Soccer thread 07/08

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:10 am

Very good point JR, but a lot is currently riding on whether our Thai overlord's political party (the PPP) can form a stable coalition after their elections..they are the largest single party with about 45% of the seats, but no overall majority.

If so, and assuming the military junta actually relinquish power, then Thaksin will get his hands back on the money still in Thailand and the signings should recommence in earnest.

But Berbatov....yeah, I'd sign him if we had the dollars.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:01 pm

Sad news from an SPL game today, where Motherwell captain (and ex-Sheff Wed player) Phil O'Donnell collapsed and died during their game with Dundee Utd, at the age of 35.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 164150.stm

As if to make things worse, if that were possible, his nephew was on the field at the same time, and his wife and 4 kids were at the game.

First reports are that he suffered a seizure and never regained consciousness, which sounds similar to what happened to Marc-Vivien Foe a few years back.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:31 pm

Sad news indeed. RIP

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:55 pm

Missing: Everything but the kitchen sink
Possible Location: Manchester City goal
Possible Suspect: Richard Dunne

*shakes fist*

EDIT: Was classic to hear Effan Ekoku say that title challengers should be able to come to places like City and grind out a win. lol what a muppet

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:09 pm

Macca00 wrote:Missing: Everything but the kitchen sink
Possible Location: Manchester City goal
Possible Suspect: Richard Dunne

*shakes fist*

EDIT: Was classic to hear Effan Ekoku say that title challengers should be able to come to places like City and grind out a win. lol what a muppet

He was just immense! That said, I think the attacking players on both sides were showing some serious fatigue. City did an excellent job on Torres, and they had the right ref to ease the work. When the NFL-style tackle on him in the first two minutes didn't produce a whistle, you knew what kind of a day it was going to be for him.

Still can't believe that furious finish didn't produce a goal, though.

Entertaining, if not great, game nonetheless. All credit to City for quality defending, for sure.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:31 pm

I just wish that City had shown a bit more adventure.

To be honest, having just got back from the game, Liverpool aren't a patch on Arsenal or MU, despite all the big name players that they have. They just don't seem to create that last killer pass often enough.

As for Efan Ekoku, I'm presuming that he's read about title challengers. because I don't remember him playing for any.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:06 pm

davet010 wrote: To be honest, having just got back from the game, Liverpool aren't a patch on Arsenal or MU, despite all the big name players that they have. They just don't seem to create that last killer pass often enough.

I agree to a point, but I think part of the reason for the absence of that final touch is the amount of experience that the relative sides have playing with each other. ManU added Anderson, and Arsenal Eduardo. Important additions, but really add-ons to a solid core of players.

LFC have added Torres, Babel and Benayoun. I think you may see the gap narrow as the number of miscommunications among the Liverpool attackers decreases...hopefully

Of course the title race may be done and dusted by that point, but c'est la guerre.

I was a bit surprised at the lack of teeth in City's game in the second half, as they spent a good deal of the first instilling Arbeloa-derived cardiac arrest among Reds supporters.

PS. I think that Dunne and Mascherano together could've taken the other 20 players on the pitch by themselves.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:14 pm

Dunno about that first point, Rob, as Utd also added that cheating get who shouldn't be allowed to play in the Prem as he breaks a number of key rules..sorry, Carlos Tevez.

As for City being toothless, playing on the counter was the gameplan, but Liverpool were so relentless, and City generally so slow, that countering was put behind covering as a preference.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:53 pm

You were due an away win, Dave...

PK, my dear fellow, I've been listening to the local radio and it appears that there isn't a single man in the Newcastle United squad capable of hitting the broad side of a barn.

Macca00 · Post by **Macca00** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:58 pm

Liverpool's title challenge is well and truly sunk by a thunderbolt goal from.....
....from.....

TITUS BRAMBLE

f uck me. well that's this season done. I'm off to either hide under a rock or kill myself.

Stop laughing, JRod....actually, no, it is kinda funny.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:41 pm

GB_Simo wrote:You were due an away win, Dave...

PK, my dear fellow, I've been listening to the local radio and it appears that there isn't a single man in the Newcastle United squad capable of hitting the broad side of a barn.

Is anyone saying give Sam more time? I'll try to listen to 606 later on. But I'm curious to see if the broadsheets tomorrow talk about saving Sam.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:51 pm

So A. Ferguson critizices old trafford fans for their lack of support in their narrow win over lowly Birmingham. Does he know how crappy his team played?

Real makes a strong pitch for C. Ronaldo's services. And the whole world knows the style of football in Spain is more to his liking than where he is now.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:03 pm

Edit: I can't quote. Fixed, I hope.

JRod wrote:]Is anyone saying give Sam more time?

In Newcastle? Not many I'm aware of, mate. It makes no difference who the manager is, though - until they're playing like Arsenal every week the Geordies will be complaining. It's as if there's some kind of mental switch that's flicked the instant someone begins to point out that no team featuring Nicky Butt, James Milner, Alan Smith and Mark Viduka is ever going to be considered as one of the country's top teams.

RobVarak · Post by **RobVarak** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:09 pm

Macca00 wrote:Liverpool's title challenge is well and truly sunk by a thunderbolt goal from.....
....from.....

TITUS BRAMBLE

f uck me. well that's this season done. I'm off to either hide under a rock or kill myself.

Stop laughing, JRod....actually, no, it is kinda funny.

The word "gutted" doesn't even begin to describe it. Just awful.

There's been no stronger supporter of Rafa, but I think that unless he makes one hell of a CL run it's time to bid him adieu. He clearly cannot get his tactics and psychology right when it comes to dealing with the EPL...particularly the poorer teams. You cannot come away with draws at Anfield against drainer scum like Wigan and Birmingham, particularly if you can't get over the hump against ManU et al.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:57 pm

Songs of the night from the City faithful....

To Mr S Allardyce - "Cheerio, cheerio, cheerio"

To Mr J Barton esq - "Can you hear us from your cell ?"

To the self-proclaimed 'Toon fanatical support' after 79 mins - "We can see you sneaking out...."

Nice professional performance from City...and I'm just watching Allardyce being interviewed on the telly, and the only thing missing is a short bloke shouting "Boss, the plane !".

Having said that, I don't want him sacked - because

(a) He'll be able to maintain that it's all Newcastle's fault for having no patience, rather than his for being completely out of his depth...I want him to have a full quota of nightmare seasons.

(b) The fat, bung-taking (still not sued anyone 2 years after being named in a TV program as being involved in illegal transfers with his son acting as agent...despite all his bluster) clown will get a big payoff if he's sacked, and there's always another Premiership board desperate for a manager.

Oh, and Newcastle are not, and never will be, a big club. They are a one team in town outfit whose fans have delusions of grandeur, and who rely on lazy journalists to perpetuate this 'North-East is a hotbed of soccer' nonsense...they'll have 1 Premiership team next year, compared to the 7 from the North-West. I particularly loved the way that large numbers of them put on their disguises as empty seats after City's second goal. The acoustics must be very good in the away end as well, as City fans were all you could hear throughout the game.

Forward with Sven and his all British back 5 !!

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:51 pm

davet010 wrote:They are a one team in town outfit whose fans have delusions of grandeur, and who rely on lazy journalists to perpetuate this 'North-East is a hotbed of soccer' nonsense...they'll have 1 Premiership team next year, compared to the 7 from the North-West.

I hate myself for this, but I don't think the Smoggies will go down...

Edit: It occurs to me now that perhaps you don't think the Smogmonsters are going down either, in which case I'll apologise and wave the Mags a cheery goodbye.

I'm from the north-east and I'd like to run with what Dave said for a bit. Take that hotbed of soccer business a bit further and you really do realise how big a load of cobblers it is. Sidestep the sentimental Charlton brothers and Wallsend Boys Club talk and what you're left with right now is Newcastle (11th, somehow, in the Premiership), Middlesbrough (15th, Prem), Sunderland (18th, Prem), my beloved Hartlepool United (15th, League One) and Darlington (6th, League Two), with bugger all to watch for in the leagues immediately below the Football League structure since Gateshead fell down to Northern Premier level. Talk about core fanbases, the die-hards who'd be there every game come rain, shine or Unibond League, and Newcastle might just about squeak 25,000 or so if they're lucky. Boro have about 15,000 or so die-hards, Pools and Darlo maybe 1,500, 2,000 at a push.

Dave has often compared that to Manchester City's support during their plummet down the divisions of a few seasons ago, when they fell so fast it was said that the top teams in the Conference could actually hear City coming, and noted correctly that City continued to sell out home matches week in, week out even playing in what is now League One. It's a fact that in this supposed hotbed of soccer, we haven't a single club whose fans could honestly say the same should things go belly up. I can't even say 'should the glory days end', because they didn't ever really start. The north east, now more than ever, is an area full of part-time supporters who'll merrily drift off to the DIY stores of a Saturday afternoon should 'their' club hit the skids, and I wish that those continuing to perpetuate the 'north-eastern hotbed of soccer' myth would shove their heads into a lion's open jaws and wait a while.

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:44 am

davet010 wrote:Sad news from an SPL game today, where Motherwell captain (and ex-Sheff Wed player) Phil O'Donnell collapsed and died during their game with Dundee Utd, at the age of 35.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 164150.stm

As if to make things worse, if that were possible, his nephew was on the field at the same time, and his wife and 4 kids were at the game.

First reports are that he suffered a seizure and never regained consciousness, which sounds similar to what happened to Marc-Vivien Foe a few years back.

Good player, just injury prone at Hillsborough. Touch minute applause for him before the game yesterday. Was quite loud through the radio.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:52 pm

Interesting little article on how Billy Beane (who is a part owner of the new SJ MLS franchise, and apparently big fan of Spurs) will attempt to 'moneyball' soccer.

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/st ... ls&cc=5901

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:04 pm

DIY stores? Translation?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:08 pm

JRod wrote:Is anyone saying give Sam more time? I'll try to listen to 606 later on. But I'm curious to see if the broadsheets tomorrow talk about saving Sam.

Nicky Butt backed Big Sam in the media yesterday. He might be the only breathing human on Tyneside to do so.

I'm past the point of caring whether Sam stays or goes. The problem is the players, not the manager. Newcastle's side is rubbish.

If Sam goes and Shearer comes, will the results be any better? Unlikely.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:13 pm

davet010 wrote:Oh, and Newcastle are not, and never will be, a big club. They are a one team in town outfit whose fans have delusions of grandeur, and who rely on lazy journalists to perpetuate this 'North-East is a hotbed of soccer' nonsense

Ain't that the truth. All Alan Oliver and Lee Ryder need to do in their Chronicle stories is use the terms "we" and "us" when describing the club, and their roles as ardent supporters and mouthpieces for the club PR department will be truly exposed.

I used to read the Chronicle daily for about 18 months. But the "we're a massive club; we will get this right; the sun will come up tomorrow" cheerio "journalism" of Oliver, Ryder, Farrington, et al made me sick after a while.

I still dig the Magpies for what they are: an underachieving outfit with delusional supporters that's not one of the premier clubs in England. A lot like the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Still, team sports are becoming more and more depressing for me, especially one you consider the lineup of teams that I avidly support: Edmonton Oilers, Buffalo Bills, Newcastle United, Syracuse University football.

Ah, sweet misery.

Take care,
PK

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 3:47 pm

Mets, 49ers, Knicks, Sheffield Wednesday. At least Bayern is doing decent this season although Hitzfeld is not coming back.

Naples39 · Post by **Naples39** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:05 pm

fsquid wrote:DIY stores? Translation?

From the link:

For the uninitiated, the term "Moneyball" refers to Michael Lewis' book by the same name. The book attempted to explain why the A's, on a shoestring budget, managed to successfully compete against baseball teams with far bigger payrolls. The answer, in part, lays in the organization's use of statistical analysis as a means of finding undervalued players, be they prospects or established veterans.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:18 pm

So success means big club?

There's no denying that they have the crowds and possibly the money to rival the top 4. They don't have the talent or manager to it right now.

This whole "big" newcastle thing is like saying the Chicago Cubs are a small market club because they lose every year. Losing doesn't mean you are small.

Outside of the top four, could Man City Everton, Tottenham, Ashton Villa, consistently sell out their 54,000 seat stadium, if they had one, all while the team was bottom table feeders.

davet010 · Post by **davet010** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:39 pm

JRod wrote:So success means big club?

There's no denying that they have the crowds and possibly the money to rival the top 4. They don't have the talent or manager to it right now.

This whole "big" newcastle thing is like saying the Chicago Cubs are a small market club because they lose every year. Losing doesn't mean you are small.

Outside of the top four, could Man City Everton, Tottenham, Ashton Villa, consistently sell out their 54,000 seat stadium, if they had one, all while the team was bottom table feeders.

As Simo mentioned earlier on, the Geordie 'faithful' are a lot less steadfast than publicity would lead you to believe - I went up there to watch City in the early 90's, and the total attendance was 17,000. All the other teams would keep roughly the same sort of crowds even if they dropped down a division.

If you saw the highlights of this week's game, you would also have noted that either Newcastle are now recruiting their support from the town's mute population, or City's 4,000 supporters were all equipped with foghorns.