ToCA Monday Night Medium Length Race

pigpen81 · Post by **pigpen81** » Mon May 17, 2004 8:20 pm

I'll be on by 12:30 EST.....I have a rec basketball game tonight...

Is it possible to move this in the future to Wednesday?.....much better night to play

K_Mosley · Post by **K_Mosley** » Tue May 18, 2004 9:28 am

Sorry I missed out, Zeppo... My wife was doing some work on the internet, and I fell asleep about 10:00 PM! Hope the race was fun...

Kevin

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:32 am

boy I was so bad on that track with that car.....by the time I got the hang of the track, it was way too late and I was hopelessly behind. Was still fun racing with you guys anyway. I would love the idea of an "A" and "B" division for a weekly league if possible. The "A" division could be maybe 1600 and above and the "B"'s could be everyone below 1600. Just an idea. It's just a lot more fun when you are "in" the race for a while.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:37 am

Wahoo!

That was pretty fun, fellahs. Somehow, at least for me, that first turn was nice and neat. I had slimer just in my view the entire race after I pitted, and had a perfect chance on the final lap to catch him, thanks to some good ol' lap traffic slowing him up. But I flubbed my chance. Still that was a pretty interesting 19 laps for me, but I couldn't for the life of me break 1:38.

I wasn't able to jot down the finishing order very well. That screen disappears so very quickly. DChaps is going to be trying to catch the screens on his digi camera (or in some other way, if he can figure that out), but I think I need to ask the top two finishers to jot down the finishing order, since they have the most time. It would be redundant if DChaps is in the room, but I think it would be a good habit for drivers to get into. What I did last night was jot down the start order, and then try to jot down the finishing positions onto that list; I still didn't get very far, but I forgot to start right away, I was relaxing after the long race!

Otherwise, I thought the race went well. Poor Carl; I was all up his a** about 'drive clean,' and he gets HAMMERED later in the race! **oops** But it was good to have some new blood in the mix. Mistakes hapen on the race course; that's why we run longer races, so you have a chance to recover.

I need to do better with checking my firends list for stragglers in between sessions. I completely forgot to look, and I hope no one showed up after 10:40 and wanted in. We had that one extra slot, but couldn't fit both Mix and Fshguy, who I saw out there (and who I knew meant to sign up

). Other than that, I didn't see anyone, but like I said, I failed to check between sessions.

Anway, as far as I was able to reconstruct (i had NO hope of getting down the times):

1.) TCrouch
2.) BBReBozo
3.) SR Slimer
4.) CP Zeppo
5.) Webdanzer
6.) Slumberland
7.) Carl JR
8.)
9.) Blublub
10.) Granatofan
11.)

So James_E and JackB1 finished either 8 or 11, I think James_E was 8 and Jack was 11, but I'm not sure.

Good racing guys. I'm going to figure out a sign-up for the series where we'll keep points (otherwise known as the 'season' or the 'real deal'), which of course will start with the four Formula Ford events. I like Granatofans promotion/relegation system, though maybe 2 or 3 moving up and down would be better than 4. The issue is, will we have enough to make that work (need at least 16 total, but could fit 24 total)? On any given week, of course, if only 12 show up to race, then we all race in the one room. But if we have 13 or 14, that's going to be tough. But I think it's a good way to get it started, so I will have a sign-up sheet sometime later this week.

Thanks for racing with me guys. I like these longer races!

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:45 am

That was definitely a hellatious "welcome back" race. 2 weeks with no TOCA, and I get to try to take a GT40 around Surfer's Paradise...I hooked that first chicane on the 2nd lap and had to pit 5 laps in. Nothing like driving the final 14 laps paranoid that you'll wreck again.

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:49 am

Sorry I missed out last night guys. While I got home from softball in plenty of time to race, I had a terrible migraine so I was out of commission! (I have chronic migraines, anyone have any suggestions??? I have been to doctors and have meds but still get them prety bad..)

Anyway, glad you guys had a good race. Hope to be there next session!

mixdj1 · Post by **mixdj1** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:54 am

Zeppo:

I didn't sign up because I had some stuff to do around the house and didn't think I would be able to do the full race session. Fshguy and I were just running some laps for fun when I got the invite but since it looked like you only had one spot and I knew I couldn't stay I had to decline. I told Fshguy to send you an invite so you'd know he was available to fill up a spot but you were probably into the race by then. But I'm definitely in for the league when it starts up.

Oh, and what's the plan for tonight? GR:IT? SC:PT? I can host whatever everyone wants to play.

mixdj1

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:54 am

F*ck all of you. I hate you all.

Seriously, I really feel as if I'm missing out. Woe is me. Glad you cats are having great races.

I'm looking forward to getting back behind the virtual wheel with you fellas in two weeks.

Take care,
PK

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:09 pm

Well, PK, by the time you get back, won't IndyCar be out? And won't FSW be close? Or am I mistaken??

And Mix, let's do some type of gaming. GR is good if you can host enough to get Poker Night going. Or maybe we could try some missions. Of course, i am always up fro SC if we have a foursome. Perhaps you should start a new thread, and see what kind of response we get?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:16 pm

Zep:

Release dates, both for Xbox:

FSW: June 1
IndyCar Series 2005: June 22

But there always will be time for TOCA 2 for me. It's a once-in-a-console-generation game, as far as I'm concerned. Best console racer I've ever played.

Take care,
PK

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue May 18, 2004 12:16 pm

Zeppo wrote:
And Mix, let's do some type of gaming. GR is good if you can host enough to get Poker Night going. Or maybe we could try some missions. Of course, i am always up fro SC if we have a foursome. Perhaps you should start a new thread, and see what kind of response we get?

Sh*t, I am out for tonight too.

Have a friend in town and will be out most of the night (unless you guys are on somewhat late at which point I would join in)...

slimer · Post by **slimer** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:04 pm

Great racing last night.

Zep was in my rear-view mirror the whole race, except for the few laps where we staggered our pits, and he held out to collect points for leading a lap.

The cool thing was that I knew exactly where Zeppo was faster than me, so I was trying to make sure I had enough separation before I hit tha corner so he didn't get by. I went in the pits with Terry at 5 laps mainly because I wanted to watch his line some more. He must have been rusty since I was able to somewhat keep up with him for a while. At least until we encountered lap traffic and he was able to blow right through it and I wasn't.

What is the view on that first chicane at Surfer's Paradise? What is considered cheese there? I saw a bunch of different approaches to it, and took a bunch of different approaches myself depending on how bad I missed my brake point and traffic in the area.

I love Surfer's Parardise, especially on long races, because you have to decide how aggressive you want to be through the chicanes with those extremely hard walls jutting out. I can take those much faster in a hot-lap situation, but I was afraid to let it all hang out in a 19 lapper. I didn't want a major run in with a wall to affect my race. That being said, I still turned sideways coming out on one turn, and I think caused everybody behind me to have to check up severely.

Blublub · Post by **Blublub** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:08 pm

Fun race last night and showed me how much I still have to learn. The relegation system sounds like a great idea, and I gladly volunteer to start in division 2.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:28 pm

I think the first chicanes are fair game in my opinion. The biggest reason is, if you're bouncing those curbs, it's still pavement inside. You also run the risk of throwing your car out of balance if you take it under power and mistime it. That's what killed me on lap 2.

Some of the other corners I try not to cut until I see cones gone and evidence that others are doing it. I was following Carl through that first really big left after the chicanes (with the grass inside) and he was like 1 foot away from the wall, just hopping the grass. I've done it a few times by mistake, trying to get away from somebody or what have you, but for the most part I try not to. If I see cones gone after 1 lap, that means SOMEBODY is doing it, and it's not like it will cut off 10 seconds of a lap. Even if you cut some of those corners, you won't save much time over the normal line (higher exit speed, especially at the last little corner before the long straight).

So to me, those chicanes are hard enough to get through. If you have to slow down SO much that you bottleneck traffic, it's asking for an incident. Since it's pavement inside and takes some skill to hit those curbs without f*cking yourself, I see no reason to say that it's illegal or anything.

Just my opinion, of course. It's not like cutting a chicane with grass and straightlining it...you still have to take the chicane at Surfer's.

slimer · Post by **slimer** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:40 pm

I agree on the first chicane, if a few people are flying through there and the rest are staying only on the track surface, it becomes a danger to everybody.

The two grass areas I try to stay way from because the only way I can gain time through those turns is just blatant cheese. I have to admit on the qualifying lap 2, I followed Carl's JR right through the grass. I had him set up for a pass at that turn until I saw him zoom right thru the grass. So I followed him right in, I still didn't pass him though.

slimer · Post by **slimer** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:45 pm

Maybe we could post ground-rules for each track on raceday so that we are all on the same page. I know that some of the GPL leagues have exhaustive ground-rules for each track. I am not suggesting anything to that extent.

Our only rule so far, has been to stay on the track and to not cut corners. But the first chicane at Surfer's may be a good example of where that rule my be relaxed a little, since it is such a bottleneck with the potential to completely destroy you car.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:47 pm

The funny part to me is, "cutting" could be defined as going off the track. The chicanes at Surfer's just throw some curbs there but it's still track. I've seen real races and those bastards cut those curbs at chicanes like that every time...if it's paved, it's still technically track, no?

I try to keep at least 2 wheels on the pavement at all times, but sometimes I miss

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 18, 2004 1:52 pm

>>>I have to admit on the qualifying lap 2, I followed Carl's JR right through the grass. I had him set up for a pass at that turn until I saw him zoom right thru the grass. So I followed him right in, I still didn't pass him though.<<<

Well, if Carl or anyone repeatedly cuts chicanes, I hope you toss their ass. We don't need that sh*t.

Out,
PK

slimer · Post by **slimer** » Tue May 18, 2004 2:00 pm

I am NOT accusing anyone of cutting. Carl did an amazing job for his first online racing experience. Obviously, he has raced plenty offline and/or in other games.

You had to be there for the qualifying race, it was a little, A-HEM, aggressive. But fun.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 18, 2004 2:01 pm

I'm not trying to single out Carl by the way. I know everybody here has cut a corner at some point. There is the long-standing DSP rule of "don't do it", and we all try to obey in a race. However, I am pretty guilty of going "well if this guy is gonna cut it, how many other guys are cutting it?". Then I'll follow suit. I don't know why, as I shouldn't exactly worry about getting caught from behind because of a chicane. But it's definitely a domino effect with me. It's the same way in football or any other game I play. I will play against a person the way they play against me. If they cheese me in an NFL game, I'll obliterate them. If I see people hit the grass (or evidence of it happening), I'll race them the same way.

I think I cut the 90 degree grass corner about 5 times last night, 3 of them unintentionally (trying to get the 2 wheeler and turning in too early).

I think in Carl's case in particular, he probably had no idea that a rule about it even existed. He's a definite PGR2 racer, and it's not like there was a TON of places to do it in there.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 18, 2004 2:04 pm

Speaking of the qualifying race, personally I think that's absurd. Not accusing anybody of anything at all, but the warmup race going reversed for a 2 lapper? So I go out and race my ass off in a warmup race and try to figure out why 3 or 4 guys just flat out retire. Then I see that I start 11th in a 2 lap race. That's kind of insane. Why not make it random or something? I guarantee (and nobody will admit to it) there were a few sandbag jobs in the warmup just to start out front in the 2-lapper.

Granted, in the grand scheme of things it's still just placing for a 19 lap event, but why deal with extra traffic due to a strange qualifying procedure? A 2 lapper is just asking for trouble on 2 fronts: sandbagging in the warmup to start up front, and guys beating the sn*t out of each other to get a decent start in the real race.

slimer · Post by **slimer** » Tue May 18, 2004 2:16 pm

The qualifying race grid was actually determined by rating not previous finish. So the outcome of the warmup did not factor in.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 18, 2004 2:25 pm

Either way, you still have guys who are faster, forced to blast through traffic on a tight track in 2 laps? Just seems bizarre. I guess my rating was the highest and placed first, so either way I was screwed, but that's just weird. It's asking for cornholing and bashing?

BBReBozo · Post by **BBReBozo** » Tue May 18, 2004 2:26 pm

TCrouch complaining about the qualifying format is like Muhammad Ali bitching that the midget he's about to fight is too short.

TCrouch · Post by **TCrouch** » Tue May 18, 2004 2:56 pm

Me complaining about the qualifying format wasn't for me. It's probably the only race I'll be in (last night's). It was just a strange system is all. You set up a sprint race with the fast guys at the back, invariably causing a huge clusterf*ck of cars as the fast guys try to blast through the slow guys as quickly as possible.