MLB Baseball 2009 Season Thread

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 8:50 am

After reading Ortiz' statements this weekened, I'm not buying his excuses. Yet another cheater (and liar) to add to the list. It's very disappointing to not only find out these guys broke the rules (and possibly the law, depending on what they took). To then treat us as idiots by lying about it just tarnishes their images even more.

I realize that players have always done things to get an advantage, like stealing signs, scuffind balls, and taking "greenies". This just feels different. It's a whole new level of cheating, and like I said, the phony denials on top of it make them look worse.

After watching some of Ken Burn's Baseball lately, I kinda wish I was around during the 40s through the 60s to see that era.

snaz16 · Post by **snaz16** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:28 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
snaz16 wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote:This whole waiver claim thing seems shady to me overall. Sure, Toronto wanted out from under Rios' contract, but giving him away for nothing? Just seems like a silly rule...but I guess the White Sox, if they want to pay the bill, can have him.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/news/ ... NHeadlines
I see nothing wrong with it. All teams have a shot at him,starting with the team with the worst record. If claimed, Toronto could have pulled him back,or tried to work out a trade. ,ala Cleveland did with Minn in the Carl Pavano deal. I guess with the high price tag,the Sox figured they were giving enough. Not sure what the White Sox plan on getting out of it,other than insurance in the outfield for Dye,Quenten,and Posednik. Who knows,a change of scenery might help him. After the Tribe took 2 outta 3 this weekend,they need to address pitching issues.
Dude, I know it's "fair", it's just a dumb rule that you can just put a guy out there with his contract and let anyone take him. That's all I'm saying. It's mainly a gripe against guaranteed contracts.

Like the sox and that 60 mill contract...let the buyer beware. And I'm with you on the guaranteed contracts.

snaz16 · Post by **snaz16** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:42 pm

matthewk wrote:After reading Ortiz' statements this weekened, I'm not buying his excuses. Yet another cheater (and liar) to add to the list. It's very disappointing to not only find out these guys broke the rules (and possibly the law, depending on what they took). To then treat us as idiots by lying about it just tarnishes their images even more.

I realize that players have always done things to get an advantage, like stealing signs, scuffind balls, and taking "greenies". This just feels different. It's a whole new level of cheating, and like I said, the phony denials on top of it make them look worse.

After watching some of Ken Burn's Baseball lately, I kinda wish I was around during the 40s through the 60s to see that era.

Funny you mention greenies. Listeningto the Baseball show on XM, on the way home from work yesterday,and in an interview with a doctor,he was saying that greenies not only produce quicker reflex and awareness,but also better vision. His opinion being that the supposed advantage steroids have over amphetimines just doesn't exist. If there is any truth to this spin than the players of the late 60's -70's -80's that took the greenies(and Jim Bouton's book Ball 4 talked extensively about it.)than are they not just as guilty of cheating,as today's players?

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 10:45 pm

Steve Stone has talked volumes about how players in the 60's & 70's downed speed all game long (including himself). Some guys would crap their pants they'd be so amped up...

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:56 am

I'd have to see more evidence that greenies really gave players that much of an advantage playing. I admit I haven't looked into it a whole lot, but I am getting more interested in finding out about these things. With all the steroids talk, I'd like to see what kind of comparisons can be made to the older PEDs.

Right now, my gut feeling is that steroids are worse for the game. That may change as I learn more about the PEDs of the past. Plus, the lying bugs me. Even after they get caught, thew make up silly stories to try and minimize the damage.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Aug 12, 2009 8:36 pm

Didn't Canseco say the value of steroids wasn't power but keeping up a certain level of energy and alertness through the long slog of a season?

Players on the juice were hitting more HRs not because they got more power but because they were at peak levels of energy for more parts of the season?

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:00 pm

I wonder how Phillies' fans feel now about "settling" for Lee instead of getting Halladay.

Man, he is really dominating the NL so far.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:12 pm

lexbur wrote:I wonder how Phillies' fans feel now about "settling" for Lee instead of getting Halladay.

Man, he is really dominating the NL so far.

He's pitching great. I would have loved to have seen the Cards get him, but they didn't have enough left to trade for the calibar of pitcher he is.
Great pick-up and makes them even stronger than last year. A Cards-Phillies playoff match-up would be great to watch.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 1:40 pm

lexbur wrote:I wonder how Phillies' fans feel now about "settling" for Lee instead of getting Halladay.

Man, he is really dominating the NL so far.

Forget about the Phillies fans.

How do the Indians fans feel about giving up Cy Young winners 2 years in a row?

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:29 pm

wco81 wrote:Forget about the Phillies fans.

How do the Indians fans feel about giving up Cy Young winners 2 years in a row?

Even worse than seeing CC and Lee go was losing Victor Martinez. That one really hurt. CC and Lee couldn't wait to leave town, but Victor LOVED it here. The dude was in tears when he was cleaning out his locker after the trade. So were alot of fans.

Whether or not it was the right thing to do considering the financial situation, who knows right now? But I do know all these "prospects" we got in return better come through and come through FAST or it's going to take YEARS to repair the PR damage done by the ownership this year. There's going to continue to be alot of empty seats down there. It's sad.

And watch Game Seven of the World Series turn out to be CC vs. Lee. Wouldn't that just top it off perfectly?

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:43 pm

lexbur wrote:
wco81 wrote:Forget about the Phillies fans.

How do the Indians fans feel about giving up Cy Young winners 2 years in a row?
Even worse than seeing CC and Lee go was losing Victor Martinez. That one really hurt. CC and Lee couldn't wait to leave town, but Victor LOVED it here. The dude was in tears when he was cleaning out his locker after the trade. So were alot of fans.

Whether or not it was the right thing to do considering the financial situation, who knows right now? But I do know all these "prospects" we got in return better come through and come through FAST or it's going to take YEARS to repair the PR damage done by the ownership this year. There's going to continue to be alot of empty seats down there. It's sad.

And watch Game Seven of the World Series turn out to be CC vs. Lee. Wouldn't that just top it off perfectly?

lexbur:

Victor will prolly be in tears after he leaves Boston, if you get my drift. It normally ends up that way.

anyway, i feel what you sayin. Personally, i had believed Shapiro had got back too little, in both trades. However, a couple "experts" i read said otherwise. who knows

how is Matt LaPorta doin these days ?

_

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:50 pm

Watching the Cards game. Seeing Smoltz in a Cardinal uniform is just.....strange!

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:25 pm

sportdan30 wrote:Watching the Cards game. Seeing Smoltz in a Cardinal uniform is just.....strange!

I think his best days are behind him.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:48 am

10spro wrote:
sportdan30 wrote:Watching the Cards game. Seeing Smoltz in a Cardinal uniform is just.....strange!
I think his best days are behind him.

That's a pretty controversial statement!! What makes you say that? The fact he's 42, throwing in the low 90's with an era of 8.0+?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Of course his best days are behind him - even Smoltz knows that. I think he'll be short lived as a starter then moved to middle relief. Then again, I though the same thing with Jeff Weaver in '06...

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:19 am

greggsand wrote:
10spro wrote:
sportdan30 wrote:Watching the Cards game. Seeing Smoltz in a Cardinal uniform is just.....strange!
I think his best days are behind him.
That's a pretty controversial statement!! What makes you say that? The fact he's 42, throwing in the low 90's with an era of 8.0+?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Of course his best days are behind him - even Smoltz knows that. I think he'll be short lived as a starter then moved to middle relief. Then again, I though the same thing with Jeff Weaver in '06...

No sh*t Sherlock. Maybe I should have added my cool glasses after my initial post, but you see, despite his numbers I don't think that's he's as bad as his last couple of starts for BOS.

He's still a MLB pitcher, but just not for the American league and most definitely not in the tough AL eastern division. Cards have a need for both a fifth starter and a setup man for Ryan Franklin and he may just be that man. Just a guess now, but I think his numbers will improve in the NL.

It does just seem like yesterday though, where along Maddux and Glavine they were an awesome 123 force for the Braves.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 2:58 am

I doubt Smoltzie will be coming out of the pen anytime soon. I'm sure it was agreed upon that he'd be a starter. He's been saying for years that being a starter is MUCH easier on his arm than a reliever and that's one of the reasons he went to Boston...because they wouldn't stick him in the pen. If I had to guess...he'll never pitch in relief again. That part of his career is over. In fact, if he can't throw 94 with that biting slider, his career is probably over. He just doesn't have the confidence nor the stuff that he did even last year. This may be the one surgery he doesn't successfully come back from. I mean, eventually it had to happen. It's sad.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 8:57 am

vinny-b wrote:
how is Matt LaPorta doin these days ?

_

He just called back up from the minors the other day. He had a nice 2-run double last night. Hopefully he'll get to play every day now so we can see what he can do at this level.

Alot of Tribe fans are p*ssed off to the point of not watching anymore, but not me. I'm anxious to see what these kids can do. Masterson pitched great last night, 6.1 innings, 0 ER against the Angels. Victor who?

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:12 pm

Thome to the NL?

That's alot of money for a pinch-hitter. But I guess if you're the Dodgers you can afford $2.5 million for a one-month rental (plus post-season).

vinny-b · Post by **vinny-b** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:17 pm

the yankees are running like a machine, right now.

props to Girardi. And a FU to the ny media.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:08 pm

vinny-b wrote:the yankees are running like a machine, right now.

props to Girardi. And a FU to the ny media.

Yeah, they've been hot since the beginning of the season, the difference this year is that all their expensive acquisitions are paying off thus far.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:56 am

10spro wrote:
vinny-b wrote:the yankees are running like a machine, right now.

props to Girardi. And a FU to the ny media.
Yeah, they've been hot since the beginning of the season, the difference this year is that all their expensive acquisitions are paying off thus far.

I'm curious to see how CC does this post season. Tribe and Brewer fans will tell you, no matter how good he is in the regular season, Mr. October he ain't.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:26 am

Wow.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:33 am

Slumberland wrote: Wow.

Hey, the Mets signed Mark Kelso!

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:36 am

webdanzer wrote:
Slumberland wrote: Wow.
Hey, the Mets signed Mark Kelso!

I thought it was Barry Bonds' old helmet, just painted in Mets' colors.

Slumberland · Post by **Slumberland** » Wed Sep 02, 2009 9:36 am

It's funny, when I read that there was a new helmet which could withstand a 105-mph fastball, I figured it was because of some new advances in padding or space-age polymers... not simply because IT'S F*CKING HUGE.