Vancouver 2010 Winter Olympics

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:05 pm

Forums glitch.

Go USA!

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:35 pm

Jimmydeicide wrote:If Canada played with the desperation that Latvia had we wouldnt be talking about this. lets see if im right today because the russians will have it for sure.

Desperation at its best dude. Not sure about the Russians.

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:36 pm

How much of this "sudden jelling" was due to the fact a trip to the medal round was at stake instead of just more familiarity with linemates and defensive partners?

NHL teams play at a different level in the playoffs, too, and it has nothing to do with jelling.

I honestly can't believe i even have to debate this point. It's pretty simple logic. The more time spent with each other, the more practice with each other, and the more games played with each other, the better a team will be. Not rocket science, just fact.

What's funny is the reports out of the Canada vs. Russia game last night are that the Russians are pointing towards a lack of chemistry as they tried to jam half KHL'ers and half NHL'ers on the ice and make it work.

But what do i know.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:47 pm

Russia just couldn't answer to Canada's physical play. The D was on its heel all night long cause the red and white kept dumping it deep preventing people like Gonchar to QB any play. Nabokov had an off night, the same with Brodeur vs team USA the other night, but this time unfortunately for the Russians, there would be no tomorrow. Canada with guys like Nash, Richards, Morrow and Weber kept throwing their bodies all night long and AO was invisible along Malkin and Semin.

Also, I think the much he improved play by the Canadians has to do with what they were doing on the ice when they didn't have the puck, with good positioning never allowing those talented dudes to do their thing up front.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:01 pm

RallyMonkey wrote:I honestly can't believe i even have to debate this point. It's pretty simple logic. The more time spent with each other, the more practice with each other, and the more games played with each other, the better a team will be. Not rocket science, just fact.

No question. But you write as if that's the only reason teams are playing better as a unit now. I think the sense of urgency created by the "win or go home" status of this week's games also causes a team to jell just as much as familiarity. Desperation works that way.

RallyMonkey wrote:What's funny is the reports out of the Canada vs. Russia game last night are that the Russians are pointing towards a lack of chemistry as they tried to jam half KHL'ers and half NHL'ers on the ice and make it work.

Somewhat legit, as the KHL plays on international-sized ice surfaces. This tournament is being played on NHL-sized rinks. Plus the KHL probably has a less physical style than the NHL and probably uses dump-and-chase as an offensive tactic less than the NHL.

But do you think the Russians would have trotted out that excuse if they lost 3-2 instead of getting their asses handed to them? I don't. Or if they won the gold, would their post-podium interview been filled with quotes about how they overcame the adversity created by poor chemistry due to melding players from two leagues into one team? I have my doubts.

The "merging of two worlds" excuse won't wash for the Canadian or U.S. teams, which are comprised exclusively of NHL players who play on 200x85 ice just like GM, er, Canada Hockey, Place. NHL teams also use extensive scouting, so none of these players on the Canadian or U.S. can use unfamiliarity as an excuse.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:32 pm

IMO there's 2 reasons the Russians are not as dominant in sports as they have been in the past.

1) The state of the economy is such that they can't pay for their athletics like they used to.

2) They shelter their athletes from the best competition. This is more prevelent in the fighting world. Both in boxing and in MMA. The Klitschko brothers are spoon fed fighters that they know are no threat to win. Guys who have great records against subpar to terrible fighters. Guys they can sell on their record. The same thing happens with Fedor in MMA. The last 4 years has seen him fight guys with names who really aren't very good anymore or at all. Guys like Sylvia and Arlovski were past their prime and Brett Rogers undefeated record against no names (outside of Arlovski) is meaningless. If they want to succeed again they need to stop sheltering their athletes. I'm not exactly sure how this relates to the hockey team but it sure as hell relates to Russia as a whole in the winter Olympics.

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:32 pm

The "merging of two worlds" excuse won't wash for the Canadian or U.S. teams, which are comprised exclusively of NHL players who play on 200x85 ice just like GM, er, Canada Hockey, Place. NHL teams also use extensive scouting, so none of these players on the Canadian or U.S. can use unfamiliarity as an excuse.

Merging of two worlds or merging of individual talent...either way, it takes time for players to adjust. Unfamiliarity of surface or names on the jerseys, sure, no, that they can't use. But on-ice play style, tendencies, "ice presence", etc. all are absolutely factors when putting a team together for two weeks. And almost to your point, the ice surface likely helped the NHL heavy teams....gulp...gel...faster because it is their regular size rink.

My greater point with all of this, as i think about it and as was stated pages back, this type tournament (i.e Canada Cup/World Cup of Hockey) with approrpriate preparation would be awesome. Don't get me wrong, i have actually enjoyed these games more than i thought i was going to, especially yesterday, but man...what this could be.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:46 pm

ScoopBrady wrote:IMO there's 2 reasons the Russians are not as dominant in sports as they have been in the past.

1) The state of the economy is such that they can't pay for their athletics like they used to.

2) They shelter their athletes from the best competition. This is more prevelent in the fighting world. Both in boxing and in MMA. The Klitschko brothers are spoon fed fighters that they know are no threat to win. Guys who have great records against subpar to terrible fighters. Guys they can sell on their record. The same thing happens with Fedor in MMA. The last 4 years has seen him fight guys with names who really aren't very good anymore or at all. Guys like Sylvia and Arlovski were past their prime and Brett Rogers undefeated record against no names (outside of Arlovski) is meaningless. If they want to succeed again they need to stop sheltering their athletes. I'm not exactly sure how this relates to the hockey team but it sure as hell relates to Russia as a whole in the winter Olympics.

A third reason is that they're a smaller "Russia" now. Back in "The Miracle on Ice" days they were the "Soviet Union". A lot of those little countries have broken away (like Georgia).

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:01 pm

10spro wrote:
Jimmydeicide wrote:If Canada played with the desperation that Latvia had we wouldnt be talking about this. lets see if im right today because the russians will have it for sure.
Desperation at its best dude. Not sure about the Russians.

f***in' euro trash

make me look like an idiot.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:10 pm

I don't know squat about MMA, Scoop, but I think you're a bit off-base about the Klitschkos.

First, they're not Russian. They're from the Ukraine. I know, once a USSR Commie, always a USSR Commie!

Second, they have fought just about everybody available in the heavyweight division the last few years. Problem is, the heavyweight division is filled with bums. That's not Vitali or Wladimir's fault.

There's one plus of that soft competition for Wlad: It keeps his face pretty for his current pincushion, Hayden Panettiere.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:12 pm

Jimmydeicide wrote:
10spro wrote:
Jimmydeicide wrote:If Canada played with the desperation that Latvia had we wouldnt be talking about this. lets see if im right today because the russians will have it for sure.
Desperation at its best dude. Not sure about the Russians.
f***in' euro trash
make me look like an idiot.

Easy there, Mr. Milbury!

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:33 pm

The Russian hockey team isnt as good because they havent eaten, slept and played together every freaking day of their lives for the last 5-10 years like those CCCP teams of the good ole days. The talent isnt missing. Are there really that many players better than Ovechkin, Malkin and Datsyuk?

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:36 pm

pk500 wrote:
Jimmydeicide wrote:f***in' euro trash
make me look like an idiot.
Easy there, Mr. Milbury!

...I couldnt believe Milbury said that either...Though I was lmao when he did.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:27 pm

I don't follow the MMA either but they say Fyodor can't be beat.

It didn't sound like Fyodor or the Klitchkos were official state athletes like in the Soviet days when so-called amateurs were well-paid compared to ordinary citizens there.

Unless they're beholden to some mob or they still live in Russia, it's doubtful the state has anything to do with their careers.

In the case of hockey, they have 2 or 3 NHL stars but the rest have not made their names while Canada is NHL all-stars throughout.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:43 pm

wco81 wrote:In the case of hockey, they have 2 or 3 NHL stars but the rest have not made their names while Canada is NHL all-stars throughout.

Say what? Russia is stacked with NHL talent.

Bryzgalov and Nabokov are NHL starters in goal. Varlamov carried the Caps through the playoffs in goal last spring.

Ovechkin and Malkin need no explanation. Kovalchuk is a 50-goal scorer in the NHL. Gonchar is one of the best power-play quarterbacks from the blue line in the NHL. Markov is the best defenseman on the Canadiens. Afinigenov has blinding speed and skill when motivated. Semin is a scorer and one of the best players on the Capitals not named Ovechkin or Green. Datsyuk is one of the top five two-way players in the world.

I could go on, if you'd like.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:50 pm

They didn't look too stacked last night.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:55 pm

wco81 wrote:They didn't look too stacked last night.

Nor did the Canadian galaxy of NHL stars in the preliminary rounds against Switzerland. Your point?

You said Russia lacks NHL stars. I call bullshit. The Russian team is comprised of many stars who played poorly against a talented, motivated, more physical Canadian team.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:07 pm

Russia had enough talent that most every analyst picked Russia and Canada as the teams to beat in the Olympics. Their poor performance is a result of a combination of things mentioned here previously -- pathetic defensive effort, lack of physical play, not gelling well (KHL/NHL), and meeting an inspired buzzsaw on their home ice (Team Canada). Nobody in their right mind can question the high level of talent on Russia's team. And there is not a team in the world that could have beat Canada last night. Even if Russia had played more inspired defense and was able to maintain offensive possession better in the first period it would not have mattered. Canada was on a mission and played awesome hockey.

Jimmydeicide · Post by **Jimmydeicide** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:23 pm

wco81 wrote:They didn't look too stacked last night.

If you even remotely followed hockey you would recognize half the team names and they could have quite easily filled a top team if not a better team with all NHL ers, they chose the half and half route and it may have cost them .
All though it was the nhlers not making the plays as much as anything.

Gangrel · Post by **Gangrel** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:44 pm

Gold baby, gold! Congrats to the Canadian Women for beating the US 2-0 for the gold medal in hockey!

The game was tamer then I thought it would be given the history and cockiness shown by the Americans in the pre-game interviews they showed on CTV. To be fair, Canada had their own choice words too, leading me to think it would get dicey, but nothing major happened.

toonarmy · Post by **toonarmy** » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:11 pm

Total class shown by the Canadian crowd during the medal ceremony toward Team USA. Could the USA ladies not figure out how the whole "better bend down a little so the lady can put the medal over your head" thing works? You'd think after about the tenth player the rest would have things figured out, lol. Congrats to Team Canada.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:08 pm

At what point is America's ski sweetheart, Lindsey Vonn, considered a mild flop at these Olympics?

Yes, she won gold and bronze. But she was touted before the Games as a possibility for gold in all five events. She didn't even finish her other three races.

Are two medals enough? Is Vonn getting a pass because she's cute, bubbly and the girl next door?

Maybe Julia Mancuso does have a case ... Wondering out loud.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:09 pm

What a major-league f*ck-up by Kiprusoff early against USA. Yeah!

Diablo25 · Post by **Diablo25** » Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:10 pm

pk500 wrote:What a major-league f*ck-up by Kiprusoff early against USA. Yeah!

YES!!