Madden 11 Impressions

[Aristo]

I remember being told to shut up 6 years ago for always getting on Tiburon about Mario Running, suction blocking, 20 yard drop back quarterbacks, lousy presentation, terrible looking tackles (remember the shotgun blast in the back), etc. I used to annoy the same people back then. They'd say, it's just a videogame. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Now, when a lot more people are complaining AND not buying the game, they still respond the same way.

So for six years you've had the good sense to buy something else, but you still want to complain about it? Brilliant!

Should all of the guys posting about NHL 11 now take some time to bash 2K11's sales numbers and gameplay? Or should we just enjoy the game we like?

The problem you have is that you post over and over and over again in the Backbreaker thread, but because no one is really enjoying the game with you, you have to come to the Madden thread for some attention. Even if you could prove your point about Madden losing sales, your love of a game that hardly registers as a blip on the sports game market still makes you an irrelevant part of the demographic.

And this isn't the slam you think it is. All I really want is for NFL Head Coach to become as fun of a game as FBPro was. But my demographic can support a game either. So I take what I can get and enjoy it for what it is. For the last couple of years, that has meant playing Madden for a few weeks until NHL comes out. This year, it didn't even make it that long, but NCAA is taking up my time.

But you are not here to talk about Madden. You are hereto try an steer the discussion back to Backbreaker so you can find some more guys to play with. that's not even a bad plan. But your execution kind of sucks.

[Rodster]

I think for GT it's nothing more than wishing we had more choices to pick from and I get where he's coming from. I wish we had more choices and so does pretty much everyone else here. I wish I could play NFL Gameday 2011 and NFL 2K11 but the reality is, it's not going to happen. The NFL is happy with EA and EA is happy being an Exclusive partner to the NFL.

As has been stated Madden's number have been decent and Scoop made a valid point I totally forgot about AND that factors into the equation, Piracy !

You can play a hacked copy of Madden on pretty much any console. Multiply that by all the consoles and say 5% of total sales are lost to piracy and that adds up. Also used games should be a part of that too as the economy is in the dumps and people are looking to save wherever they can.

I personally think M11 is fun and maybe M10 plays a little better but overall M11 is not the worst Football game ever made. I think that title goes to Sierra's FB Pro back in the 90's when it was recalled by the company.

So yeah i'm all for more choices but it ain't going to happen for a very long time no matter how much we wish it to happen. I still think Madden's problem is no competition and the same can be said for NBA 2K if EA ever decides to pull the plug on it's NBA game and the same might happen to EA's NHL game no matter how good it currently is. If every year you have one choice it will feel and play similar to the year before so you may encounter gamers skipping a year or two.

As much as NHL 11 was lauded on DSP it feels like NHL 10 and I couldn't detect the subtle changes that others saw. So i'll be skipping NHL 11 this year since I still have NHL 10. Insert Madden, here.

[DivotMaker]

I think for GT it's nothing more than wishing we had more choices to pick from and I get where he's coming from. I wish we had more choices and so does pretty much everyone else here.

I personally have no issue with anyone wanting more out of any game as I have been pining for years for EA to make Tiger a more realistic representation of the PGA TOUR and this also parallels what is going on with Madden. TW11 for the consoles is THE best Golf game I have played in YEARS, if not ever. Every year, Tiburon (you know those hated Devs) have listened to their EA Tiger forum community as well as numerous focus groups and are delivering more realistic features. Yet, when you look at Tiger's sales numbers, they are down from last year, significantly so for the Wii and the Wii version of TW11 THE most realistic playing Golf game I have ever played. The way I see it, this is one of the biggest issues that EA faces today...how do they appeal to the widest audience possible? They are delivering more realistic features and sales are DOWN? It makes me sick when I see this because EA is working hard to make their games more realistic and their sales are flat or going down. It concerns me because if the trend continues, EA may simply say "the arcade market" is where the money is and to heck with realism. I am convinced that they will NEVER deliver the kind of Golf simulation that I am looking for, even though they did with TW2000 for PC. I have come to the conclusion that the only way EA can deliver the kind of game the majority of target users will buy is to offer a game with virtually every gameplay feature 100% editable by the end user. I do not see any other way to do this and it is probably a pretty steep Dev curve to deliver such editable features on such a broad spectrum. I know Madden has sliders for gameplay tweaks, but it sounds as if the functionality is just not there to some users liking. Developing games for a wide audience is an art AND a science and some Devs are able to deliver this and some aren't there yet. I know EA and Peter Moore embrace community feedback on their games and do the best they can with the resources they have to work with, but at some point, they are going to have to do something to stem the tide of declining or flat sales of their EA Sports titles and bring in some new Dev resources to continue to evolve these games and start appealing to wider audience targets. Because of licensing requirements with the NFL, NBA, NHL, FIF, and PGA TOUR, they are not able to extend the development schedule for these games, so the next step is to bring in more Dev resources to these games and/or new Devs to bring some fresh perspectives and ideas to improve the games. Pretty tall order for EA right now with the current marketplace, but I have to say that in order to make money, you have to invest money and take some risks and that is not something EA has felt comfortable with in the past. If game sales don't meet targets after the Christmas buying season, EA will have some tough decisions to make.

[GTHobbes]

I think for GT it's nothing more than wishing we had more choices to pick from and I get where he's coming from.

That's it in a nutshell. I started the firestorm by posting news about Madden's declining sales based on facts (from vgchartz, which has been cited in the Backbreaker thread as the Gospel since June). Immediately, the same people responded with "tired old agenda" remarks, and I should've known better than to let it get to me. Personally, I find news of sales numbers interesting, whether it's Madden, BB, NCAA, The Show, NBA2k, Tiger or NHL11.

[GTHobbes]

Great post, Divot. I've given you a hard time about being a GC in the past, but your above post is right on the money. As an aside, good luck with your TW efforts. I know you care about golf games the way I do football, baseball, hockey and to a lesser extent basketball.

[Aristo]

I really have no idea what TW 11's sales are, but I don't think things areas dire for Madden as some would like to think. They sales are easily strong enough, down or not, for them to make a nice profit. that is a part of the problem. without much effort, Madden really is a cash cow, exclusive license or not. I strongly suspect that development costs are reigned in on Madden so that they can distribute those funs around to other sports games.

Right now, since Peter Moore has taken over, EA's sports game line is really, really strong. Fight Night, Tiger Woods, Fifa, NCAA Football, and NHL are among the best versions of their sports ever produced. Sales for some might not meet expectations, but the base is there for them to lean on for the rest of this generation of consoles. We can all nitpick, but sports gaming on the consoles has never been better. This has come at the expense of the PC and hardcore sims, but that is just the market talking.

Madden is so much better than it has been. If GT wants to to make a case that Madden's sales if going to force a change, he may be saddened to realize that EA would have to see it as going to be less sim, not more. I had no problem ignoring Madden for years, because it wasn't made for me. Madden 09 was the first step in the right direction, and 10 was another giant step towards what I wanted in a football game. The problem is, 11 is is kind of all over the place. some of it I really like, some of it i really don't, and some of it is a wash. But all in all, I am interested in what they do for 12.

Right now, EA is making its big push with its NBA franchise, and so far it looks like Elite will arrive in Madden 09 form, but still struggle against 2K's games. But within a year or two, I will not be surprised if we are talking about it in the same way we talk about the NHL series.

[Rodster]

Are the supposed patches still on track for next week?

[bkrich83]

Are the supposed patches still on track for next week?

The only patch I know of is the NCAA one which is supposed to drop on Tuesday.

[bkrich83]

I think for GT it's nothing more than wishing we had more choices to pick from and I get where he's coming from.

That's it in a nutshell. I started the firestorm by posting news about Madden's declining sales based on facts (from vgchartz, which has been cited in the Backbreaker thread as the Gospel since June). Immediately, the same people responded with "tired old agenda" remarks, and I should've known better than to let it get to me. Personally, I find news of sales numbers interesting, whether it's Madden, BB, NCAA, The Show, NBA2k, Tiger or NHL11.

Hilarity.

[Aristo]

I think for GT it's nothing more than wishing we had more choices to pick from and I get where he's coming from.

That's it in a nutshell. I started the firestorm by posting news about Madden's declining sales based on facts (from vgchartz, which has been cited in the Backbreaker thread as the Gospel since June). Immediately, the same people responded with "tired old agenda" remarks, and I should've known better than to let it get to me. Personally, I find news of sales numbers interesting, whether it's Madden, BB, NCAA, The Show, NBA2k, Tiger or NHL11.

Hilarity.

Yeah, I wonder if I were to start posting BB sales numbers in the BB thread, and making assumptions based upon them if GT would consider it interesting, or trolling.

There's no doubt it would be trolling. But GT thinks he's just offering interesting discussion in the Madden thread.

[vader29]

Are the supposed patches still on track for next week?

The only patch I know of is the NCAA one which is supposed to drop on Tuesday.

Posts on the Madden forums say the patch for the old audible system is supposed to come out a week before the regular season starts and the gameplay patch will come out at the end of the month.

[JRod]

Good info Scoop....nice to see facts injected into discussions full of opinions.....

That's kind of insulting to GT. Was he just making up numbers from VG charts. Come on Tim, this is a lazy statement.


I'm not busting out math skills but if Madden looks at total units (which is stupid because the PS2 will not increase in sales) then yes Madden has seen a decrease. Numbers don't lie but you can swing them anyway you want. Less sales in the PS2 market does hurt EA Sports because they aren't making up for those sales in the next-gen market. However, logically, EA has probably estimated a decrease in PS2 sales and adjusted internal budgets accordingly.

Sorry, but I can see the "agenda" that a few of you have against Madden and anything EA and I do believe it taints many of your posts. Above, Scoop produces numbers that show Madden increasing in sales while you and GT claim the game is losing sales "for six consecutive years". So whose numbers do we believe? Frankly, I do not believe any of them. EA has numbers they work with and if what you and GT speculate were actually true, EA would have already made wholesale changes in the Madden Dev Team. Talk of TW11 sales being down did not influence EA making wholesale changes with their TW console Dev Team as they are already working on TW12 with all but 2 members of the 11 Dev Team. I think some of you are using the sales numbers to make yourselves feel good about and to justify your disdain for Madden and EA. You spare no opportunity to run Tiburon in the ground here, but do either of you actually post in the EA Madden forums? If you don't, then why do you care what the game is like? Ranting and raving here is not going to change a damn thing about Madden or ANY EA Sports game. If you want to impact ANY game, you have to become vocal in the forums and the EA Sports Dev Blogs.

Agendas mean you come in hear and have a preconceived notion of trying to sway someone to your point of view.

I think everyone's agenda is pretty clear, we want to the best game for our money. Now what that means it up for debate.

And look Tiburon and EA brought this upon themselves, when EA Canada is receiving the plaudits from NHL and FIFA and Tiburon gets harsher treatment, who's to blame here? Forum posters for SPENDING $60 to play a video game.

At the end of the day, you give off the attitude like we should be grateful for Tiburon for making a Madden game because otherwise what else would we do without them. EA is in money making business, and that money comes from us. I can never understand why companies take this condescending attitude towards their customers. It's the companies that never take their base for granted are the ones that seem to innovate and offer the best product to their customers.

And as for posting on EA forums, granted this discussion board is becoming more fragmented as the years drag one but I don't think those that post do so in the off chance that EA is looking here. Just a few like-minded people talking about games. Or trying to but we can't even seem to do that.

[bkrich83]

At the end of the day, you give off the attitude like we should be grateful for Tiburon for making a Madden game because otherwise what else would we do without them.

Really Jrod you're going to lecture someone on attitude? Please.

[bkrich83]

Are the supposed patches still on track for next week?

The only patch I know of is the NCAA one which is supposed to drop on Tuesday.

Posts on the Madden forums say the patch for the old audible system is supposed to come out a week before the regular season starts and the gameplay patch will come out at the end of the month.

Ahh gotcha, I haven't really been keeping up. Just saw the note on the NCAA patch. I could care less about the audible system update, I don't really have an issue with the strat pad. I am interested in the gameplay patch however.

[bkrich83]

There's no doubt it would be trolling. But GT thinks he's just offering interesting discussion in the Madden thread.

he knows exactly what he's doing it's his attempt to play the victim in the whole thing, as if he's unbiased and is just interested in the sales numbers and people are jumping on him without reason.

[JRod]

At the end of the day, you give off the attitude like we should be grateful for Tiburon for making a Madden game because otherwise what else would we do without them.

Really Jrod you're going to lecture someone on attitude? Please.

Personal shot there BK?

This forum is pretty pointless...we can't even discuss a game then "personal agendas" get throw into it. It is mentally impossible to understand what's one persona agenda on here. We can't even talk about sales numbers without someone saying, with your impression is pointless because I don't like your personal agenda.

As for attitude, tone might be a better word but the nuances of language are pretty must lost here because everyone is looking to go personal first.

[bkrich83]

Personal shot there BK?

Not at all. Just found it funny you of all people were talking down to someone about attitude.

..we can't even discuss a game then "personal agendas" get throw into it. It is mentally impossible to understand what's one persona agenda on here. We can't even talk about sales numbers without someone saying, with your impression is pointless because I don't like your personal agenda.

The funny part is it has nothing to do with liking or not liking someone's opinion. People like you and GT simply don't get that. Instead of simply discussing the game, the agenda takes over and all chance at a balanced and unbiased conversation go out the window. We all know your schtick, as well as GT's. He doesn't even play the game, yet likely has the most posts in this thread. All under the guise of being interested in the sales numbers.

As for attitude, tone might be a better word but the nuances of language are pretty must lost here because everyone is looking to go personal first.

Only a few people took anything in here personally and we all know why. Some comments hit a little too close to home.

[JRod]

Personal shot there BK?

Not at all. Just found it funny you of all people were talking down to someone about attitude.

..we can't even discuss a game then "personal agendas" get throw into it. It is mentally impossible to understand what's one persona agenda on here. We can't even talk about sales numbers without someone saying, with your impression is pointless because I don't like your personal agenda.

The funny part is it has nothing to do with liking or not liking someone's opinion. People like you and GT simply don't get that. Instead of simply discussing the game, the agenda takes over and all chance at a balanced and unbiased conversation go out the window. We all know your schtick, as well as GT's. He doesn't even play the game, yet likely has the most posts in this thread. All under the guise of being interested in the sales numbers.

As for attitude, tone might be a better word but the nuances of language are pretty must lost here because everyone is looking to go personal first.

Only a few people took anything in here personally and we all know why. Some comments hit a little too close to home.

What's my schtik, exactly? I remember saying that I thought the pro-tak in NCAA was a joke, one aspect of the game that I didn't like and having people saying or you just being negative. On the other hand, I'll talk about FIFA or PES and the things they do well. I was one of the first to bring up AI problems in BB pre-patch and there were. You won't have an answer to that because the stuff I like and post, aren't really noticed, the negative things are.

People are unable to think that criticism and an agenda are not the same thing.

[bkrich83]

People are unable to think that criticism and an agenda are not the same thing.

The funny part is I think you actually believe that. Like I said your schtick got old long ago.

[Rodster]

[bkrich83]

hardly.

[Badgun]

Personally, I like Madden 11. As a matter of fact I am tickled to death that we have two excellent football games this year. I would love to have more choices as well, but we don't so you gotta play the cards you're dealt with or sit out. I choose to play what we have instead of bitching about what we don't have.

I'm sure one day soon someone else will enter the sports game arena to give EA some competition, but until that day as long as Madden and NCAA play an acceptable game of football, I will buy them.

I used to be a lot like GT is, as a matter of fact I remember the days of pretty much me and him being the only two people bitching about Madden or NCAA over at OS. Me, being the passionate asshole that I am, got banned several times for being "too passionate" . I wanted the perfect football game and there were so many things to b*tch about back then, but something happened along the way and I reached a peaceful state. I didn't care much for Madden 7, 8, or 9, but 10 was the mecca for me. I have never played a football game into June and July before, but I did with Madden 10.

Now I haven't started a franchise yet with 11, but the game seems improved to me in the exhibition games I played. I was going to wait for updated rosters and the patch before I started, but if its going to be the end of September I may go ahead and start now.

For the record I had high hopes for Backbreaker, but after playing the demo I thought the game was awful. Loved the animations, but the gameplay just sucked for me. And, like All Pro Football, which actually featured real players, I can't play a football game with generic teams or players...just can't do it.

So I hold out hope that someday someone else will make a football game and be a worthy competitor to Madden and NCAA, but until that day I will continue to buy EA's offerings unless they completely screw the games up, but I doubt that will happen.

[Rodster]

Personally, I like Madden 11. As a matter of fact I am tickled to death that we have two excellent football games this year. I would love to have more choices as well, but we don't so you gotta play the cards you're dealt with or sit out. I choose to play what we have instead of bitching about what we don't have.

I used to be a lot like GT is, as a matter of fact I remember the days of pretty much me and him being the only two people bitching about Madden or NCAA over at OS. Me, being the passionate asshole that I am, got banned several times for being "too passionate" . I wanted the perfect football game and there were so many things to b*tch about back then, but something happened along the way and I reached a peaceful state. I didn't care much for Madden 7, 8, or 9, but 10 was the mecca for me. I have never played a football game into June and July before, but I did with Madden 10.

Now I haven't started a franchise yet with 11, but the game seems improved to me in the exhibition games I played. I was going to wait for updated rosters and the patch before I started, but if its going to be the end of September I may go ahead and start now.

For the record I had high hopes for Backbreaker, but after playing the demo I thought the game was awful. Loved the animations, but the gameplay just sucked for me. And, like All Pro Football, which actually featured real players, I can't play a football game with generic teams or players...just can't do it.

So I hold out hope that someday someone else will make a football game and be a worthy competitor to Madden and NCAA, but until that day I will continue to buy EA's offerings unless they completely screw the games up, but I doubt that will happen.

You and I both realized that until the NFL decides against exclusive contracts there's very little we can do. I like M11, it's fun but I enjoy M10 a little more. Still M11 is not a terrible game it's just trying to be a jack of all trades and a master of none.

[DivotMaker]

Agendas mean you come in hear and have a preconceived notion of trying to sway someone to your point of view.

I think everyone's agenda is pretty clear, we want to the best game for our money. Now what that means it up for debate.

Hate to say it, but we all have "agendas" which really are nothing more than biased opinions. We earn our "bias" when we pony up the $ to play whatever game we are posting about. I get that.

And look Tiburon and EA brought this upon themselves, when EA Canada is receiving the plaudits from NHL and FIFA and Tiburon gets harsher treatment, who's to blame here? Forum posters for SPENDING $60 to play a video game.

Who is to blame? Users who come into threads like this looking for any and every negative thing they can find about the game and then expand on that. Look, NHL nor FIFA are not perfect games. They ARE great games and users interested in those sports enjoy them for what they are. Would EA like to have an EA Canada type Dev Team for EVERY EA Sports game? You can count on it. However, the reality is that some Dev Teams are better than others and some features in different games are hard to pull off in the quest for "all out realism". No one is blaming forum posters who spend their $60 on a video game, but forum posters who come into threads about that game and continually look for nothing but the negatives and dismissing the positives is the issue. Do the sales of Madden have any real relevance to how good the game is or should be? It is not up to me to decide that nor any one user, but I think the responses are pretty clear that bringing up sales numbers to further criticize a game and a Developer is unnecessary and "agenda-ish".

At the end of the day, you give off the attitude like we should be grateful for Tiburon for making a Madden game because otherwise what else would we do without them. EA is in money making business, and that money comes from us. I can never understand why companies take this condescending attitude towards their customers. It's the companies that never take their base for granted are the ones that seem to innovate and offer the best product to their customers.

I give off the attitude? Just exactly HOW does my post come off as condescending or having the attitude you describe above? Sorry, but I believe your years-long personal bias against me is coming through yet again. The TW11 Dev Team DID innovate this year and the feedback I have seen from users wanting more realism here, OS and on the EA forums is "two thumbs up", yet you stated in the TW11 thread all the issues you have with the game and were unimpressed with the innovations. While you are entitled to your opinion, that is the kind of "thread-crapping" that users in THIS thread are complaining about.

And as for posting on EA forums, granted this discussion board is becoming more fragmented as the years drag one but I don't think those that post do so in the off chance that EA is looking here. Just a few like-minded people talking about games. Or trying to but we can't even seem to do that.

I have told you and others here for years now that if you want EA to hear your comments, you must post on the EA forums because that is where they spend the majority of their forum time. I know the TW Devs do. If you choose not to offer EA your feedback on Madden in their own forums, that is on you. I know of a number of features in TW11 that would NOT be in the game were it not for user-feedback on the EA Tiger forums.

At the end of the day, when you have a history of posting mostly negative comments about a game and/or developer, then you get labeled as having an agenda. I have been accused of that here for a number of years regarding TW and early on, I probably deserved the criticism. I finally realized that everyone has an opinion GOOD OR BAD and they are entitled to it. However, when the game or developer improves the game and the majority of feedback is positive, yet you come in and continue with the same criticisms or new criticisms, others tend to label you as having an agenda and there is nothing the developer can do to make you happy as a user. I have been openly critical of EA for many of their features and issues with TW games in the past few years and now I can see things alot more clearly from the users point of view. It is okay to agree with someone who likes a game just as much as it is okay to agree with someone who doesn't.

[dbdynsty25]

For the love of f*ck...Madden impressions.