OT: Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith (spoilers)

[Teal]

Loved it. Good conclusion to the series. I know because I pulled out Ep IV this morning, and it looks different in light of watching Sith last night. Twice. Yep, I went at 3:45 and called mix to see what he thought of it, only to find out that he hadn't gone yet. He was going to go alone to the 10:15, so I drove back out there and went again. It was good the second time as well.

Question: Word is that Lucas himself is in the film. Anyone catch him? Supposedly all you can recognize of him is the beard. Anyone?

I believe Lucas was one of the people with Palp at the opera. His son was the last "youngling" that was killed at the Jedi Temple when Bail Organa showed up.

That's cool. The kid could swing a lightsaber pretty good! I'll have to look for Lucas the next time I go...

[PadresFan104]

Saw it. Loved it. Caught the 11:30 PM show with my step-daughter tonight. It's 2:30AM now and I almost feel like putting in episode IV just to keep it going...

Great posts everyone, especially Slumberland, good stuff!!

With this movie, the saga really feels much more emotionally richer to me. It felt so gratifying to see Vader on the bridge at the end, and the Skywalkers looking into the sunset.

Not the best movies by any rational means, but they will always be important to me. I was 9 years old when this ride started in 1977, and never once has it gotten old....

Al

[WillHunting]

My own little like/dislike of 3.

Like:

-Humor sprinkled throughout the movie

-Once Anakin turned bad, he was really really bad. I like it, especially at the Jedi Temple and how he turned on Padme as well

-Designs of various space craft, I have always enjoyed SW's space ships, everyone practically flies a new ship every time out, it is nice to see how Lucas & co. try to design the ships so they have continuity with the older trilogy

-Dialogue is nowhere as bad as the first 2, thank god.

-No cheesy, throwaway characters (unless you count Grevious!)

-Made some attempts to explain what fans are curious about (Jedi ghost, hehe), even if they are just lip service

-How the Empire is created (even tho we all see it coming!)

-Fight between Yoda & Darth Sidious was good!


Dislike:

-Anakin turned to the darkside was surprisingly weak and sudden. My wife and I felt like, for one minute, he felt terrible about what he did (to Mace Windu), then the next minute, he is swearing allegiance to Darth Sidious. I mean, the whole reason for this trilogy to exist is to explain how Anakin turned to Darth Vader (and the rise of the Empire). Anakin just threw away all of his Jedi teachings since he was a little boy and decided that they are bad, and actually believed Darth Sidious that they rebelled. You gotta be pretty dumb to believe that.

Of course, his stronger reason to turn to dark side is for Padme. But DS only said it is a legend that supposedly had happened, there is no guarantee such power exists, ony that the light side surely cannot do. It is pretty shaky to turn that evil on an empty promise. But then again, maybe his psyche is that shaken from his mom's death.

-Final fight scene between Anakin and Obi was dragged out and not too exciting. I felt like they were dancing for a long time, maybe their powers were evenly matched, I don't know. Plus, Obi's warning at the end was kinda lame. I thought he was talking about Moral Highground, hehe.

-Dialogue, while not that bad, is not that good either.

-General Grevious, seems, forced. I don't know, he is a robot, but no, he is more like Darth Vader but he doesn't care about exposing his internal organs. And he coughs, alot. Annoying.

-Count Dooku sucks. He can toss Obi like a rag doll but Anakin doesn't even seem to try all that hard. At that point, I am thinking to myself, Anakin should be able to handle 2 or 3 Obi's at once

-I am still confused about Padme's character, she doesn't do much other than giving birth to the twins. She became a desperate housewife.


That's all, I enjoyed the movie alot, and it is by far the best of the 3 but it is way behind any of the originals. I popped in IV and III definitely made IV a better movie with the continuity and all. At least Lucas kept most things consistent and able to bridge the story together, but the dialogue is so much weaker in I-III compared to IV-VI. Han Solo alone is funnier and has more character than anyone in this trilogy.

[Teal]

-Anakin turned to the darkside was surprisingly weak and sudden. My wife and I felt like, for one minute, he felt terrible about what he did (to Mace Windu), then the next minute, he is swearing allegiance to Darth Sidious.

Yeah, at first I thought that was a little sudden, but the more I thought about it...when he 'helped' the chancellor kill Mace, he sealed the deal. The way they talk about the Dark Side is that you go there simply by using your fear, anger, or rage along with the Force, and it kind of 'grabs' you. You have to will yourself not to let your emotions get in the way. He did.

I think he also thought that he'd turned a corner that he couldn't turn back from, so all he had left was saving Padme...

[Zeppo]

I need to see this movie again. There are a lot of little, throw-away details that I didn't catch that I want to notice. So many wondrous creatures! The parallels between Anakin fighting in front of the big P those two times, and the one time Luke is in front of the Emperor wielding his blade are pretty precise, in a little bit creepy way.

This movie has given some resonance to my memories of the other two recent pictures. I don't think that if I went back and watched them again (not unlikely, really) that I wouldn't be just as bored and un-engaged in long stretches as I have been before, but there are memories of events and incidents that carry a little bit more meaning now.

Some stuff is sticking in my memory as really creepy. The clones creep me out sometimes, lurking about without their helmets in some scenes, they unnerved me. Anakin coming in on the yougnlings, that is sticking with me. They are so relieved and happy to see him, the way they come running out of hiding. Anakin at the end, yelling at Obi Wan as he's trying to crawl away from the lava, his body barely there. Especially once he starts burning. The big P when he lets himself go is really pretty sickening. When seeing the film, I was struck by how far, how big, McDiarmid goes there. I mean, talk about chewing the scenery, his line readings are pure melodrama villain/mad scientist/ wicked witch of the west etc, and to the nth degree! But looking back, it's creeping me out. He starts making these foul burps and involuntary vomit noises, I mean he is way over the edge, but I like it.

I just wish there was more Dooku, I can't get enough of Lee and his voice, and he could have been so much more menacing and powerful with even just one scene of evil-doing before the fight.

But the success of this movie as a roller coaster of massive action sequences and the degree to which character is expresed through those action sequences and confrontations makes me a bit sad about the first two. They could have been so much more.

I've been checking some of the threads over at the SW website, and the major complaint is that the film feels rushed, that it moves too fast to be able to sit in some of the sequences as the audience would like. They complain that there is too much material in the film to let it take its time, not to mention the stuff they all know about from the books that isn't in the film, stuff about Qui-Gon talking with Yoda from beyond the grave (sort of need to have that bit to sell the whole ghost-jedi thing), or Organa and Mon Mothma and others planting the seeds for the resistance/rebellion with Padme (would've loved to see that and maybe a bit of the senate convincing themsleves and deciding to give power to the Chancellor), or the battle on Kashyyk, which is barely there but could have been so incredible. There is a lot in the film as it is; Slumberland mentioned to me that the film is a little exhausting, and not just because it's long. But it's a bit odd that this film, the final 2.5hrs of a 7hr. story, doesn't seem to have enough time to get all the info in it that the filmmakers or audiences would like. That pretty much tells me that the other two, which are very slow and plodding, were seriously missed opportunities, and it's a real shame.

I still contend that a bunch of sequences from the other films are very, very good, but as a whole the films just don't work, especially in comparison to this new one. So this one is demonstrating that it can be done, that you can take that story and go back and retell the genesis of it and make good movies that are really fun to watch and emotionally satisfying, that Lucas can take all the technology that has come as fruits of the very first SW film, and use it to create a real, classic cinematic experience. It's a real shame that that's not what happened with the first two. But at least we get this one.

I don't know if this film would work as well if you don't have those characters already established from the other films. Padme is pretty much a non-actor in this picture, so any emotional weight her experience has is due to us having been with that character in the other films, where she was a major cog in the wheels of the plot and action. A little bit of that as well goes for Anakin, and maybe even Obi Wan.

Pardon my rambling. There's just so much to talk about!

[Zeppo]

My own little like/dislike of 3.

Like:

-Humor sprinkled throughout the movie

-Once Anakin turned bad, he was really really bad. I like it, especially at the Jedi Temple and how he turned on Padme as well

Absolutely

-Designs of various space craft, I have always enjoyed SW's space ships, everyone practically flies a new ship every time out, it is nice to see how Lucas & co. try to design the ships so they have continuity with the older trilogy

Definitely! Especially that ship Padme uses, that thing was nice!

Dislike:

-Anakin turned to the darkside was surprisingly weak and sudden. My wife and I felt like, for one minute, he felt terrible about what he did (to Mace Windu), then the next minute, he is swearing allegiance to Darth Sidious. I mean, the whole reason for this trilogy to exist is to explain how Anakin turned to Darth Vader (and the rise of the Empire). Anakin just threw away all of his Jedi teachings since he was a little boy and decided that they are bad, and actually believed Darth Sidious that they rebelled. You gotta be pretty dumb to believe that.

Of course, his stronger reason to turn to dark side is for Padme. But DS only said it is a legend that supposedly had happened, there is no guarantee such power exists, ony that the light side surely cannot do. It is pretty shaky to turn that evil on an empty promise. But then again, maybe his psyche is that shaken from his mom's death.

Well, it seems to me that he had made the important step when he killed Dooku at the urging of the big P. That was sort of the moment that A.), Palpatine knows he has him in his palm, and B.) Ani starts to really be confused re: the right thing to do vs. the Jedi 'code,' or what he's been taught. Once he has helped P. kill Windu, and having seen P. pretty much fry Windu up with great ease, he knows he is in no position to directly challenge the Sith Lord, so he meekly proclaims his alegiance- he has no choice, he knows it's either that or die, and that any chance he had to kill P. (which he really was about to try before he ran to get Windu) has gone out the window with Windu ( ). He still is unsure of himslef, even as he rampages through the temple and even on the volcano planet, dealing with the Trade Federation guys, he is crying.

To me, it's about he all-consuming need to get that secret power that only Sidious can give him. He can't let Sidious die, or that knowledge dies with him, so for the sake of his love of Padme, he must keep Palpatine alive. Given the choice between letting Windu kill P., or saving P., he makes the choice his need to keep Padme alive dicates. I mean, in some ways, the moment he massacres all those sand people in EpII is the first and final step, you know? The rest just sort of plays out, following and building on that action of revenge, which came out of loss and love.

-Count Dooku sucks. He can toss Obi like a rag doll but Anakin doesn't even seem to try all that hard. At that point, I am thinking to myself, Anakin should be able to handle 2 or 3 Obi's at once

I'm willing to believe the big P has a lot more to do with that battle than is blatantly shown. I mean, he clearly sets the whole confrontation up to allow his ultimate apprentice to position himself to take his place at his master's side, even though Ani isn't aware that is happening at that time. But Palpatine clearly is, as is Dooku, but Palpatine can't reveal that to Ani quite yet.

-I am still confused about Padme's character, she doesn't do much other than giving birth to the twins. She became a desperate housewife.

Couldn't agree more. Some stuff about her and Organa and Mon Mothma (a character who is no more than an extra in this film) plotting and scheming and setting up the rebellion would have helped a lot. She was a tough little broad in the first film, fighting alongside her army there, and in this one she is little more than furniture.

That's all, I enjoyed the movie alot, and it is by far the best of the 3 but it is way behind any of the originals. I popped in IV and III definitely made IV a better movie with the continuity and all. At least Lucas kept most things consistent and able to bridge the story together, but the dialogue is so much weaker in I-III compared to IV-VI. Han Solo alone is funnier and has more character than anyone in this trilogy.

Can't disagree entirely there, but just as there are parts of Jedi that are my all-time favorite SW moments despite the horrors of the Jaba sequence and the Ewoks, so too do I think this one will last due to the strength of the final 1/3 or so of the film. We'll see.

[WillHunting]

I just wish there was more Dooku, I can't get enough of Lee and his voice, and he could have been so much more menacing and powerful with even just one scene of evil-doing before the fight.

I wanted to see more of Dooku as well. You know someone (on another forum) brought up a good point. While I am okay with the General Grevous character, it would have been better if Dooku somehow escaped the fight with Obi/Ani and him replacing Grevous as a whole. I don't know the origins of Grevous so maybe he is important in the Clone Wars cartoon, but Dooku just died too easily (and I refuse to believe that he is helping big P to get Ani. Wouldn't Dooku want to live and continue to serve P?).

But yes, I want to see this again (probably wait for the DVD, and rewatch I thru III) and see how everything fits together.

[Inuyasha]

-Anakin turned to the darkside was surprisingly weak and sudden. My wife and I felt like, for one minute, he felt terrible about what he did (to Mace Windu), then the next minute, he is swearing allegiance to Darth Sidious.

Yeah, at first I thought that was a little sudden, but the more I thought about it...when he 'helped' the chancellor kill Mace, he sealed the deal. The way they talk about the Dark Side is that you go there simply by using your fear, anger, or rage along with the Force, and it kind of 'grabs' you. You have to will yourself not to let your emotions get in the way. He did.

I think he also thought that he'd turned a corner that he couldn't turn back from, so all he had left was saving Padme...

Ya, I was thinking the same thing, It was done too quickly, but at the end it turned out ok. It could have still been played out better. If they had it where palpitine tempted Anakin more to turn on Mace it probably would have been smoother.

[Zeppo]

. . . (and I refuse to believe that he is helping big P to get Ani. Wouldn't Dooku want to live and continue to serve P?).

No, no, you misunderstand me. My point is that the whole confrontation was engineered by Palpatine specifically to get Anakin to fight Dooku for a second time, after Dooku had cut off Anakin's hand and all that the first time. The idea is, Palpatine wants to see if Anakin is powerful enough and ready to become his new apprentice, so he gets them together, gives Anakin a good excuse to fight (the Chancellor needs to be rescued), and gets Obi Wan out of the way. Then, he sits back and watches the more powerful but uncommitted Anakin deal with Dooku easily. When Palpatine tells Anakin to kill the count, Dooku is clearly surprised, obviously quite unhappy, and very much aware what Palpatine is doing; that is, the new apprentice kills the old aprentice and takes his place, just as the aprentice kills the master and takes his place, that's how the Sith go, and that's why Sidious is always changing apprentices. But Dooku surely thought he was supposed to dispatch with the powerful Jedi, unaware of Palpatine's plans for Anakin, until the moment Palpatine tells Anni to kill the old man.

[TheGamer]

I believe one of the things that we miss in Anakin's turn, is his lust for control and power. True, Palp is mainly manipulating him into being his apprentice, but Ani showed in AOTC that he believes in a "supreme ruler" when he tells Padme during a casual political discussion that he believes a dictator should run everything for the people. Then in ROTS, he tells her that he would destroy Palp and the two of them would rule the galaxy as he tells Luke the same thing in ESB and ROTJ.

[Slumberland]

That's definitely part of it Gamer... in fact, his whole turn to the darkside has a sort of "close enough for rock and roll" feel to it for me. When it first happens, it seems a bit too sudden, but then you remember all the concurrent forces pushing him in that direction, i.e. saving padme, believing Mace is a traitor, having been asked to spy on the Chancellor, the Council keeping him at arms length, the bureaucratic Senate, and a seeming wealth of emotion for two women (his mother and Padme) which is on one hand constantly suppressed by the Jedi but accepted by Palpatine... and it sort of works.

One part that gets me is when he goes into the room with the younglings, and not just for the obvious reasons... that kid looks a bit like the younger Anakin. It's like a reminder of the rather cold welcome he received at the hands of the Jedi Council at that age. Remember what bitches Mace and Yoda were to him in Phantom Menace? Part of why I buy him suddenly becoming a child killer (in addition to the fact that he already went down that road with the sand people) is that the youngling who speaks reminds him of his entire history with the Jedi Order, a history he'd like to eradicate. But hey, I read into this stuff too much.

I gotta say, Luke had a pretty easy road compared to Anakin, don't you think? Sure, his aunt and uncle got torched, but at least he didn't feel responsible in the way Anakin did when his mother died... and I never got the sense Luke was that close with good ol' Owen Lars to begin with. And then the only girl Luke would have 'cause to get all stalker-ish about, a la Ani does with Padme, turns out to be off-limits, for familial reasons.

For the record, when Anakin gets roasted, I could not believe what I was seeing. And Obi-Wans speech on that hill might be my favorite moment in the entire series, and surprisingly eloquent. Something about that line "you were supposed to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness"... McGregor does a great job. That's the tough part about trying to rate ROTS with the other films. There's a fair amount of stuff in the first half that just isn't good, I can't pretend otherwise. But there are so many parts, mostly in the last half, that evoke emotions that NO other Star Wars film has been capable of.

[RobVarak]

Saw it. Loved it! I couldn't wait to get back here and check out this thread that I've been avoiding for days, and you guys haven't disappointed...especially Slumber and Zep. A few random thoughts, as I'm tired as hell:

1. Slumberland, I really like your observations on good/evil and the Jedi philosophy. It really resonates when you look at them as a warrior class in the mold of the samurai....especially Kurosawa's portrayal of them. The underlying theme of the Seven Samurai is the relationship between a civil society and a martial class which values honor, discipline and valor above all else. Many of the pitfalls of that system are also evident in SW. In short, you really want these guys around when bandits are attacking your village or the Sith are knocking on the starship door, but you really don't want one sleeping with your daughter or marrying your daughter, the Princess of Naboo.

2. Zeppo, your roll call of small touches with enormous resonance hit home with me as well. When Obi Wan almost absent-mindedly reaches down and picks up the defeated Vader's blue lightsaber, I almost jumped out of my seat and shouted "that's the one he give Luke!!" I literally thought of the scene on board the Falcoln where he's practicing with those droids. So many cool little touches.

3. I found that playing all of KOTOR really informed my understanding of the Sith ethos.


My God. That has to be some sort of record for the geekiest sentence I've ever written. Anyway, it's true. Especially the Darwinian master-apprentice relationship.

4. I didn't think that Palpy was rope-a-doping Windu in order to garner sympathy from Anakin. I think Mace was a near-Yoda level bad ass who would've done him in had Anakin not intervened. I don't necessarily see any inconsistency in his nearly losing to Mace and managing to hold his own with Yoda. There's a hierarchy, but I suspect that there's some level of luck and skill at play in these fights right?

5 The dialog gets a particularly bad rap in part because every single thing that Padme says is inane. 90% of the wince-inducing language comes out of her mouth. I can imagine Natalie Portman looking at the script and saying, "Just remember what they're paying me" over and over. Several fine to good performances were overshadowed by this, I think (particularly Ewan MacGregor).

6. I was also more impressed with the effects in this one. I don't think it was anything technical, though (although the Palpatine face-shredding was spectacular). I think it was because the effects were serving a story that was much more powerful to the viewer. There were so many more familiar touchstones in this picture that the first two lacked. I & II had us in a familiar place, but not quite familiar enough for comfort. Sure the droids and Yoda were there, and we know intellectually that this fella becomes Darth Vader, but it was too distant to be emotionally powerful. This was coming back to a familiar neighborhood, and I think that the power of the effects (and the movie in general) was multiplied tenfold as a result.


7. I had a lot of cynical laughing and snickers in my crowd too. Part of the problem was that I saw this in a theater with a ton of HS age kids, for whom nothing could be cooler than to be too cool for this sort of thing. It was frustrating, but considering that this is a demographic that grew up on bad console games and Phantom Menace, is probably par for the course.

More later. Must sleep. Tired, I am.

[Slumberland]

I had a lot of cynical laughing and snickers in my crowd too. Part of the problem was that I saw this in a theater with a ton of HS age kids, for whom nothing could be cooler than to be too cool for this sort of thing.

I could probably forgive high-schoolers, but a crowd full of New York City twenty-to-thirty-somethings going out of their way to make sure everyone knows they're above it all really chaps my ass. I've seen it three times now, and I have to admit that the third time was via less than legal means, not in a theater. I really adore the movie, and it was nice to see it without others telling me what I should be thinking while I'm watching it.

I don't own any of the Star Wars DVD's, but I look forward to the six-disc box set that just HAS to be in the works.

On a related note, if any of you haven't checked out darthside.blogspot.com, you definitely should. I know Bill Harris linked to it in his blog a while back, and man is it great. Half-comedic, half-insightful and moving take on Vader's state of mind during the original trilogy, by way of journal entries. Great stuff.

[TheGamer]

Isn't Palp's appearance just hidden by the dark side?? Isn't he all wrinkly in TPM and AOTC when he's a hologram?

[LAking]

I've seen it twice now and will probably be seing it for a third time within the next few days. You really do get more out of it the second time around. This movie is far more complex than perhaps any of the other SW films, at least as far as it's message about good and evil. I think Slumberland's take on it is the most accurate. It really is about how there is no such thing as pure good and pure evil. It's all about what is neccesary to maintina "justice" or "liberty", about what path to take. ANd of course it is ultimately about having faith in someone. I guess the original trilogy has the same message but it's not as obvious until you see ep. 3.
I saw it last night with my girlfriend and she had a lot to say about it. Too much to go into right now, but she is a political science major and has taken a class on Bhudism and has some pretty interesting views on the whole thing. SHe thinks Lucas is VERY interested in those subject. Similar views to Slumberland but maybe takes it a bit further in saying that Sidious may even have a shred of good left in him, somewhere deep down. I can't buy it but it's something to think about. Power can corrupt anyone. Evil is done in the name of good. Got to go to work now, keep discussing the film!

[Brando70]

Good thoughts on the movie here. I liked it, but didn't love it. Definitely the best of the first three episodes, and the last half in particular was really good. I had the same kinds of issues others did with Anakin's conversion scene, but once you accept it, Christiansen did a nice job turning into Vader. General Grievous was the biggest weak spot IMO. It seemed like someone thought, "wouldn't it be cool to have a cyborg wielding four lightsabers?" and then wrote the whole part around that concept.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who had KOTOR flashbacks during this. I was cataloging Force Powers as I watched. Yes, I am a dork.

Seeing the film actually got me thinking about the whole Star Wars series. A few random thoughts:

--I don't think any of the first three episodes hold a candle to episodes 4-6. Episode 3, while good, just wasn't as tight as a movie like Empire. The stories in Episodes 4-6 are much more streamlined and character-driven. Lucas is sometimes in love with his creation too much, and there's so much stuff going on -- visually and storywise -- that I don't know where to focus. Even in this movie, his pacing is off for the first hour, until he finally settles in and lets the story unfold more naturally. There were times when I wanted to press the A button to skip the dialog

--The real problem with Ep. 1-3 is Anakin and Padme. Their relationship is the emotional lynchpin to the whole series. It is the reason why Anakin turns to the Dark Side. But Portman and Christiansen never really connected on screen for me. It was better in this movie, but still wooden. That made it harder for me to buy into Anakin's fall.

--That ties into something else: aside from Palpatine, I think all the new characters in Ep. 1-3 were pretty poor, as were the new plotlines. You never really get to know the other Jedi, the other villains couldn't hold Darth Vader's jockstrap, and the rise of the Emperor storyline is not nearly as dramatic as it could have been. I tended to get most involved when characters and plot elements from Ep. 4-6 were present, which is why I liked Episdoe 3 so much.

--Mrs. B and I were "workshopping" the movie, and we felt that Lucas really could have told this whole story in one Lord-of-the-Rings-length movie. You could have easily condensed Episode 1 to key flashbacks (his mother dying), boiled down the most important 30 minutes of Episode 2, and pruned Episode 3 a bit to keep the emotional tension high between Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine.

All in all, I was glad Episode 3 ended on a high note. It was a fun night at the movies, and I think Lucas finally delivered what we all wanted to see.

[vader29]

Finally got to see it this afternoon and loved it, definitely the best of the prequels. The final battle with Obi-Wan and Anakin was great, even though I had read spoilers of Anakin losing his limbs in the battle and was expecting it, seeing it was just jaw dropping for me.

Sad that this is the end of the movies though now, I would love to see a new Star Wars movie every couple of years. Hopefully the tv series will be a huge hit and somehow Lucas or someone else will make future movies on the big screen.

[Bill_Abner]

Good thoughts on the movie here. I liked it, but didn't love it. Definitely the best of the first three episodes

100% agree

--I don't think any of the first three episodes hold a candle to episodes 4-6. Episode 3, while good, just wasn't as tight as a movie like Empire. The stories in Episodes 4-6 are much more streamlined and character-driven. Lucas is sometimes in love with his creation too much, and there's so much stuff going on -- visually and storywise -- that I don't know where to focus. Even in this movie, his pacing is off for the first hour, until he finally settles in and lets the story unfold more naturally. There were times when I wanted to press the A button to skip the dialog

Again total agreement. I think this is about on par with the original Star Wars, though. I give Ep4 the nod due to the Han Solo factor. Empire and Jedi I think are much better movies in terms of pacing and story, though.

--The real problem with Ep. 1-3 is Anakin and Padme. Their relationship is the emotional lynchpin to the whole series. It is the reason why Anakin turns to the Dark Side. But Portman and Christiansen never really connected on screen for me. It was better in this movie, but still wooden. That made it harder for me to buy into Anakin's fall.

It's a huge problem for me. The love stuff in Ep2 just flat out did not work, and Padme's character was just a total waste in Ep3. She goes from a vital political figure to a typical woman lovin' her man. Portman is a good actress but she struggles in every SW movie IMO. She never seems into this role at all.

--That ties into something else: aside from Palpatine, I think all the new characters in Ep. 1-3 were pretty poor, as were the new plotlines. You never really get to know the other Jedi, the other villains couldn't hold Darth Vader's jockstrap, and the rise of the Emperor storyline is not nearly as dramatic as it could have been. I tended to get most involved when characters and plot elements from Ep. 4-6 were present, which is why I liked Episdoe 3 so much.

Characterization in Eps 4-6 is what makes them so great. They all play off one another extremely well. I dont think we have much of that here. We seem to have exchanged great characters with great fight sequences and more special effects. As for Vader's jockstrap, I used to think so too until they turned Vader into a totally different charater in this movie. The first half of the Vader scene, when he's staring up into the mask as it's about to form fit his face was brilliant! The best scene in any of the new movies (maybe the Maul fight excluded). Then they have him stumble off the gurney like Frankenstein and then give that ridiculous "Nooooo" scream. That was, um, not very Vader-like and just killed what should have been a chilling scene of him becoming Darth Vader and totally embracing that fact.

--Mrs. B and I were "workshopping" the movie, and we felt that Lucas really could have told this whole story in one Lord-of-the-Rings-length movie. You could have easily condensed Episode 1 to key flashbacks (his mother dying), boiled down the most important 30 minutes of Episode 2, and pruned Episode 3 a bit to keep the emotional tension high between Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine.

The new movies are way more complicated than they needed to be. As for LotR, Peter Jackson made Lucas his b*tch. Even though Ep3 is a much better film that 1 and 2, what Jackson did with the Ring Trilogy was nothing less than astounding.

All in all, I was glad Episode 3 ended on a high note. It was a fun night at the movies, and I think Lucas finally delivered what we all wanted to see.

I'm glad it's over and I'm happy that Ep3 was a better movie. I wasn't cringing like I did in the first two. Plot holes aside, I did like it. It lacked any Jar Jar moments, so that was good.

Some questions, though:

--Padme dying I thought was kinda silly. She died because of...depression? She gives birth to two healthy children and she dies, not of complications but because of a broken heart? Huh? Didn't Leia have a memory of her mother in Jedi?

--R2D2 is super droid? When did they lose the ability to leap out of the spacecraft...because they need a crane to lift him in and out of the Xwins in the old movies.

--Did Chewie really need to make an appearance? I mean come on..this is the smallest galaxy ever.

--How did Anakin survive being engulfed by lava? Jedi can die by taking a few blaster shots so I'd think that molten lava would do the trick, too. And why didn't OB1 finish the job? Maybe because he too felt that lava consumption was pretty much a death sentence?

--Speaking of blasters and Jedi, did the Masters forget how to block them during the killing scenes? I gotta admit I hated the fact that the Stromtroopers/clone guys killed off the Jedi and these same clones can't hit the broad side of Jabba's ass in the old movies.

--Why was Grievous hacking and wheezing? Anyone catch a reason for that?

Sounds like a lot of bitching and I guess it is, but I really did enjoy the movie more than I thought I would. I'd put it tied for third in the 6 part sequence in terms of "goodness".

I still wish they would have that the Vader scene a lot more ominous, though.

[vader29]

--Why was Grievous hacking and wheezing? Anyone catch a reason for that?

Yeah I was wondering about that myself, maybe someone who has read the novel can shed some light on why he was like that.

[Bill_Abner]

--Why was Grievous hacking and wheezing? Anyone catch a reason for that?

Yeah I was wondering about that myself, maybe someone who has read the novel can shed some light on why he was like that.

Maybe this is explained in the animated stuff where he appears?

Anyway, for some great Star Wars reading check out these threads at Qt3. Over analyzing is half the fun

http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/vi ... hp?t=19085

http://www.quartertothree.com/phpBB2/vi ... hp?t=19036

[RobVarak]

Brando wrote:
--Mrs. B and I were "workshopping" the movie, and we felt that Lucas really could have told this whole story in one Lord-of-the-Rings-length movie. You could have easily condensed Episode 1 to key flashbacks (his mother dying), boiled down the most important 30 minutes of Episode 2, and pruned Episode 3 a bit to keep the emotional tension high between Anakin, Padme, Obi-Wan, and Palpatine.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Somewher in all the pre-release media Lucas intimated as much. He admitted that he stuffed the first two with filler in order to fit the trilogy structure that he wanted.

Padme's death was definitely bad. The "she's losing the will to live" line absolutely, positively has to hit the cutting room floor.

The stumbling "NOOOOOO" scream by Vader was odd, but a clear homage to Frankenstein. I also felt that the style that the purge of the Jedi was presented in was a nod to the conlcusion of The Godfather. But then I might be odd.

[btmmayor]

--Why was Grievous hacking and wheezing? Anyone catch a reason for that?

Yeah I was wondering about that myself, maybe someone who has read the novel can shed some light on why he was like that.

It was explained in the Clone Wars cartoon. Mace Windu force crushes the chest of General Grievous as he is leaving Coruscant after capturing Palpatine.

I personally thought that the Vader scene was very well done. He is just told that the only person that he cares for is dead because he lost control. Vader is also trying to take his first steps after losing both of his legs. It only makes sense that he would be falling all over himself.

I originally thought that I was going to be dissapointed at not seeing more of the armored Darth Vader in Episode III. After his battle with Obi-Wan though, he is basically crippled. It would be ridiculous to see him jumping around and slicing up Jedi right after the operation. It also goes a long way in explaining some of those lightsaber fights in the OT and why he would never be able to challenge Palpatine.

[Inuyasha]

Grevious was too much in tune with Ep 1 and Ep2. With his death, I think it marks an end to the pre-story of ep1 and ep2 and the latter is more in reference to ep4.

As for rating the movie, I think it's probably 3rd in the series after ANH and ESB. I never liked Jedi, the whole plot was too redone. Having another death star to blow up like in Ep4 wasn't too original imo. I think they could have played the Emperor/Luke/Vader thing a little more in that movie since Han Solo and Leia were basically non-existant in that movie.

[kicko]

many good points, but my biggest beef is the timeline, you mean to tell me the deathstar takes 16+ years to build(brings us up to ep4 with luke a teen), when in ep3 its clearly already begun. and then in ep5 after being destroyed it gets rebuilt like overnight! also in ep1 anakin is too young, and then he grows up real fast

[Spooky]

Some questions, though:

--Padme dying I thought was kinda silly. She died because of...depression? She gives birth to two healthy children and she dies, not of complications but because of a broken heart? Huh? Didn't Leia have a memory of her mother in Jedi?

--R2D2 is super droid? When did they lose the ability to leap out of the spacecraft...because they need a crane to lift him in and out of the Xwins in the old movies.

--Did Chewie really need to make an appearance? I mean come on..this is the smallest galaxy ever.

--How did Anakin survive being engulfed by lava? Jedi can die by taking a few blaster shots so I'd think that molten lava would do the trick, too. And why didn't OB1 finish the job? Maybe because he too felt that lava consumption was pretty much a death sentence?

--Speaking of blasters and Jedi, did the Masters forget how to block them during the killing scenes? I gotta admit I hated the fact that the Stromtroopers/clone guys killed off the Jedi and these same clones can't hit the broad side of Jabba's ass in the old movies.

--Why was Grievous hacking and wheezing? Anyone catch a reason for that?

Sounds like a lot of bitching and I guess it is, but I really did enjoy the movie more than I thought I would. I'd put it tied for third in the 6 part sequence in terms of "goodness".

I still wish they would have that the Vader scene a lot more ominous, though.

Great questions Bill!

Your 'smallest galaxy ever' comment brings me to an interesting problem I had with the film. At the end, all this going back and fourth betweeen planets seemed to take about 5 minutes (in context with the in-story time). There was a lot of, 'hey, blah, blah is happening over on this planet and we need to get there...' then litereally five minutes later in the story, they'd be there. Wer all these planets like right next to one an other? Kind of odd and noticable IMO. Weren't these planets on the ;outer rim'. I guess that sounds further than it is!?!?!

Another thing was the whole Wookie planet. That was really contrived and forced. There was no need for that and it was severly underdevloped. Oh well.

Overall though, I thought it was highly entertaining!