MACTEPsporta wrote:In all honesty, there is major difference there, Rob. Lipstick thing is such a stretch that only Palin's remark about hockey moms and bulldogs made it possible for general public to make the analogy[\b]. Color, being the defining quality of Obama, for many people, is much easier to align and needs no additional quotes to make the connection.
I disagree with this. Lipstick on a pig *is* a cliche. Palin's remark did not make the parallel possible, IMHO. In the absence of her comment, it could still easily be interpreted as a shot on Palin as she is the only woman on any ticket. That said, I think Palin's comment made it more likely that BO would riposte with the comment. I think he (and his team) thought it a clever return (it was). Unfortunately the backlash was called out in a manner counter-productive to BO's campaign.
Take for example, Rob's "spade a spade" comment.
This would be inflammatory in the absence of any original comment from BO. However, if BO had hypothetically said he had "integrity in spades", Rob's comment is no less inflammatory but more likely to be uttered as it gains context as a retort to the original comment.
Now the public doesn't know the governmental structure of Iran. But then again, the general public isn't a heartbeat away from being the Commander-in-Chief.
There was another news site (can't remember from this morning) that talked that Charlie Gibson incorrectly characterized the Bush Doctrine war policy as pre-emptive when it should have been preventative. Like Rob said, this country has had a policy of pre-emptive war. Bush re-characterized it as the need to go to war to prevent a wider regional war.
[url=http://sensiblecoasters.wordpress.com/][b]Sensible Coasters - A critique of sports games, reviews, gaming sites and news. Questionably Proofread![/b][/url]
MACTEPsporta wrote:
It maybe due to my incompetence, but I feel rather sure that if that situation does arise, postive decision will be made. 22nd Ammendment is in tact as VP is not "elected" to be president, he is elected to be vice-president. 12th Ammendment does shake things up a little but I don't think that would be an overriding factor. The way I see it, there is already a precedent of someone who is not themselves eligible to run for president, who may one day become one. That's anyone running for Congress, since they can become Speaker and so on... Of course, I can be totally off base here and I am happy to acknowledge that.
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If you didn't already, read the article to which I linked. It's a pretty fair analysis. Plus it's unlikely that a Presidential candidate would want to make a pick which may be unconstitutional. It's just not worth the hassle.
XBL Gamertag: RobVarak
"Ok I'm an elitist, but I have a healthy respect for people who don't measure up." --Aaron Sorkin
JackDog wrote:
You would be fired and called a crackpot. If somebody did that it would be an extreme example of pure stupidity. That being said we're talking about America here. It was founded on religion. God in politics aren't going away. The same can be said about most countries in the Middle East. I don't think I'll be seeing a non Muslim in a leadership position anytime soon. It is what it is.
I am a Christian. It doesn't bother me in the least bit to hear that the people that want to lead this country believe in prayer. Matter of fact I like it.
Of course you like it. You share the beliefs. But would you like it as much if our proposed leaders were touting Buddhism or Hindu? I don't think so.
Yes, we were founded on religion, but that was before we turned into the melting pot we are today. Just because this is still practiced doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I know it's not going away too soon, but like I said earlier, this is a govt for ALL people...not just those that believe in Jesus.
RobVarak wrote: If you didn't already, read the article to which I linked. It's a pretty fair analysis. Plus it's unlikely that a Presidential candidate would want to make a pick which may be unconstitutional. It's just not worth the hassle.
In the election where a black man and a woman are running, one, or arguably, both candidates were born outside US, and pigs wear lipstick, constitutionality is the last thing on anyone's mind.
"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."
-- John K. Galbraith
JackDog wrote:
And please tell me where in this statement did she mention Iraq?
“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”
That's the thing...she said, in essence, "pray that our leaders will do the right thing" (i.e., what God wants). Which is much different from, "the war in Iraq is what God wants".
I don't expect the people who are using the quote to attack Palin to understand the difference, though. People are intentionally stupid when it comes to things they disagree with, but they can grasp all kind of subtlety and nuance when it comes to people on their own side. I still get a chuckle out of that AP story that puzzled over how Bush could say "Hussein killed all the Mandelas" when Nelson Mandela was still alive.
JackDog wrote:
And please tell me where in this statement did she mention Iraq?
“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”
That's the thing...she said, in essence, "pray that our leaders will do the right thing" (i.e., what God wants). Which is much different from, "the war in Iraq is what God wants".
I don't expect the people who are using the quote to attack Palin to understand the difference, though. People are intentionally stupid when it comes to things they disagree with, but they can grasp all kind of subtlety and nuance when it comes to people on their own side. I still get a chuckle out of that AP story that puzzled over how Bush could say "Hussein killed all the Mandelas" when Nelson Mandela was still alive.
It's the final line the is under scrutiny, "...that that plan is God's plan."
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JackDog wrote:
And please tell me where in this statement did she mention Iraq?
“Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God,” she exhorted the congregants. “That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”
That's the thing...she said, in essence, "pray that our leaders will do the right thing" (i.e., what God wants). Which is much different from, "the war in Iraq is what God wants".
Yep, she could've said: "God give our leaders wisdom to do what's right and just when they are sending these soldiers on this task". Same thing. I don't thik that's the issue. She gives off a fanatical vibe, and it's very possible that she truly believes that this is a Godly mission of some sort. That's a bit scary. If anything I have more problems with the latter portion of this quote. She thinks that sending soldiers to Iraq is God's plan? That would mean that the invasion of Iraq was God's plan too. That's pretty presumptuous.
"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."
-- John K. Galbraith
JackB1 wrote:
Of course you like it. You share the beliefs. But would you like it as much if our proposed leaders were touting Buddhism or Hindu? I don't think so.
Yes, we were founded on religion, but that was before we turned into the melting pot we are today. Just because this is still practiced doesn't mean I have to agree with it. I know it's not going away too soon, but like I said earlier, this is a govt for ALL people...not just those that believe in Jesus.
That's a pretty shallow way of thinking Jack. Thanks for painting me as a intolerant Christian. I guess because I am black I like chicken and watermelon too huh. We have lived in countries where Islam was the main religion and practiced by it's leaders. We were cool with it.
As far as your comment and history lesson about our country,where did I say America wasn't for all people? Where did I say it was just for Christians? More assumptions and stereotypes huh Jack? I love America because it's tolerant of all religions unlike some of the countries I've served in that kill their own people for coverting. I could go on but why? I have learned so much about you in this thread it's not funny.
By the way. What about Obama? You never said a word about your Messiah and his pandering for the religious vote. It's a two way street Jack. I see the traffic on both sides. You don't.
FatPitcher wrote:
I don't expect the people who are using the quote to attack Palin to understand the difference, though. People are intentionally stupid when it comes to things they disagree with, but they can grasp all kind of subtlety and nuance when it comes to people on their own side.
No doubt. I've read posts from so called liberals that reek of Ageism,Sexism and Religious intolerance. I thought the "Right" was supposed to be the hateful side.
JackDog wrote:
And please tell me where in this statement did she mention Iraq?
That's the thing...she said, in essence, "pray that our leaders will do the right thing" (i.e., what God wants). Which is much different from, "the war in Iraq is what God wants".
I don't expect the people who are using the quote to attack Palin to understand the difference, though. People are intentionally stupid when it comes to things they disagree with, but they can grasp all kind of subtlety and nuance when it comes to people on their own side. I still get a chuckle out of that AP story that puzzled over how Bush could say "Hussein killed all the Mandelas" when Nelson Mandela was still alive.
It's the final line the is under scrutiny, "...that that plan is God's plan."
“That’s what we have to make sure that we’re praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.”
OK, let's dissect it.
She says pray for two things:
1. Pray that "there is a plan". In other words, ask God to guide Bush and the military leaders. This actually sounds quite anti-Iraq War to me, as it implied that the current situation didn't reflect a clear or effective plan. If a good plan was obviously in place already, why ask God to make sure there was one?
2. Pray that whatever plan was in effect was in accordance with God's wishes. Asking for something to be in line with what God wants and claiming that it already is are quite different. In fact, the wording strongly suggests that Palin has doubts as to whether God wants troops in Iraq, rather than the reverse. A natural position when your son is going into harm's way -- you hope that there's a good reason for it, but the natural tendency is to be against whatever is putting him in danger.
MACTEPsporta wrote:
Yep, she could've said: "God give our leaders wisdom to do what's right and just when they are sending these soldiers on this task". Same thing. I don't thik that's the issue. She gives off a fanatical vibe, and it's very possible that she truly believes that this is a Godly mission of some sort. That's a bit scary. If anything I have more problems with the latter portion of this quote. She thinks that sending soldiers to Iraq is God's plan? That would mean that the invasion of Iraq was God's plan too. That's pretty presumptuous.
Where did she mention Iraq? America has troops all over the world. If she said Iraq I would agree with you,but she didn't.
MACTEPsporta wrote:
Yep, she could've said: "God give our leaders wisdom to do what's right and just when they are sending these soldiers on this task". Same thing. I don't thik that's the issue. She gives off a fanatical vibe, and it's very possible that she truly believes that this is a Godly mission of some sort. That's a bit scary. If anything I have more problems with the latter portion of this quote. She thinks that sending soldiers to Iraq is God's plan? That would mean that the invasion of Iraq was God's plan too. That's pretty presumptuous.
Where did she mention Iraq? America has troops all over the world. If she said Iraq I would agree with you,but she didn't.
MACTEPsporta wrote:
Yep, she could've said: "God give our leaders wisdom to do what's right and just when they are sending these soldiers on this task". Same thing. I don't thik that's the issue. She gives off a fanatical vibe, and it's very possible that she truly believes that this is a Godly mission of some sort. That's a bit scary. If anything I have more problems with the latter portion of this quote. She thinks that sending soldiers to Iraq is God's plan? That would mean that the invasion of Iraq was God's plan too. That's pretty presumptuous.
Where did she mention Iraq? America has troops all over the world. If she said Iraq I would agree with you,but she didn't.
She is making the parting speech to Iraq-bound troops. Please, don't tell me you need the word Iraq to be there to understand what she meant.
"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."
-- John K. Galbraith
XXXIV wrote:
Nice catch...Maybe Afghanistan isnt a real place?
I asked Jack that first. I am still waiting for an answer. I should have bashed Palin in the question. He would have jumped on that like a bum on a bologne sandwich.
MACTEPsporta wrote:
Yep, she could've said: "God give our leaders wisdom to do what's right and just when they are sending these soldiers on this task". Same thing. I don't thik that's the issue. She gives off a fanatical vibe, and it's very possible that she truly believes that this is a Godly mission of some sort. That's a bit scary. If anything I have more problems with the latter portion of this quote. She thinks that sending soldiers to Iraq is God's plan? That would mean that the invasion of Iraq was God's plan too. That's pretty presumptuous.
Where did she mention Iraq? America has troops all over the world. If she said Iraq I would agree with you,but she didn't.
She is making the parting speech to Iraq-bound troops. Please, don't tell me you need the word Iraq to be there to understand what she meant.
MACTEPsporta wrote:
She is making the parting speech to Iraq-bound troops. Please, don't tell me you need the word Iraq to be there to understand what she meant.
Yeah I do. You know what they say about assumptions. She's in the running for VP. She made that speech for all the troops. That's my assumption.
MACTEPsporta wrote:
She is making the parting speech to Iraq-bound troops. Please, don't tell me you need the word Iraq to be there to understand what she meant.
Yeah I do. You know what they say about assumptions. She's in the running for VP. She made that speech for all the troops. That's my assumption.
Hmm... Okay. Well Obama never specified that it's the people in small towns in United States of America, that cling to guns and religion. Rev. Wright meant South America when he said: "God damn America!", and Clinton was under sniper fire during her paintball match in Tuzla, North Carolina.
In life, there are certain things you have to assume, or you will turn into a lawyer. As for Palin, she was making the speech as Governor not VP, this speech is from June, and she was addressing students at a church, asking them to pray for her son and all other soldiers who are being deployed to Iraq.
"Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's just the opposite."
-- John K. Galbraith
MACTEPsporta wrote:
Hmm... Okay. Well Obama never specified that it's the people in small towns in United States of America, that cling to guns and religion. Rev. Wright meant South America when he said: "God damn America!", and Clinton was under sniper fire during her paintball match at Tuzla, North Carolina.
In life, there are certain things you have to assume, or you will turn into a lawyer. As for Palin, she was making the speech as Governor not VP, this speech is from June, and she was addressing students at a church, asking them to pray for her son and all other soldiers who are being deployed to Iraq.
I ignored you last sentence. It makes me look wrong. honestly i thought she made that speech this week.
Last edited by Jackdog on Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MACTEPsporta wrote:
She is making the parting speech to Iraq-bound troops. Please, don't tell me you need the word Iraq to be there to understand what she meant.
Yeah I do. You know what they say about assumptions. She's in the running for VP. She made that speech for all the troops. That's my assumption.
Hmm... Okay. Well Obama never specified that it's the people in small towns in United States of America, that cling to guns and religion. Rev. Wright meant South America when he said: "God damn America!", and Clinton was under sniper fire during her paintball match in Tuzla, North Carolina.
In life, there are certain things you have to assume, or you will turn into a lawyer. As for Palin, she was making the speech as Governor not VP, this speech is from June, and she was addressing students at a church, asking them to pray for her son and all other soldiers who are being deployed to Iraq.
Talk about total garbage...
Meanwhile I think McCain and Obama have a very high stakes election coming up.
Save the bullshit...you can put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig.
