JackDog wrote:
Is Bonds an asshole? Yes. Do I mind? Not really.
I will say this about Bonds.
His steroids are so much better than anyone elses.
He was the best player before everyone started juicing...was an HOF lock before his head grew 2-3xs.
If you check his numbers, before he became suspected of steriods, he was no where close to being the best player in baseball (not counting the early Pirate days). He appeared to be a great player who was entering the downside of his career. His production was starting to diminish, when all of a sudden you have a guy who had not hit 40 homers in a year hit 73. Coincidence? Unlikely.
But I'd agree his steriods must be much better, because, even if dirty, it is still kind of impressive. McGwire never hit .370.
NoJoke wrote:If you check his numbers, before he became suspected of steriods, he was no where close to being the best player in baseball (not counting the early Pirate days). He appeared to be a great player who was entering the downside of his career. His production was starting to diminish, when all of a sudden you have a guy who had not hit 40 homers in a year hit 73. Coincidence? Unlikely.
Hell, I don't even know where to start with this, but this may help:
For the record, Bonds hit 40 HRs 4 times before he hit 73. I was also pretty impressed with those 30/30 seasons (and a 40/40), .400-.450 OBP, 5 gold gloves, and 5 silver slugger awards between his Pittsburgh and record breaking year as well. There's really not a season of Bonds' career starting in 1990 that he wasn't considered one of the top 5 players in baseball IMO.
s*** take a look at the before and after the 99 seasons. Just looking at his stats tells you something is up.
Look at the drop-off of SBs. He was never lower 29 in his meaningful years, steals 28 in 98 then that drops off drastically. He batted .336 in '93 with the Pirates which was his highest until after '99 where he goes 370, 340, 362. His slugging percentage never cleared .700 once then in the last four seasons he's hovering around .800.
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JRod wrote:s*** take a look at the before and after the 99 seasons. Just looking at his stats tells you something is up.
No doubt. That's when his production really took off. However, he was already one of the best players in the game at that point and had been for most of his career.
It's a damn shame too. I loved watching him play. I can tell my grandkids I saw him play dozens of times in person, but it won't mean the same anymore.
No Joke dude?
Now you gonna make Me defend Bonds????
Instead of talking about it....Why dont you look at the stats.
He was going to be the only 500 HR 500 SB player in history before he needled...
Hate all day boy...but use your brain and dont invent stats.
Yeah, my sentence about the 40 homers needed to be edited. After I typed it, I thought to myself, I know what I am trying to say, but I don't think that sentence made any sense. I was just too lazy to go back and edit it.
I knew he had hit 40 a bunch of time (plus the 40-40 deal). I thought it had been a while since he had done it. I guess I should have said a guy who never hit 50 then goes to 73. That was really my point. But I realize he had great numbers, I thought he was slowing down and then shot to the moon.
Bonds has supposedly tested clean four times this season so we have to assume he's off the juice now. His current hot streak would be impressive for any player, but for a 41 year old who hasn't played all season, it's really remarkable.
sfz_T-car wrote:Bonds has supposedly tested clean four times this season so we have to assume he's off the juice now. His current hot streak would be impressive for any player, but for a 41 year old who hasn't played all season, it's really remarkable.
Actually, The stuff he was on still can't be tested by the MLB steriod policy. HGH can only be found in a blood test and we know MLB only does urine tests. Thus, HGH is widely used by the MLB players because it can't be tested.
sfz_T-car wrote:Bonds has supposedly tested clean four times this season so we have to assume he's off the juice now. His current hot streak would be impressive for any player, but for a 41 year old who hasn't played all season, it's really remarkable.
I'm not saying he is still on something, but unfortunately, testing clean and not being on something are two different things. Hell, they still don't test for HGH. There are rumors swirling that Giambi might still be using them, since he was supposedly using them before. And who knows if the next THG is already out and in use? Nobody could detect any of that before. Quite a few athletes have used the "I've never tested positive" alibi, when it was well known that there were no effective tests to detect the drugs they were suspected of using at that time.
Again, I'm not pointing any fingers here. It's just unfortunate that this cloud of suspicion is here and will remain here as long as the scientists can remain ahead of the labs and athletes are willing to take drugs.
In a related story, there was a surfer who was banned from competition for a year and stripped of his points for testing positive for 3 different steroids. Damn!! It has made its way into surfing now! And Barry thinks it's not a big deal...
All of these high priced athletes that kept testing negative for steroids is a joke.
These guys have more money than they know what to do with so they can afford stuff that the rest of us can't. Stuff that can't be detected...stuff that no one has heard of outside of the lab it was created in. Nothing is going to change that...the athletes will ALWAYS be ahead of the testers and that is a constant. The games will never be clean. Just accept it and move on. If you are only a fan of a 'level' playing field...start watching chess. Right now, sports is all about who can cheat the best without getting caught. It's pretty funny that it's mostly no-names getting caught with the 'roids. They can't afford the good stuff yet...like the Bonds, Giambis and the rest of em. There really is no debating that.
wco81 wrote:Bonds may be cheating but it's interesting the reactions here between charges against Bonds and charges against Armstrong.
I'm sure the fact that Bonds is a total dick (people that actually know him will call him much worse names) and has admitted to using steroids has something to do with it.
wco81 wrote:AFAIK, he supposedly said he used some kind of cream in the leaked grand jury testimony but he didn't identify it as steroids.
If he had admitted knowingly using steroids, wouldn't there be an indictment?
Not to mention the MLB taking action.
Do assholes get due process in the court of public opinion?
And what is worse, being an upfront asshole like Bonds? Or being a stealthy asshole like Armstrong?
The MLB never intended to retroactively punish people for taking steroids. I believe that part of getting a new testing agreement in place with the MLBPA was to go forward, not backward.
Second, did Bonds admit to "knowingly" using steroids? I don't remember exactly what he said. If he said "I used sterioids but didn't know it at the time," I don't think he can really be subjected to legal action. Palmiero's case was different because he denied it under oath then tested positive, which could be considered perjury.
Finally, give up the race-baiting comparison. Armstrong has not admitted to cheating. He has not been caught cheating. And while his performance has been extradordinary, he didn't go through the kind of physical changes that Bonds, McGwire, and others showed that were tell-tale signs of steroids or HGH.
Bonds has been under the microscope all of this season and at least the last season (when, in spring training, he dared the MLB to test him every day).
If he's still been using this season and the season before, with all this attention, he's either reckless or has some gall.
You would think he stopped using. Yet he's still big (not like the rumors of McGuire losing tons of weight within months of retiring) and so far at least, his performance hasn't degraded.
But I didn't want to get into whether he still uses. Like I said, it's the reaction here that's telling. Every benefit of the doubt to Armstrong (maybe because his accusers are foreign) but Bonds should be in the stockade already as a public reminder about the evils of cheating.
wco81 wrote:But I didn't want to get into whether he still uses. Like I said, it's the reaction here that's telling. Every benefit of the doubt to Armstrong (maybe because his accusers are foreign) but Bonds should be in the stockade already as a public reminder about the evils of cheating.
Or maybe it's because Armstrong is the most heavily tested athlete in the world and they have yet to legitimately link him to anything. L'equipe is not legitimate to me, especially 6 years later. It has nothing to do with black or white...it's because Bonds is basically taunting us, knowing that he's got something that no one else has...and that no one can test for. That's what it seems like anyway.
Last edited by dbdynsty25 on Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For months Bonds has denied ever using illegal steroids, but in Grand Jury testimony during the BALCO investigation, Bonds admitted to using two substances believed to possibly be 'the cream' and 'the clear,' two anabolic steroids.
