Madden 08 Hands On

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 1:56 pm

Football games are my weakness so I'm definitely getting all 3. I won't even try to kid myself that I won't.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:12 pm

GTHobbes wrote:Dan, I'm glad to hear you will give APF a chance this year, since you were as hard core Madden as they came around here for a long while. I'll be really tempted to pick up Madden this year as well, now that they finally listened to our complaints from the last 3-5 years and gotten around to adding gang tackling, removing Mario Running and cutting down on the Suction Blocking. If Madden's like NCAA and only has one camera angle, though, then I think I'm still going to have to pass unfortunately. Like anybody, all I want is a couple of great football games. One in baseball is keeping me more than happy.

Well I don't really feel I was hard core Madden. I always bought both games, but whatever you perceive is fine, I won't deny I prefered madden a little bit more for reasons not worth going into.

I see no reason not to give 2K a shot. I am puzzeled at some of the decessions but there is still going to be a solid game there. The biggest drawback for me in local multiplayer leagues. But we can work around it if you can create multiple teams and play them in exhibition.

I'm pretty sure Madden will only have one camera angle.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:12 pm

The thing about gang tackling as it's implemented on the PS3 version is that you get Tecmo Bowl action often with big backs trucking or always falling forward for 5 yards until a second defender comes in and has to help bring the runner down.

So you get big play syndrome and a lot of BS 5-10 yard gains.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:16 pm

JRod wrote:Gang tackling - Has anyone seen a movie where there's a tackled or more than 2. The fact is there are only two man tackles in this game. It's better than nothing but I don't think it changes the gameplay all the much. These seems to be just an eye-candy feature.

I don't understand that logic. Didn't the OS Impression thread say he only saw 2 man tackles in APF. did 2K5 have more then 2 man tackles? If not then ins't gang tackling on par with the competition?

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:30 pm

Madden will be a purchase. I won't even kid myself there. It always holds its value pretty long, so I can give it a try and if I don't like it, sell it for about the price of a couple rentals. I enjoyed the PC version last year, and if the 360 version doesn't have anything like the fatigue bug, I'll probably be happy.

NCAA is on the fence. I buy this game every year and never wind up playing it as much as I think I will because I'm more of an NFL guy. I won't be able to play my 360 until August anyway, so I'll have time to think it over after it comes out.

APF 2k8 is definitely on the wait and see. I don't doubt the gameplay will be good. But no matter how good it is, playing exhibition games over and over again will get old. I don't like that, after the all-star players, you're going to get three types of generic players at each position. Talk about a game not being worth $60.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:43 pm

Danimal wrote:
JRod wrote:Gang tackling - Has anyone seen a movie where there's a tackled or more than 2. The fact is there are only two man tackles in this game. It's better than nothing but I don't think it changes the gameplay all the much. These seems to be just an eye-candy feature.
I don't understand that logic. Didn't the OS Impression thread say he only saw 2 man tackles in APF. did 2K5 have more then 2 man tackles? If not then ins't gang tackling on par with the competition?

When the producer blog claims there's a 4-man tackle, they damn well better be a 4 man tackle in the game.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 2:44 pm

Madden and NCAA are automatic for Me. I know I like to slam EA with one breath and then am the first in line for both of these games. Its just the way its is...NFL crazy or just plain crazy....

I really did very much enjoy both of EAs offerings last year.

As for 2k Im not so interested in forking over $59 from what Ive heard. I will wait and see what y'all have to say before I even consider it.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:21 pm

JRod wrote:
Danimal wrote:
JRod wrote:Gang tackling - Has anyone seen a movie where there's a tackled or more than 2. The fact is there are only two man tackles in this game. It's better than nothing but I don't think it changes the gameplay all the much. These seems to be just an eye-candy feature.
I don't understand that logic. Didn't the OS Impression thread say he only saw 2 man tackles in APF. did 2K5 have more then 2 man tackles? If not then ins't gang tackling on par with the competition?
When the producer blog claims there's a 4-man tackle, they damn well better be a 4 man tackle in the game.

Ok fair point but you didn't answer the question. Is 2 man tackles only eye candy in APF if that is all they have?

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 3:50 pm

JRod wrote:
Danimal wrote:
JRod wrote:Gang tackling - Has anyone seen a movie where there's a tackled or more than 2. The fact is there are only two man tackles in this game. It's better than nothing but I don't think it changes the gameplay all the much. These seems to be just an eye-candy feature.
I don't understand that logic. Didn't the OS Impression thread say he only saw 2 man tackles in APF. did 2K5 have more then 2 man tackles? If not then ins't gang tackling on par with the competition?
When the producer blog claims there's a 4-man tackle, they damn well better be a 4 man tackle in the game.

Are you talking about Madden JRod? If so the movie that spooky157 posted on the first page of this thread shows a 4-man gang tackle. Here's the link again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V5Cc2UfGYQ

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:03 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:
JRod wrote:
Danimal wrote: I don't understand that logic. Didn't the OS Impression thread say he only saw 2 man tackles in APF. did 2K5 have more then 2 man tackles? If not then ins't gang tackling on par with the competition?
When the producer blog claims there's a 4-man tackle, they damn well better be a 4 man tackle in the game.
Are you talking about Madden JRod? If so the movie that spooky157 posted on the first page of this thread shows a 4-man gang tackle. Here's the link again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V5Cc2UfGYQ

I don't see a 4-man gang tackle. What minute is it on?

I see a two man tackle where the first guy falls of the tackle and the forth guy shoulder bumps the tackle but runs away?

Danimal
Is APF claiming to have gang tackling? I don't think this is their main selling point this year. There were gang tackles in the old gen engine that were a bit more than fluff.

Here's what I mean by eye-candy. Is it just a fancy animation or an enhancement to gameplay. I would love to see where a big back has a CB on him to slow him down enough to a LB can help out.

The problem with EA's approach is that they are adding gang tackling animations to instances where I player is pretty much stopped for gaining any more yardage. It would be nice to see players holding onto ankles, shoulders, or legs. In this case the player isn't already tackled waiting for another animation to put him completely down. In this instance, the offense player can get away and a "gang tackle" is a gameplay mechanic.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:09 pm

JRod wrote:I don't see a 4-man gang tackle. What minute is it on?

I see a two man tackle where the first guy falls of the tackle and the forth guy shoulder bumps the tackle but runs away?

Wait a minute, are you saying that you want to see someone tackled by 4 guys at the same time? Can you show a video of real football with 4 guys making a tackle at the same time. There's 4 guys in the video who have an impact on the tackle. To me that's a 4-man gang tackle. Is it even physically possible for 4 men to get a hold of one guy and tackle him? That would have to be one fat ass guy.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:23 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:
JRod wrote:I don't see a 4-man gang tackle. What minute is it on?

I see a two man tackle where the first guy falls of the tackle and the forth guy shoulder bumps the tackle but runs away?
Wait a minute, are you saying that you want to see someone tackled by 4 guys at the same time? Can you show a video of real football with 4 guys making a tackle at the same time. There's 4 guys in the video who have an impact on the tackle. To me that's a 4-man gang tackle. Is it even physically possible for 4 men to get a hold of one guy and tackle him? That would have to be one fat ass guy.

There were 3 guys that had an impact in that video. The 4th guy wasn't doing much. However when I say gang tackles here's what I envision.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:26 pm

JRod wrote:I don't see a 4-man gang tackle. What minute is it on?

I see a two man tackle where the first guy falls of the tackle and the forth guy shoulder bumps the tackle but runs away?

I see a 3 man tackle in there but not a 4. If you specifically asking to see 3 or 4 men bringing down the ball carrier, ie all of them pulling on something I don't see that in any of the videos.

Danimal
Is APF claiming to have gang tackling? I don't think this is their main selling point this year. There were gang tackles in the old gen engine that were a bit more than fluff.

See now this is why Gt thinks I am pro Madden, debating this kind of topic

Where exactly is madden making this their main selling point. Their main point is improved game play. This certainly looks like part of that (I'll reserve final judgement until I play it) with WR catches and other things they haven't shown yet.

I still don't recall more then 2 man tackles in 2K5 ( I could be wrong which is why I asked) and since you haven't corrected me I will assume I am right. I think these tackles look good. How you can say one is fluff and the other isn't at this point without having played it?

The problem with EA's approach is that they are adding gang tackling animations to instances where I player is pretty much stopped for gaining any more yardage.

Not sure how you make that conclusion after watching that video. But hey its your opinion I won't argue it.

Waddupcouzin · Post by **Waddupcouzin** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:37 pm

Danimal wrote:
JRod wrote:I don't see a 4-man gang tackle. What minute is it on?

I see a two man tackle where the first guy falls of the tackle and the forth guy shoulder bumps the tackle but runs away?

I see a 3 man tackle in there but not a 4. If you specifically asking to see 3 or 4 men bringing down the ball carrier, ie all of them pulling on something I don't see that in any of the videos.

Danimal
Is APF claiming to have gang tackling? I don't think this is their main selling point this year. There were gang tackles in the old gen engine that were a bit more than fluff.
See now this is why Gt thinks I am pro Madden, debating this kind of topic

Where exactly is madden making this their main selling point. Their main point is improved game play. This certainly looks like part of that (I'll reserve final judgement until I play it) with WR catches and other things they haven't shown yet.

I still don't recall more then 2 man tackles in 2K5 ( I could be wrong which is why I asked) and since you haven't corrected me I will assume I am right. I think these tackles look good. How you can say one is fluff and the other isn't at this point without having played it?

The problem with EA's approach is that they are adding gang tackling animations to instances where I player is pretty much stopped for gaining any more yardage.
Not sure how you make that conclusion after watching that video. But hey its your opinion I won't argue it.

Once again, we all are debating a feature that was on current gen (gang-tackling) that has taken E to the A, 3 years! to do for Next Gen!

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:58 pm

Waddupcouzin wrote:Once again, we all are debating a feature that was on current gen (gang-tackling) that has taken E to the A, 3 years! to do for Next Gen!

Is there a point to that statement?

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:07 pm

Danimal wrote:
Waddupcouzin wrote:Once again, we all are debating a feature that was on current gen (gang-tackling) that has taken E to the A, 3 years! to do for Next Gen!
Is there a point to that statement?

Yeah, last time I checked, 2k5 had a franchise mode, and it was also more infinitely screwed up than the one in 2k4. I remember reading all the explanations for fixing it: "If you take control of all the teams and turn off all the preseason options and boil your disc in a pot of Folger's Crystals on the first new moon, the Ravens won't cut Terrell Suggs for having migraines."

What amazes me is the "EA takes stuff out of their games" crowd are the ones clamoring the most for APF and its 4th and Inches level of gameplay options. Not that I am admonishing anyone for disliking Madden or liking 2k better. Play what you like. I just find the double-standard amusing.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:08 pm

Hands on preview
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/797/797066p1.html

GT i cut this quote out

"Aside from the requisite new camera angles and presentation elements"

Who knows maybe there is more then one camera angle.

Waddupcouzin · Post by **Waddupcouzin** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:09 pm

Danimal wrote:
Waddupcouzin wrote:Once again, we all are debating a feature that was on current gen (gang-tackling) that has taken E to the A, 3 years! to do for Next Gen!
Is there a point to that statement?

Yep...Whether it's 3 man or 4 man, it's taken them far too long to have more than 1 man!

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:12 pm

Brando70 wrote:
Danimal wrote:
Waddupcouzin wrote:Once again, we all are debating a feature that was on current gen (gang-tackling) that has taken E to the A, 3 years! to do for Next Gen!
Is there a point to that statement?
Yeah, last time I checked, 2k5 had a franchise mode, and it was also more infinitely screwed up than the one in 2k4. I remember reading all the explanations for fixing it: "If you take control of all the teams and turn off all the preseason options and boil your disc in a pot of Folger's Crystals on the first new moon, the Ravens won't cut Terrell Suggs for having migraines."

What amazes me is the "EA takes stuff out of their games" crowd are the ones clamoring the most for APF and its 4th and Inches level of gameplay options. Not that I am admonishing anyone for disliking Madden or liking 2k better. Play what you like. I just find the double-standard amusing.

For the record, I could care less about gang-tackling. Just give me a game that plays well and I don't care how many players need to tackle a player. And franchise modes, I don't care, all I play are season modes. Never have done more than 1 year in the last 2 maddens and ncaa's. All that Franchise fluff is just bs to me since all I care about is how the game plays on the field.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:19 pm

Waddupcouzin wrote:
Danimal wrote:
Waddupcouzin wrote:Once again, we all are debating a feature that was on current gen (gang-tackling) that has taken E to the A, 3 years! to do for Next Gen!
Is there a point to that statement?
Yep...Whether it's 3 man or 4 man, it's taken them far too long to have more than 1 man!

So you're point is that because they have taken too long to implement it EA still sucks? If this game comes out and plays a really good game of football we can conclude by your stellar contribution to this topic that it will still be a no buy for you because it took EA too long to get the game good.

I bet it is Ok that 2K took all of those things out of APF though. Well because it's obviously EA's fault for them stealing the license right?

See 34 this is exactly the kind of guy I was talking about earlier.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:21 pm

Brando70 wrote:
Danimal wrote:
Waddupcouzin wrote:Once again, we all are debating a feature that was on current gen (gang-tackling) that has taken E to the A, 3 years! to do for Next Gen!
Is there a point to that statement?
Yeah, last time I checked, 2k5 had a franchise mode, and it was also more infinitely screwed up than the one in 2k4. I remember reading all the explanations for fixing it: "If you take control of all the teams and turn off all the preseason options and boil your disc in a pot of Folger's Crystals on the first new moon, the Ravens won't cut Terrell Suggs for having migraines."

What amazes me is the "EA takes stuff out of their games" crowd are the ones clamoring the most for APF and its 4th and Inches level of gameplay options. Not that I am admonishing anyone for disliking Madden or liking 2k better. Play what you like. I just find the double-standard amusing.

I've said for the longest time 2k Sports' titles are unfinished messes.

Here's why I think APF should get a pass this year. It's the first on a next gen system. Madden 06 for the 360 was a bad game but it was given a pass for not having some features but not for gameplay.

Pro Evolution was given a pass as well as FIFA for the 360.

But if this is the only football game we are going to see until 2009 then APF better be pretty damn good. There's no sense in having a game that's incomplete and waiting for two years for them to fix it.

Most games get the first release pass. Madden doesn't get it anymore because they have three years to work on next gen madden. APF might have been in the works for two years but this is it first appearence. Let's see what they can do with it.

Waddupcouzin · Post by **Waddupcouzin** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:22 pm

Brando70 wrote:
Danimal wrote:
Waddupcouzin wrote:Once again, we all are debating a feature that was on current gen (gang-tackling) that has taken E to the A, 3 years! to do for Next Gen!
Is there a point to that statement?
Yeah, last time I checked, 2k5 had a franchise mode, and it was also more infinitely screwed up than the one in 2k4. I remember reading all the explanations for fixing it: "If you take control of all the teams and turn off all the preseason options and boil your disc in a pot of Folger's Crystals on the first new moon, the Ravens won't cut Terrell Suggs for having migraines."

What amazes me is the "EA takes stuff out of their games" crowd are the ones clamoring the most for APF and its 4th and Inches level of gameplay options. Not that I am admonishing anyone for disliking Madden or liking 2k better. Play what you like. I just find the double-standard amusing.

I am sure we can debate ad naseum about this, so I'll wrap my final thought on the fact that gamers have been left without another sim like football option for over two years now, so if you are the only "sim-game in town" you open yourself up to these criticisms. I am not going to applaud them for making a gameplay feature that's standard in current gen! By taking away features from the Next-Gen game, I was still paying $60 a game, now that they have added these features back I'm suppose to be excited???

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:25 pm

Waddupcouzin wrote:
Brando70 wrote:
Danimal wrote: Is there a point to that statement?
Yeah, last time I checked, 2k5 had a franchise mode, and it was also more infinitely screwed up than the one in 2k4. I remember reading all the explanations for fixing it: "If you take control of all the teams and turn off all the preseason options and boil your disc in a pot of Folger's Crystals on the first new moon, the Ravens won't cut Terrell Suggs for having migraines."

What amazes me is the "EA takes stuff out of their games" crowd are the ones clamoring the most for APF and its 4th and Inches level of gameplay options. Not that I am admonishing anyone for disliking Madden or liking 2k better. Play what you like. I just find the double-standard amusing.
I am sure we can debate ad naseum about this, so I'll wrap my final thought on the fact that gamers have been left without another sim like football option for over two years now, so if you are the only "sim-game in town" you open yourself up to these criticisms. I am not going to applaud them for making a gameplay feature that's standard in current gen! By taking away features from the Next-Gen game, I was still paying $60 a game, now that they have added these features back I'm suppose to be excited???

Goes back to what I was saying about NCAA. So in 2010, when they finally 'add' create a school in ncaa, I should get excited for this 'new' feature on the next-gen version?

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:31 pm

Waddupcouzin wrote:I am sure we can debate ad naseum about this, so I'll wrap my final thought

I really hope you're a man of your word. Then we can go back to talking about madden and not dealing with rhinoculous statements.

Waddupcouzin · Post by **Waddupcouzin** » Mon Jun 18, 2007 5:36 pm

Danimal wrote:
Waddupcouzin wrote:
Danimal wrote: Is there a point to that statement?
Yep...Whether it's 3 man or 4 man, it's taken them far too long to have more than 1 man!
So you're point is that because they have taken too long to implement it EA still sucks? If this game comes out and plays a really good game of football we can conclude by your stellar contribution to this topic that it will still be a no buy for you because it took EA too long to get the game good.

I bet it is Ok that 2K took all of those things out of APF though. Well because it's obviously EA's fault for them stealing the license right?

See 34 this is exactly the kind of guy I was talking about earlier.

I'm sorry did I say EA sucks, and now you're coming across very condescending. I've purchased the game the last two years (and years prior), so it's not like I am bashing a game that I know nothing about. If they implement gang-tackling this year, fine. When I read previews about them (EA) saying, "Hey we're concentrating on gameplay this year???" Yeah....you think??? You mean no more "Liquid A.I"...At least the dude from 2K Baseball (Name Escapes me) had the stones to say we're just going to concentrate on gameplay, no more bells and whistles.