NCAA 06 & the passing game

[Zeppo]

I love the passing game in NCAA06. It's defnintely not anything close to broken.

Leebo: The L stick is used to lead the pass in any of the 4 main directions, or 8 I guess. IMO, it's a lot better than the same thing in 2K football, since it's much less extreme and much less twitchy. I lead guys on crossing routes a lot, you can push it pretty far without it being too far. Sometimes on the deep balls, I'll lead over the top, but on those balls what's more important than anything is pass strength. On the deep balls, you really want to tap that thing for the shortest possible time, that puts a ton of air under the ball.

In fact, pass strength is huge in the EA football games, and there are a lot of pass-strength levels. Pass strength combined with the L stick are key elements to being in control of the passing.

Timing is key as well. I've found on the play action passes, that a throw in rhythm is far more effective than a late throw, and sometimes I'll even throw blindly, but if the rhythm is right it will work out. It's not as bad as 2K football, where my experience was if I threw the ball with the right timing, no matter the coverage I had a great chance of completion, but if I was too late after the QB bounce, chances of completion fell off a cliff. In the EA games and NCAA06, timing will help a lot, but it's not the panacea it was in 2K; that is, if a guy is well covered, he's well covered, or if you have to wait that extra second for him to clear a coverage area (and can stay upright that extra second), you can make that more open throw.

In NCAA06, I've seen a number of times when receivers will be run off their routes. A defender may take away the inside, for example, and if the receiver is on an in route, he may never really make the cut. You might see him doing some Mario running into the defender. Sometimes if the protection is good, I can wait this out and when he pops free he will have good separation and be open, but usually that receiver is out of the play. Sometimes on a post route, the defender may take away the inside, and there you won't have the Mario action, but it will not be a completion.

Separation in NCAA06 is tough to see until you get used to it; it's pretty small. Sometimes a guy is open just becuase he's got good position on the defender, like the big TE has the LB on his back. Leading him a little will help keep that defender from reaching around and knocking it down. No question, mismatches are there to be exploited; a star TE or FB on a mere mortal LB, a WR on an LB or a crappy DB; a slot WR on a Strong Safety; I mean, a lot of the DBs for most teams are bad compared to the WRs they are covering, keep that in mind. This ain't the NFL, folks.

I love in NCAA06 that I can drop balls with perfect touch right between the LBs and safeties in a zone. The touch has to be just right, but it's not impossible to drop it in the bucket the way it was in 05. Timing and touch are the key. Sometimes if I see a tall TE or WR on a smaller defender, I can lob that thing for a jump-ball; sometimes on a slant I can throw it soooo hard right over the head of an LB who won't have time to react.

On deep throws, for me it's all about the safeties. If I'm running a play fake, and that safety comes up to cover the running back or TE, then I know right away the WR will have one-on-one coverage. A quick decision (this is key) to lob that pass (the quickest little tap of the button) over the top on the fly route, then become the guy (but don't move the stick or hit any button - just let the CPU control him while the icon is on him until I get my bearings), a little stick moving, maybe speed burst, a well-timed Y button, and it's a big play. Most times a big WR will have an advantage over the DB in a one-on-one. On D, it's all about getting in the right place, trying to get that position and keep the WR away from the ball, and maybe a speed burst, but definitely an early L trigger to knock that thing down.

Leebo: YES it is ALWAYS a good idea to become the receiver and hit the Y button. If you lay off all sticks and buttons, just tapping the B button will make you become the guy, but the CPU will still control him until you make a move. Usually for me, that move is just a Y button. Sometimes it's a stupid move of the L stick, and he drops the ball. On deep ball, I usually end up moving him one way or the other to get better position and then the Y.

Zones give me a lot of trouble in this game, much more than man coverage. But I am getting a LOT better against the zones. The key is the timing of the throw so the receiver is just making his cut into the space between zones. I find a monumental difference between being covered by one guy and being sandwiched between a cover guy and help, like on deep balls when the safeties are back there. Really tough to drop one in the bucket there. But if a big TE is running an out and has an LB half a step behind, then he's open.

I do like the pass skeleton a lot, but I don't like how you can't let the CPU control the receiver once you hit the B button. In that drill, you have to control him the moment you become him, so I end up becoming the guy really, really late or not at all in that drill. But the drill helps a ton in learning better timing, pass strength etc. The legible feedback on each rep is the key there: "appropriate pass strength" anywhere from 20pts. to 50pts., depending on how appropriate; "good timing" again in degrees, etc.

But I like better the practice mode, with the 'random play in this formation' option. I've gotten a ton better with the passing game just from doing reps of random plays in a given formation (against random Ds in a matched up D formation) in practice mode. Practice mode is awesome for experimenting with touch, leading balls with the L stick, learning how to catch, etc. etc. etc, not to mention working on escapability, throwing on the run, etc. Love practice mode.

It's not broken. If I can do it, there's no way it's broken. It has its own little attributes of timing and what is an open guy and all that, but once you start to see it it will come around.

[dbdynsty25]

Don't you work Zeppo? I may have a million and a half posts, but they are short...every one of your 2500+ have been novels. Sheesh.

[pk500]

I agree with Badgun wholeheartedly. What's wrong with public sliders? They can save a game for some people or they can form a nice foundation from which you tune the game to your liking.

Yes, there are people at OS who toss numbers into a hat, pull them out and make sliders based on them, play them for one game and post, "Check out these AWESOME ROXXORS sliders!"

Guys like Jistic, Playmakers and Bill Abner aren't like that. They obviously put a lot of time and thought into their sliders. Jistic has been doing sliders forever for a lot of games, so I trust the work and smarts he puts into them.

That said, some public sliders may not work for people. They're not the magic bullet because the creators may play different than you or have better or worse skills than you.

Take Jistic's NCAA 06 sliders, for example. I tried them at All-American and saw how they created a very nice game, in theory. But reality is that my skills aren't up to A-A snuff like nearly all of you guys. I'm just not that good at videogame football, not at all. I'll be the first to admit that.

On a whim, I tried Jistic's sliders at Varsity, and the game was transformed for me. Realistic passing and running numbers, excellent play balance, realistic scores, etc., etc.

Jistic's sliders at Varsity in NCAA 06 rival those of Grog for NHL 2K5 at the All-Star level for me: They've made a very good game damn near perfect. But they're damn near perfect FOR ME. They probably won't work for everyone, especially those who are much better than me, which basically is most of the world.

But bottom line is that a tiny experiment with Jistic's sliders created an immensely enjoyable, seemingly realistic football game for me this year. I'm having an absolute blast with NCAA 06 on the Varsity level with Jistic's sliders, and I make no apologies for it. So I think the "slider guys" deserve praise, not scorn. They do help some people.

If you don't like or believe in the "slider guys," then ignore them. But don't dismiss their efforts. Guys like Jistic, Playmakers and Bill Abner really do work hard on this stuff, and there seems to be both football and game design knowledge behind their decisions.

Take care,
PK

[Zeppo]

Don't you work Zeppo? I may have a million and a half posts, but they are short...every one of your 2500+ have been novels. Sheesh.

I think I started that one about an hour and a half ago; they come in bits and pieces!

[ScoopBrady]

I have no problems with public sliders but I think people go to them way to early. NCAA is a game that needs to be learned. There are no problems with the passing game out of the box, there's a problem with everyone playing it. The first week I had the game I'd be lucky to complete 40-50% of my passes and throw less than 3 picks a game. After spending a lot of time with it and hitting the Pass Skeleton drills and the practice field I understand passing now. I consistently complete 50-60% of my passes on default sliders and might throw 1 pick a game. I'll have the occasional bad game passing the ball but that happens on the field too.

I hope this doesn't come off as a "You just suck" post because that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm trying to say that this game needs to be learned. The passing game is radically different this year from past EA football games. I really enjoy the passing game this year. QB's complete 50-60% of their passes, not 70-80%.

I guess people aren't willing to wait anymore and want to jump immediately into messing with the sliders. IMO sliders shouldn't be touched in a game until you've put a solid 2 weeks into the game.

[Leebo33]

I guess people aren't willing to wait anymore and want to jump immediately into messing with the sliders. IMO sliders shouldn't be touched in a game until you've put a solid 2 weeks into the game.

You pretty much described me. I really can't wait two weeks for each game to start a season. In the typical cycle, I will buy at least Madden, NCAA Football, NHL 2Kx, Winning Eleven, College Hoops, Live, MVP, etc. If I spent 2 weeks at each game playing on default settings, then that is half the year just playing on default. Since default settings rarely give me the realism I want (except WE), I'd only have half the year to actually play seasons *and* find the right sliders.

It works much better for me if I cut down the "default" gaming to a few days and then start a season and adjust sliders as I go. 9 times out of 10 that works for me, especially for games with longer seasons as everything usually evens out. I started a season in ESPN Baseball last season with medium pitch speed and by the end I was playing with real speeds and harder sliders. It's tough in a football game because the seasons are short and some of the sliders in NCAA really don't work at all.

[pk500]

Scoop:

I see where you're coming from. I played on default for a while before I touched sliders -- I always try to give the default game the benefit of the doubt.

My problem was the CPU's excessive success with the long ball. Part of that is due to my ineptitude, but I also think the long ball is pretty successful at default. Jistic's sliders fixed that -- for me.

I also wanted the CPU to be able to run more effectively, and Jistic's sliders fixed that -- for me.

I'm passing at around 35-40 percent with Jistic's sliders in my Syracuse dynasty. But I attribute that as much to the correctly rated Perry Patterson as SU QB, as he sucks in real life, too, as I do my ineptitude. If I play a standalone game with a good QB and Jistic's sliders, I complete a lot more passes than with Patterson.

I think both the player and team rating in NCAA 06 is uncanny at times. I can't tell you how many times Patterson has overthrown a receiver while rolling out in my Dynasty and I've said, "Man, he does the EXACT same thing in reality!"

Take care,
PK

[Inuyasha]

I love the passing game in NCAA06. It's defnintely not anything close to broken.

Leebo: The L stick is used to lead the pass in any of the 4 main directions, or 8 I guess. IMO, it's a lot better than the same thing in 2K football, since it's much less extreme and much less twitchy. I lead guys on crossing routes a lot, you can push it pretty far without it being too far. Sometimes on the deep balls, I'll lead over the top, but on those balls what's more important than anything is pass strength. On the deep balls, you really want to tap that thing for the shortest possible time, that puts a ton of air under the ball.

In fact, pass strength is huge in the EA football games, and there are a lot of pass-strength levels. Pass strength combined with the L stick are key elements to being in control of the passing.

Timing is key as well. I've found on the play action passes, that a throw in rhythm is far more effective than a late throw, and sometimes I'll even throw blindly, but if the rhythm is right it will work out. It's not as bad as 2K football, where my experience was if I threw the ball with the right timing, no matter the coverage I had a great chance of completion, but if I was too late after the QB bounce, chances of completion fell off a cliff. In the EA games and NCAA06, timing will help a lot, but it's not the panacea it was in 2K; that is, if a guy is well covered, he's well covered, or if you have to wait that extra second for him to clear a coverage area (and can stay upright that extra second), you can make that more open throw.

In NCAA06, I've seen a number of times when receivers will be run off their routes. A defender may take away the inside, for example, and if the receiver is on an in route, he may never really make the cut. You might see him doing some Mario running into the defender. Sometimes if the protection is good, I can wait this out and when he pops free he will have good separation and be open, but usually that receiver is out of the play. Sometimes on a post route, the defender may take away the inside, and there you won't have the Mario action, but it will not be a completion.

Separation in NCAA06 is tough to see until you get used to it; it's pretty small. Sometimes a guy is open just becuase he's got good position on the defender, like the big TE has the LB on his back. Leading him a little will help keep that defender from reaching around and knocking it down. No question, mismatches are there to be exploited; a star TE or FB on a mere mortal LB, a WR on an LB or a crappy DB; a slot WR on a Strong Safety; I mean, a lot of the DBs for most teams are bad compared to the WRs they are covering, keep that in mind. This ain't the NFL, folks.

I love in NCAA06 that I can drop balls with perfect touch right between the LBs and safeties in a zone. The touch has to be just right, but it's not impossible to drop it in the bucket the way it was in 05. Timing and touch are the key. Sometimes if I see a tall TE or WR on a smaller defender, I can lob that thing for a jump-ball; sometimes on a slant I can throw it soooo hard right over the head of an LB who won't have time to react.

On deep throws, for me it's all about the safeties. If I'm running a play fake, and that safety comes up to cover the running back or TE, then I know right away the WR will have one-on-one coverage. A quick decision (this is key) to lob that pass (the quickest little tap of the button) over the top on the fly route, then become the guy (but don't move the stick or hit any button - just let the CPU control him while the icon is on him until I get my bearings), a little stick moving, maybe speed burst, a well-timed Y button, and it's a big play. Most times a big WR will have an advantage over the DB in a one-on-one. On D, it's all about getting in the right place, trying to get that position and keep the WR away from the ball, and maybe a speed burst, but definitely an early L trigger to knock that thing down.

Leebo: YES it is ALWAYS a good idea to become the receiver and hit the Y button. If you lay off all sticks and buttons, just tapping the B button will make you become the guy, but the CPU will still control him until you make a move. Usually for me, that move is just a Y button. Sometimes it's a stupid move of the L stick, and he drops the ball. On deep ball, I usually end up moving him one way or the other to get better position and then the Y.

Zones give me a lot of trouble in this game, much more than man coverage. But I am getting a LOT better against the zones. The key is the timing of the throw so the receiver is just making his cut into the space between zones. I find a monumental difference between being covered by one guy and being sandwiched between a cover guy and help, like on deep balls when the safeties are back there. Really tough to drop one in the bucket there. But if a big TE is running an out and has an LB half a step behind, then he's open.

I do like the pass skeleton a lot, but I don't like how you can't let the CPU control the receiver once you hit the B button. In that drill, you have to control him the moment you become him, so I end up becoming the guy really, really late or not at all in that drill. But the drill helps a ton in learning better timing, pass strength etc. The legible feedback on each rep is the key there: "appropriate pass strength" anywhere from 20pts. to 50pts., depending on how appropriate; "good timing" again in degrees, etc.

But I like better the practice mode, with the 'random play in this formation' option. I've gotten a ton better with the passing game just from doing reps of random plays in a given formation (against random Ds in a matched up D formation) in practice mode. Practice mode is awesome for experimenting with touch, leading balls with the L stick, learning how to catch, etc. etc. etc, not to mention working on escapability, throwing on the run, etc. Love practice mode.

It's not broken. If I can do it, there's no way it's broken. It has its own little attributes of timing and what is an open guy and all that, but once you start to see it it will come around.

That was a really good post. It took me a week to get use to the passing in this game. I think they really did a good job trying to make the game more realistic this year with some enhancements they made that zeppo pointed out. You really have to take advantage of mismatches in this game this year.

[Leebo33]

Yeah, there is a lot of great info. here. I don't think the passing game is broken either. I am the one that is broken

[JRod]

I can get over my frustration with the passing. What I can't get over is how inept, the CPU is at passing. I'm tired of having games like Wyoming V Florida and Leak go 16-42 for 300 yards.

If I'm an average team playing USC, then they should be 20-30 for 300 or something like that. Not have a below 50% completion. I've played ND v Pitt like 6 games now and its always the same song and dance.

Like Abner said, why is a 7 yard pass harder to complete than a 57 yard pass?

[Dave]

JRod, I do feel your frustration there.

Do you guys using Jistic's sliders notice an improvement in the CPU's ability to complete short and mid-length passes?

And one other thing about the passing game--I love running the HB screen.

[bdoughty]

Like Abner said, why is a 7 yard pass harder to complete than a 57 yard pass?

For me it isn't. It is all about timing and reading the defense. Sure you hit a few bombs every now and then. It is a video game, perfection is not attainable. If this drives you nuts here is a solution. Pick an option team and limit the deep ball to running play action passes a couple times per game. Problem solved, realism is saved and the added plus that the option is a blast to run in this years game.

Once again why not PRACTICE getting better at the game then spending hours trying to create a perfect slider set?

You don't want to be like...



YES YOU


As for the public sliders I harken back to Ferris Bueller when he quotes John Lennon.

"I don't belive in public sliders, I just believe in me."

[Inuyasha]

It must be the different style of game each person plays.

For me, the , "why is a 7 yard pass harder to complete than a 57 yard pass?" never applied in ncaa2006.

Since day 1 and even now, I still have problems completing deep passes. Thats how I improved my passing game, by not passing deep that often and looking more for the underneath stuff. The deep passes have always resulted in a lot of int's for me.

I play with a various amount of teams in their own dynasties but deep passes have been a problem for me with a team like USC to a team like ND.

[bdunn13]

Like Abner said, why is a 7 yard pass harder to complete than a 57 yard pass?

For me it isn't. It is all about timing and reading the defense. Sure you hit a few bombs every now and then. It is a video game, perfection is not attainable. If this drives you nuts here is a solution. Pick an option team and limit the deep ball to running play action passes a couple times per game. Problem solved, realism is saved and the added plus that the option is a blast to run in this years game.

Once again why not PRACTICE getting better at the game then spending hours trying to create a perfect slider set?

You don't want to be like...



YES YOU


As for the public sliders I harken back to Ferris Bueller when he quotes John Lennon.

"I don't belive in public sliders, I just believe in me."

Very well said. However, many people feel empowered by coming to a message board, complaining about something and having others agree with them.... I do believe some people get a sense of self worth this way.

I like to compare video games to movies.... You need to play a video game around 15 hours to get your money's worth when compared to a movie.

In my day, I have seen TONS of bad movies yet I have never been to a message board to complain about any of them.... That would be just stupid wouldn't it?

I just forget about the movie, cut my losses and try and do something that I enjoy or something to improve myself. No matter how much time I spend trying to complain about the movie, it would not make it better in my eyes, so why bother?

BD

[Badgun]

JRod, I do feel your frustration there.

Do you guys using Jistic's sliders notice an improvement in the CPU's ability to complete short and mid-length passes?

And one other thing about the passing game--I love running the HB screen.

I think for some reason that you'll see more short and medium passes. I know I haven't seen the CPU throw near as many bombs using Jistic's sliders.

[bdoughty]

Using that theory and Ben Affleck as the movie barmoeter

NCAA 2005 is




NCAA 2006 is

[pk500]

JRod, I do feel your frustration there.

Do you guys using Jistic's sliders notice an improvement in the CPU's ability to complete short and mid-length passes?

And one other thing about the passing game--I love running the HB screen.

I think for some reason that you'll see more short and medium passes. I know I haven't seen the CPU throw near as many bombs using Jistic's sliders.

I've found the same thing as Badgun using Jistic's sliders on Varsity.

Take care,
PK

[Leebo33]

I like to compare video games to movies.... You need to play a video game around 15 hours to get your money's worth when compared to a movie.

In my day, I have seen TONS of bad movies yet I have never been to a message board to complain about any of them.... That would be just stupid wouldn't it?

I just forget about the movie, cut my losses and try and do something that I enjoy or something to improve myself. No matter how much time I spend trying to complain about the movie, it would not make it better in my eyes, so why bother?

I think you'd see a lot more posting on message boards if movies were $50 instead of $5-10. Let's take it to the extreme. I have had a couple bad cars in my life, but I've never posted on a message board. The reason why I post on a message board about bad games (for the record I do not think NCAA 06 is a bad game at all) is because...well, this is a video game message board. It would be REAL boring if people didn't post about their experiences and ways to try to make it better. In fact, I probably wouldn't even bother reading the board if all people did was post likes and not dislikes.

[Brando70]

Using that theory and Ben Affleck as the movie barmoeter

NCAA 2005 is




NCAA 2006 is

Both of those movies are heinous pieces of celluloid ass, but for completely different reasons. And at least Gigli is unintentionally funny at times, compared to the two-hour Aerosmith video that is Armageddon.

[bdoughty]

Well I enjoyed Armageddon.

I would have inserted one of the Kevin Smith movies like MallRats, Chasing Amy or Dogma that had Affleck but figured many had not seen them.

[bdunn13]

Leebo33,

I know I am taking this thread further and further away from its intended topic.

However, I would argue movies are much much more expensive than video games(except for those of us smart enough to use netflix) per hour of entertainment.

[dbdynsty25]

Well I enjoyed Armageddon.

I would have inserted one of the Kevin Smith movies like MallRats, Chasing Amy or Dogma that had Affleck but figured many had not seen them.

Except those three movies are all AWESOME! If you haven't seen those, you need to.

[ubrakto]

I can't speak for the PS2, but on the Xbox using default AA sliders it *is far* easier for me to throw deep, over-the-top passes into one-on-one coverage and get a completion than it is to hit an open guy on a 7-yard pass crossing over the middle thanks to frequent drops. And drops are 100% the biggest pet peeve I can have with a football game. They should be a part of the game, but the fun factor for me is out the window if it's over the top as it was with NCAA 2005, NFL2k3(?), etc. I'm still hoping that between just playing better and slider/difficulty tweaks that I can tolerate NCAA 2006 without setting it aside in disgust.

Last night I maxed out the Hands slider to 99 and played Michigan vs. Central Michigan and had eight drops. Eight. Four by my two primary wide receivers who have Catch ratings of 89 and 91 and both were flat-out open. Having a problem with that kind of occurence isn't nitpicking the game, it's a legit concern. No uncontensted pass should ever be dropped if you have a catch slider maxed out. Ever. Otherwise why have the slider? Near as I can figure that slider makes zero difference in an AI player's ability to catch the ball.

On my lunch break I headed over to OS and printed out Jistic's slider codes/settings. Couldn't hurt to give them a try. I may even go the PK rout and try them out on Varsity. Couldn't hurt, anyway. There's a lot to like in this game, but if I keep having 8+ uncontested drops per game I'll end up setting it aside as soon as Madden hits.

And hell yeah, if I've gotta watch Aflleck for two hours, it better be in a Kevin Smith movie.
---Todd

[Inuyasha]

I can't speak for the PS2, but on the Xbox using default AA sliders it *is far* easier for me to throw deep, over-the-top passes into one-on-one coverage and get a completion than it is to hit an open guy on a 7-yard pass crossing over the middle thanks to frequent drops. And drops are 100% the biggest pet peeve I can have with a football game. They should be a part of the game, but the fun factor for me is out the window if it's over the top as it was with NCAA 2005, NFL2k3(?), etc. I'm still hoping that between just playing better and slider/difficulty tweaks that I can tolerate NCAA 2006 without setting it aside in disgust.

Last night I maxed out the Hands slider to 99 and played Michigan vs. Central Michigan and had eight drops. Eight. Four by my two primary wide receivers who have Catch ratings of 89 and 91 and both were flat-out open. Having a problem with that kind of occurence isn't nitpicking the game, it's a legit concern. No uncontensted pass should ever be dropped if you have a catch slider maxed out. Ever. Otherwise why have the slider? Near as I can figure that slider makes zero difference in an AI player's ability to catch the ball.

On my lunch break I headed over to OS and printed out Jistic's slider codes/settings. Couldn't hurt to give them a try. I may even go the PK rout and try them out on Varsity. Couldn't hurt, anyway. There's a lot to like in this game, but if I keep having 8+ uncontested drops per game I'll end up setting it aside as soon as Madden hits.

And hell yeah, if I've gotta watch Aflleck for two hours, it better be in a Kevin Smith movie.
---Todd

It's really weird about the drop issue. there seems to be half that say they don't have a problem with drops and the other half say they do. Most have suggested using manual catch but it sounds like this isn't really helping stop the drops for some.

I've read that composure has a lot to do with drops but can't verify this. Is there a way to turn the composure stuff off in the game and see if it decreases your drops? I wish I could help you out but I dont think there is a clear answer for this.

[JRod]

Like Abner said, why is a 7 yard pass harder to complete than a 57 yard pass?

For me it isn't. It is all about timing and reading the defense. Sure you hit a few bombs every now and then. It is a video game, perfection is not attainable. If this drives you nuts here is a solution. Pick an option team and limit the deep ball to running play action passes a couple times per game. Problem solved, realism is saved and the added plus that the option is a blast to run in this years game.

Once again why not PRACTICE getting better at the game then spending hours trying to create a perfect slider set?

Huh, I'm not spending post after post talking about sliders. Like I said I don't have a problem with MY PASSING GAME. It sucks and I'm frustrated. What I can't stand is the CPU passing game. When Matt Leinart can barely get over 50% against a decent D there's a problem.

But I hate how the CPU passing becomes woefully average against average defenses.

Last Night on Heisman with 99 passing and 99 catching against 0 awareness, knockdowns and int. Pitt QB was 6-30. The ND defense isn't too shabby but come on. I've played Pitt v ND for a few games becuase I just can't stand how bad it is. And Pitt QB has consistenly been under 50%.