OT: Major League Baseball 2006 Season Discussion

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Mon May 22, 2006 9:40 am

Programmed2Kill wrote:People had no clue Raphael Palmeiro was on the stuff and were excusing him, too.

Does Jose Canseco ring a bell? Jose wrote in his book, as well as told 60 minutes in an interview that he had injected Rafael Palmeiro with steroids (along with Texas teammates I-Rod and Gonzo). That's why people were accusing Raffy and had a clue about it.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:16 am

XXXIV wrote:Pirates vs Indians type matchups...they are silly...

Why is the Pirates vs. Indians matchup silly? There's a pretty big rivalry between those two cities. The Indians help fill PNC Park on every visit and there were a lot of Pirates fans at Jacobs Field this weekend. If anything, they should play more often than every 3 years.

The Pirates really got f*cked in division realignment and interleague play. The fact that the Pirates only play the Phillies 6 times a year is a travesty.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:29 am

Leebo33 wrote:
The Pirates really got f*cked in division realignment and interleague play. The fact that the Pirates only play the Phillies 6 times a year is a travesty.

The Pirates could have gone either way I guess, it makes sense for them to be in the Central or East, but I'm sure glad it's the East so that my Cards get 15 cracks at them per year.

I really wish MLB would finish their realignment and put 5 teams in the AL West so everyone has the same amount of divisional teams. Perhaps ship Colorado over there, and then move Houston to the NL West. That makes the most sense IMO.

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:32 am

Coors field doesn't need daily DHs.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:57 am

Leebo33 wrote:
XXXIV wrote:Pirates vs Indians type matchups...they are silly...
Why is the Pirates vs. Indians matchup silly?

Cause I said so...

Just seemed that way. Im not from either city and just couldnt see the rivalry but if you say its there then its there...

I stand corrected .

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:15 am

XXXIV wrote:Just seemed that way. Im not from either city and just couldnt see the rivalry but if you say its there then its there...

Well, there's not going to be a rivalry if they only play 3 games every 3 years! But the foundation is there for a good rivalry given the Browns/Steelers hatred and the fact the cities are only 130 miles apart.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:23 am

I don't understand Security at Jacobs Field. They DON'T let bottles or cans in, they DON'T let umbrellas in, but they DO let Terrible Towels in?!?!

I was nauseous all weekend.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:38 am

jondiehl wrote:The Pirates could have gone either way I guess, it makes sense for them to be in the Central or East, but I'm sure glad it's the East so that my Cards get 15 cracks at them per year.

Enjoy it now! The Pirates owned the Cardinals in the 1970s (7-2-1 in season series, 6 division titles to zero, and .561 winning percentage head-to-head) and the 1990s (6-3-1, 3 division titles to 1, and .550), so the Pirates will make a comeback in the 2010s.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:58 am

Nice to see Minnesota finally get a new ballpark.

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Mon May 22, 2006 12:07 pm

FatPitcher wrote:Coors field doesn't need daily DHs.

It certainly wouldn't hurt, since it's basically been a pitcher's park so far.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:48 pm

Kazuya wrote:
FatPitcher wrote:Coors field doesn't need daily DHs.
It certainly wouldn't hurt, since it's basically been a pitcher's park so far.

It's the humidor!

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:58 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
Kazuya wrote:
FatPitcher wrote:Coors field doesn't need daily DHs.
It certainly wouldn't hurt, since it's basically been a pitcher's park so far.
It's the humidor!

Certainly possible... also, the Rockies have finally learned what the Rangers have not, which is that you can't bring in pitchers who have "traditional" success and bring them into Coors (or Ameriquest Field) and expect them to be any good. The Rockies have remade their staff with guys whose best pictches are primarily two-seam fastballs and sinkers, as opposed to the typical 4-seam/slider guys who dominate baseball.

Some more thoughts...

http://www.longmontfyi.com/sports-story.asp?id=7843

Programmed2Kill · Post by **Programmed2Kill** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:03 pm

jondiehl wrote:
Programmed2Kill wrote:People had no clue Raphael Palmeiro was on the stuff and were excusing him, too.
Does Jose Canseco ring a bell? Jose wrote in his book, as well as told 60 minutes in an interview that he had injected Rafael Palmeiro with steroids (along with Texas teammates I-Rod and Gonzo). That's why people were accusing Raffy and had a clue about it.

Nobody thought Palmeiro was on anything before and even after that book. And also after that acting job he did telling all of America he wasn't on 'roids, people believed him even more and excused him from McGuire, Canseco and Sosa.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:06 pm

I believe the Reds also made the connection that they need ground ball pitchers in that bandbox of theirs.

And yes, it is nice that the Twins will be leaving the Metrodome after a few more years. What an absolute dump for baseball.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:33 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
jondiehl wrote:The Pirates could have gone either way I guess, it makes sense for them to be in the Central or East, but I'm sure glad it's the East so that my Cards get 15 cracks at them per year.
Enjoy it now! The Pirates owned the Cardinals in the 1970s (7-2-1 in season series, 6 division titles to zero, and .561 winning percentage head-to-head) and the 1990s (6-3-1, 3 division titles to 1, and .550), so the Pirates will make a comeback in the 2010s.

Those three NL East titles from 90-92 were a fluke.

They haven't had a winning record since '92 and haven't been to the World Series since '79. Ouch.

Maybe if MLB gets a hard salary cap, teams like the Royals, Brewers, Pirates, etc will be competitive again, but I don't see that happening with out a NHL-like work stoppage that finally straightened that league out.

I guess the Pirates could get back in the NL East with the Mets and Phils if the Marlins hurry up and get out of Miami. Perhaps a move to San Antonio could mean a divisional swap with the Bucco's.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:59 pm

jondiehl wrote:Those three NL East titles from 90-92 were a fluke. They haven't had a winning record since '92 and haven't been to the World Series since '79. Ouch.

...which means they are due! The Angels hadn't had won more than 85 games for 15 years and then they won the 2002 World Series. The White Sox had a little bit of success between 1959 and 2005, but a lot of losing seasons in between WS appearances. Detroit may be the sleeper team this year after 12 straight losing seasons.

I would *much* prefer a salary floor to a salary cap. That way the Pirates' owners would be forced to invest in the team rather than just take profits. Revenue sharing is the worst thing that ever happened to the Pirates.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:14 pm

Sweet comeback win White Sox

I love these guys....

wabash97 · Post by **wabash97** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:40 pm

"Maybe if MLB gets a hard salary cap, teams like the Royals, Brewers, Pirates, etc will be competitive again, but I don't see that happening with out a NHL-like work stoppage that finally straightened that league out."

The impression I get from reading a lot of financial stuff this year, starting with hardballtimes.com and branching out, is that the Royals and Pirates especially (lump the Twins in here if you'd like) are run by cheap bastards who pocket revenue-sharing funds to the tune of double their team salaries, pay their employees nothing and just generally use their teams as personal cash cows. Especially the Royals, from what I read. Baseball - and this isn't coming from my personal research, but plenty is done by reputable people out there - has better competitive balance (not salary balance) than the NBA and even the NFL.

B

Edit: Leebo, I missed your comments. And, I agree.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue May 23, 2006 2:22 am

A. Pujols is on pace for 81 homers as of today.

Bosox, still have the Yankees number this year as they spanked them 9-5.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:11 am

wabash97 wrote:Baseball - and this isn't coming from my personal research, but plenty is done by reputable people out there - has better competitive balance (not salary balance) than the NBA and even the NFL.

I certainly don't see that. I mean, coming out of spring training, some teams (ie. Royals) had zero chance at winning the World Series before they played game 1. Their rosters are filled with minor leaguers and bench players from other teams.

The NFL is the ultimate in parity. The phrase "any given Sunday" isn't just a cute saying. Even the Arizona Cardinals, or the Cleveland Browns can beat the former Super Bowl winners on any Sunday. Perhaps not 9 times out of 10, but when you're only playing once per week and plan for beating that specific team all week, it's about as close to even as it can get. If the Royals and Yankees matchup for 10 straight games, the Royals would be lucky to win 1 or 2 games. Football is a true team game, baseball is a team game but it's more about the 1 on 1 matchup of hitter vs pitcher, where individual talent shines. You can have the world's best QB taking snaps, but without a good offensive line, talented receivers to get open, and a great RB to keep the defense honest, it won't matter. In baseball, you can go out and buy a Cy Young winner and he can get you a shutout or pitch 7-8 strong innings every time out, and the defense doesn't have to do much behind him.

I also agree that MLB needs a salary floor, in addition to the hard cap. It makes no sense to do the revenue sharing and then let the owners bank the money. Trust me, I saw it growing up with the football Cardinals here in town. Bill Bidwell is one of the worst owners in professional sports, but even though his football team sucked, they still had more of a chance to win each week than the Royals do right now.

Teams like the Royals, Pirates, Brewers, etc could win back in the 70's and 80's and compete with the big revenue clubs because the team salaries weren't astronomical at that time. Sure, there was still a difference in payrolls, but it wasn't the $200mil vs $40mil that they have now (more like $10mil vs $3mil). Yes, the differences might be the same (big spenders with 3-4x the payroll size of the smallest), but instead of $160mil, it's only $7mil which is easier to swallow, even in 80's money.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:45 am

10spro wrote: Bosox, still have the Yankees number this year as they spanked them 9-5.

Not surprising as the Yankees look like a "shell" of those teams that used to grind it out. Now every game they hope for a power barrage to compensate for the poor pitching. Even Mo is showing his age.

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:51 am

jondiehl wrote:Teams like the Royals, Pirates, Brewers, etc could win back in the 70's and 80's and compete with the big revenue clubs because the team salaries weren't astronomical at that time.

Trust me. I used to buy into that argument as a convenient excuse, but the main reason the Pirates lose is because of extreme incompetence. Try to assemble a team using only talent from the Pirates' minor league system over the past 15 years. The sad thing is that a few of those decent starters were lost in the Rule V draft (The Pirates should NEVER lose a player to the Rule V draft while keeping marginal at best veterans on the 40 man roster). Aramis Ramirez is the best player out of the minor league system in the past decade and they freaking gave him away to save a few million that they subsequently blow on guys like Burnitz and a long term contract for Jack Wilson.

You say the Pirates competed in the 1970s because the salary differential wasn't as great, but you fail to explain why they didn't compete in the years 1928 to 1969 (1 playoff appearance, only a handful of second place finishes, and 19 losing seasons). Wasn't the salary differential just as small in those years?

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Tue May 23, 2006 11:57 am

Leebo33 wrote: You say the Pirates competed in the 1970s because the salary differential wasn't as great, but you fail to explain why they didn't compete in the years 1928 to 1969 (1 playoff appearance, only a handful of second place finishes, and 19 losing seasons).

True, bad ownership will put together a losing ballclub no matter how much money they throw at it. You could give Bill Bidwell 2x the salary cap room of any other NFL team and I'd be willing to bet that he'd manage to screw that up.

rubba19 · Post by **rubba19** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:12 pm

wabash97 wrote:"he Royals and Pirates especially (lump the Twins in here if you'd like) are run by cheap bastards who pocket revenue-sharing funds to the tune of double their team salaries, pay their employees nothing and just generally use their teams as personal cash cows. Especially the Royals, from what I read.

That is unfortunately correct. I think the Royals made about $10 million last year. But, since they can't figure out a long-term plan from their azz, they sign washed up guys to multi-million dollar contracts (Elarton, Sanders) and guys who are blocking prospects from playing (Doug Minkalphabet), and choose the wrong franchise player (Mike Sweeney over Beltran, Damon, Dye, the list goes on.)

However, even in current time, the Royals have such a horrible culture that they can't even fire the GM because nobody wants the job.

I agree with the salary floor. If you can't pay, you can't play.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Fri May 26, 2006 5:28 pm

Barrett wants to punch some one?

How about punching Ryan dempster or Nefi Perez?...How about Baker?
How about being a man and hitting himself for being such a b*tch?