OT The NCAA Football Season Discussion

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:57 pm

pk500 wrote:
hellbent wrote:A playoff system is destined to be flawed, as is ANY National Championship System that could possibly be designed. The fact remains that it's still a big step forward compared to letting a computer/biased press corps/school pr depts etc anoint a #1 and #2 and having them duke it out.
Don't forget to add a d*uchebag of a coach into that process, too. Urban Meyer shamelessly plugged Florida and disparaged Michigan ever since Michigan lost to Ohio State.

Pimping your program is cool. Doing it at the expense of another is not.

Take care,
PK

Well said PK.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:38 pm

It means a lot of money to his school and probably to himself. Probably has incentives for getting his school to the national title game.

Question is, why aren't more coaches lobbying to get their teams in the best games possible?

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:59 pm

Brando70 wrote:
Until they change this royally screwed up process, college football will remain an exciting series of exhibition games that give the students and alumni a reason to start drinking at 7:00 a.m. and something to argue about on Mondays.

Which will never happen. Its not like college football is hurting.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:37 pm

pk500 wrote:
hellbent wrote:A playoff system is destined to be flawed, as is ANY National Championship System that could possibly be designed. The fact remains that it's still a big step forward compared to letting a computer/biased press corps/school pr depts etc anoint a #1 and #2 and having them duke it out.
Don't forget to add a d*uchebag of a coach into that process, too. Urban Meyer shamelessly plugged Florida and disparaged Michigan ever since Michigan lost to Ohio State.

Pimping your program is cool. Doing it at the expense of another is not.

Take care,
PK

I'd much rather have a guy pimp his own program, than not vote in the coaches poll at all (which you are required to do)...thinking that it somehow makes him unbiased. What a load of classless sh*t that was from Tressel.

Brando70 · Post by **Brando70** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:45 pm

Urban's been on the other side, too, and let's face it, the squeaky wheel does tend to get noticed in college football.

BDunn is right, nothing's going to change as long as the system keeps raking in the dough. That's a shame, because with a playoff system, I think college football could be the most exciting sport on TV, instead of a great game married to a terrible championship system.

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:45 pm

My argument against a rematch, prior to the Nov 18th game, is that I wanted The Game to mean something. It was the most electric atmosphere I have ever experienced at a sporting event. A game like that HAS to mean something to both the winner and the loser. A rematch makes that game completely meaningless; a footnote in the history of the rivalry. The idea that the winner of that game only earned the right to play the same team again I think is bullshit to the nth degree.

C'mon Bill. That's just flat out silly. The game DOES mean something. And a rematch would mean something MORE. You talk about the environment at the game, why the hell wouldn't we want that all over again for a national title? Instead we get Florida who's going to get there a** kicked up and down the field. Why would you as an OSU fan want to blast Florida, have Michigan beat up on USC (should it happen), and spend the entire off season listening to how your national title needs an asterisk because they didn't play the second best team in the country to earn it. (To clarify i'm not saying it would be right, more that the debate will most certainly be in the media)

Again why is it that we can watch Duke and UNC play basketball twice a year, every year, but if they match up in the championship game for a third time the world tunes in to watch because of the talent on the court regardless of the prior results.

So had Michigan lost to Auburn instead of OSU would they be MORE deserving of the spot? That's ludicrous. Mid-season games are not your "shot" at a title. They are games played to determine a ranking that is SUPPOSED to eventually pit the top two teams in the country together, regardless of conference.

Florida vs. USC and Mich. vs. OSU would have meant one high profile game as no one outside of Gainesville and SoCal tune in to the third place game. As it is now you have the controversy behind two games and that means more money, which is all the bowl system is about anyway.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 2:51 pm

RallyMonkey wrote:Why would you as an OSU fan want to blast Florida, have Michigan beat up on USC (should it happen), and spend the entire off season listening to how your national title needs an asterisk because they didn't play the second best team in the country to earn it.

But they already beat the 2nd best team. That's how they earned their way into the Championship game. Why would it be "more" right to have to beat a team twice?

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:07 pm

hellbent wrote:A playoff system is destined to be flawed, as is ANY National Championship System that could possibly be designed. The fact remains that it's still a big step forward compared to letting a computer/biased press corps/school pr depts etc anoint a #1 and #2 and having them duke it out. Yeah, depending on the system used to choose what teams participate, there will be some bubble teams left out. Tough s***. This happens every year in the NCAA basketball tourney, and people live with it.

At least you'd be giving 12 (or however many) teams a chance to win the title instead of just picking 2. There's usually a little hissy fit by one team or another that misses the NCAA basketball tourney every year on selection sunday, then they are quickly forgotten about when the tourney starts. Yeah, you'd have to pick a lot less teams to participate, but the outcome of a playoff would be a lot more satisfying than the BCS system currently in place.

I would argue that it is FAR easier to pick the two best teams than to try to pick 16 teams where you have to differentiate between big *clumps* of teams that have the same exact record. Which means more strength of schedule and victory margin nonsense to pick winners, instead of what happens on the field with Ws and Ls. A playoff system would be more entertaining, no doubt, but no more effective than the current silliness. It *can't* be done. There are too many teams, and no standards of scheduling.

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:09 pm

But they already beat the 2nd best team. That's how they earned their way into the Championship game. Why would it be "more" right to have to beat a team twice?

I think we're at a cross-roads in the argument here. It shouldn't matter WHO the team is. They shoud have to beat the second best team in the country for the national championship. The game in November is a scheduled conference game. It's not Michigan's (or OSU's) fault they play in the Big 10 (11). Once again, why is Duke vs. UNC a third time okay but this is not.

I can value the country wanting to see a new matchup, but the reality is if this is a championship game then it should play out that way in my mind.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:09 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
pk500 wrote:
hellbent wrote:A playoff system is destined to be flawed, as is ANY National Championship System that could possibly be designed. The fact remains that it's still a big step forward compared to letting a computer/biased press corps/school pr depts etc anoint a #1 and #2 and having them duke it out.
Don't forget to add a d*uchebag of a coach into that process, too. Urban Meyer shamelessly plugged Florida and disparaged Michigan ever since Michigan lost to Ohio State.

Pimping your program is cool. Doing it at the expense of another is not.

Take care,
PK
I'd much rather have a guy pimp his own program, than not vote in the coaches poll at all (which you are required to do)...thinking that it somehow makes him unbiased. What a load of classless sh*t that was from Tressel.

Sounds like it will be a classy match up.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:13 pm

RallyMonkey wrote:
But they already beat the 2nd best team. That's how they earned their way into the Championship game. Why would it be "more" right to have to beat a team twice?
I think we're at a cross-roads in the argument here. It shouldn't matter WHO the team is. They shoud have to beat the second best team in the country for the national championship. The game in November is a scheduled conference game. It's not Michigan's (or OSU's) fault they play in the Big 10 (11). Once again, why is Duke vs. UNC a third time okay but this is not.

I can value the country wanting to see a new matchup, but the reality is if this is a championship game then it should play out that way in my mind.

The Big 10 championship is tainted every year because you dont get a shot at everybody via a championship game.

What was the score of the OSU vs Wisconsing game ?

hellbent · Post by **hellbent** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:22 pm

Kazuya wrote:
hellbent wrote:At least you'd be giving 12 (or however many) teams a chance to win the title instead of just picking 2. There's usually a little hissy fit by one team or another that misses the NCAA basketball tourney every year on selection sunday, then they are quickly forgotten about when the tourney starts. Yeah, you'd have to pick a lot less teams to participate, but the outcome of a playoff would be a lot more satisfying than the BCS system currently in place.
I would argue that it is FAR easier to pick the two best teams than to try to pick 16 teams where you have to differentiate between big *clumps* of teams that have the same exact record. Which means more strength of schedule and victory margin nonsense to pick winners, instead of what happens on the field with Ws and Ls. A playoff system would be more entertaining, no doubt, but no more effective than the current silliness. It *can't* be done. There are too many teams, and no standards of scheduling.

Good points Kaz. Apples and oranges, really, as to what system could possibly be the most *fair* and acceptable, at least in terms of fan perception. My push for a playoff is ultimately for giving more opportunity to the teams to decide a champion on the field, rather than in the press. No doubt, your post pretty well summed up why the selection process for the playoffs would still be a logistical (and statistical) nightmare.

My vitriol about the playoff question is reserved for the NCAA and the way they've danced around the issues, and have hardly offered up a *logical* explanation. The reasons they have given seem to change every season. They've handled the establishment and enforcement of rules the same way throughout time - just depends on how much sway different programs have with the NCAA at different points in time.

As others have said, though, they ain't hurtin', so long overdue changes aren't bound to be on the horizon.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Tue Dec 05, 2006 3:40 pm

hellbent wrote:
Kazuya wrote:
hellbent wrote:At least you'd be giving 12 (or however many) teams a chance to win the title instead of just picking 2. There's usually a little hissy fit by one team or another that misses the NCAA basketball tourney every year on selection sunday, then they are quickly forgotten about when the tourney starts. Yeah, you'd have to pick a lot less teams to participate, but the outcome of a playoff would be a lot more satisfying than the BCS system currently in place.
I would argue that it is FAR easier to pick the two best teams than to try to pick 16 teams where you have to differentiate between big *clumps* of teams that have the same exact record. Which means more strength of schedule and victory margin nonsense to pick winners, instead of what happens on the field with Ws and Ls. A playoff system would be more entertaining, no doubt, but no more effective than the current silliness. It *can't* be done. There are too many teams, and no standards of scheduling.
Good points Kaz. Apples and oranges, really, as to what system could possibly be the most *fair* and acceptable, at least in terms of fan perception. My push for a playoff is ultimately for giving more opportunity to the teams to decide a champion on the field, rather than in the press. No doubt, your post pretty well summed up why the selection process for the playoffs would still be a logistical (and statistical) nightmare.

My vitriol about the playoff question is reserved for the NCAA and the way they've danced around the issues, and have hardly offered up a *logical* explanation. The reasons they have given seem to change every season. They've handled the establishment and enforcement of rules the same way throughout time - just depends on how much sway different programs have with the NCAA at different points in time.

As others have said, though, they ain't hurtin', so long overdue changes aren't bound to be on the horizon.

I agree... and the playoffs would be better, even if just for the fact that while not truly any less subjective, we'd get meaningful games instead of 1 meaningful bowl and a bunch of other bowls that may as well be 30 some-odd Weed-Eater Bowls.

What they NEED to do is chunk all the teams that have no shot at being national champions into a sub-division of I-A or OUT of I-A altogether. Let me clarify "no shot". If the Oakland Raiders, shitty as they are, go 19-0 next year then they will be Super Bowl Champs. The commish isn't going to step in and say, "No, ya know, their schedule was kinda weak, they only won this game here by 3... the Colts are really the champs!" They control their fates. Boise St. on the other hand, won all their games, doing all they can do, and still have no opportunity to be champs. Now this is not some impassioned plea saying that Boise St. is the best, or even among the best teams. But WTF, I'm pretty sure they are a full fledged I-A team just like Ohio State and Florida. If you can't win all your games and at least PLAY for all the marbles, then either you are not a full-fledged member of the league or it's one screwy system.

So kick Boise St and the others with no shot OUT. Organize the ones that are left into meaningful divisions. Make them play consistent, round robin schedules and "playoff battle" the winners of the divisions. This isn't perfect either, as it penalizes teams in strong divisions, but it more or less works for the pro leagues. It's better than the current CRAP.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:10 am

Awww yeah...Randy Shannon takes over the Canes...as I predicted and hoped.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:26 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:Awww yeah...Randy Shannon takes over the Canes...as I predicted and hoped.

Scott, I hope you're right about RS being the right man for the job. Those players need a real kick in the butt.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:57 am

grtwhtsk wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:Awww yeah...Randy Shannon takes over the Canes...as I predicted and hoped.
Scott, I hope you're right about RS being the right man for the job. Those players need a real kick in the butt.

One thing is pretty clear and funny. Read these two quotes and tell me who the starting QB will be next year:

Backup QB, Kirby Freeman:

"I couldn't be more overwhelmed," quarterback Kirby Freeman said. "I was pulling for Randy. This is what we need."

Starting QB, Kyle Wright:

"It's an interesting hire," Miami quarterback Kyle Wright told ESPN's Joe Schad. "It's ironic that after a nationwide search, it ends up being coach Shannon. We'll have to see how it turns out. He's highly respected here. We know how he operates and conducts himself, so we won't have to get used to a new style of play. What I want to see now is who we get as offensive coordinator."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I know before last season, there was a split among the coaches as to who should start, Wright or Freeman, so obviously, it seems as though Kirby has a fan in Shannon. Guess we'll see in a few weeks.

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:16 pm

Wow. I've never seen such pathetic play by an offensive line. Not too proud to be a UM alum today. Kudos to USC for a dominating performance.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:20 pm

F308GTB wrote:Wow. I've never seen such pathetic play by an offensive line. Not too proud to be a UM alum today. Kudos to USC for a dominating performance.

Makes you wonder what the hell USC was doing in the UCLA game...

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:30 pm

Definitely kick Boise St out....they don't belong to play on the same field as OU...

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:08 am

Man, I don't know if Michigan's offensive line was that bad or USC's defensive front seven is just so much quicker than anything Michigan has seen all season, including Ohio State. Probably a combination of both, but that was f*cking embarrassing.

Michigan's defensive Achilles' heel -- its secondary -- was brutal today, and did Lamar Woodley even suit up? The dude had a sack, but he was invisible for most of the game.

This game pissed me off for two reasons. One, Michigan lost. Two, it proves that Division I football needs a playoff so, so, so badly.

Could USC have challenged Ohio State today? I think so. But we'll never know.

Take care,
PK

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:53 am

I've only watched one bowl game so far and I am glad it's the Fiesta Bowl. Boise State is really fun to watch and the game thus far has been great.

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:53 am

pigpen81 wrote:Definitely kick Boise St out....they don't belong to play on the same field as OU...

What a freaking game. Ranks up there with last year's Rose Bowl. Boise State showed a ton of guts in this one. Screw the BCS and allow the mid-majors into the championship game.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:54 am

UNFREAKINGBEL......

WHat a Game! I just became a big Boise State Fan! Great Coaching and what a team with great heart.

Nice to see OU get it on their face after celebrating early!

F308GTB · Post by **F308GTB** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:03 am

Inuyasha wrote:UNFREAKINGBEL......

WHat a Game! I just became a big Boise State Fan! Great Coaching and what a team with great heart.

Nice to see OU get it on their face after celebrating early!

And a marriage proposal in the postgame show? Never seen anything like this. Yep, can't help but like this team. Seems like a great bunch of kids.

ddtrane · Post by **ddtrane** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:22 am

I laughed, I cried, I screamed. This is what makes college fb so great. 2 teams with totally different styles. Boise went into the bag of tricks at the end and didn't even chance a 2nd OT. Amazing, pass the tylenol.