OT: Racing 2007 (Spoiler Alert)

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:03 pm

Well Loeb has done it again, fourth consecutive World Rally Championship title. Congratulation's to Loeb and it's sad to see Marcus Gronholm call it a day as he announced his retirement from competitive racing.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64222

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:47 pm

Loeb is the best pure driver in the world. He's untouchable on asphalt, and only Gronholm is better on loose surfaces. And Marcus' edge on loose surfaces is hair-thin over Loeb, while Loeb's edge on asphalt is much larger.

Sure, the competition in the WRC pales compared to the 80s, 90s and earlier this decade, but to beat Marcus Gronholm four years on the trot is no small feat.

Loeb is a rally legend, already up there with Mikola, Blomqvist, Alen, Makinen, Sainz, McRae, Toivonen, Kankkunen, Gronholm and McRae. Loeb probably will be considered the greatest of all time when he hangs up his helmet. His smooth, precise style, more akin to a race driver than a rally driver, is perfect for this dull generation of WRC cars.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:05 pm

Hamilton is starting to let his ego get the better of him. He hasn't won a title yet but now he's saying he think he can top Schumacher's 7 world titles.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 1107.shtml

I'm curious to see the test results for Jerez when both Michael and Lewis will be testing at the same time. My guess is Michael will show everyone he's still the one to beat and will once again post the fastest times for each session.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:04 pm

VERY cool video of Wembley being transformed into a racetrack for the Race of Champions later this month:

http://www.raceofchampions.com/#/1_wemb ... formation/

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:56 pm

A sight for sore eyes: Jenson Button tested his Honda today with slick tires as the FIA considers a return to regular rubber in 2009:

Sweet mother of speed, slicks can't return soon enough.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:19 pm

Hot damn slicks are back. Is it just me or do the front tyres look slightly smaller than the rears?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 7:27 pm

Rodster wrote:Hot damn slicks are back. Is it just me or do the front tyres look slightly smaller than the rears?

They probably are, but that's also the case with the current-generation F1 cars. The front wheels are a minimum of 30.5 cm, with a maximum of 35.5; the rear wheels are a minimum of 36.5 cm, with a maximum of 38 cm.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 8:19 pm

pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:Hot damn slicks are back. Is it just me or do the front tyres look slightly smaller than the rears?
They probably are, but that's also the case with the current-generation F1 cars. The front wheels are a minimum of 30.5 cm, with a maximum of 35.5; the rear wheels are a minimum of 36.5 cm, with a maximum of 38 cm.

Take care,
PK

Wow how bout that. It must be an optical illusion because the current groove tyres look almost identical in size to those in the rear. Thanks for the info PK.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:28 pm

Rodster wrote:
pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:Hot damn slicks are back. Is it just me or do the front tyres look slightly smaller than the rears?
They probably are, but that's also the case with the current-generation F1 cars. The front wheels are a minimum of 30.5 cm, with a maximum of 35.5; the rear wheels are a minimum of 36.5 cm, with a maximum of 38 cm.

Take care,
PK
Wow how bout that. It must be an optical illusion because the current groove tyres look almost identical in size to those in the rear. Thanks for the info PK.

Eight years of writing and editing USGP media guides finally came in handy ...

Take care,
PK

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:03 pm

Rodster wrote:Hamilton is starting to let his ego get the better of him. He hasn't won a title yet but now he's saying he think he can top Schumacher's 7 world titles.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 1107.shtml

Where? He doesn't say it anywhere in that link - given that those quotes are taken from the News Of The World, a Sunday newspaper at the rough end of tabloid, he probably didn't say anything else in there either. That's even happened to me, in a piddly little local newspaper, so I daren't even think what it must be like to be famous and in a position where people care about what you come out with.

"If I get the opportunity to break Michael's record I will go for it," must surely be the No Sh*t statement of the year - I wonder if any racing driver will ever decide that they've got enough titles to keep themselves occupied, thanks, and why doesn't someone else take a turn at being champion. He's not alone in wanting to be the best driver there's ever been either - even I intend to make my last words something along the lines of, "Tell everyone I'd have creamed that Raikkonen fella in equal cars..."

Edit: On reflection, maybe I should use something about how even my decaying remains would fancy their chances against Ralf Schumacher?

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:14 pm

pk500 wrote:Loeb probably will be considered the greatest of all time when he hangs up his helmet.

Do you think he'd merit it? Do the dull cars, the relative lack of competition either through a lack of genuine driving talent or a lack of genuinely quick cars, and the shorter, less demanding rallies lessen his claim to be considered alongside such drivers as Kankkunen or Sainz or is it unfair to look at it like that?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 10:16 am

GB_Simo wrote:
pk500 wrote:Loeb probably will be considered the greatest of all time when he hangs up his helmet.
Do you think he'd merit it? Do the dull cars, the relative lack of competition either through a lack of genuine driving talent or a lack of genuinely quick cars, and the shorter, less demanding rallies lessen his claim to be considered alongside such drivers as Kankkunen or Sainz or is it unfair to look at it like that?

I think so, solely because he's a killer on any surface. Plus he had a major foil in Gronholm and beat him four years on the trot. Plus Loeb's solid performances at Le Mans also are a feather in his cap as an all-around driver.

Next season could be a laugh, as Hirvonen isn't quite ready to challenge Loeb. But I think 2009 could be a different story, especially if David Richards gets Subaru's sh*t together next season and Solberg stops whining and starts driving. Latvala is another Finnish killer looming on the horizon, too.

Someone needs to step up soon to challenge Loeb or that will sully his legacy. The WRC needs more manufacturers, too, although the addition of Suzuki next season will help.

Still, I think back to 1999, when there were seven works teams in the WRC: Subaru, Peugeot, Ford, Mitsubishi, SEAT and Skoda. Toyota withdrew after 1999, so there could have been eight works teams if Toyota didn't funnel its resources into its upcoming F1 team. There were seven manufacturers in 2000, too, as Hyundai joined the party. Man, that Hyundai Accent WRC was a fine-looking car, one of my favorites:

But you make a good point, Adam. Even though Loeb is better on all surfaces than Gronholm, I still put Marcus on equal footing because of the competition he beat to win the title in 2000: Makinen, McRae, Sainz, Burns, Panizzi (still the best I've seen on asphalt in his prime), a budding Solberg, Delacour, Kankkunen in his last truly competitive season. The talent pool was SO deep then. It wasn't much more shallow when Gronholm won again in 2002.

I see Loeb as almost a Schumacher-like polarizing figure in rally history when he retires. Schumacher's numbers are so overwhelming that statistically he's the best. Loeb will hold a similar statistical advantage when he quits, which won't be for a while.

But many still think Senna, Fangio and maybe even Gilles were better than Schumacher solely because they had more fever and were more exciting. The same argument will be made against Loeb, who's style and efficiency is as clinical as Schumacher's. Some will claim that Makinen, Kankkunen, Alen or Toivonen (the Gilles of rallying, claimed much too soon) were better because they raced against better competition and were more flamboyant behind the wheel.

Those debates will continue as long as the beer continues to flow at the pub!

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:28 pm

Tis the season to be thankful and stories that warm the heart. I never knew much about Sir Jackie Stewart until I read this article. Every sport has it's catalyst who dares to be different and when they touch the lives of those in the sport to make it better and safer then they become heroes and immortals in the sport. Jackie Stewart is one of them.

We all know motor racing is dangerous and has taken the lives of many. Some see it as a business others see it as their friends dying on the side of the track and dare to make a difference. Jackie Stewart was one of them.

Now go read this article and see why Sir Jackie Stewart is such a special person.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 983573.ece

Excerpts from the article.

"Stewart is trapped. The fuel tanks have ruptured and flooded the cockpit; one spark from the electrics, and the drivers are toast.

After a frantic search for a spanner, they manage to unscrew the steering wheel and lift Stewart to safety. “Graham, get my clothes off,” he pleads. His overalls are soaked in high-octane fuel. He doesn’t want to burn.

An ambulance eventually arrives and he is rushed to hospital. His wife and his close friend, the great Jim Clark, are in the ambulance.

When he starts moaning from the pain of his shattered collarbone and ribs, Clark is appalled. “For goodness sake, Jackie,” he snaps. “Pull yourself together. Helen is here.”

They built men differently in those days."

"April 7: Jimmy crashed. April 10: Mike crashed. June 8: Ludovico crashed. July 7: Jo crashed. . . . and the details are exactly as he describes.

“I was interested that you used the word ‘crashed’ and not ‘died’,” I observe.

“Yes,” he replies. “Why?” “ Crashed wasn’t so bad . . . I wouldn't have put died.”

“We must say we will not race at any circuit that fails to implement the safety measures we have requested. And this is not a Jackie Stewart issue, it’s a GPDA thing, so let’s have a debate and decide together.”

When Stewart proposed that they boycott the Nurburgring – the greatest circuit in the world – there was uproar. “It’s stupidly dangerous,” he insisted. “There are 14.7 miles of track, and there’s hardly a barrier on either side. I told the owners what needed to be done. They refused. I’m sorry, I just can’t accept that.”

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:40 pm

I don't know if you've ever watched the old movie Grand Prix, Rod, but that film contains footage of the downpour in Belgium that caught out Stewart and several others.

I can understand some of the opposition Jackie's safety crusade met, even if to us looking back it seems madness to disagree with him. Some drivers had just come to accept things as they were - Pedro Rodriguez, for example, had a fatalistic approach to his racing, and Innes Ireland, mentioned in the article, was of an age and of a character that led him to view the risks as a part of the job and part of the whole attraction. Innes, incidentally, once survived an accident going through the tunnel at Monaco when he was caught out by a reverse-pattern shifter, locked the rear wheels changing into too low a gear by mistake and "left the tunnel without the bloody car", so his wasn't the view of a man who'd gone his whole career without first-hand experience of the risks involved.

I can understand it, but I'm thankful that men like JYS ploughed on in spite of the opposition and dissenters - their actions almost 40 years ago were the spark that led to some of the safety measures we take for granted today.

It's a shame, though, that until recently it still took tragedy for us to realise that there was still more that could be done to protect drivers, teams, marshals and spectators - how many of us thought in early 1994 that Formula One needed to be made safer after Brundle, Verstappen and Barrichello had all survived huge accidents relatively unscathed? How many within the NASCAR fraternity thought that their series were doing fine before Irwin, Petty, Roper and Earnhardt were killed? Now, though, organisations like the Grand Prix Drivers Association suggest improvements to track and driver safety regularly, led by DC and Mark Webber - the increased attempts to prevent serious and fatal accidents rather than reacting to them are something I certainly welcome.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:38 am

Well said Adam. Because of true men like Sir Jackie Stewart. Robert Kubica lived to race another day as he suffered only a concussion from his car which was totally destroyed in Canada.

Kimi Raikkonnen walked away from a violent head on collision at 180 MPH into a tyre barrier at Monza with just a stiff neck. And Lewis Hamilton escaped a 150-160MPH head collision into a tyre barrier at the Nuerbering to race the following day.

All of those drivers owe their lives to Sir Jackie Stewart who championed driver safety in motor racing. And yet Max Mosley called him insignificant last year during the upheaval of the Ferrari, McLaren spygate row.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 9:55 am

You wouldn't think it was possible to hold the FIA in lower esteem, would you, and yet...:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64323

Brundle's response, linked to in the Autosport article, is worth a read too.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:39 am

GB_Simo wrote:You wouldn't think it was possible to hold the FIA in lower esteem, would you, and yet...:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64323

Brundle's response, linked to in the Autosport article, is worth a read too.

Adam, I totally agree with Brundle on this one, no question. I think the reason McLaren got hit so hard was because the FIA let them off the hook the first time around. They took a lot of flack for looking the other way and Ferrari wanting to be a harsher punishment but the FIA stood by their decision not to punish McLaren as the evidence was inconclusive.

Then Ron Dennis calls up the FIA and says whoa maybe there was something to this spygate afterall. Because our traitor Alonso feels that's the only way to be the number one driver on the team.

So the FIA had no choice but to punish McLaren severely even if the punishment did not fit the crime and there was no real smoking gun. I do see the FIA's point "IF" that's what led to their massive fine and decision against McLaren. In other words we made our decision, we took the heat for you and you made us look bad. So screw you now.

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:05 pm

Rosberg signs with Williams through 2010

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/n ... 1239.shtml

Good for him and i'm glad he signed with Williams. I want to see the top talent in the Sport to be spread out with the top teams. And that's the way it's shaping up to be. Hopefully if Sebastien Vettel has another solid season maybe he can join the ranks of the top teams. I also read that he was rumored for a seat next to Lewis. Could be wrong on that one though.

Kimi/Massa Ferrari
Hamilton/? McLaren
Kubica/Heidfeld BMW
Rosberg/Nakajima(not a top driver) Williams
Alonso/? Renault

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:51 am

It's official: Alonso to Renault, partnered by Piquet Jr. The team press release:

>>>>>

ING Renault F1 Team announces 2008 driver line-up - 10 DEC 2007

The ING Renault F1 Team is pleased to announce a competitive driver duo for the 2008 Formula 1 season.

Next year, double world champion Fernando Alonso will drive alongside Brazilian rookie Nelson Piquet Jr. They will be supported by Frenchman Romain Grosjean, reigning 2007 F3 Euroseries Champion and a product of Renault's driver development scheme, in the role of test driver.

"Fernando and Nelsinho will form one of the most exciting driver line up of 2008," commented Renault F1 Team Managing Director Flavio Briatore. "We are delighted to be welcoming Fernando back home to the team where he enjoyed his greatest success. His abilities as a driver and a team leader are well known, and we look forward to forging another strong partnership. What's more, he knows the team well and how we operate; he will feel comfortable straight away in this environment. Nelsinho is one of the most promising young talents in motorsport. After his success in GP2, he has spent a year learning the ropes as our test driver and getting to know the team ; he is now ready to step up to the next level."

ING Renault F1 Team President Bernard Rey commented: "The entire team has been working flat out over the past months to return to the front of the field, and a top-line driver line-up is essential to achieving our targets. Our recent technology investments, the return of Fernando Alonso to the team, and the promotion of Nelsinho Piquet, all signal our intent to return to winning ways next year. Renault is also delighted to welcome a talented, young Frenchman to the team as test driver."

Fernando Alonso rejoins the Renault F1 Team after spending the 2007 season at McLaren-Mercedes. Alonso drove for the Renault F1 Team between 2003 and 2006, during which time he scored 15 Grand Prix victories and won two world championships, in 2005 and 2006. He will play a key role in the team's efforts to return to the front of the field in 2008.

"I am delighted to be returning to Renault," commented the 26 year-old Spaniard. "This is the team where I grew up as a driver in Formula 1. Now it is time for us to begin a new chapter together. I am very excited about working with this great team once more, and confident that together we can move back to the front of the field. Renault had a difficult year in 2007, but I know that the team has real strength in depth. I am confident they can produce a fast and competitive car and be back at the top in 2008."

Nelson Piquet Jr will complete the team's race driver line-up. The 22 year-old Brazilian spent 2007 as the Renault F1 Team's test and reserve driver, after finishing runner-up in the 2006 GP2 series championship. He will make his F1 debut at the 2008 Australian Grand Prix.

"First of all, I want to thank Flavio and Renault for putting their confidence in me for 2008," commented Nelsinho. "It is a fantastic opportunity to make my Formula 1 debut with one of the top teams on the grid, and alongside one of the very best drivers in the sport. This drive is something I have been working towards since the end of 2006, and I am proud that my performances as test driver have earned me this position. I am looking forward to teaming up with Fernando, and learning from him. As a rookie, there is no better way to start your career than to have a double world champion as your reference point."

The team's 2008 challenger, the Renault R28, will run for the first time at a three-day teams test in Valencia, Spain from 22 – 24 January. The car will be officially launched at Renault's corporate communications headquarters in Paris, France on Thursday 31 January 2008.

<<<<<

The dominoes are starting to fall in place. I would imagine that Fisichella will end up with Force India, with Kovalainen going to McLaren.

Hopefully this means Ralf's tenure in F1 is over, since he already has said he's not interested in the Force India drive. I see a lucrative DTM contract in Ralf's very near future with Mercedes, taking the seat vacated by the recently retired Hakkinen.

The DTM has lost its star F1 driver draws of the last four years, Alesi, Frentzen and Hakkinen, and needs at least one former F1 guy in its lineup to boost TV ratings in Germany. Ralfie Boy fits that bill perfectly, and Mercedes will offer a pay packet to make it worth his while.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:26 am

PK, F1-Live.com is reporting that Alonso will be the highest paid driver next year at 50m per year. And he has a clause in his contract that he can exit the contract for specified reasons.

They are also reporting that Adrian Sutil may also be a candidate for the McLaren seat alongside Lewis if they pass up on Heikki.

Michael the other day spoke about Ralf and said he has many options outside of Formula One and that he should only stay if he was offered a top car which is not going to happen. I agree with you I think the DTM is a perfect fit for him and should land him some solid money which might come close to or exceed what he would get from F1. Plus the cars are a lot safer and look very cool.

I love the look of DTM cars.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:36 am

Rodster wrote:They are also reporting that Adrian Sutil may also be a candidate for the McLaren seat alongside Lewis if they pass up on Heikki.

If Sutil gets the seat, then it will be a display of the unbelievable power Hamilton wields within the team.

I know Sutil has promise, but he's nowhere near as good as Kovalainen right now. If McLaren wants the Constructors' title next season, then it needs Kovalainen or De La Rosa, not Sutil.

But Sutil is one of Hamilton's best mates. So if The Ron hires Sutil, then Lewis has that team in an iron grip and can damn near dictate anything he wants. Either that, or The Ron is so worn out from the Alonso-Hamilton acrimony of last season that he wants Lewis' best friend in the lineup to eliminate any chance of an intra-team nuclear war like 2007.

Take care,
PK

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 10:45 am

pk500 wrote:
Rodster wrote:They are also reporting that Adrian Sutil may also be a candidate for the McLaren seat alongside Lewis if they pass up on Heikki.
If Sutil gets the seat, then it will be a display of the unbelievable power Hamilton wields within the team.

I know Sutil has promise, but he's nowhere near as good as Kovalainen right now. If McLaren wants the Constructors' title next season, then it needs Kovalainen or De La Rosa, not Sutil.

But Sutil is one of Hamilton's best mates. So if The Ron hires Sutil, then Lewis has that team in an iron grip and can damn near dictate anything he wants. Either that, or The Ron is so worn out from the Alonso-Hamilton acrimony of last season that he wants Lewis' best friend in the lineup to eliminate any chance of an intra-team nuclear war like 2007.

Take care,
PK

I think if Sutil gets the seat it will be because of that reason alone. I read on several websites that Lewis is set to earn in the neighborhood of 100 million per year just from his McLaren contract alone. That's insane money and is probably why he bolted for Switzerland.

I also read that it's pretty clear Hamilton is their number one guy even though they still say there will be total team equality. I think McLaren learned their lesson the hard way. They lost both championships, both drivers each ended with 109 points and I think they both Alonso and Hamilton had four race wins as well.

GB_Simo · Post by **GB_Simo** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 6:56 pm

pk500 wrote:If McLaren wants the Constructors' title next season, then it needs Kovalainen or De La Rosa, not Sutil.

Earlier in this thread none of us were so much as mentioning PDLR when putting forward candidates for the vacant seat, but he makes all kinds of sense. Promoting from within keeps things stable, his salary demands won't be any kind of drain, and he's matured into a reliable racer who won't at any time give Hamilton much to worry about - against the McLaren philosophy, I know, but after the year they've just had...

I guess Kovalainen isn't in a Renault next season because he might actually be quick enough to worry Alonso?

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 7:07 pm

GB_Simo wrote: I guess Kovalainen isn't in a Renault next season because he might actually be quick enough to worry Alonso?

That is the belief held by many. Hekki's season started off quite shaky. By the end of the year he became a very capable driver in an under performing Renault.

I think McLaren will go with Hekki instead of Sutil because he was more consistent during 2007 and he weathered the storm from Flavio himself who called his drive during the Australian GP as rubbish.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:47 pm

GB_Simo wrote:I guess Kovalainen isn't in a Renault next season because he might actually be quick enough to worry Alonso?

Spot on, mate. Alonso will eat Piquet Jr. alive. He's a much better driver than Nelsinho, and Nelsinho never has needed to work, to dig deep, for anything.

Until this season when he was a test driver for Renault, Daddy (Nelson Piquet) financed his entire career, even creating teams for him with the best equipment.

The kid must be a real spoiled puke, because Autosport features always describe him as "moody," "difficult" or "sullen." Autosport usually praises all drivers as gods, so you know the kid must be a prick when that mag describes with such adjectives.

Take care,
PK