MLB Baseball 2009 Season Thread

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:07 am

Why would LaRussa flat out "know"? I have no doubt he suspected - probably STRONGLY suspected, but knowing would imply he saw something or Mac admitted it in private. I doubt LaRussa watched Mac stick needles in his ass.

Score another one for Canseco.

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:32 pm

Larussa did know and he should be the poster child for the steroid era in baseball.

Tim

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:08 pm

I'm actually amazed at the amount of discussion the McGwire announcement has created. Another lesson learned for Big Mac: never announce you took roids on a slow news day.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:43 pm

greggsand wrote:I'm actually amazed at the amount of discussion the McGwire announcement has created. Another lesson learned for Big Mac: never announce you took roids on a slow news day.

Wasn't Pete Carroll announced as the new coach of the Seahawks on the same day?

In any case, I see both sides of this story. While I admire him coming out and admitting he used steroids, he didn't say they helped with his performance. Why he can't admit to that, I don't understand. All he had to say is that it's possible it contributed to his power surge, but he defended his stance which just added fuel to the fire for all the critics out there.

LaRussa is another story. You gotta be blind if you don't see your big sluggers growing by leaps and bounds and not attribute it to a performance enhancer. That doesn't just happen by lifting and taking protein shakes!

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:55 pm

when viewing the McGwire interview. One word comes to mind: sickening

are alot of people in this life who i feel sorry for. He's not one of them

far as LaRussa. Am very thankful for his work involving animal rights. Will leave it at that

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:01 pm

Everyone with half a brain already knew he was a cheater and a liar. This just confirmed it for the fools.....

I think it would be easier or less time consuming to name those that did not use rather than those that did use.

Hell, I am sure guys that were not even very good like Jeff Blauser used.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:27 pm

greggsand wrote: Score another one for Canseco.

The only guy with anything to do with MLB telling any part of truth.

The commish
The managers
The players
The writers
The broadcasters.

They all were...All of them....All f***in lying sacks of s***...

All groups were complicit in the big steroid lie. They all played their own parts big and small.

Canseco ...well hes a rat

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:33 pm

XXXIV wrote:
greggsand wrote: Score another one for Canseco.
The only guy with anything to do with MLB telling any part of truth.

The commish
The managers
The players
The writers
The broadcasters.

They all were...All of them....All f***in lying sacks of s***...scumbags.

only part which bother me with Canseco is he reversed his story involving Roger Clemens and took a payoff. Therefore, he is scum too

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XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:34 pm

vinny-b wrote: only part which bother me with Canseco is he reversed his story involving Roger Clemens and took a payoff. Therefore, he is scum too

I was slow with my edit....Hes rat scum. Dont like him either.

I think there were plenty of players who didnt use and for them I feel bad.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:43 pm

Last part of my baseball steroid rant...

In my mind, of the groups I mentioned in my other post, Bud Selig is THE MOST TO BLAME. He, his fellow owners and his pals at ESPN( My favorite example of media love of itself) knew what was up. They were loving it too much to do a damn thing.

This worthless bastard f*** keeps on lying...It will be a cold day in hell before this d***** admits his part.

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:50 pm

XXXIV wrote:
vinny-b wrote: only part which bother me with Canseco is he reversed his story involving Roger Clemens and took a payoff. Therefore, he is scum too
I was slow with my edit....Hes rat scum. Dont like him either.

I think there were plenty of players who didnt use and for them I feel bad.

bein a NYY fan this will be difficult to believe. Yet of the ones 'using' the only one who i believe it is a shame is - Manny. Of the ones who were exposed, he is the only one who was a suprise (to me). The most natural hitter of my lifetime (Tony Gwynn + power). And he was the same exact hitter when dating back to high school. I don't like Manny. Yet his absence from Cooperstown is a shame
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greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:32 pm

sportdan30 wrote:
greggsand wrote:I'm actually amazed at the amount of discussion the McGwire announcement has created. Another lesson learned for Big Mac: never announce you took roids on a slow news day.
Wasn't Pete Carroll announced as the new coach of the Seahawks on the same day?

In any case, I see both sides of this story. While I admire him coming out and admitting he used steroids, he didn't say they helped with his performance. Why he can't admit to that, I don't understand. All he had to say is that it's possible it contributed to his power surge, but he defended his stance which just added fuel to the fire for all the critics out there.

LaRussa is another story. You gotta be blind if you don't see your big sluggers growing by leaps and bounds and not attribute it to a performance enhancer. That doesn't just happen by lifting and taking protein shakes!

The Pete story broke on Friday and was discussed to death by the time of the Monday presser.

Anyway, I guess people can single out LaRussa, but why just him? Mac had teammates, other coaches, management, and agents working just as closely with Mac as LaRussa. I guess Tony is an easy target because he is still in the game, easily recognizable, and a lock as a HOF manager, but there are 100's of players & management with their hands dirty from the steroids era. The entire sports was caught up in the success roids brought to baseball in 1995. Why slay the golden goose? It's not like baseball has suffered in the $$$ department because of roids anyway. Other than wacky sideshows like this, business is booming!

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:40 pm

greggsand wrote:The entire sports was caught up in the success roids brought to baseball in 1995.

Please don't taint the Braves championship season. It's the only championship that ANY of my professional teams have.

You mean 1998.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:08 pm

tjung0831 wrote:Larussa did know and he should be the poster child for the steroid era in baseball.

Tim

Nail on the head...

LaRussa pretty much lives with these players 9 months out of a year and he doesn't "know" who's roiding up? PUHLEESE!

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:22 pm

MizzouRah wrote:LaRussa pretty much lives with these players 9 months out of a year and he doesn't "know" who's roiding up? PUHLEESE!

or in other words: come'on man

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:28 pm

A couple of things that people also forget regarding Larussa. When he took over, one of the first things he did was let long time Cardinals trainer Gene Gieselmann go and bring in his own guy Barry Weinberg. Gieselmann was as much a part of the Cardinals as any player or coach could ever be. That's the first red flag right there.
He also brought in coach Dave McKay who was a long time cohort of Larussa. McKay actually co-authored a book with Canseco regarding fitness and training. how about this shocker....Dave's son Cody McKay was named in the Mitchell report for using banned substances.

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:40 pm

tjung0831 wrote:A couple of things that people also forget regarding Larussa. When he took over, one of the first things he did was let long time Cardinals trainer Gene Gieselmann go and bring in his own guy Barry Weinberg. Gieselmann was as much a part of the Cardinals as any player or coach could ever be. That's the first red flag right there.
He also brought in coach Dave McKay who was a long time cohort of Larussa. McKay actually co-authored a book with Canseco regarding fitness and training. how about this shocker....Dave's son Cody McKay was named in the Mitchell report for using banned substances.

wasn't that Barry dude (trainer) also in Oakland? Very interesting

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:05 pm

So La Russa cares about abuse against animals but not humans abusing their own bodies?

He wins just enough that teams don't want to change managers but for all the talent he's had, he's won once in Oakland and what, once in St. Louis?

GTHobbes · Post by **GTHobbes** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:58 pm

The question in my mind is how far back the use of steroids really goes.

I remember seeing Sandy Koufax say in his retirement press release back in 1966 that he was retiring because his arm was killing him and he didn't know what kind've long term effects the steroids that the doctors were pushing would have on his body.

We know Mike Webster and other guys on the Steelers' teams of the 70s used steroids.

I don't know why so many people think steroids didn't hit baseball until Big Mac and Sosa came along. My guess is baseball players were using them even before Koufax back in the 60s. Whether it's stealing signs, using spit balls, tarred bats, corked bats, etc., baseball players always have been willing to do anything to get the edge on their opponent.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:06 pm

Heard that steroids have been around since the '30s.

The Eastern Bloc was suspected of using steroids for Olympics athletes at least as far back as the '50s.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 6:57 pm

wco81 wrote:So La Russa cares about abuse against animals but not humans abusing their own bodies?

He wins just enough that teams don't want to change managers but for all the talent he's had, he's won once in Oakland and what, once in St. Louis?

He wins a lot - def more than 'just enough'. He's the only manager to ever win a WS in both leagues. He's 3rd on the all time wins list. He's won manager of the year 4 times (3 AL, 1 NL). He won the NL Central 7 times in the 2000's alone (think about that)! Teams would kill for half of those playoff opportunities.

The reason LaRaussa is so revered as a manager isn't because "he had all that talent", it's because he won with lesser talent. The White Sox, A's and STL aren't the biggest spenders in the league, but he has a knack to get into the playoffs. Some of those cardinal teams in the 2000's were a complete joke, yet he won. Look at 2006 - that was probably the worst team to ever win a WS. I'd be curious what "slam dunk" team he's had in STL that didn't do what they should. 2004 was probably the closest you get, but they ran into a Sox team still high on punking the Yankees. No one was going to stop them.

End of rant. Go cards!

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:28 pm

St. Louis should not have lost to the Dodgers in the playoffs this past season.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:53 pm

wco81 wrote:St. Louis should not have lost to the Dodgers in the playoffs this past season.

lol. agreed.... But wasn't Chicago supposed to win the division in the 1st place?

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:37 pm

vinny-b wrote:
MizzouRah wrote:LaRussa pretty much lives with these players 9 months out of a year and he doesn't "know" who's roiding up? PUHLEESE!
or in other words: come'on man

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:24 am

"An informant told The News on Tuesday that Mark McGwire's regimen put him closer to the "Pumping Iron" culture of the mid-1980s than to the more conservative HGH use and hormone therapy promoted today by the booming anti-aging industry. The informant said Jose Canseco and McGwire were clearly in an arms race, lifting weights and shooting drugs to out-do one another's physique when the jerseys came off in the locker room. -New York Post"

canseco and mcwire = El Hans and Mc Franz

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