Tiger Woods 14 thread, part II

[MERACE]

There's a good discussion about handicap tournaments going on here:

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/9232761.page


-MERACE

[DivotMaker]

Handicapped events for Country Clubs is being discussed in a TW15 thread at the EA Tiger forums if you want to jump in there and give your thoughts on this.....

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/9232761.page

[J_Cauthen]

That is indeed a great discussion going on in that thread... what's so shocking is that both sides of the discussion are being civil to each other and making valid points, pro and con. It awoke me to the size of the pro handicap segment. It's a topic that for whatever reason has never even registered with me, even though I at one time had a registered handicap (it was an integral part of a club membership I had). If this would bring more gamers into the fold and increase the market size for Tiger Woods golf games, I'm all for it... at the Country Club level.

I'm concerned for the financial health of this franchise, which has seen the sales drop steadily since Tiger Woods 09, save for a minor bump with Tiger12, thanks for the first time inclusion of Augusta National. I think there's enough interest in an integrated handicapping system for Tiger Woods golf games to warrant its inclusion in future iterations from a profit standpoint.

[J_Cauthen]

Perhaps I am reading it wrong but it seems to me the live scores will only work with a single tournament with 24 active participants at the same time. I find that a lofty goal considering we couldn't get more than 15 people to play in an event last year on their own schedules.

Okay, what I got back on this was that you would only get the updates from the players who were concurrently playing in your current round of the 72 hole tournament. I bet we'll see 18 hole updated scores for those who aren't in your round, however. I do wish there was a way they could hide the scores of those who've already played, and unfold their scores as you play your round. I don't think they can pull that off the way this simultaneous tracker tool will work though.

[Danimal]

In the end JC if they make the golf more realistic then I can deal with whatever the CC offers. I still think a live tournament would be awesome if we could go out in groups of 3 or 4.

I'm sure in a few weeks we will hear the yearly "The game is really hard this year, you won't see -40 scores on the highest difficulty levels" and then a week after the game launches we will see those scores. Happens every year. I hope I am wrong but I'll need to see it to believe it. Who knows maybe they added a real sim mode.

Fortunately I have been getting my golf fix with Total Pro Golf 3 the text based sim because I am not lucky enough to live anywhere I can play for real yet.

[J_Cauthen]

In the end JC if they make the golf more realistic then I can deal with whatever the CC offers. I still think a live tournament would be awesome if we could go out in groups of 3 or 4.

I think the scoring will be more realistic in Tournament difficulty, whether it will be because of more realistic difficulty remains to be seen. I'll explain my suspicions on this later. I doubt we'll be able to play Live Tournaments in traditional, multiplayer H2H groups, but this simultaneous bit at least sounds like it has a chance to be considerably better than what we've had.

I'm sure in a few weeks we will hear the yearly "The game is really hard this year, you won't see -40 scores on the highest difficulty levels" and then a week after the game launches we will see those scores. Happens every year. I hope I am wrong but I'll need to see it to believe it. Who knows maybe they added a real sim mode.

Now on to my suspicion about the scoring difficulty. What if the scoring difficulty in this year's game is at least partially a product of having to hold a cursor at a specific point on the ball in the "strike meter" to fade or draw a shot to the extent desired? There were times in last year's game where we had to hold the cursor on a certain 'height' on the ball to dig it out of the sand or rough and that, at times, resulted in some disastrous shots. It was at least proportionally scaled in result and difficulty (at least in tournament difficulty), but it could be even more difficult to work the ball based on how far right or left you were of the "Y" axis with the strike meter cursor at impact.

This is something I've picked up in the breeze and is mostly speculation on my part, but I'm thinking if they go with something like this, how analogous would this be to a golf swing in a dynamic sense? Not very in my book. And where have we seen this approach before? Hot Shots Golf uses this technique as one option for fading or drawing. I hope I'm wrong about this, or at least we'll have more traditional "stance" setup options for achieving fade or draw.

[DivotMaker]

Great discussion on gameplay and presentation in the following thread on the EA Tiger forums.....

http://forum.ea.com/eaforum/posts/list/ ... e#26774531

Mike DeVault of the TW14 Dev team let loose with some additional hints as to what direction TW14 is going in response to gameplay and presentation....

[Danimal]

This is something I've picked up in the breeze and is mostly speculation on my part, but I'm thinking if they go with something like this, how analogous would this be to a golf swing in a dynamic sense? Not very in my book.

I don't think I would like to play a round doing that on every shot. In the end I realize it is a game and most people dig shooting -40 and I guess if I want to shoot a low 80 I can go play real golf.

I'll wait to see what they release on game play. Should be soon I would think.

[J_Cauthen]

I don't think I would like to play a round doing that on every shot. In the end I realize it is a game and most people dig shooting -40 and I guess if I want to shoot a low 80 I can go play real golf.

I've learned that the Hot Shots Golf-esque strike meter swing input element I theorized might be in the game is not what we'll see. It's an innovation that the Gamechangers presented during Community Day. I guess we'll learn more about it whenever its time in the promotional cycle comes. This control innovation will be on "ON" by default in certain levels, but apparently can be turned "OFF", if desired.

I'll wait to see what they release on game play. Should be soon I would think.

I hope so... the rollout of this product is taking a really low tack at this point. I liked the blogs they used last year to introduce game features, but this one is really low key so far.

[J_Cauthen]

I don't think I would like to play a round doing that on every shot. In the end I realize it is a game and most people dig shooting -40 and I guess if I want to shoot a low 80 I can go play real golf.

I've learned that the Hot Shots Golf-esque strike meter swing input element I theorized might be in the game is not what we'll see. It's an innovation that the Gamechangers presented during Community Day. I guess we'll learn more about it whenever its time in the promotional cycle comes. This control innovation will be on "ON" by default in certain levels, but apparently can be turned "OFF", if desired.

I'll wait to see what they release on game play. Should be soon I would think.

I hope so... the rollout of this product is taking a really low tack at this point. I liked the blogs they used last year to introduce game features, but this one is really low key so far.

[MERACE]

John:

I would like to see the use of the other analog stick during the swing like what was featured in the ProStroke Golf: World Tour 2007. The other analog stick was used to simulate shifting of your weight to your back foot and onto your front foot. It gave you an additional 10% power if performed properly and the good thing about it was you did not have to use it if you didn't want to.

What I'm a little concerned about this additional feature on the swing meter in TW14 is if I will have to look at the meter instead of my golfer when making my swing.


-MERACE

[J_Cauthen]

John:

I would like to see the use of the other analog stick during the swing like what was featured in the ProStroke Golf: World Tour 2007. The other analog stick was used to simulate shifting of your weight to your back foot and onto your front foot. It gave you an additional 10% power if performed properly and the good thing about it was you did not have to use it if you didn't want to.

I remember that and it took a good deal of coordination to master... felt good when it did though. What I didn't like about it was that if I recall correctly, you had to move the thumbsticks left to right for that to work. I was horrible at tracking the Z axis versus the Y axis. I had trouble keeping the ball in play, let alone on the fairway

What I'm a little concerned about this additional feature on the swing meter in TW14 is if I will have to look at the meter instead of my golfer when making my swing.

Excellent point! I'm all about getting rid of as many meters and HUD's off the screen while I'm swinging as possible. If I'm having to watch a meter instead of my golfer, that takes me "out of the moment" for that portion of the swing. It does sound like it's something we can turn off in any level. It would be somewhat comparable to grids now. Tournament difficulty actually defaults to "no-grid" in the Online Country Club Tournament set-up screen. I turn it off for six out of seven tournaments a week, yet it keeps the game at Tournament difficulty.

[J_Cauthen]

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[10spro]

At the end of the day, when playing Live Tournaments I'd like to see a mode that represents actual PGA tour golf. I wish they would just make it so hard that we could complain about that, instead of the other way around. I know that if I see a dude with a score of -60 after 4 rounds, I tend to think twice before entering that particular event.

We'll see.

[DivotMaker]

At the end of the day, when playing Live Tournaments I'd like to see a mode that represents actual PGA tour golf. I wish they would just make it so hard that we could complain about that, instead of the other way around. I know that if I see a dude with a score of -60 after 4 rounds, I tend to think twice before entering that particular event.

We'll see.

Yep, we'll see soon.....

[DivotMaker]

Also, 44 total courses will be available including 4 fantasy courses (IOW 40 courses)......20 on the Standard version and 25 on Historic. The rest are DLC and I hope they listened to us during the TW CD event in how they package and price those DLC courses....

[Danimal]

At the end of the day, when playing Live Tournaments I'd like to see a mode that represents actual PGA tour golf. I wish they would just make it so hard that we could complain about that, instead of the other way around. I know that if I see a dude with a score of -60 after 4 rounds, I tend to think twice before entering that particular event.

We'll see.

What are the odds by the end of the first week someone will shoot -40 in the hardest EA sponsored tournament available?

[Leadfoot5]

I'm less concerned about EA making the game so hard that nobody can post "unrealistic" scores on the hardest settings, and more concerned about the game matching me up with players of equal skill. This way, everyone gets a good experience.

And after spending countless hours with a game like TW, I kinda like to post a ridiculously low score every now and then on the expert settings. Of course the wind has to be dead and the greens easy/slow for me to do it, but it's fun to do every now and then. I'd hate it if the game was so hard on the expert setting that the best I could do is around par. Sounds like I'm in the minority around here.

[10spro]

Of course the wind has to be dead and the greens easy/slow for me to do it, but it's fun to do every now and then. I'd hate it if the game was so hard on the expert setting that the best I could do is around par. Sounds like I'm in the minority around here.

Can't remember if it was the cross wind at 20+ mph that was broken last year or what but I hated playing with these unrealistic conditions at time. I am with you that I want a good challenge at the expert or tournament mode where I may struggle the first round at par, shoot a -5 in the second, improve again a bit in the weekend but not the -18, -20 scores a round I was seeing on Live tourneys even at the highest settings.

Perhaps there are players out there that despite terrible weather conditions, can still nail every single shot in the middle of the fairway, they are just that good.

But what I meant by making things harder and having a mode simulating a PGA event is that if the best players like TW or Rory miss the cut as it happened in Abu Dhabi, the same scenario can be applied in those Live tournaments.

[Leadfoot5]

I agree, but from a programmatic standpoint, I don't think there is an easy solution that the developers can implement short of artificially altering your shots if you're starting to score too high. There's only so much they can do with the motion of the thumbsticks. And even if they are able to find the perfect sweet spot of difficulty and playability, it will still take the punks less than a week to figure out how to game the system and post stupid scores.

Can't wait to be proven wrong.

[Danimal]

I agree, but from a programmatic standpoint, I don't think there is an easy solution that the developers can implement short of artificially altering your shots if you're starting to score too high.

I don't get this statement. The game is using ratings, your swing with the sticks, weather, lie etc so the whole game is artificially affecting your shot. My gosh if it wasn't and it was just a matter of aim, pull stick back and push forward you would get -100 scores.

There are all sorts of things that can be done to make the score more accurately simulate PGA scores if they want to. You could remove the aiming top down view first of all. You just aim by aligning your golfer that would make it harder right there.

You make the attributes more useful when it comes to game play so that someone with bad accuracy has their shots miss more often and for petes sake don't let people pimp out there golfers so that they hit every shot 300+ yards with the accuracy of a rifle and a scope.

The actual swing mechanic should only be one part of it IMO and it seems right now it plays too much of a role in the shot result.

[J_Cauthen]

My thinking on the game difficulty is that if they can design the interface such that a better than average gamer hits 65% FIR and maybe 70% GIR, in tournament difficulty, the scoring realism and game challenge will take care of itself. It is too easy to hit fairways and greens in regulation off the tee in Tiger 13. I don't see slices and hooks in last year's game; I see pull draws and push fades. The ball flight properties just didn't seem to reflect what the post shot swing feedback meter was showing me.

I want to feel like I've played as though I've played as good as I can play to shoot 62, and be happy with an average score of 70 in Tournament difficulty.

I have little doubt that the difficulty is going to be ratcheted up some this year. If that happens, it will impact the average and slightly better than average players more than the elite players disproportionately more. For example, a player who won a 72 hole tournament with a 60 under par total in '13, might shoot 48 under in Tiger 14, where the average player who shot 20 under might shoot 6 under. This is all speculation as I don't know how the interface/programming has been changed to step up the scoring realism in Tiger 14. I would love to call up a 72 hole Live Tournament leaderboard and never see a 72 hole total of -24, or less, but I know if I did, my chances of coming in at less than 8 over, or better would be slim.

[Aristo]

I bet the mouse swing was way easy to program variability for than the the analog sticks of moden controllers.

You could remove the aiming top down view first of all. You just aim by aligning your golfer that would make it harder right there.

This was in TW 11. It was awesome. No one bought TW 11, so EA concluded it was not wanted. If they had put the frickin' Masters in TW 11, we would be talking about the glorious TrueAim and how it made video game golf so much more compelling.

I could not have been more excited for TW 12. If they added everything else to the gameplay of TW 11, I was going to be in heaven. TW 11 was't perfect, but its gameplay still blows the heck out of the last two games. Yes, the real TrueAim with TW's swing mechanics would have been better. But those swing mechanics were wasted in that game.

[Leadfoot5]

Makes sense guys. But given that they've had years to get it right, my confidence that this year will be any different is very low. That being said, TW was my most played game of last year by far, and I'm sure I'll play this iteration to death too. I don't have a problem with other people posting super low scores in on-line tournaments since I generally play single player or our own Country Club events.

Actually, my most desired feature is simply to be able to compare my current score on a course to my previous best while I'm playing.

[pigpen81]

Makes sense guys. But given that they've had years to get it right, my confidence that this year will be any different is very low. That being said, TW was my most played game of last year by far, and I'm sure I'll play this iteration to death too. I don't have a problem with other people posting super low scores in on-line tournaments since I generally play single player or our own Country Club events.

Actually, my most desired feature is simply to be able to compare my current score on a course to my previous best while I'm playing.

Hell, I am just bitter they discontinued the Wii versions as 11 and 12 with wii motion+ was by far the best and most realistic golf sim ever.