MVP: Is low-and-away pitch this year's lefty bug?

[pk500]

Good to know, Leebo, as I'm heading to the mall in five minutes to buy MVP 2005 and Brothers in Arms with my eBay kitty.

Appreciate the guinea pig work!

Take care,
PK

[webdanzer]

I honestly don't want to waste anyone else's time, so I'm gonna try Leebo's theory and play a game or two on all slider defaults to see if that makes a difference for me. If not, I'll live with the fact that somehow I'm getting a different game experiece than the rest of you, (except maybe marino) and I won't make any further mention of it.

If it turns out I start getting shelled, though, i'll definitely make note of that here.

[Granatofan]

Hey Web,

I missed that part about you saying that you don't get punished as much missing on a low and away pitch and I generally agree with that statement. I've noticed though that if I miss late with a breaking pitch it will break further down or away. If I miss late with a fastball it will usually go low, but not always. However if you miss early with either pitch low and away you will get creamed.

And I'm another one that doesn't mind people bringing up the issues they are seeing in their games. Keep bringing the opinions.

Ted

[JRod]

PK and Others...

Aren't you supposed to pitch low and away in Real Life? If any MLB pitcher could throw low and away wouldn't they be a 10 time Cy Young winner with an ERA of .0001.

The problem isn't low and away and is ALWAYS low and away. If you can throw 100 pitches and 90 of them are low and away in the zone you should have a low scoring game and your pitcher should be the winner.

Hell I don't think this is a bug but the game is mimicking real MLB pitching.

Now I have grown tried of exact pitching. I hate it in all baseball games. And in MVP its wearing on me. I'm not ready to go back to High Heat where I have NO CONTROL of where a pitch is going to be but MVP needs more user error.

That being said, there's a few things you can do. Decrease the Human Pitching Control slider or increase the CPU contact slider. DO NOT MESS AROUND WITH THE FOUL BALL SLIDER, that damn thing can kill hitting with minor changes.

Lastly if you wanted to introduce some house rules. Hey even the great NCAA Football, WE, etc had house rules, edit your own pitching staffs control. I have to hand it to EA that they allow us to edit our own players in mid-Franchise. I tested this out today, and boy what a difference. I couldn't hit a damn thing. With my -25 human control and the individual pitcher's control set to 0, it was really tough to have great outings.

[TRI]

I'm a low and away pitcher. You are supposed to do that. That is generally the most effective zone for pitching in real life. A pitcher only comes inside if he has to or if it is in his interest.

That being said. I never get away with it after the second inning in MVP. Hit the meter or not I start getting knocked around pretty good.

I have seen the AI adjust. I've seen them move to crowd the plate and then I try to brush them back and have seen them move off the plate again. I have seen this, but not as much as I'd like. I don't think the AI needs to move because it can make good contact in any zone.

If anything I have been disappointed that low and away isn't as effective as it should be. I think maybe the developers compensated for the ease of hitting the meter by allowing the AI to make good contact anywhere.

Now if you want to see effective low and away pitching go back to ESPN 2k4. Low and away was gold in that game.

That is my experience,

Ted

I think that ESPN MLB 2K4 is still the best baseball game. Very realistic game overall.

[Granatofan]

Tri,

That was my favorite last year overall.

Ted

[laurenskye]

chalk me up as one that agrees with Web. I "discovered" this a few days ago and it seems reality to me.

So much so that I traded it in for MLB today and have been very happy. This game just "fits" me better I guess.

[webdanzer]

JRod,

I agree with you. Yep, pitching low and away in real baseball is effective. It’s also generally safer, as I was finding it in the game. I said as much myself in earlier posts. The problem I was having is that the cpu didn’t seem to be adapting *at all*. In real life, if a batter knew all the pitcher was going to do was throw low and away *all the time*, they would get some hits. In MVP, it was simply no fun that you could sit in one zone all game and not worry about batters learning to go there and punish you.

Here’s where I eat crow, so heap up my plate, boys, I’m late for dinner.

I just played a game on all-star default and got pounded by the Cardinals. I gave up 10 runs for the game, I had Pavano stay in for all of it. It felt like a completely different game than what I had been playing. My jaw was to the floor.

In true WTF mode, I hit ‘rematch’, changed the sliders to my profile settings and promptly pitched a 6 hit 1 run gem. Same pitchers, same team, same strategy of just pitching low and outside. The even the one run was scored cheaply as a tiring Pavano gave up two walks and a single in the seventh.

My settings where different from default were as follows:

Pitching difficulty -50
User control -50
Foul balls cpu +40
Foul balls user +40
CPU Swing Frequency -10

That’s it.

JRod just mentioned that he thinks the foul ball settings mess up hitting. I’d be curious to hear more about that. In my case, I think it was the swing frequency setting. When I was getting punished in that first game, all settings at 0, *almost all* of the thumped hits…homers, doubles, etc were happening on the VERY FIRST PITCH of the at bat. Like I said, it felt like a different game. I don’t know if Leebo, you recall a similar pattern of first ball thumping.

Anyway, it seems like I may have f***ed the game up with the sliders. (Not the gurus’ fault, nor the fault of the sliders themselves…my fault )

I’m also more inclined to think it was the swing frequency setting because with the foul balls jacked I had a nice offensive game in the second game, plating 9.

For all I know, the CPU analyzes your past pitching pattern and utilizes that to ‘guess’ on the first pitch of the next at bat. Maybe if my setting thwarted that, it goes to some other mode when behind in the count. I can’t stress enough how different the two experiences were, and how different that first game was from anything I had been experiencing for the past few days. Maybe I'm wrong to reverse myself after such little evidence, but more than just the result, the game played differently.

I guess this means I’ll have to live with lower pitch counts and more first ball hitting, but I don’t care at this point.

And damned if I’m not sorry for making a bit of a ruckus, here. I’ve been playing games long enough to know that my settings could have f***ed things up. Thankfully, I’ve also been here long enough to know that when I see a certain bunch of names here on DSP seeing things vastly different than from what I’m seeing, there’s a good chance *I’m* the one doing something wrong.

So thanks, guys. Feel free to hit me with whatever ‘told-ya-so’s’ or denigrations you want to hurl my way.

I’d be curious to hear if any others notice such a dramatic change if they tweak that frequency slider.

[MizzouRah]

I haven't seen this problem, seems like my low and away pitches get crushed. lol...


Todd

[kicko]

this is such an non issue, if you choose to play the game wrong then the results will vary, so just pitch like a pitcher not a jackass

[bkrich83]

JRod,

I agree with you. Yep, pitching low and away in real baseball is effective. It’s also generally safer, as I was finding it in the game. I said as much myself in earlier posts. The problem I was having is that the cpu didn’t seem to be adapting *at all*. In real life, if a batter knew all the pitcher was going to do was throw low and away *all the time*, they would get some hits. In MVP, it was simply no fun that you could sit in one zone all game and not worry about batters learning to go there and punish you.

Here’s where I eat crow, so heap up my plate, boys, I’m late for dinner.

I just played a game on all-star default and got pounded by the Cardinals. I gave up 10 runs for the game, I had Pavano stay in for all of it. It felt like a completely different game than what I had been playing. My jaw was to the floor.

In true WTF mode, I hit ‘rematch’, changed the sliders to my profile settings and promptly pitched a 6 hit 1 run gem. Same pitchers, same team, same strategy of just pitching low and outside. The even the one run was scored cheaply as a tiring Pavano gave up two walks and a single in the seventh.

My settings where different from default were as follows:

Pitching difficulty -50
User control -50
Foul balls cpu +40
Foul balls user +40
CPU Swing Frequency -10

That’s it.

JRod just mentioned that he thinks the foul ball settings mess up hitting. I’d be curious to hear more about that. In my case, I think it was the swing frequency setting. When I was getting punished in that first game, all settings at 0, *almost all* of the thumped hits…homers, doubles, etc were happening on the VERY FIRST PITCH of the at bat. Like I said, it felt like a different game. I don’t know if Leebo, you recall a similar pattern of first ball thumping.

Anyway, it seems like I may have f***ed the game up with the sliders. (Not the gurus’ fault, nor the fault of the sliders themselves…my fault )

I’m also more inclined to think it was the swing frequency setting because with the foul balls jacked I had a nice offensive game in the second game, plating 9.

For all I know, the CPU analyzes your past pitching pattern and utilizes that to ‘guess’ on the first pitch of the next at bat. Maybe if my setting thwarted that, it goes to some other mode when behind in the count. I can’t stress enough how different the two experiences were, and how different that first game was from anything I had been experiencing for the past few days. Maybe I'm wrong to reverse myself after such little evidence, but more than just the result, the game played differently.

I guess this means I’ll have to live with lower pitch counts and more first ball hitting, but I don’t care at this point.

And damned if I’m not sorry for making a bit of a ruckus, here. I’ve been playing games long enough to know that my settings could have f***ed things up. Thankfully, I’ve also been here long enough to know that when I see a certain bunch of names here on DSP seeing things vastly different than from what I’m seeing, there’s a good chance *I’m* the one doing something wrong.

So thanks, guys. Feel free to hit me with whatever ‘told-ya-so’s’ or denigrations you want to hurl my way.

I’d be curious to hear if any others notice such a dramatic change if they tweak that frequency slider.

So web, whats the verdict, play on A-S Default?

My biggest issue with MVP was lack of CPU hitting like you were having.

[MizzouRah]

I've been saying All-Star defaults from Day 1. There's been times where I wanted to mess with the sliders, but I didn't and the next game would be just what I was trying to accomplish. I had 3 tight low scoring games in Cincinnati, but that ballpark seems so small - back home in Busch, my scores were back up.

I forget in baseball you have to take a much bigger sample and then see where you're at. AS defaults are perfect for my level of play against the CPU. When my friends come over, I like Pro.


Todd

[Leebo33]

I played some more tonight and I still think the biggest culprits are the pitching sliders. If you make them too hard then you end up walking the CPU a couple times and getting higher pitch counts, but you are eliminating a lot of hittable pitches.

I really don't think we are ever going to find sliders that allow for realistic human walks. However, I think you can still have a ton of fun with the game and if you truly fear the CPU you will walk at least 2-3 batters a game.

In fact, I always wondered why I gave up so many runs on default Pro while everyone else was shutting out the CPU on All-Star. I also wondered why I would run into these spells where the offense would dry up. Well, it was usually after I started a season and felt I needed to tweak the pitching sliders. That's when I started ending up with all the 2-1 games after having a high scoring opening series of the season on default.

[JRod]

I've been saying All-Star defaults from Day 1. There's been times where I wanted to mess with the sliders, but I didn't and the next game would be just what I was trying to accomplish. I had 3 tight low scoring games in Cincinnati, but that ballpark seems so small - back home in Busch, my scores were back up.

I forget in baseball you have to take a much bigger sample and then see where you're at. AS defaults are perfect for my level of play against the CPU. When my friends come over, I like Pro.


Todd

The only problem I have with default, is that the CPU will swing too much early in the count at junk. In a default game I was in the 9th with only 75 pitches throw. I struck out 10 with 75 pitches? I think I ended up in the low 80s.

I think the KEY to semi-realistic counts is human pitcher control. It is far too easy to hit spot even in the -50, -50 realm.

What I LOVE about default is that while the CPU will swing too early at bad pitches you can get them to chase easier. If you use Pareds or Heels sliders, you have to throw strikes all day because they will not chase outside. Usually I'll get them to chase if the variable zone is quite large.

I think the only way to get that a more perfect balance it to edit your pitching staff. I haven't tested this yet but I'm almost positive that this will f up simmed stats.

MVP is really really close but I don't think without edits, I'm going to find a good blend of realistic pitch counts, realistic CPU batting tendencies and human walks.

[MizzouRah]

I'm to the point, I ignore pitch counts... doesn't bother me anymore.

I've taken to the fact that something like bbmogul, ootp, or puresim, will cure that "statistic" itch I get. I have a different way I look at sports games on the consoles and it's helped my enjoyment of MVP. I'm going to quit spending time slider adjusting, lineup analysing, and worrying so much about accuracy and just take the game for what it is.


Todd

[JRod]

I'm to the point, I ignore pitch counts... doesn't bother me anymore.

I've taken to the fact that something like bbmogul, ootp, or puresim, will cure that "statistic" itch I get. I have a different way I look at sports games on the consoles and it's helped my enjoyment of MVP. I'm going to quit spending time slider adjusting, lineup analysing, and worrying so much about accuracy and just take the game for what it is.


Todd

You're a better man than me.

[bkrich83]

I'm to the point, I ignore pitch counts... doesn't bother me anymore.

I've taken to the fact that something like bbmogul, ootp, or puresim, will cure that "statistic" itch I get. I have a different way I look at sports games on the consoles and it's helped my enjoyment of MVP. I'm going to quit spending time slider adjusting, lineup analysing, and worrying so much about accuracy and just take the game for what it is.


Todd

I think I am nearing this point myself. Going to just continue my MVP dynasty on AS default. Seems like it's playing a good game of baseball for me.

[MizzouRah]

I'm to the point, I ignore pitch counts... doesn't bother me anymore.

I've taken to the fact that something like bbmogul, ootp, or puresim, will cure that "statistic" itch I get. I have a different way I look at sports games on the consoles and it's helped my enjoyment of MVP. I'm going to quit spending time slider adjusting, lineup analysing, and worrying so much about accuracy and just take the game for what it is.


Todd

I think I am nearing this point myself. Going to just continue my MVP dynasty on AS default. Seems like it's playing a good game of baseball for me.

Not to mention going from MVP to MLB and vice-versa has really messed up my timing in MVP once again. Arrghh!


Todd

[bkrich83]

I'm to the point, I ignore pitch counts... doesn't bother me anymore.

I've taken to the fact that something like bbmogul, ootp, or puresim, will cure that "statistic" itch I get. I have a different way I look at sports games on the consoles and it's helped my enjoyment of MVP. I'm going to quit spending time slider adjusting, lineup analysing, and worrying so much about accuracy and just take the game for what it is.


Todd

I think I am nearing this point myself. Going to just continue my MVP dynasty on AS default. Seems like it's playing a good game of baseball for me.

Not to mention going from MVP to MLB and vice-versa has really messed up my timing in MVP once again. Arrghh!


Todd

Same problem.

As it stands now, I Am going to play MVP for franchise, and MLB for Career mode. I am really digging the career mode in MLB. Just playing my atbats basically.

[Danimal]

Well I tested this last night and then again tonight (since I didn't want to just do a one game test) I had varied results.

First game, All Star Cubs vs D-Backs and I pitched Prior. My pitch meter set to -35 which is where I play, nothing but 4 seamers. In 5 innings he gave up 8 runs and I think 17 hits, 3-4 dingers. I kind of forget now, I had it written down earlier but the damm site was down all day.

So tonight I try it with Wood against the same D-Backs. I set the pitching meter back to 0, so I didn't miss the release point that much. Much different results, 5 hits, 3 runs and all 3 were solo shots.

So my conclusion is, this is not a game killer. Pitching low and away is probably a little too effective if you hit the release point everytime, but if not for this being brought up I would have never even attempted it.

Bottom line if this is my biggest gripe about this game, I'll still be happy with it. Again it is all what you can live with.

[BasketballJones]

It's a game killer if you go there too often is on L. Todd Helton low and away against Batty Zito and Eric Gagne (fantasy draft) 4 for 4, 1 dinger. Tike Redmond 2-4. I'm in May and Tike has 7 homers and a 347 BA. Redmond has been called before the MVP Senate commitee to testify cause this Tike don't smack like that in the Burgh. Didn't work on Troy Glaus either 3-4. I also got a rule that I have to challenge and throw in the red. So I guess it could be a killer if you let it.

[matthewk]

Won't ANY spot you pitch to be too effective if you can always hit the perfect release point? I know that when I hit the "perfect" point, the hitters don't make contact as often, which makes sense because you are making a great pitch vs. a decent or even bad one.

I think this whole issue is a non-issue. If anyone has mentally convinced themselves that this is a real problem, then please move on to 2k5 and tweak your 30 sliders for the next 10 days in order to get that game to play right. Still, all the sliders in the world won't help you when the pitchers bat cleanup, saves are given to outfielders, and you end up playing the same game 3 times in a row in order to get past it.


OK, I'm done ranting now

[webdanzer]

So web, whats the verdict, play on A-S Default?

My biggest issue with MVP was lack of CPU hitting like you were having.

I'd recommend giving it a shot for a game or two, BK. It seemed to make a drastic difference in CPU hitting for me. Eventually I may tinker around to see if I can isolate which of the sliders may have affected the CPU offense so much. Did you use many/any of the same adjustments?

[MizzouRah]

I think I am nearing this point myself. Going to just continue my MVP dynasty on AS default. Seems like it's playing a good game of baseball for me.

Not to mention going from MVP to MLB and vice-versa has really messed up my timing in MVP once again. Arrghh!


Todd

Same problem.

As it stands now, I Am going to play MVP for franchise, and MLB for Career mode. I am really digging the career mode in MLB. Just playing my atbats basically.

Ditto for me BK. I'm holding onto MLB 2006 if for nothing else the career mode.

Todd

[pk500]

Well, I'm sorry if I opened a big maggot-infested can of worms with this thread.

I played three games of MVP 2005 last night after I bought it, and all three were classics.

The best game came when I played as the Cubs at Wrigley and trailed Washington, 2-0, in the bottom of the ninth. I had a man on first, two out and hit a deep shot to left that the CPU left-fielder snared out of the ivy after leaping, ending the game.

It was awesome. All stats were believable, and the game was tense as hell. I was playing on Pro, everything default. Yeah, I suck.

Bottom line: MVP 2005 is the baseball game for me this year. I'm enjoying it immensely, and it's slowly creeping toward WE 8 and ESPN NHL 2K5 class the more I play it.

Take care,
PK