NCAA Football 12

[HipE]

Whoa, whoa, whoa...no one has EVER accused me of being a 'hardcore' video game anything, not the least football games. I'm a purely casual gamer, who happens to think this iteration bests all previous versions by a large margin. It's not a hardcore thing.

FWIW I did have a lot more fun playing the game online, which I believe you said you do mostly. When you play a human opponent who actually switches to the DB to make the play himself, you see a lot less physics defying athletic ability out of the players. I've tried to replicate what I see my AI controlled teammates or opponents do in practice mode, and it just doesn't happen.

[toonarmy]

I wonder if EA will address some of the AI issues being discussed here in a patch? Based on what I've seen at OS the developers are genuinely interested in improving the game and fixing what's wrong. I think NCAA 12 is clearly a case of EA rushing a product out too soon simply to meet a deadline, while the developers knew it had issues but did not have time to fix them or adequately test. A great thing may be getting better over time via patches.

[Teal]

Nah, Hip, I play plenty offline against the CPU, as well, in RTG, Dynasty, all that. And I enjoy that alot, too. Sure, playing against a human is always more fun, but it has little to do with the game playing differently; rather, it's just that playing chess against a buddy will always be more fun than playing W.O.P.R.

[Danimal]

An entire community vs. 3 is a clique? Interesting. And of course you don't mind saying it...what repercussions would there even be?

Apparently none. It's nice to know you can attack a moderator on here with not having to worry about it though.

[Teal]

An entire community vs. 3 is a clique? Interesting. And of course you don't mind saying it...what repercussions would there even be?

Apparently none. It's nice to know you can attack a moderator on here with not having to worry about it though.

Damned straight. OS this is most definitely not...thank the lord.

[Aristo]

Spend a little time in practice mode. Look at replays and determine when you should be throwing the ball. The timing is off significantly from last year, and the window of opportunity is much smaller.

You will start to see patterns that indicate your guy is going to break free, and you can pass the ball so that it arrives at the right time. I actually love the passing game far more this year than last.

I don't care about the occasion eyes in the back of his play, as that is more the game balancing stats based on ratings. It's actually pretty rare. and if you play with generic or unnamed rosters, you will stop seeing so many LB's make great plays to swat and intercept balls, because they will no longer be tagged with coverage as a tendency. Of course, this also improves CB play, as they get their coverage tendency back instead of hard hitter.

I absolutely understand why some folks are done with the game. Passing is harder than last year, and gamers generally don't like to practice and learn. I can't blame them for that.

Because of the tendency bug, it's hard to figure out what people are actually playing. If you need named rosters, then this game will need to sit on the shelf until EA fixes it. It really does jack with the game. But if you want to just play and work on the passing game until they do, you can do that, too.

The game is such a significant improvement over last year in the area of gameplay on the field. It's a shame EA bashers have to stir up crap that others have to wade through.

[Aristo]

I wonder if EA will address some of the AI issues being discussed here in a patch? Based on what I've seen at OS the developers are genuinely interested in improving the game and fixing what's wrong. I think NCAA 12 is clearly a case of EA rushing a product out too soon simply to meet a deadline, while the developers knew it had issues but did not have time to fix them or adequately test. A great thing may be getting better over time via patches.

This is the bane of sports games. More than any genre, we know that games will get pushed out to meet a date despite glaring issues. We know devs will not be allowed to point out these issues, because marketing would have a cow.

But apparently this trend goes unnoticed by a certain segment of gamers, who repeatedly buy games early, only to lament the need for patches. If you don't buy a sports game early in its launch with the understanding that it is going to have issues that need to be fixed, you are doing it wrong. If your $60 is that precious, just wait. Let them patch. Let others give impressions of the patch. Buy it for less and be really happy.

[toonarmy]

I wonder if EA will address some of the AI issues being discussed here in a patch? Based on what I've seen at OS the developers are genuinely interested in improving the game and fixing what's wrong. I think NCAA 12 is clearly a case of EA rushing a product out too soon simply to meet a deadline, while the developers knew it had issues but did not have time to fix them or adequately test. A great thing may be getting better over time via patches.

This is the bane of sports games. More than any genre, we know that games will get pushed out to meet a date despite glaring issues. We know devs will not be allowed to point out these issues, because marketing would have a cow.

But apparently this trend goes unnoticed by a certain segment of gamers, who repeatedly buy games early, only to lament the need for patches. If you don't buy a sports game early in its launch with the understanding that it is going to have issues that need to be fixed, you are doing it wrong. If your $60 is that precious, just wait. Let them patch. Let others give impressions of the patch. Buy it for less and be really happy.

That is a good point and is how I generally buy non-racing/sports games. I get so many top-quality games for under $20 that way, plus they are patched by the time I get them. Since I do not get into the online aspect of shooting games and play campaign modes it does not bother me to get games like Batman, Resistance, and Uncharted later than other people because the quality of such games is great even if it is a half year or year after release. By the time I finish those games the next batch of good games is going down in price substantially and keeps the ball rolling for me.

A few reasons people get a sports game at release. 1) People who play online do not want to get "left behind" while early adopters learn the game. Also a lot of online leagues and such form shortly after release and if you wait those opportunities are lessened. 2) Stores like Amazon, K-Mart, etc. frequently give $20 off if you preorder. Most EA sports games do not go down to 39.99 or below until much later after release. 3) Hype. It's tough to lay off a new release while everyone else is hyping it and discussing it. That being said, NCAA was released a month and a half before the actual season, so by the time the actual season starts the game will be patched and good to go, thus making your point a good one for people who do not care about getting left behind with online play and not getting a preorder discount. I'm not really debating your excellent points, rather I'm just batting around some ideas.

I cannot think of many recent big sports releases that have not been patched so people really should go into buying a game nowadays assuming it will have bugs and need to be patched. It's not optimal and seems like companies are letting gamers be beta testers, but it's reality. Developers by and large care deeply about their games and have a lot of pride wrapped up in the hours they pour into making a game, so it's ashamed that the system is the way it is because it puts the developers in the line of fire.

[TCrouch]

I think I've mentioned (in one small sentence in the middle of a zillion other long-winded responses) that the fly route in 1 on 1 coverage is the worst one I've seen. I throw far too many interceptions on that in 1-on-1 situations, as well. So I can see the frustration there. You properly assess the coverage and what support the defensive back has, and make the throw--only to watch a cornerback pull the leaping-interception routine out of his ass.

I 100% agree there. However, for every 4 or 5 horrendous picks like that I see, I have the 1 gorgeous over-the-shoulder catch that appears just as it should. I think it may be a "cheating" method of programming at work to avoid players giving up a zillion deep balls in 1 on 1 situations per game, honestly. I could kind of understand why they do it, if that's the case, but it's still wonky.

I also fully agree that it may be the casual-vs-hardcore debate at work here. I think EA did a masterful job of making each game feel unique, because I can usually feel the wheels coming off and force myself into worse decisions. Sometimes I will put together a clutch drive and win a game, and other times I choke at the last possible moment due to a bad decision.

But this game is certainly not for everybody. I also think that there needs to be a tweaking of the difficulty levels. Varsity to AA is just way too pronounced this year. On Varsity (I played 2 games of it recently just to test) I was actually 29 of 31 for 680 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INT's in the span of those 2 games. That's just absurd, considering my RTG QB is about a 62% passer with something like 58 TDs and 40 picks in 2 1/2 seasons on AA. The current Varsity level needs to be JV, and a middle-of-the-road option needs to be implemented for more casual guys who don't want to:

1) Come to the line, look at the coverage and determine where the blitzer/pressure is coming from.
2) Use the line shift to account for the extra man, or see where the possible double-team block is.
3) Hot route a tight end to pick up the block if there's still a free rusher left.
4) Look at the defensive back alignment pre-snap--inside or outside? press coverage or playing off?

All before the snap...

Then, check to see how long the DB's stay in their backpedal post-snap. Watch and see which Linebackers blitz. Make a conscious decision to step up into the pocket. Check through your progressions (which has never mattered more). If the LB's are in short zones, check off to a deeper route. If the LB's are in man, check the routes crossing the field. If the DB's are backpedaling, change your focus back to the short game, because any deep pass is a 50/50 pick percentage if you're being stared down. You can throw the timing routes on outs and flag routes, but if you're 1 step late, it's a pick. Everything has to work perfectly, so you can only throw those routes if you have a 100% accurate assessment of the D pre-snap.

Take the dumpoff if nobody's open, or scramble if you have a decent QB if all else fails.

I swear, every single pass play is like a long checklist of football "do's". If you skip any of those, AA will probably be pretty frustrating, so I can totally understand guys just not liking the new playstyle. But what gets under my skin is (probably unintentionally) being blamed for somebody buying the game because of my 'raves'. I think I've explained as clearly as possible what I think is so great about the game. I don't think it's for everybody, and I'm thankful for that. Without guys like GTHobbes around to keep swatting at EA's nose, they'd dominate the world, Dr. Evil-style.

And with something like a football game, that one-game-for-all-gamers won't fly. I'm just thankful this is the game for "my" style...even if it alienates some of you. I feel for you there, but at least you have NCAA 11 (or Backbreaker) to fall back on. If Madden plays anything like this, I'm in seriously deep sh*t at home, because I follow Pro ball a hell of a lot more than College--and trying to throw that into the rotation with iRacing is going to get me divorced.

[TCrouch]

By the way, Teal, I just gave away my secrets to you. This is why my offensive line protection seems to be so much better than yours from team to team. Line shifts. Use 'em. Love 'em!

[GTHobbes]

And with something like a football game, that one-game-for-all-gamers won't fly. I'm just thankful this is the game for "my" style...even if it alienates some of you. I feel for you there, but at least you have NCAA 11 (or Backbreaker) to fall back on. If Madden plays anything like this, I'm in seriously deep sh*t at home, because I follow Pro ball a hell of a lot more than College--and trying to throw that into the rotation with iRacing is going to get me divorced.

Good post, Terry. I'm much more of a pro guy also...hopefully one of these years our tastes in football games will match, as I'd love to get a few online football (chess) games in with you.

[GameSeven]

By the way, Teal, I just gave away my secrets to you. This is why my offensive line protection seems to be so much better than yours from team to team. Line shifts. Use 'em. Love 'em!

Great tips, Terry. As football isn't my primary sport/passion, I need to remind myself of exactly the things you are talking about and the feeling I get when it gets put altogether is great. Of course, my RTG QB is far less efficient than yours as I am prone to forcing plays and then the wheels fall off.

That all said, it is impossible to call line shifts in RTG, correct? Or do you gain that ability when you gain audibles? I have hot routes where I would have expected it to be but no dice...

[Aristo]

I think the online leagues reason is a real one, but ultimately misguided. The last league I ever want to be in is one where guys are falling over them selves to get in before the game even drops. If a game is good, there will be leagues. And all leagues, no matter how good, have some turnover. I'd much rather wait and see if a game is worth dedicating time to league play before committing to anyone that I will play.

Sports games just have so much less room to alter their release date if there are issues. There are contracts with leagues and player unions, competition from other games releasing at the same time, and an understood window that means even if a game is great, sales are going to be way down if you release in midseason. So if Batman: AC has issues, they delay six months, and not get hurt in the same way.

But because these are just games, and I'm an adult with disposable cash, I live with the fact that game might need to be patched if I'm ready to jump in early. I'm going to get both Batman:AC and the new Deus Ex game on day one. I can't wait to get them. I'm fully aware that both games might blow. they may have some serious issues that need to be patched. But I'm buying in with that understanding, and I'm not going to act like a child deprived of fun if they fail to live up to my expectations. Both will be single player games I could wait six months to play if I value my $60 so much.

In the case of NCAA 12, there are plenty of issues worth talking about. Obviously the custom roster glitch is a near dealbreaker for many. The passing game is significantly harder, and might not be fun for those that don't want to practice and try to learn it. The custom playbooks seem to cause problem. Progression seems to be out of whack, making it far too easy for all teams to load up on talent, which lets some lower tier tams jump up in the rankings.

The issue isn't leveling these valid criticisms. It's when they are used to bash developers and the company as being incompetent, and acting like in the good old days games didn't have bugs. It was just that in the good old days of consoles, you lived with whatever bug was in the game. I knew when modern consoles got hard drives it was going to lead not to sloppier production so much as anal gamers looking to plug every glitch. They quit trying to play and enjoy the game, and instead feel the need to help fix the game.

So you get a game like NCAA 12, which is such a great improvement over a really fun version last year, and you still get Pissy Pants trying to warn us of the unholy specter of EA. Just like it was easy to find and post bugs and glitches of BB, they jump in and try to make a big deal out of whatever they can find. When BB failed becasue it was an ugly game that felt unnatural and weird. I didn't witness a single glitch when I played it. What I experienced was a horrible tunnel vision version of football I could not stand to play for more than 15 minutes at a time. It demo'd terribly, and it sunk the game.

[Aristo]

By the way, Teal, I just gave away my secrets to you. This is why my offensive line protection seems to be so much better than yours from team to team. Line shifts. Use 'em. Love 'em!

This is a really good point. I'm using the tools so much more this year than last.Not only line shifts, but I'm altering my gameplan option more, and making use of them more often. I feel like I'm in a pitched battle so much more this year.

Lat year I tended to leave them at neutral much more, as i was afraid to give up anything. But gambling is paying off. The extra holding calls I get are balanced by an improved run game and more protection for my QB. But there are times when I want to floor it and go aggressive, and others when I want to slow down.

[toonarmy]

But this game is certainly not for everybody. I also think that there needs to be a tweaking of the difficulty levels. Varsity to AA is just way too pronounced this year. On Varsity (I played 2 games of it recently just to test) I was actually 29 of 31 for 680 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INT's in the span of those 2 games. That's just absurd, considering my RTG QB is about a 62% passer with something like 58 TDs and 40 picks in 2 1/2 seasons on AA. The current Varsity level needs to be JV, and a middle-of-the-road option needs to be implemented for more casual guys who don't want to:

1) Come to the line, look at the coverage and determine where the blitzer/pressure is coming from.
2) Use the line shift to account for the extra man, or see where the possible double-team block is.
3) Hot route a tight end to pick up the block if there's still a free rusher left.
4) Look at the defensive back alignment pre-snap--inside or outside? press coverage or playing off?

All before the snap...

Then, check to see how long the DB's stay in their backpedal post-snap. Watch and see which Linebackers blitz. Make a conscious decision to step up into the pocket. Check through your progressions (which has never mattered more). If the LB's are in short zones, check off to a deeper route. If the LB's are in man, check the routes crossing the field. If the DB's are backpedaling, change your focus back to the short game, because any deep pass is a 50/50 pick percentage if you're being stared down. You can throw the timing routes on outs and flag routes, but if you're 1 step late, it's a pick. Everything has to work perfectly, so you can only throw those routes if you have a 100% accurate assessment of the D pre-snap.

Take the dumpoff if nobody's open, or scramble if you have a decent QB if all else fails.

Great explanation. I tried a varsity play now game in one of my early games after getting soundly thrashed on AA and it was a joke. I literally could not throw an int even if I tried because the DBs dropped everything that came their way on mistakes I made. Varsity is a training wheels level at best IMO. AA really does require a lot of work, and probably much more work than the average gamer wants to spend while playing a football video game. So your suggestion of a level in between Varsity and AA is spot-on. I would assume sliders can maybe achieve that level, but like HipE I'm not a slider guy and do not want to spend the time it takes to test all manner of slider configurations so I can understand the feeling of not seeing sliders as a solution.

My problem with AA now is that I've become too proficient offensively. Once you figure out how to move the ball at AA it's really not that difficult, especially with the improved running game. The only thing that keeps some of my games close is my ineptitude on defense at times. I tried a couple games on Heisman and quickly realized that level is simply not much fun since the AI isn't really any better, rather the CPU players are just more pumped up. Maybe a patch will do something to the AI to make AA more challenging offensively, but I have a feeling I will be selling the game now that I've milked so much out of it (5 RTG seasons, 3 full dynasty seasons and several partial ones, and a bunch of play now games). I've had a hell of a fun time with this game and enjoyed the ridiculous hours I put into it. With hockey, soccer, and F1 games coming out I'll be turning my attention to those genres, but I'm very impressed with the quality of NCAA 12 and look forward to NCAA 13 next year keeping me occupied while I wait for my more preferred sports games to come out.

[TCrouch]

That all said, it is impossible to call line shifts in RTG, correct? Or do you gain that ability when you gain audibles? I have hot routes where I would have expected it to be but no dice...

I'm 99% sure they always work. You can even test them in practice. Pull the trigger and you can hear him barking out signals, but you never get a menu up because it's disabled until you get audibles. But if you line shift left, for example, you'll see your line jump left after the snap. They work, you just have no interface. I checked it out before I had audibles (I have no RTG QB without them right now to test and tell you with 100% certainty), but I never had an issue with the line protecting based on my line shift in RTG.

[GameSeven]

I'm 99% sure they always work. You can even test them in practice. Pull the trigger and you can hear him barking out signals, but you never get a menu up because it's disabled until you get audibles. But if you line shift left, for example, you'll see your line jump left after the snap. They work, you just have no interface. I checked it out before I had audibles (I have no RTG QB without them right now to test and tell you with 100% certainty), but I never had an issue with the line protecting based on my line shift in RTG.

Heh, I usually would be gaming with headphones, but have been too lazy to pull them out these days and am, instead, playing with the volume down after the kiddies hit the beds. I'll need to note the audio cue next time. Thanks for the response

[HipE]

Thanks for the opinions and tips everyone, this discussion has been very informative and is exactly what I like about this forum. I still have a week before I need to mail the game, so I'll give it more time and see if it clicks at some point. I especially appreciate TCrouch's pre and post snap checklist. The problem is, I suck at doing most of those things. It seems like every time I shift my protection before the snap, the pressure comes from the opposite side and I'm sacked in a split second. What we really need is "watch now" mode where we can all watch and listen to TCrouch play while he gives a football 101 clinic. I'll just keep putting in time for now, maybe in play now mode so that the games don't count and I'm not so focused on exploiting what I know works and just trying to win (zero fun and what I hate about competitive online EA football). Since so many of you are saying that the passing is in fact rewarding and realistic with practice, I'll take your word for it and try to learn more about actual football rather than how I've played EA football in the past.

It is definitely not a "snap and react" game like past versions of Madden and NCAA, where I've been able to just play mindless football and quickly pass to the open guy after the snap. I'm just not sure I'm up to the task of learning this game, especially not knowing if EA will stick with this level of AI in Madden this year and in future versions of NCAA and Madden (I'm still feeling burned by the time I put into working on learning the vision cone).

[Teal]

By the way, Teal, I just gave away my secrets to you.:

It won't help me...

[toonarmy]

(I'm still feeling burned by the time I put into working on learning the vision cone).

Read and lead trumped them all, lol:

[dbdynsty25]

So sad that I watched that entire video and wished someone had actually implemented that in one of the newer games.

[XXXIV]

By the way, Teal, I just gave away my secrets to you.:

It won't help me...

No s***. This info will only confuse me more when I play him.

[XXXIV]

So sad that I watched that entire video and wished someone had actually implemented that in one of the newer games.

I am NOT saying that its why this feature was never implemented in an NFL game, but that exclusivity deal was definately not a good thing for football games.

Yes. I am over it

I havent played in a couple of days but I am one who is still enjoying NCAA. Had a great loss in East Lansing on saturday.

[TCrouch]

It is definitely not a "snap and react" game like past versions of Madden and NCAA, where I've been able to just play mindless football and quickly pass to the open guy after the snap. I'm just not sure I'm up to the task of learning this game, especially not knowing if EA will stick with this level of AI in Madden this year and in future versions of NCAA and Madden (I'm still feeling burned by the time I put into working on learning the vision cone).

I do what I can, Hip . I never want to get on a soapbox and start trying to tell somebody how to play the game DURING a game, because I'm far from perfect and Dan, XXXIV, and even more recently Teal *GASP!!!* have made me pay for mistakes over the years. But I'd be more than happy to play a game with you and explain what I see or what I'm looking for. Of course, it gives away my reads pre-snap so it kind of makes the actual game going on a moot point...but I've literally done that "football 101 clinic" with people over the years with some guys and had some really fun games come out of it as they learn more and more.

Problem is, I screw up half the time with a misread or panic when I get pressure, so it's like watching your Algebra Professor screw up an equation...but it's all in fun

FWIW, tonight I played 3 games after not playing all weekend against the AI. First game against USC, I lost and barely completed half my passes. Second game against Oregon State I was almost 60 percent completions and won, but with 2 INT's. I sat back after that game and had to really examine what I was doing, and I was NOT going through my own checklist. The next game against 3-1 Arizona on the road I did, knowing that I should be able to manhandle that B- defense compared to USC and Or State.

27-32, 355 yards passing, 7 TD's and 0 INT's.

You're 100% spot-on though, when you say it's no longer a 'hike and react' game. I get back in that trend from game to game and fall victim to the same stuff. Even the tiniest details like throwing those aforementioned hitch routes against zone coverage vs. man coverage. Properly diagnosing that is the difference between a completion and a pick. I misdiagnosed a zone in that Oregon State game and threw the hitch even though the defender was 4 yards off him. Problem is, in a zone he's doing nothing but staring me down, so the minute I started to uncork the pass, he was already charging it. It was the most entertainingly frustrating pick I've ever thrown. On the flip side, I intentionally started working the pump fake and watched some of the most realistic lanes open up I've ever seen. Almost 100 games in and I'm still finding new strategies that I can use, but only in specific situations. I pump faked a corner out of his jock in that Arizona game with a receiver doing a double move. My wideout caught the ball with nobody around him for EIGHT YARDS because I had faked the CB on the first move (he was in zone, watching me the whole time...that's what got me thinking to try the pump fake after the pick the game before).

I think that's the key--if you're in hike-and-react mode, I totally understand why you'd be frustrated. But if you actually dive into it and really try to do some of that extra crap that seems so tedious, a whole new world *MIGHT* open up. Or you might still hate it and send it back...

[Wilk5280]

Terry,
I want a game!!!