell, the AI decides it should be that way. Once again this indicates to me that FIFA will still play the same way be it Barca-Inter or Barca-some second-division Swedish side.

Maybe the PC version is better, and that would be great. I know I did enjoy last year's PSP version, but that was obviously a different engine from the next-gens.

[ScoopBrady]

But surely you can't judge the games complete AI based upon playing a demo of it on the difficulty designed for people that just realized they had opposable thumbs, right?

Look at how much better the AI is in NHL in the full version on All Star. Hell, even without bumping it up to All Star.

[RobVarak]

I only put in about an hour, which wasn't really long enough for me to get sufficiently comfortable to draw final conclusions. My initial impression is that the controls are a bit sluggish, but it warrants another hour of play...more than most previous iterations.

What's with the odd characterization of the players? They look like some sort of anime freaks.

[Zeppo]

Have you played it? And what are we comparing it to?

Of course I've played it. And I wasn't comparing it to anything. You called it 'piss poor' and I don't think that is a fair judgment. If you are saying last year's WE is a bad game, then I all I can say is that you have much higher standards than what I would consider reasonable. I happen to think that despite plenty of flaws and problems, last year's WE is a very good game.

I don't think I've seen too many examples of what you called 'stupid AI' in the handful of halves I've played in the demo. The CPU seems to be able to knock the ball about pretty effectively, and create chances in my end both down the wing and with combinations on top of the box. They aren't easy for me to break down in their end, either. As to receiving passes, I have no problem hitting the turbo button and the L-stick to make my receiver move towards the ball, much in the same way i do that in WE. I find the ball physics to be better than any FIFA I can remember, and better than the last year's demo. I don't see a lot of clipping between ball and player, and player to player interaction seems to be much better than I remember from the last FIFA I bought (some years ago) and also better than last year's demo. A lot of the pet peeves I've had with FIFA over the years, things that never seemed to go away, no longer appear to be there in this demo, and that means to me that they've made progress.

You say, 'Stupid things the AI does, and the way FIFA handles itself is way the game is piss-poor. Then you add on how long they've been doing this and I think FIFA should be further along than this.' I don't know what 'stupid things the AI does' you are referring to, because you don't give any specifics, and you may think FIFA 'should be further along than this,' but where I come from, that doesn't easily equate to 'piss poor.'

Look, I don't think this demo indicates FIFA is really that close to WE in terms of the nuts and bolts gameplay, but it's a far cry from being 'piss poor.' But apparently, your opinion is that WE is also a bad game, so I guess we just see things differently.

[dbdynsty25]

If you are saying last year's WE is a bad game, then I all I can say is that you have much higher standards than what I would consider reasonable.

Uhhhhhhh....you haven't figured that one out yet? HOLY SH*T.

[Jimmydeicide]

Jrod , Fifa actally does the passing pretty good your supposed to come to the pass as the receiver its like real Soccer , try moving your player to the ball if you have a defender close by.

[JRod]

Jrod , Fifa actally does the passing pretty good your supposed to come to the pass as the receiver its like real Soccer , try moving your player to the ball if you have a defender close by.

That's fine but there's a delay in the controls that if you don't force your player to come forward they won't. And even if you do come forward the defense still gets to the ball first.

[Rodster]

If everything became automatic then we'd be hearing more b*tching about the game being even more scripted. So i'm cool with FIFA 08 this year. I've come to the realization that both EA and Konami interpret Football in different ways.

And as someone else may have mentioned we need to judge this years FIFA with those in the past. So far for me FIFA 08 on the 360 is a very nice game. I'll still pick the PC version and compare those two to each other.

Then i'll pickup Konami's football game next year.

[seanmac31]

I have a strong suspicion that those people who are finding the player control to be sluggish are playing with the tele camera. If you switch over to one of the dynamic cameras, you'll find that the player movement is more responsive and fluid than any soccer game to have graced a console. They move a hell of a lot better than WE 360, I can say that much.

The combination of switching cameras and getting comfortable with the controls really opened up the game for me last night, and made me convinced that EA is on to something special here, much as they were with NHL 08. Far from taking steps to get to WE's level, I really don't see any area where this game doesn't blow WE out of the water. (Disclaimer- I haven't played any PC versions, so I'm going by WE 9 and WE 360 as the primary examples.) The player control is much better. The animations are better. The ball physics are better. The shooting is far better than the 360 version of WE. You get a better sense of the skill sets and body sizes of the players simply by looking at them on the screen. When you take a skilled player and try to beat a defender with a combination of skill moves and shifting speeds, it looks and feels as revolutionary as it felt last year when you set up and beat a goalie with the shot stick in NHL 07. It's not just that the game is impressive graphically, but that the graphics lend themselves directly to the quality of play.

Again, I can't stress how important it is to play from a proper camera angle. I was struggling at first to score or to maintain a significant possession advantage with Barca against the Red Bulls or America, but that changed almost immediately as soon as I made the switch.

[Naples39]

I have a strong suspicion that those people who are finding the player control to be sluggish are playing with the tele camera. If you switch over to one of the dynamic cameras, you'll find that the player movement is more responsive and fluid than any soccer game to have graced a console. They move a hell of a lot better than WE 360, I can say that much.

The combination of switching cameras and getting comfortable with the controls really opened up the game for me last night, and made me convinced that EA is on to something special here, much as they were with NHL 08. Far from taking steps to get to WE's level, I really don't see any area where this game doesn't blow WE out of the water. (Disclaimer- I haven't played any PC versions, so I'm going by WE 9 and WE 360 as the primary examples.) The player control is much better. The animations are better. The ball physics are better. The shooting is far better than the 360 version of WE. You get a better sense of the skill sets and body sizes of the players simply by looking at them on the screen. When you take a skilled player and try to beat a defender with a combination of skill moves and shifting speeds, it looks and feels as revolutionary as it felt last year when you set up and beat a goalie with the shot stick in NHL 07. It's not just that the game is impressive graphically, but that the graphics lend themselves directly to the quality of play.

Again, I can't stress how important it is to play from a proper camera angle. I was struggling at first to score or to maintain a significant possession advantage with Barca against the Red Bulls or America, but that changed almost immediately as soon as I made the switch.

I'm usually pretty forgiving when it comes to 'game-killer' flaws, but being forced to play from specific camera angles or else the player control isn't right, well that for me would be a game-killer. I despise those dynamic cams, and it was already bad enough that the Tele cam in FIFA doesn't show enough horizontal view like the wide camera does in WE.

[Jared]

I just played using some of the dynamic and other cameras, and it seems to have the same sluggishness as in other views. I could be wrong, but I'm not seeing the difference.

And as I keep playing, the lack of spurtability is a really big difference. It seems like everyone's got heavy momentum and it's really difficult to run and then cut without having a step or two of deceleration animation. It feels like it's really difficult to, when out on the wing, use change of pace to get open. The lack of dribbling confrontations (due to the lack of dramatic acceleration) takes some fun and realism out of the game.

As as for the shooting...I don't think it's better than in WE. The ball moves a lot, but it seems like the ball bends away from goal naturally much more than towards goal (is there some way to control spin on shots?). And I've seen the CPU miss more sitters than it should. I like the randomness in shots, but it seems like it can be too random at times (especially with sitters or when excellent players take shots).

[10spro]

I did not enjoy playing the demo, for the many reasons some of you have mentioned mainly the CPU's AI is still dumb. After years of supporting Fifa, this will be the time to catch up more with WE.

[Leebo33]

edit:

I had a lot of fun playing the demo. I'm thinking of buying extra copies of the retail version to give to all my friends.

[Jimmydeicide]

I tried playing the game at 720 as my screen was off centre at 1080p and it seemed smoother to me , not as much delay or sluggishness and enjoyed it a little more, still not sure about the heading game tho. Feels better than 07 to me but thats not hard, thought 07 was hideous.

[Macca00]

After playing the demo for a while now I gotta say I’m even more excited about FIFA 08 (which, I guess, is fortunate since I’ve already paid for my copy! lol) but I still think it’s behind last year’s Winning Eleven in a few key areas.

Me likey;

- Players are more responsive than FIFA 07 and UEFA Champions League 06/07
- Skill stick/moves – I really like that there are a ton of different moves (step over, elastico, 360 spins, sidesteps, flick-ups, hell you can even do that Blanco trick when he jumps up with the ball in his feet).
- The slide ‘tackle’ is now an actual slide rather than a pre-canned animation that always interacts with another player, so you can use it to block off passes and time slide tackles like you would in real-life
- Love the pitch textures
- Love the Alianz stadium announcer
- Better AI with regards to player movement on both sides of the ball compared to UEFA Champions League

Me no likey;

- Ball physics are still floaty, especially when it comes to crosses – they move so slowly and just hang in the air (while the AI goalie just stands and watches most of the time) and headers still don’t have good pace on them
- Controls still need work when it comes to responsiveness and the game needs a ‘super-cancel’ so you can adjust the automatic runs of players
- Free kicks are still ass compared to Winning Eleven (though I like the fact that the CPU seems to score more frequently on them) – you have more control and way more options for set plays in Winning Eleven.
- The ‘holding down a pass button to control the strength of a through pass’ is nice but it doesn’t work for a quick one touch through or when you turn a defender and want to make a quick pass because you have to HOLD down the button for an extra second – by which time the defender who’s been hounding you can take the ball of you.
- Player models are just wrong  Viera looks like Heskey as he’s way too buff, Rooney stands too tall and doesn’t have the hunch he does in real life, Tevez is too tall (look in real life, he’s f***in midget), Scholes is also too tall and his hair too light – he looks like Alan Smith and that’s not just me; my sister was over this weekend and actually made the Smith comment before I did. Crespo looks like Adriano (even his skin is too dark). Even in the shitty resolution current-gen Winning Eleven games (like J-League Championship that I’ve been playing) you can identify players much better.
- In cut-scenes the proportions and heights are off – at the end of a half Vidic and Neville were walking side by side and looked the same height – Neville is 5”9 and Vidic is over six feet and their builds are definitely different in real life.
- AI passing is good but they don’t mix up the long ball (which they did do in UEFA Champions League) and I’m amazed at the brilliant passing and ball movement of the New York Red Bull – they should be playing in La Liga not the MLS….

Despite my bitching I’m still excited about FIFA 08; particularly with the manager mode, be a pro mode and online.

[wco81]

Does WE/PES actually attempt to model real stars?

Since they don't have the licenses?

Also is there anything like a players association which goes across all the leagues and countries?

Maybe they need a license to try to model the likeness.

[Jared]

Does WE/PES actually attempt to model real stars?

Since they don't have the licenses?

Also is there anything like a players association which goes across all the leagues and countries?

Maybe they need a license to try to model the likeness.

WE does model real stars....most of the big stars in the WE series look very much like their real life counterparts. Also, looking at screenshots for the upcoming PES game, they've done an excellent job with famous player faces.

As for licenses, they have the FIFPro license, which is the worldwide player's association. It basically covers any player that either plays in (or is from) any of the FIFPro member nations. There are currently 42 members of FIFPro, including the US, Mexico, most of S. America and Europe, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and a few African nations. The FIFPro license is why lots of the players for the unlicensed teams are real players. However, notice that some teams like Costa Rica are made primarily/strictly of fake players...this is because Costa Rica isn't a member of FIFPro. (Also, some national FAs don't seem to allow usage of real players for depiction as part of the national team, even though they have the rights for them using a FIFPro license. Hence why you can have a McBride playing for Fulham/West London White, but Marcroad playing for the USA.)

Then there are the team/league licenses (like the Serie A, La Liga, Ligue One, and various national teams). I believe that if you have a team license, you also have the rights to depict player likenesses for anyone on that team as well.

[pk500]

Extensive FIFA 08 FAQ here:

http://www.fifasoccerblog.com/

Take care,
PK

[Naples39]

I'm trying really hard to like this giving that PES in NA has been delayed until next spring (shameful konami), but there are some things that are really holding me back.

Aside from the floaty/sluggish control of players, which still persists and is undoubtedly something that's not going away, I just can't create any offense. I just played 4 halfs, and aside from one half where I had two shots saved, there was not a single other shot on target in all the games for either me or the CPU. Obviously the CPU offense gets better when you up the difficulty, but the passes are so weak and it's so easy to dispossess someone that my games are just an endless string of turnovers on both sides of the ball.

How do you shield the ball? Forget beating people on the dribbling, I just want to be able to hold the ball before laying it off.

How do you send players on runs? I'm tired of getting the ball out to the wing and literally having no options whatsoever other booting it back to defenders.

[Macca00]

I'm trying really hard to like this giving that PES in NA has been delayed until next spring (shameful konami), but there are some things that are really holding me back.

Aside from the floaty/sluggish control of players, which still persists and is undoubtedly something that's not going away, I just can't create any offense. I just played 4 halfs, and aside from one half where I had two shots saved, there was not a single other shot on target in all the games for either me or the CPU. Obviously the CPU offense gets better when you up the difficulty, but the passes are so weak and it's so easy to dispossess someone that my games are just an endless string of turnovers on both sides of the ball.

How do you shield the ball? Forget beating people on the dribbling, I just want to be able to hold the ball before laying it off.

How do you send players on runs? I'm tired of getting the ball out to the wing and literally having no options whatsoever other booting it back to
defenders.

Naples,

U can hold down the pass button to make the passes go faster and using the Winning Eleven ('New Analog Alternate' or something like that) control scheme you hit the Left Trigger to send a teammate on a run.

[Naples39]

I have been using the "New" controls, where I think the left trigger is close dribble mode. I'll try the "New Alternate", or whatever they call it.

As someone has mentioned before, the problem with power up passing is that you don't always have time to power up, whereas in PES the AI puts appropriate power automatically provided you have momentum and can step into a pass. Now I know someone will say you can do manual pass mode, but then every little pass becomes an adventure.

I think PES really has FIFA beat in this respect, because in PES you can have your cake and eat it too--ie manual passing on the right stick and a strong AI-assisted passing mode with the normal buttons, all at the same time.

[RobVarak]

Alright, I've given this game a hell of a fair run now. Still sucks. (That's with a nod and a wink to the NHL 08 thread )

Seriously, there are parts of a fun game here, but the controls are just not acceptable to me. I really wanted to be sure that I un-learned some of my WE biases before judging this game, and I feel like I've given it a hell of a lot of time to do so. I got used to some of the quirky things, but there remains a sense of lack of response in the controls that I've grown tired of trying to overcome.

Last years WE had some flaws, and with the steady improvement of FIFA I really wanted this to be the year that I feel FIFA is as good as or better than Konami's offering. Unless they take a step back from last year's WE, I don't think this is likely to be the case for me.