OT - Financial mess 101 ($700 billion bailout)

[XXXIV]

Political thread.

[Rodster]

Political thread.

Shhhhh not so loud.

[JackB1]

Political thread.

Shhhhh not so loud.

deleted

[Rodster]

Political thread.

Shhhhh not so loud.

How long until this thread gets locked too?

Here's an idea. Why doesn't someone start up their own forum or blog somewhere else, just so we can discuss these things without worrying about offending the rest of the forum? I would do it if I knew how.

Zetaboards offer free forums. If you want to I can give you the name to an admin of a site which so happens to be on Zetaboards.

PM me if your interested.

[Feanor]

In before the lock.

We're heading down an ugly road in our lives. There are no easy answers and no quick fixes. If things don't improve over the next couple years nationally, I can see a major move to revolt against the government. Globally, we are heading toward World War III. And to be quite honest with you, another World War could be the best answer to solve this hardship. Look at the Roaring 20's after World War I and how glamorous life was in the 1950s after World War II.

In the meantime, I'm well stocked on popcorn to see how all this unfolds...

The Roaring 20s were built on a house of cards that were always to going to collapse; the powers of the time tried to continue with the pre-WWI gold standard even though the world economy had changed so much it was never going to work, and it actually made things worse. Wishing for another World War that would kill millions of people because of a bad recession is cra... not something I agree with.

[JackB1]

deleted

[webdanzer]

FWIW, IMO discussion of the financial situation and bailout measures, structure, etc, does not HAVE to be political in nature...

[JackB1]

FWIW, IMO discussion of the financial situation and bailout measures, structure, etc, does not HAVE to be political in nature...

It's a tricky one.....

The "bailout" is a government plan and would have to be considered "political".

The "financial situation" can or cannot be considered "political".
Depends on who you think is to blame

[pk500]

It's a tricky one.....

The "bailout" is a government plan and would have to be considered "political".

The "financial situation" can or cannot be considered "political".
Depends on who you think is to blame

For f*ck's sake, Jack, why?

The conversation has been civil, informative and apolitical, so why the f*ck even raise the question of politics?

As "The Rick" said in the old ESPN ads, you need to "let it go."

FWIW, IMO discussion of the financial situation and bailout measures, structure, etc, does not HAVE to be political in nature...

Exactly. And I don't think this thread has turned political at all. We're talking more about economics, finance and world markets.

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

It's a tricky one.....

The "bailout" is a government plan and would have to be considered "political".

The "financial situation" can or cannot be considered "political".
Depends on who you think is to blame

For f*ck's sake, Jack, why?

The conversation has been civil, informative and apolitical, so why the f*ck even raise the question of politics?

As "The Rick" said in the old ESPN ads, you need to "let it go."

FWIW, IMO discussion of the financial situation and bailout measures, structure, etc, does not HAVE to be political in nature...

Exactly. And I don't think this thread has turned political at all. We're talking more about economics, finance and world markets.

Take care,
PK

I didn't raise it, 34 did. And I don't know why just the mention of the word "politics" gets everyone crazy. Geez. Talk about touchy.

Just forget it and go back to your discussion.

[Naples39]

[pk500]

OK, 34 and Jack -- for f*ck's sake, why?

Touchy? You bet, at least right now. We just finished having basically what amounts to a DSP "intervention" -- a time of real, honest upheaval for this place -- last weekend with a resolution that was approved by the vast majority around here.

Everything was just getting back to some sense of normalcy, contributions were being made to an increasing number of threads, including by some new, cool posters such as toonarmy.

And now politics are being placed front and center again, when it's as obvious as a festering boil on a porn star's tit that hardly anyone around here wants it?

Explain to me how that makes sense. I'm all eyes.

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

never mind

[Jared]

Very quick response,

XXXIV's comment was clearly a joke. The financial crisis, while it has political aspects (obviously) has a lot of apolitical parts as well. People on these forums are losing their jobs, seeing changes in the economy, etc. and I want people to be free to discuss it. As long as this thread doesn't get overtly partisan, I'm fine with it. See PK's comments. And I'm not locking this thread unless it crosses a line (personal attacks or overtly political). And I will not spend the time laying out every possible hypothetical situation that is a do or a don't re: threads and political comment...if you have common sense, just use it, and things will be fine.

As for your other actions Jack, check your PMs.

[JackB1]

.....obvious as a festering boil on a porn star's tit

Take care,
PK

pardon the interuption, but...

gotta love you Paul

I just reread your analogy and couldn't stop laughing

[XXXIV]

Very quick response,

XXXIV's comment was clearly a joke. .

I was going to type something else but it seemed to me to be a political post...So I went with something else.

Thought that would be funnier. I tried

[F308GTB]

I'm of the belief that giving people a $500-600 stimulus check will not solve the answer in the long term unless the Gov't is prepared to write these checks every month. The better option is to stimulate businesses with tax credits so they in turn can create jobs.

Even better would be either government backed rebates or tax credits for purchasing certain items - cars to prop up the auto industry rather than giving them straight cash to burn, American airlines/hotels to stimulate tourism, furniture, etc. You certainly don't stimulate just giving people money, but give them a good incentive to buy goods...

[F308GTB]

Say what? About the only thing on this list that's self-contained is space exploration. And I bet F308GTB could tell us about NASA technology that is exported to other countries that explore space.

It really goes both ways. For example, on Space Station there's quite a bit of government, Boeing, Lockheed, etc developed hardware that has either been sold directly or bartered for services to the Europeans and Japanese. But we likewise get a lot of hardware (e.g., avionics) from overseas vendors. We also paid an Italian company (Alenia) many $$$ to build some Station elements after Boeing dropped the ball. But there is quite a strong market (well, there was up until recently) for American provided items - aluminum, titanium, steel, etc. When it comes to rocket engines, you can bet the US gets many customers from overseas. But then you have all the software and such for analysis. A lot comes from the US, but also we get a large amount from overseas. It's a global deal.

The commercial space sector is pretty competitive. Launch services aren't cheap, and honestly startups are having difficulty compared to providers getting more government backing (e.g., Boeing's Delta getting a fair amount of support, Ariane 5 with French govt. support, Mitsubishi's H-IIA/B getting leverage from JAXA). Just last week I was at SpaceX, a private company started by paypal (and Tesla Motorcars) founder Elon Musk. They are trying to make a name in the industry, and if they get a few more positive flights under their belt they've got a promising future getting overseas payload clients. Plus they want to develop a man-rated vehicle which would likely have some sort of tourism aspect to it. The Russians certainly know there's no shortage of clients paying $20+ million a pop for a week on the Space Station.

[wco81]

I'm of the belief that giving people a $500-600 stimulus check will not solve the answer in the long term unless the Gov't is prepared to write these checks every month. The better option is to stimulate businesses with tax credits so they in turn can create jobs.

Even better would be either government backed rebates or tax credits for purchasing certain items - cars to prop up the auto industry rather than giving them straight cash to burn, American airlines/hotels to stimulate tourism, furniture, etc. You certainly don't stimulate just giving people money, but give them a good incentive to buy goods...

I haven't heard of stimulus checks being part of this plan. One big part is extended unemployment benefits and extending health care to unemployed people, however.

It's kind of hard to separate this from politics. The vote was mostly along party lines and the explanation for the economic problems and proposals to address them are all linked to political philosophies.

That said, this crisis may become the most important issue of our times. Either we return to economic health or we're broke for generations again.

[Rodster]

I haven't heard of stimulus checks being part of this plan. One big part is extended unemployment benefits and extending health care to unemployed people, however.

Part of President Obama's campaign promises was to issue stimulus checks to the middle class and poor even if you didn't pay income tax there's a check waiting for you. It's not in this bill but it's the follow up which he want's to get into the people's hands sometime this year.

That said, this crisis may become the most important issue of our times. Either we return to economic health or we're broke for generations again.

Which is why i'm becoming more and more convinced this is not a deep recession but the first phase of a financial meltdown and the beginning of another depression.

[pk500]

That said, this crisis may become the most important issue of our times. Either we return to economic health or we're broke for generations again.

That's my big question: With $815 billion in stimulus and $700 billion in bailouts, how the hell are we ever going to close a huge budget deficit that just had $1.515 trillion piled on top of it?

Sure, the Treasury can print more money. Hello, inflation.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Which is why i'm becoming more and more convinced this is not a deep recession but the first phase of a financial meltdown and the beginning of another depression.

The retail writer for the Syracuse Post-Standard has been calling it a "decession" since mid-December, when it became obvious that retail would take a beating during the holiday shopping season.

I think "decession" is pretty accurate -- for now.

Take care,
PK

[JackB1]

That said, this crisis may become the most important issue of our times. Either we return to economic health or we're broke for generations again.

That's my big question: With $815 billion in stimulus and $700 billion in bailouts, how the hell are we ever going to close a huge budget deficit that just had $1.515 trillion piled on top of it?

Sure, the Treasury can print more money. Hello, inflation.

Take care,
PK

Good question PK. I dont think anyone has the answer to that one. I think the idea is to spend money to hopefully make (more) money.
What I dont get, is why isn't bringing our boys home from Iraq ASAP a priority anymore? That's 1 Billion $$$ a week being spent over there, that we could be pumping into our own economy.

[pk500]

I just hope unemployment can stay below double digits.

Take care,
PK

[Feanor]

A little bit of inflation and negative real interest rates wouldn't be too bad right now. Nominal interest rates can't go any lower.

http://blogs.ft.com/wolfforum/2009/01/d ... till-work/