NBA Playoffs, 2005

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:09 pm

I've got not truck with the man's skill's, it's the extra-curricular stuff with the flopping.

Hey, I know all teams do it. It is -unfortunately- a part of the game to extent. But after watching just one game of the Finals it already seems like Gibobili just takes it to another level. Hamilton gave him a slight push with a forearm last night and the guy recoiled like he'd been punched in the jaw. Later in the quarter when he got bumped the guy didn't just flop. He pushed himself clear into the air and back a couple of feet before hitting the floor. No way was the contact that bad. What stuns me is the effort he puts into looking like he's just been creamed and the fact that it evidently works so well with the officials that he can even get way with it at the other end of the loor when he absolutely runs down a larger player and doesn't get hit with a charge.

Again, I'm not not taking away from his skill. He was phenomenal last night and the Spurs earned the win. I've got no issue with how Duncan owned the offensive glass, how Bowen put Rip Hamilton in a straightjacket or how the paint became a no-fly zone for the Pistons with the number of times they got stuffed. But Ginobili -and the antics he'll perform to get a call- got under my skin in a big way.
---Todd

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 1:40 pm

Ginobli drew flagrant calls against Denver and Seattle. Maybe two against Seattle. Don't know about Phoenix. He was taking serious hits, no flops there. And before this year, he used to get in the lane against the Lakers in the playoffs but got no calls.

Teams are fouling him hard because they know he can finish against weak reaches and he does draw some ticky tack fouls.

The guy is able to change directions in mid-stride -- it's really surprising he hasn't had a serious knee injury. He just shreds defenses because he can go either way within one step..

In the Olympics, where they weren't fouling hard or playing physically, he was unstoppable. Now, NBA teams are seeing that it's very hard to prevent him from getting to the rim unless you pack the lane like Phoenix did in Game 5 of that series. In which case he shoots 3-pointers.

There's no question coaches like Nate McMillan are telling his big men to foul him hard rather than trying to block or change his shot. McMillan used to do that himself as a player when he tried to defend Marcioulonis.

anchester · Post by **anchester** » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:39 pm

ginoblili is very annoying....he is like vlade divac with the arms flailing on every position. And the worst part is that it works. Damn officials give him the calls. I would punish him for his flopping and give the benefit to the defense. Its like the boy who cries wolfe, you just don't believe him b/c he acts on every play

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:54 pm

I will admit I'm a bit suprise at how the Spurs are handling the Pistons so far...Game 3 is obviously critical but the Pistons are really looking bad right now and their vaunted defense doesn't seem to bother the Spurs at all.

For All the Ginobili haters

Tonight.

27 Points. 6 of 8 FG. 4 of 5 from beyond the arc. 7 assists.

For the Playoffs

22 PPG 52% FG 1.18 STL 5.9 REBS 4.2 ASTS

except for steals all improved over his regular season numbers...Yeah I'd take him on my team

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:31 am

Pistons are collapsing on penetration and they got hurt by the 3-point shooting.

Can't believe late in the third quarter, Brown was telling them he wanted 5 blue shirts in the lane if a Spur penetrated. They've been getting burned by those 3s.

Contrast that to what the Spurs did against the Suns. They were going to play Stoudemire and Nash one on one and stay at home against the spot-up shooters.

Looks like Prince and the Wallaces' long arms aren't bothering Ginobli any more so his greater quickness is going to be hard to contain, unless they trap him early and force him to give the ball up.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:39 am

Yawn....if I watch the last two games, I might as well be in a coma.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:39 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:Yawn....if I watch the last two games, I might as well be in a coma.

What was boring about game 2?

Maybe if you are a Piston fan.

Spurs are just wooping the Pistons, playing whatever style they need. It's not the Spurs fault(of course it is) that Detroit hasn't been able to put up a fight.

Anyways, if the Pistons don't get their act together it's gonna be over pretty soon. I don't think the series goes back to Texas.

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 8:47 am

BTW, all this Manu hating will be for nothing.

If the Spurs win, he's getting the MVP.

Damn, a latinamerican player winning a NBA Finals MVP...

Too bad my boy Arroyo isn't getting a ring.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:25 am

jlp - I won't speak for the rest, but I'm not taking away from Manu's abilities as a player. I just would respect his game a lot more if he at least added some Reggie Miller subtlety to the flopping. But whatever. You're right that this looks like it'll be over soon.

I've learned enough about the Pistons to know I should never count them out, but they just look like they're playing on an empty tank right now and the Spurs are flat out owning them. No way to deny that. They're playing great ball.
---Todd

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:57 am

Manu Ginobili is Argentinian for John Starks.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:44 am

It's boring because the Spurs are just wooping their ass up and down the court. At least when the Suns almost got swept...they had a chance to win all of the games (except game 3). You know...a competitive series. This, has not been competitive at all really.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:07 pm

I'm too lazy to go quote the post, but I remeber earlier in this thread how somebody was touting Tayshaun Prince as the second coming. He's been MIA this series.

The Pistons play tough basketball and are use to having their backs against the wall.... They always get into these kinds of series and face a moment where it looks like they are going down. In the last two seasons, they've answered the call every time. The problem is they haven't faced a squad who are actually capable of hamming them like these Spurs. Three games at home for the Pistons amd it's not inconceivable that the Pistons could take two out of the next three but their defense actually needs to have an answer for the Spurs Big Three. The need to go back and look at film and see what the Lakers did last season (Beat up and take a Parker out of the game really) since they were in a similar situation.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:25 pm

reeche wrote:I'm too lazy to go quote the post, but I remeber earlier in this thread how somebody was touting Tayshaun Prince as the second coming. He's been MIA this series.

Yeah that was kind of amusing...and all Amare did was go score 36 points a game against the real "best defensive team" in the NBA. Prince over Stoudamire is a laugher of epic proportions...in Amare's favor.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:31 pm

The series has been somewhat disappointing because the pistons aren't showing up. Before they started playing, the way the two teams matchedup looked like this would be a classic series, but the pistons look like they're not even trying. I had thought the pistons would win because manu and parker have a history of not showing up every game in the playoffs, but so far that's been reversed and the pistons guys are the ones not showing up.

I still wouldn't be surprised if this series is tied 2-2 later this week . You can't count the pistons out especially at home.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:17 pm

Prince's main contribution would have been to shut down Ginobli because he's been able to defend most perimeter players from Iverson to Kobe.

But Wade tore him up and looks like Ginobli isn't having too much difficulties shedding him.

Prince might have been able to back his defender down but the Pistons seem to be confused about which matchups they would want to exploit. Sometimes, Rasheed is going well, other times, Billups is giving Parker all he can handle. In one sequence, Prince was trying to post Ginobli, which isn't a bad idea. But Ben Wallace set up in the block and wouldn't leave so they passed the ball to him.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:23 pm

reeche wrote:I'm too lazy to go quote the post, but I remeber earlier in this thread how somebody was touting Tayshaun Prince as the second coming. He's been MIA this series.

I think that was last year when Prince did a good job on Kobe in the Finals. Knowing what we know now about that Lakers team last year, I still think it's too early in Prince's career to tout him as one of the best defenders in the nba. I don't think he's in the same category as Bowen.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:24 pm

It was this year Weaver...some dude said that he was better than Amare.

ubrakto · Post by **ubrakto** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:31 pm

Personally, I would never have put Prince in Amare's cailbur, but to be fair the Tayshaun Prince I've been seeing in this series (when he's not on the bench in foul trouble) is not the guy Pistons fans are used to seeing. Though that makes him no different from any of the other starting 5 at this point. He's always been a little streaky on offense, but the guy played very, very well throught the second half of the season (from mid-January on, really) and looked poised to emerge in these playoffs. He's had some good efforts in the playoffs too, but nothing like what I expected.

I'm really at a loss to explain this series. I mean I give all the credit in the world to the Spurs so far, but this is just not the same Pistons team right now. I don't know if it was the back-to-back series against the Pacers (who always play them hard) and Miami or what, but they're playing like they've got nothing left in the tank.

Anyway, if they go on to get trounced I'll be disappointed, but remain appreciative of what they've done. With three straight conference finals appearances, two Finals appearances and a championship, they're a long way from the perennial lottery team/first round road kill that they head been for about ten years. (Ugh. I'm already talking like it's over.)
---Todd

anchester · Post by **anchester** » Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:54 pm

there is no way the pistons can beat the spurs. The pistons strength is defense and they can't use any defense b/c ginobilli can just wildly drive to the basket, flail his arms and long hair, and they will call a foul.

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:47 am

anchester wrote:there is no way the pistons can beat the spurs. The pistons strength is defense and they can't use any defense b/c ginobilli can just wildly drive to the basket, flail his arms and long hair, and they will call a foul.

Boy, you won't stop beating this horse. I think the refs are also bailing him out on the three pointers he made in the last game also I suppose. Poor Pistons. If they even think look at Ginobilli cross-eyed now they are giving him foul calls right. Give me a break. I'm not even a Spurs fans, and until this post-season not even much of a Ginobilli fan either, but your detest of him is blinding you imo.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Jun 14, 2005 8:50 am

anchester wrote:there is no way the pistons can beat the spurs. The pistons strength is defense and they can't use any defense b/c ginobilli can just wildly drive to the basket, flail his arms and long hair, and they will call a foul.

So just how exactly does one flail their hair?

anchester · Post by **anchester** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:13 am

what a difference home cooking makes for the pistons....the refs make such a huge impact in the game. Detroit is allowed to play D at home. Ginobili was not getting the calls as he drove to the basket (but he did get a couple of bogus charges).

Ginobili would be the kind of guy who would not be good in streetball. He is very smart and knows how to work the refs. But a strong player could shut him down in streetball or if the refs decide not to call everything (like in tonights game).

reeche · Post by **reeche** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:20 am

anchester wrote:what a difference home cooking makes for the pistons....the refs make such a huge impact in the game. Detroit is allowed to play D at home. Ginobili was not getting the calls as he drove to the basket (but he did get a couple of bogus charges).

Ginobili would be the kind of guy who would not be good in streetball. He is very smart and knows how to work the refs. But a strong player could shut him down in streetball or if the refs decide not to call everything (like in tonights game).

Well at least your consistently biased I suppose.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 1:57 am

anchester wrote:Ginobili would be the kind of guy who would not be good in streetball. He is very smart and knows how to work the refs. But a strong player could shut him down in streetball or if the refs decide not to call everything (like in tonights game).

Yeah, flopping doesn't work on the playgrounds too much. But in a game that counts for something, I'd still take Ginobili over Rafer Alston or Sweet Pea Daniels or :insert local streetball legend's name here:

jLp vAkEr0 · Post by **jLp vAkEr0** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:24 am

anchester wrote:Ginobili would be the kind of guy who would not be good in streetball. He is very smart and knows how to work the refs. But a strong player could shut him down in streetball or if the refs decide not to call everything (like in tonights game).

Uh?

What does being stronger have to do with defending Manu or anyother player?

The guy can go by defenders, is a good finisher and can hit the jumper from all angles.

Sounds like I guy I would pick to play with me on ANY court.