Bowl Games/New Years Let Down

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:21 pm

Wouldn't a Playoff system make just as much if not even more dough for CF?

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:30 pm

Rodster wrote:Wouldn't a Playoff system make just as much if not even more dough for CF?

NOPE. 34 Bowl games would be hard to top. That is 34 bowl sponsors the NCAA makes money on. Deals with the 34 cities that host each bowl, etc, etc.

In a playoff the early games would likely be played at one of the schools stadium. That takes away from the bargaining power and control from the NCAA.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:35 pm

Thats the beauty of the NCAA hypocracy. They are all about money and could care less about anything else..but...when it comes to their slaves..they better not touch a dime...

They are disgusting...

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:59 pm

Could you imagine a College Basketball bowl system?

MUTTS · Post by **MUTTS** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:37 pm

I dont think the NCAA actually controls this thing. Football, unlike basketball, is run differently. The divisions that the NCAA controls: 1-AA, 2 and 3 all have a playoff. Somehow the schools themselves have greater control over football and the BCS is their baby. Someone here may know the details better than I do...but thats the jist of it.

Tony

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:53 pm

bdoughty wrote:
Rodster wrote:Wouldn't a Playoff system make just as much if not even more dough for CF?
NOPE. 34 Bowl games would be hard to top. That is 34 bowl sponsors the NCAA makes money on. Deals with the 34 cities that host each bowl, etc, etc.

In a playoff the early games would likely be played at one of the schools stadium. That takes away from the bargaining power and control from the NCAA.

you've got it backwards. Right now, the NCAA doesn't see a dime from this system. That is why you won't see a playoff. THe big conference don't want to share.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 3:57 pm

fsquid wrote:
you've got it backwards. Right now, the NCAA doesn't see a dime from this system. That is why you won't see a playoff. THe big conference don't want to share.

MUTTS wrote:I dont think the NCAA actually controls this thing. Football, unlike basketball, is run differently. The divisions that the NCAA controls: 1-AA, 2 and 3 all have a playoff. Somehow the schools themselves have greater control over football and the BCS is their baby. Someone here may know the details better than I do...but thats the jist of it.

Tony

I see...If that is the case...

Then sub in "big conference presidents" for NCAA.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:14 pm

The BCS itself is the creation of the conferences and some guy at Notre Dame. The conferences, not individual teams are the reason this system is what it is. While they control it, the NCAA still makes the rules, as they are the governing body. The NCAA has never determined a winner for this division. It has always been left to polls. It has also been that way since 1869.

You have to remember that the lower divisions - for example (Div 1-AA now FCS) was established in the late '70s. They did not have 100+ years of tradition to deal with when setting up a playoff system in it's first year of existence.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:18 pm

fsquid wrote: you've got it backwards. Right now, the NCAA doesn't see a dime from this system. That is why you won't see a playoff. THe big conference don't want to share.

I hope you are kidding my friend. If you do not think the NCAA makes a cut then you probably thought Memphis would hit those free throws down the stretch.

They make a killing from the CLC licensing alone, on product sold in those 34 bowl games.

Edit: Just look at the numbers here. This is just for football post season revenues, etc.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=2223

and for all the info

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=4

Yea, those NCAA guys are paupers. How will they make it to the next paycheck.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:34 pm

For the lazy here is a screen grab. It is a big image so click to view.

5 year summary of POSTSEASON BOWLS, gross receipts.

http://usera.imagecave.com/bdoughty/ncaalovesmoney.gif

For 2007-08 that would be 1,024,487,050 dimes.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:26 pm

fsquid wrote:
bdoughty wrote:
Rodster wrote:Wouldn't a Playoff system make just as much if not even more dough for CF?
NOPE. 34 Bowl games would be hard to top. That is 34 bowl sponsors the NCAA makes money on. Deals with the 34 cities that host each bowl, etc, etc.

In a playoff the early games would likely be played at one of the schools stadium. That takes away from the bargaining power and control from the NCAA.
you've got it backwards. Right now, the NCAA doesn't see a dime from this system. That is why you won't see a playoff. THe big conference don't want to share.

Huh?

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:40 am

The link you posted BD, it shows that they distribute all of the revenue. I don't see a cut for the NCAA

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:01 pm

fsquid wrote:The link you posted BD, it shows that they distribute all of the revenue. I don't see a cut for the NCAA

Look at image, see TOTAL RETAINED BY SPONSORING AGENCY (that is the NCAA).

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:27 am

IMO Wilbon nailed it.

Bowled Over
By Michael Wilbon
Friday, January 2, 2009; 10:35 AM

SCOTTSDALE, Ariz.

I'd never taken a long walk on New Year's Day. Never been bargain hunting on New Year's Day, never been to a beach on New Year's Day.

I've never been to church, never been to a restaurant, never been to a friend's house. Never, not once in 39 years of single life, did I ever have a date on New Year's Day. Never, not once in 11 years of married life, have I ever taken my wife to dinner on New Year's Day.

One thing and only one thing has mattered for every single New Year's Day of my entire life: bowl games. Didn't matter who was playing; I watched bowl games. Virtually everybody I knew has watched bowl games. Started at noon, maybe 11 a.m., ended at midnight or thereabout. Either I watched on TV or covered them for this newspaper for a total of, oh, 42, 43 years, something like that.

Until yesterday.

Sometime around 2 p.m. on New Year's Day 2009, after watching the first two periods of the NHL's Winter Classic outdoors in Chicago's Wrigley Field, I announced that I was leaving the house to take a drive. My wife, astounded, said, "You've never left the house on New Year's Day in the whole time I've known you. Is there something wrong with you?"

Well, yeah, something was seriously wrong. The bowl games, for the first time in my life, didn't matter. The people who run college football had succeeded, finally, in killing New Year's Day. Instead of college playoff games commanding our attention, we were left with a bunch of BCS exhibitions that meant absolutely nothing. I didn't know what games were being played at what times, nor in several cases, what day. Not until I sat down and started typing these words did I know that the Fiesta Bowl, played right here in Arizona where I'm spending the first week of this New Year, won't be played until Monday, Jan. 5. I'm now guessing -- seriously, this is a total guess -- the Sugar Bowl will be played Friday night. The Cotton Bowl, I'm told, has been moved out of the early New Year's Day slot to the day after.

Why? The Cotton Bowl hasn't been a game of consequence for years.

The Orange Bowl, the only game played in prime time on New Year's night, featured two teams not ranked in the Top 10. The Rose Bowl, as we all suspected going in, was a total non-contest. It's fine for Penn State to play Southern Cal; it just should have been a 1 vs. 8 quarterfinal game in the national college football playoff. As is, the Granddaddy of 'em all amounted to an exhibition, too. I watched 20 minutes, max.

Initially, I figured it was just me. But it wasn't. Every guy I called who traditionally has his butt bolted to the sofa in front of the TV for a dozen hours on New Year's Day had essentially the same story. They watched a little, then checked out, found other stuff to do. Or they watched the NHL game at Wrigley. Or the bowl game was on the background while they answered e-mail. Seems the folks entrusted to oversee college football have so worried themselves into a tizzy over the sacredness of the regular season they've now let the post-season go straight to Hades.

And with no NFL games, with no NBA games, New Years' Day as a sporting tradition has gone south as well. The Orange Bowl couldn't hold me for 10 minutes. And while it's a function of the economy more than what's happening with college football, it was impossible not to repeatedly notice, with every camera shot of the stands, how empty the stadium formerly known as Joe Robbie was. Then again, Virginia Tech vs. Cincinnati is hardly one of those matchups that forces people to run to the nearest ticket broker.

Because there's no playoff and only a BCS Championship game on Jan. 8, the implicit message is that nothing leading up to that matters, not even New Years' Day games. We're told by the BCS that Oklahoma and Florida are the two best teams in the country. So, why watch Southern Cal if they have no chance? Why watch Alabama play Utah (another perfect No. 1 vs. No. 8 playoff matchup) if the Tide has no chance to finish No. 1?

New Year's Day 2009 was such an enormous disappointment that I'm now hoping President-elect Barack Obama wasn't teasing when he said he might just throw his weight around to pressure the powers-that-be into staging a playoff.

What New Year's Day should have had was either the four quarterfinal games (Oklahoma-Penn State, Florida-Texas Tech, Texas-Utah, Alabama-USC). You don't think 'Bama vs. USC in single elimination would have been riveting, must-see TV on New Year's Day? You'd plan your day around that game.

Assuming the top four seeds advanced, we'd get Oklahoma vs. Alabama and Texas vs. Florida in the semis.

If you want it wrapped up by Jan. 8 to clear the way for the NFL, then New Year's Day could have been national semifinal day. Two huge games, one played in the Rose Bowl or Fiesta Bowl, the other played in the Orange Bowl.

You think the ratings for those doggies wouldn't have been through the sky?

As is, we had one fairly lousy game in the Orange Bowl New Year's night, unopposed. No Sugar Bowl to click over to check on. I called one of my best friends, J.A. Adande who writes for ESPN.com, to ask him when the Fiesta Bowl would be played. "It's not tomorrow?" he asked. No. When told Jan. 5, he howled. When I filed this column I had no idea of the teams in the Fiesta Bowl, an event I've covered five or six times, and excitedly.

Here's the big, big problem for the bowl people, whether or not they ever want to acknowledge it: Sports, for me, are vocation and avocation. Same for Adande. And if we don't know who's playing and when, it's not a good thing for the bowls. We are, or should be, exactly the kind of fanatics the bowl games court: alums of a BCS school (Northwestern) who buy tickets and jerseys, and satellite TV packages to watch obscure games during the regular season. I don't think we were the exception Thursday; I think we were the rule. The ratings for the entire day will still be fairly high because there's nothing else to watch on Jan. 1, because everybody except the NHL has backed away because the college game has owned New Year's Day on TV for 50 years. (I swear, if TNT had put a Law & Order "mini-marathon" on instead of "Bones" re-runs all day I'd have watched it and never even bothered checking in on the Orange Bowl.)

Those of you who like the BCS system are probably asking why playoff proponents think these bowl games matter less now than they did 25 years ago. Fair question. But the answer is easy. We're a culture now that expects, at the end of any competitive process, to have a winner declared in the arena. "American Idol" and "Dancing With the Stars" even get that. You don't have a major event if you haven't reduced the competition along the way and tried to produce a winner. The last competitors standing have to at least confront one another in competition. Arguing it out isn't good enough anymore in sports. We don't want to be told Florida and/or Oklahoma are better than Southern Cal; we expect the Gators and/or Sooners to prove it.

So, by the way, do the Gators and Sooners.

Used to be, I actually climbed in bed relatively early on New Year's Eve night because I got up early to be ready for the very first bowl game. I knew it was a long day and I'd need my energy. Now, at least I know I can stay out as late as I want on New Year's Eve because the lousy state of affairs in college football have made New Year's Day the perfect time to catch up on my sleep.

grtwhtsk · Post by **grtwhtsk** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 11:59 am

Thanks Jack, good stuff. I had thought something similar, and also came up with something else to do on New Years Day. The only plus at this point (assuming there is one) is that there are a few more games to watch...starting with Texas-Ohio State tonight.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 2:16 pm

Wilbon makes many fine points but does miss on one point. In all the New Year Day's before the BCS, you still watched a bunch of games where teams were not playing for #1. It was usually not until night (Sugar or Orange), or mid afternoon (Rose) before you watched a game that would impact the mythical national champion. Heck in some years, that mythical Nation Champion was rewarded before New Year's Day (see BYU winning it via the Holiday Bowl).

Now for the great tragedy, I have to root for Texas tonight. The best thing for fans of a playoff would be to have Texas win and then OU win. The BCS would have no excuse for this year. With OU, Texas and Utah all deserving of that championship.

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:59 am

Another "W" for the Big 12. Way to go Texas!

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:00 am

Why can't they have both a playoff and other bowl games? take teh top 8 teams into a playoff. The rest of the teams can still haev their bowl games like normal. That way the scholls stil get the $$$ from the teams travelling to bowls, and we get a clear #1.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:06 am

I would not care for a playoff/bowl game mixture myself. It would make the bowl games even more worthless than they already are.

I like the 16 team option myself. Take the champion from each conference (grouped conferences like the Big 12, ACC, etc still have a championship game) and a few at-large teams, seed them and let them fight to the end.

11 conference champions, even the smaller conferences get an entry into the playoffs. This way when each season starts, everyone has a chance at making it. Of course the at-large teams will primarily come from major conferences but that is to be expected. I would even add that you need to cut back on OOC games, limiting them to 2 or 3 and putting the emphasis on conference play (with a playoff setup you really only need a 10 or 11 game season) --- though it should be the overall record that factors into winning the conference. Once again, making every game count.

One thing I like about the BCS, the regular season really does matter all year. It just ends poorly with the BCS Bowl setup.

greggsand · Post by **greggsand** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:15 am

Ohio State chokes on a national stage once again. No way!

Jackdog · Post by **Jackdog** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:17 am

greggsand wrote:Ohio State chokes on a national stage once again. No way!

Way!! I go to bed a very happy man.

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:04 am

I never thought the day would come, but conferences like the Big East and ACC are better than the Big Ten. Wow, are they bad.

Big 12 and SEC are home to the best football in the country by a large margin.

I can't wait to hear the talk shows after the Sooners win.

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:12 am

JackDog wrote:
greggsand wrote:Ohio State chokes on a national stage once again. No way!
Way!! I go to bed a very happy man.

snaz16 · Post by **snaz16** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:27 am

jondiehl wrote:I never thought the day would come, but conferences like the Big East and ACC are better than the Big Ten. Wow, are they bad.

Big 12 and SEC are home to the best football in the country by a large margin.

I can't wait to hear the talk shows after the Sooners win.

Big 12 by a wide margin? This vaunted Texas team came within a questionable spot and a blown coverage to squeek out a win against a supposed inferior team, that for 3 quarters, pretty much was the better team on the field. And Mizzou having to go to OT to beat that vaunted powerhouse Northwestern? That margin is not as wide as you think.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:49 am

At least there's no debate about the best conference in college hoop: Big East has a record nine teams in AP Top 25 this week.

Let the football argument continue.

Take care,
PK