The Official Console Talk Thread

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:55 am

Holy f*ck...$179.99 for the HD itself. No thanks.

And they still aren't putting the smaller, cooler chips in the Elite. Is HDMI that big of a deal? I'll be waiting until the next iteration.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:11 am

The drive will be sold separately and come with a transfer kit to get all of your data off your old drive.

I know people won't be happy with the price. But a self powered, external 120gig drive will run you about $150 bucks if you were picking one up for your PC.

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:28 am

Danimal wrote:The drive will be sold separately and come with a transfer kit to get all of your data off your old drive.

I know people won't be happy with the price. But a self powered, external 120gig drive will run you about $150 bucks if you were picking one up for your PC.

Not so much:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... 0-%20200GB

Over half (and some are 200 gb) are under 100, and one is 55 bucks for a 160 gig. $179 for a 120 is a fuggin ripoff in the highest degree. You're paying for the interface, which is a joke. Just allow us to use USB drives and everything would be dandy.

Nozzleman_216 · Post by **Nozzleman_216** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:04 am

Yea DB, I agree with you on this one, its crazy!!! I am going to have to pass on this one now. I was somewhat looking forward to it for mainly the new chip and to be quite honest the black is nice looking. HDMI does not benefit me at all. To me, it only truly benefits those with 1080p tv. I guess it would be OK as it eliminates some cables, BUT I still have to get some sound to my AV receiver. The hard drive space would be nice but I am not sure I really need it. It just pisses me off because I remember everyone bitching to MS about the 20gb when it was announced and they said "20 s PLENTY" Oh well. I guess this may drive me to buy a PS3 even more and not another 360.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:37 am

They had a report on CNBC about the Elite. Peter Moore was emphasizing the video downloads you can buy and copy to the bigger drive.

They said MS expects the Elite to be 10% of their total shipments.

So it's for the niche who wants to download a lot of videos from the marketplace, kind of like an AppleTV product.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:33 am

The HDMI is a plus but why MS didn't make a HD-DVD drive with the Elite?

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:41 am

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:05 am

wco81 wrote:They had a report on CNBC about the Elite. Peter Moore was emphasizing the video downloads you can buy and copy to the bigger drive.

They said MS expects the Elite to be 10% of their total shipments.

So it's for the niche who wants to download a lot of videos from the marketplace, kind of like an AppleTV product.

What about the niche that wants to take advantage of the expected reliability advantages of the new chip? For a console that has suffered from such poor reliability, I would think that niche might be as big than the one that wants to download movies.

Take care,
PK

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:15 am

Probably because this model is meant to push their video downloads, not HD-DVD movies.

Curious thing too is whether the add-on HD-DVD drive would use the HDMI port on this model or whether you would still have to use component.

One of the things about new copy protection technologies is that the whole chain from the drive to the video output is suppose to be secure, beyond access of the user.

So with an external drive connected by USB, will AACS consider the whole chain secure?

The key thing with this SKU is, they're using the same chips so the real upgrade may come later, with cooler, maybe more reliable chips and designs.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:19 am

Ok and I'm not trying to defend MS here as I feel a little burned too. But I know this post will come off this way.

The HD you linked to DB are not small form factor, self powered drives. At least not the ones that came up for me. I just bought a 120gig WD passport, which I would consider a similar size, self powered drive. That ran me $119. So is the MS drive still over priced, yeah it is. But some people are saying they could get 2 120 gigs drives for that price, and the answer to that is sure, if you're talking internal IDE drives.

Second, I read the official articles, and listened to the blog cast. Not once did I hear mention of a new cooler chip being used by anyone at MS. But lets assume they did use it, they would also be using it in the premiums and cores, which despite rumor aren't going away. The quieter drive is already in the newest "chill" models.

HDMI, great it looks the exact same as component. Why is it in there, because if they didn't people would b*tch. Unless you have an HDMI capable receiver, who really gives a s*** about hdmi.

HD-DVD - People want this included now. We slammed Sony for how long for not giving us a choice. But now we slam MS for giving us a choice and not including it. Plus who would put a built in HD-DVD in their system now, in case no one noticed they are losing to Blue Ray.

To all who are screaming about their system being obsolete and they should give us an upgrade. I say welcome to the world of Apple. do you own and iPod, I have had 3 in my lifetime and all of them were obsolete within a year, in some cases less then 6 months. No one cares when Apple uses this endless cycle of new products at high prices, but somehow people expect big bad MS to give us a break. Geesh.

Microsoft had to deliver a new drive for the IPTV and Marketplace video. So they took the opportunity to release a 3rd sku in the 360 line. But this isn't an upgrade, and doesn't kill your current system It's juts another choice for the end user. If you're about to buy a 360, for $80 more you can get an extra 100 gigs and HDMI. I won't replacem y current system, but if I was buying new I would consider the new model.

As wco its a niche model, and if we're lucky it will result in a price drop on the other models in the next several months.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:00 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote: Just allow us to use USB drives and everything would be dandy.

Throw away a revenue stream?..MS?..Not in our life times.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:18 pm

XXXIV wrote:
dbdynsty25 wrote: Just allow us to use USB drives and everything would be dandy.
Throw away a revenue stream?..MS?..Not in our life times.

Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the HD content protected? An in order for it to be protected they couldn't just give you an off the shelf option for a HD. From my understanding MS buy the HD in bulk and then they do "their thing" to them. I was led to believe this is the reason MS is the only place offering downloaded HD movies and shows. I don't know enough about it to know if it is true, but that is what i read.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:38 pm

Apparently there will be another big announcement tonight from MS on something. Not sure if it will be 360 related or not. Rumors are flying on everything from MS buying Take Two to a Pink Zune

Anyway look for it tonight like 9 pacific time.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:16 pm

I don't think the Elite is the right direction to go, it isn't like Microsoft needs the XBox to appeal more to the hardcore crowd.

Will the HDMI output allow either the 360s DVD drive or HD-DVD add-on upscale regular DVDs?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:27 pm

Can I play NASCAR Racing 2003 Season on the Elite? If not, I'll pass.

Take care,
PK

Nozzleman_216 · Post by **Nozzleman_216** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:28 pm

I thought it was really funny listening to MajorNelson's podcast when Albert basically said the new unit catered to the masses that bitched about no HDMI and a small HDD from the beginning and now they are crying still. He also pointed out that HDMI was basically to satisfy those of us at AVS LOL. SO TRUE!

If you listen to the podcast you will hear some very valid points as to WHY they are doing what they are. Of course to US the consumer we see it as greed but most of it makes sense. And after today I changed my whole attitude on the issue. I think they are doing a hell of a job and are TRYING to please everyone, and with 3 sku's they should pretty much get the job done.

So do I agree with the new ELITE...not really, but it is what it is. I am happy with what I have and who knows I may get one (the wife said she likes the black LOL)

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:53 pm

wco81 wrote:They had a report on CNBC about the Elite. Peter Moore was emphasizing the video downloads you can buy and copy to the bigger drive.

They said MS expects the Elite to be 10% of their total shipments.

So it's for the niche who wants to download a lot of videos from the marketplace, kind of like an AppleTV product.

Did someone say Apple?

My obligatory post.

My Apple TV arrived last Friday and it's a great little box. The movies are fine (better than the XBox360 if only because you can buy them and they don't EXPIRE - I already paid $12 for 2 movies on XBL that expired before I finished watching them), but the Apple TV is best for Podcasts, Photos and Home movies. If only there was a Video DigitalSportspage Podcast.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 9:13 pm

I doubt it matters what hard drive you use to store copy-protected movie downloads.

They probably use the same file system as Windows XP and Vista.

The DRM wrapper is on the movie file itself, not anything in the hard drive.

I think MS learned a lesson from the Xbox that they could minimize losses on hardware by selling peripherals for higher margins.

That is what the pricing indicates and IIRC, they set some policy which makes it harder for third-party peripheral makers to underprice them on X360 peripherals.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Wed Mar 28, 2007 11:14 pm

Sport73 wrote:
wco81 wrote:They had a report on CNBC about the Elite. Peter Moore was emphasizing the video downloads you can buy and copy to the bigger drive.

They said MS expects the Elite to be 10% of their total shipments.

So it's for the niche who wants to download a lot of videos from the marketplace, kind of like an AppleTV product.
Did someone say Apple?

My obligatory post.

My Apple TV arrived last Friday and it's a great little box. The movies are fine (better than the XBox360 if only because you can buy them and they don't EXPIRE - I already paid $12 for 2 movies on XBL that expired before I finished watching them), but the Apple TV is best for Podcasts, Photos and Home movies. If only there was a Video DigitalSportspage Podcast.

I've heard rumors talking about Apple trying to enter the gaming arena with a gaming option of their own. Could the AppleTV box possibly stream games from your cpu (thru iTunes) or the system itself could hold a few? Sure they wouldn't be anywhere near the quality of a 360 or PS3 game but they could at least be XBLA quality.

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:39 am

Sony to make a bigger HD PS3?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/2007032 ... _8okkjtBAF

Sport73 · Post by **Sport73** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 11:26 am

macsomjrr wrote:
I've heard rumors talking about Apple trying to enter the gaming arena with a gaming option of their own. Could the AppleTV box possibly stream games from your cpu (thru iTunes) or the system itself could hold a few? Sure they wouldn't be anywhere near the quality of a 360 or PS3 game but they could at least be XBLA quality.

It's technically possible, and there are a lot of expectations that it will happen, that the Apple TV could act as a 'Remote Display' for everything happening on your Mac. However, I think the controls latency would make gaming that depends upon your PC/Mac's processing power impossible/impractical.

I expect that IF the Apple TV takes on gaming functions, it will be simple arcade classics and such, the same things currently built for the iPod.

Airdog · Post by **Airdog** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:28 pm

Danimal wrote:Apparently there will be another big announcement tonight from MS on something. Not sure if it will be 360 related or not. Rumors are flying on everything from MS buying Take Two to a Pink Zune

Anyway look for it tonight like 9 pacific time.

The GTA 4 trailer goes live tonight, maybe it's related to that?

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 1:14 pm

Airdog wrote:
Danimal wrote:Apparently there will be another big announcement tonight from MS on something. Not sure if it will be 360 related or not. Rumors are flying on everything from MS buying Take Two to a Pink Zune

Anyway look for it tonight like 9 pacific time.
The GTA 4 trailer goes live tonight, maybe it's related to that?

Nah it was for some mobile web browser or something.

I'm seriously considering getting AppleTV, I just wish it was about $100 cheaper, I don't think it's worth what they are asking.

macsomjrr · Post by **macsomjrr** » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:49 pm

If you've got a nice TV set-up it is worth it.

kevinpars · Post by **kevinpars** » Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:53 am

You know, at first the idea of MS charging $179 for a larger hard drive did not really bother me - especially since it does not affect me in the least since I have never come close to filling my 20 gig drive. But the more I think about it, the more I think that MS is biting the hand that feeds them. The people who most want the larger hard drive are the people who have gone full force into the digital media downloads and want the space for all of the movies they rent and TV shows that they buy. I would think that MS would be better off taking a loss on the hardware and making it up with the digital media sales/rentals.

The longer this battle for the next generation goes on, the more I feel like MS is not taking advantage of their lead. It is like when a baseball team loads the bases with no outs and only scores one run. You just get the feeling that later in the game they will be wishing they had done more when they had the chance.