Tiger Woods 2010

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:11 pm

It wouldn't be fun, but some of the impressions were indicating that their real-life swing mechanics are being reproduced accurately on screen.

On the one hand, you want realism/immersion from the motion controls but on the other hand, you don't want it to be too realistic because it wouldn't be fun to struggle badly when video games are partly about doing feats you can't do in real life.

So how well does the game balance these opposing objectives?

Leadfoot5 · Post by **Leadfoot5** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:16 pm

Danimal wrote: One thing is for sure i won't fall asleep playing this like I did 09 on the 360 because I am always standing up.

Well put!!

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:33 pm

wco81 wrote:It wouldn't be fun, but some of the impressions were indicating that their real-life swing mechanics are being reproduced accurately on screen.

I don't mean to be a hard ass on the game as impressions are near universally positive. It is a good game, with hands down the best motion controls to date, but in NO way are real-life swing mechanics being reproduced. There is no variation at all in swing path. As an example, take the remote/club half-way back, stop, and then move side to side. Nothing. My disappointment with the game I believe comes from having way too high of expectations for the 1:1 tracking and thinking my on screen character would follow my every movement of the club, not just how far I take it back.

It is impressive how the game tracks the speed of the swing and the angle of the clubface by twisting the remote. I will still be waiting for a game that can track every movement of the club though. Until that day, I still believe that the Mouse-Swing (which does track side to side variations in swing path) on the PC version is still the best, and most fun swing mechanic in a golf video game.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:38 pm

All they need is another WMP module stacked on top of the other one, operating on a perpendicular axis right? Give me a lightsaber game that uses 20 WMP's, stacked on top of one another and encased in a glowing tube. I'll pay for it if it's accurate enough!

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:42 pm

wco81 wrote:It wouldn't be fun, but some of the impressions were indicating that their real-life swing mechanics are being reproduced accurately on screen.

Well if you mean my comment then I wasn't clear it doesn't do a true representation of a golf swing. Truth be told I can you one hand barely move my arm and flick my wrist and hit it about 200.

What I said it that when I use it as if I am actually taking a golf swing my ball flight is similar. This has more to do with my hands at the finish position which is how this game determines draws and fades.

But I could have a swing plane that would cut across the ball that in real life would result in a slice or worse and still roll my wrists and get a draw. So it is not a true representation.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:44 pm

btmmayor wrote:
wco81 wrote:It wouldn't be fun, but some of the impressions were indicating that their real-life swing mechanics are being reproduced accurately on screen.
I don't mean to be a hard ass on the game as impressions are near universally positive. It is a good game, with hands down the best motion controls to date, but in NO way are real-life swing mechanics being reproduced. There is no variation at all in swing path. As an example, take the remote/club half-way back, stop, and then move side to side. Nothing. My disappointment with the game I believe comes from having way too high of expectations for the 1:1 tracking and thinking my on screen character would follow my every movement of the club, not just how far I take it back.

It is impressive how the game tracks the speed of the swing and the angle of the clubface by twisting the remote. I will still be waiting for a game that can track every movement of the club though.

As I've said before, the game achieves what it strives for; it tracks your full backswing (including cocking your hands at the top of your backswing), follow-through, and club face at impact. No, it is not a 100% golf swing simulator, missing things such as swing path as you mentioned.

Personally, I have serious problems in real life opening my club face through impact. TW 10 captures this beautifully in the game, as my last 2 times firing up the game I was really battling not to have my ball fade because of my real life swing issues.

Now obviously playing TW10 my ball is going further and the fade/slice is far less dramatic than my real life issues, but this exactly what I hoped for on a video game. A transparent and predictable real life swing consequence, scaled to the game universe which allows you to shoot like pro but not hit straight down the middle every time either.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:51 pm

btmmayor wrote:
wco81 wrote:It wouldn't be fun, but some of the impressions were indicating that their real-life swing mechanics are being reproduced accurately on screen.
I don't mean to be a hard ass on the game as impressions are near universally positive. It is a good game, with hands down the best motion controls to date, but in NO way are real-life swing mechanics being reproduced. There is no variation at all in swing path. As an example, take the remote/club half-way back, stop, and then move side to side. Nothing. My disappointment with the game I believe comes from having way too high of expectations for the 1:1 tracking and thinking my on screen character would follow my every movement of the club, not just how far I take it back.

It is impressive how the game tracks the speed of the swing and the angle of the clubface by twisting the remote. I will still be waiting for a game that can track every movement of the club though. Until that day, I still believe that the Mouse-Swing (which does track side to side variations in swing path) on the PC version is still the best, and most fun swing mechanic in a golf video game.

So...are you saying that if you wanted to swing the club like a baseball bat it should represent those movements?

I'm really not sure why you'd want anything but full 1:1 control over a golf swing. It IS a golf game after all. Why would you feel a need to pull the club back and then waggle or extend the club to the side? The 1:1 is all about being able to take full control of the amount/percentage of power as well as angle (with the club face) in 'real time'. That's it.

I'm not trying to be an ass but I'm just wondering what advantage it would give you by being able to move the club around in any way other than a golf swing?

Are you frustrated that you cannot swing your putter around other than back and fourth?

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:57 pm

His frustration comes from wanting it to be, and hoping it would be, a full golf simulator. If it simulated full range of club motion, you'd have the ability to completely duff a shot, shank it way off to the left for 10 feet, miss the ball entirely, etc. That would be incredibly realistic, but about 2% of the people would be able to play it. Probably the same guys who play in the PGA

I know why he'd want it that way; he's a good golfer. No way would I want that, though, as I want to be able to actually golf instead of cursing at the screen like a real course.

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:10 pm

Naples39 wrote: As I've said before, the game achieves what it strives for; it tracks your full backswing (including cocking your hands at the top of your backswing), follow-through, and club face at impact. No, it is not a 100% golf swing simulator, missing things such as swing path as you mentioned.

I agree that the game does a fantastic job for what it is and absolutely it has the best motion controls ever for a golf video game. I disagree that the "game achieves what it strives for"

Here is a bullet point direct from EA:

Wii MotionPlus Integration— Elevate your game with an enhanced, true-to-life golf swing that features precise draw-fade capabilities and authentic sports motion which mirrors your every move. The 1:1 motion with the Wii MotionPlus controls your in-game character to mimic your real life movements.

The game simply does not "mirror your every move". It tracks how far you swing back and the rotation of the remote. The above statement is a lie, plain and simple, and anyone going into the game expecting "1:1 motion that mimics your real life movement" will be in for a let down as I was. That EA marketing bull is exactly why I'm very disappointed in the game (outside of the years old, stale presentation and atmosphere).

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:16 pm

Spooky wrote: Are you frustrated that you cannot swing your putter around other than back and fourth?

Yes. Read the EA marketing bullet in my previous post and then tell me I'm being unrealistic in thinking that I should be able to. Would I want to swing the putter around just to do it.....no. Should I be able to based on EA's statement......yes. I miss many, many putts in real life because my swing path is not perfectly straight, not just because my clubface is not.

Again, please don't think I'm saying this game is horrible or that the motion controls suck. They don't. Its simply not what I was expecting, and thats my own fault for believing the marketing.

By the way, I suck at real life golf.

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:30 pm

BTW, The ability to swing inside-out or outside-in with any club (including the putter) is one of the reasons I still hold every golf video game and swing mechanic up against Mouse Swing on the PC versions.

That interface proves that you can mimic almost every motion of a golf club in a video game and still have it be fun and not frustrating by tailoring it to different levels of difficulty/sensitivity. So I don't want to hear about how if MotionPlus could do true 1:1 movement that it would be too frustrating or take the fun out of the video game. That is just making excuses for the Wii swing interface the way it is now.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:38 pm

Time to let it go. We get it.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:49 pm

I don't know how anyone could expect much more out of a $50 game at this point. I have this set on all the hardest settings and am finding it challenging, yet a lot of fun. I've sunk a couple eagles from way out now, yet also nearly pulling a Happy Gilmore tantrum on the green and in the traps at times. I love the way this game is balanced. It certainly is not a dead-on golf simulator, however it's the closest thing to actual golfing I have come across on either console or PC.

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:24 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Time to let it go. We get it.

Sorry for responding to other replies in the thread O' great one.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:59 pm

seems like I am the only one around here with only a 360

does anyone know when feature where you play along with a real life tournament will be working? that sounds pretty cool! kind of like what they were trying to do with NBA Live.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:01 pm

I don't think it's just an EA issue.

Nintendo advertised 1:1 and people may have different expectations of what that implies.

Does the Motion Plus let a game designer do 1:1 (and swing a putter like a baseball bat if you wanted?) or did EA decide it would only represent certain motions?

There's no value in a golf game swinging however you want to but if in a baseball game, you want to be waving the bat while waiting for the pitch like some major leaguers, that should be possible. If you want to uppercut a swing or tomahawk a high pitch, that should be possible as well.

Of course Sony and Microsoft also claimed 1:1 in their demos. If their technologies tracked body motion and body position relative to the sensor, would EA make Tiger Woods versions for those peripherals represent more aspects of the golf swing?

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:05 pm

Isn't what BTM is saying, is that the swing is on rails except for open/closed face at impact. Does the motion sensor pick up on in-out, or out-to-in swings? If that answer is no, then by 1:1 means that it will only measure vertical location in the swing not really lateral movements, if that makes sense.

Gangrel · Post by **Gangrel** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:09 pm

I have it for the 360. First round at Sawgrass in my career, and I'm 11 over. Mostly because I can't hit the ball far enough, not from poor accuracy.

There were times i didn't push straight up on my swing, but I didn't notice much deviation in ball flight. Maybe as I hit longer I will, but that's a bit of a let down.

Putting is super fun though, even with 4 putting one hole.

I hope it stays fun, but I have a feeling once my guy is maxed out, it will turn into a game of "hit it exactly where i'm aiming".... but we'll see.

Oh, and to answer my earlier question, the tutorials in the game claim that the lie affects the shot..... so the reviewer who said it didn't might be wrong....

btmmayor · Post by **btmmayor** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:53 pm

JRod wrote:Isn't what BTM is saying, is that the swing is on rails except for open/closed face at impact. Does the motion sensor pick up on in-out, or out-to-in swings? If that answer is no, then by 1:1 means that it will only measure vertical location in the swing not really lateral movements, if that makes sense.

The answer is no. On rails is a great way to describe it.

Gangrel wrote:There were times i didn't push straight up on my swing, but I didn't notice much deviation in ball flight. Maybe as I hit longer I will, but that's a bit of a let down.

Were you on the highest difficulty level? 08 was the last 360 version that I put serious time into and that seemed to have a pretty decent range using the sticks.

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:05 pm

JackB1 wrote:seems like I am the only one around here with only a 360

does anyone know when feature where you play along with a real life tournament will be working? that sounds pretty cool! kind of like what they were trying to do with NBA Live.

This weekend at the St. Jude Classic. The course will be a custom course compiled from various other golf holes on existing courses that most closely resemble TPC Southwind....

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:11 pm

btmmayor wrote:
JRod wrote:Isn't what BTM is saying, is that the swing is on rails except for open/closed face at impact. Does the motion sensor pick up on in-out, or out-to-in swings? If that answer is no, then by 1:1 means that it will only measure vertical location in the swing not really lateral movements, if that makes sense.
The answer is no. On rails is a great way to describe it.

Gangrel wrote:There were times i didn't push straight up on my swing, but I didn't notice much deviation in ball flight. Maybe as I hit longer I will, but that's a bit of a let down.
Were you on the highest difficulty level? 08 was the last 360 version that I put serious time into and that seemed to have a pretty decent range using the sticks.

I get what Terry is saying that it shouldn't be like real golf. But I thought there would be more than just club angle and power. It doesn't have to be like real golf but Tour mode could take into account in/out tendencies like the 360. That would make club position, power and swing all factors. I don't think that makes it impossible for casual players at all.

I certainly thought that would be the three factors sadly it just seems that all it does is calculate power and club head angle.

Gangrel · Post by **Gangrel** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:04 pm

btmmayor wrote:
Gangrel wrote:There were times i didn't push straight up on my swing, but I didn't notice much deviation in ball flight. Maybe as I hit longer I will, but that's a bit of a let down.
Were you on the highest difficulty level? 08 was the last 360 version that I put serious time into and that seemed to have a pretty decent range using the sticks.

Yes, I'm on the highest level. Played the second round, and died on the greens as the pins are in much harder spots.

I still find the ball goes too "straight"...... but again, maybe once i get to hit longer and need to shape shots more, it'll come.......

I just wish they had some harder system for the analog sticks.....

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:05 pm

Maybe they could have an expert mode or something like the manual mode in FIFA, where the swings are tracked in all dimensions.

DChaps · Post by **DChaps** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:20 pm

After seeing all the impressions about bland presentation, camera angles, lack of atmosphere, etc., I assume that the Wii version does not have the features shown in this video?

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=76905151875

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:22 pm

DChaps wrote:After seeing all the impressions about bland presentation, camera angles, lack of atmosphere, etc., I assume that the Wii version does not have the features shown in this video?

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=76905151875

The Wii version does have the real time weather. There is the option to turn on/off tournament atmosphere. I think the presentation is just fine. I usually skip through the cut scenes anyway so that I can get in as much actual golfing as possible.