OT: 2008 Elections

[snaz16]

One Republican not mentioned that I would like to hear more about is Fred Thompson

[Teal]

This is one political thread where I think we can avoid any major fights. It is hard to get excited about any of these candidates.

I think we'd need to suck down 12 bottles of Viagra before we got excited about any of these doofesses running for office.

Heh...then Bob Dole would get the nod...

[wco81]

Well the main benefit of Hilary getting into the WH would be how despondent so many would be at that outcome.

[pk500]

One Republican not mentioned that I would like to hear more about is Fred Thompson

Former actor, doesn't have the heart or desire to put in the effort to make a successful bid for president. That's why he entered late, figuring he could be the "white knight" to save the Republicans from themselves.

He's a weak candidate. Basically a lard-ass with a hot wife.

Take care,
PK

[pk500]

Well the main benefit of Hilary getting into the WH would be how despondent so many would be at that outcome.

At the expense of the future of this nation? I'll pass.

Seriously, what has this woman EVER done while in the public eye? What major programs or accomplishments has she achieved?

She was a colossal failure at her only high-profile assignment during her husband's administration, starting a national health care system. She has done damn near nothing during her tenure as New York senator other than build an infrastructure and war chest for her run for president.

I would really like for a Hillary supporter to write a list of her major accomplishments, of the list of bills that she sponsored while senator that became effective laws.

Trust me, it wouldn't be equal to putting the Lord's Prayer on the back of a postage stamp. Hillary Clinton's only credentials for president are that she is Bill Clinton's wife. Nothing else.

Take care,
PK

[greggsand]

Well the main benefit of Hilary getting into the WH would be how despondent so many would be at that outcome.

At the expense of the future of this nation? I'll pass.

Seriously, what has this woman EVER done while in the public eye? What major programs or accomplishments has she achieved?

She was a colossal failure at her only high-profile assignment during her husband's administration, starting a national health care system. She has done damn near nothing during her tenure as New York senator other than build an infrastructure and war chest for her run for president.

I would really like for a Hillary supporter to write a list of her major accomplishments, of the list of bills that she sponsored while senator that became effective laws.

Trust me, it wouldn't be equal to putting the Lord's Prayer on the back of a postage stamp. Hillary Clinton's only credentials for president are that she is Bill Clinton's wife. Nothing else.

Take care,
PK

I'd be all for her if she'd promise to let Bill call ALL of shots while in office... Not joking.

[XXXIV]

I'd be all for her if she'd promise to let Bill call ALL of shots while in office... Not joking.

Irony...

she called the shots while he was in office.

[ScoopBrady]

What does Obama stand for, other than the abstract sound bite of "change?" The hell if I know, although he'll milk his anti-Iraq War vote until that teet is dry.

I'm just sick and tired of hearing Obama talk about a "fresh start" and "change," with nothing concrete to support that. I don't want to vote for a slogan; I want to vote for a leader.

Ask and ye shall receive (taken from his website today):

Barack Obama: It's time for Americans to stand for change
The Union Leader | January 02, 2008
By Barack Obama

THIS IS a defining moment for our generation. Our nation is at war. Our planet is in peril. Our American dream is slipping away. We've never paid more for health care or college. It's harder to save and retire.

At this moment, we cannot wait any longer for universal health care or good jobs or living wages and pensions we can count on. We cannot wait to fix our schools or halt global warming or end this war in Iraq.

I chose to run for President because I believed that the size of these challenges had outgrown the capacity of our broken and divided politics to solve them; that Americans of every political stripe were hungry for a new kind of politics that focused not just on how to win but why we should and represented those values and ideals that we held in common as Americans; a politics that favored common sense over ideology, straight talk over spin.

I really like Obama but I admit I get to see a lot of him since he is from Illinois. I like him because he has always come across as sincere IMO and he's not exactly thrilled with the current political climate. Neither am I.

One thing that surprises me is the fact that everybody seems to be chomping at the bit to get Bush out of office yet they aren't excited about any of his possible succesors. For 8 years people have been clamoring for change and now that it's coming nobody is excited. Seems kind of weird to me.

[pk500]

Ask and ye shall receive (taken from his website today):

Barack Obama: It's time for Americans to stand for change
The Union Leader | January 02, 2008
By Barack Obama

THIS IS a defining moment for our generation. Our nation is at war. Our planet is in peril. Our American dream is slipping away. We've never paid more for health care or college. It's harder to save and retire.

At this moment, we cannot wait any longer for universal health care or good jobs or living wages and pensions we can count on. We cannot wait to fix our schools or halt global warming or end this war in Iraq.

I chose to run for President because I believed that the size of these challenges had outgrown the capacity of our broken and divided politics to solve them; that Americans of every political stripe were hungry for a new kind of politics that focused not just on how to win but why we should and represented those values and ideals that we held in common as Americans; a politics that favored common sense over ideology, straight talk over spin.

Sorry, Scoop, but this tells me nothing. It's more of the idealistic BS that Obama is running on because the guy has little experience and substance.

He identifies the problems that any politician with a half a brain could describe. But does he offer any solutions, any point-by-point plans, in this op-ed piece? Anything tangible other than the same flowery, optimistic rhetoric that he's delivered on the stump at every campaign stop in Iowa and during every televised debate?

Nope.

Take care,
PK

[macsomjrr]

Ask and ye shall receive (taken from his website today):

Barack Obama: It's time for Americans to stand for change
The Union Leader | January 02, 2008
By Barack Obama

THIS IS a defining moment for our generation. Our nation is at war. Our planet is in peril. Our American dream is slipping away. We've never paid more for health care or college. It's harder to save and retire.

At this moment, we cannot wait any longer for universal health care or good jobs or living wages and pensions we can count on. We cannot wait to fix our schools or halt global warming or end this war in Iraq.

I chose to run for President because I believed that the size of these challenges had outgrown the capacity of our broken and divided politics to solve them; that Americans of every political stripe were hungry for a new kind of politics that focused not just on how to win but why we should and represented those values and ideals that we held in common as Americans; a politics that favored common sense over ideology, straight talk over spin.

Sorry, Scoop, but this tells me nothing. It's more of the idealistic BS that Obama is running on because the guy has little experience and substance.

He identifies the problems that any politician with a half a brain could describe. But does he offer any solutions, any point-by-point plans, in this op-ed piece? Anything tangible other than the same flowery, optimistic rhetoric that he's delivered on the stump at every campaign stop in Iowa and during every televised debate?

Nope.

Take care,
PK

Actually that isn't the case. If you'd take the time to visit his website he goes point by point through pretty much any issue you like. Click on "issues" on the main page.

Homeland security for example.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/homeland/

[wco81]

Believe it or not every major politician has fervent supporters.

In Obama's case, he's been drawing huge crowds for years. Maybe it's curiosity stemming from his speech in 2004.

What is an interesting indicator is that he's raised money from a lot of individuals, far more than any other candidate.

Yet he was languishing a very distant second in the national polls and it's only in the last month or two that he's moved up in the polls of the first 3 states holding elections.

I think all this talk of change is mostly a slogan or campaign theme. Like composition teachers in primary education, campaign managers prod candidates to distill the case a candidate makes for himself to a few easy-to-remember (and easily made into slogans) themes.

Main thing about Obama's appeal seems to be his demeanor and speaking abilities.

About experience, there really is no other position which prepares one for the presidency. As Obama quipped, Hilary's foreign policy experience consists of taking tea at the ambassador's office.

Some people discount career legislators and suggest people who were governors (being executives) are better prepared. Yet is being governor of Arkansas or Massachusetts really like being at the top of the federal executive branch?

If experience was paramount, Dodd, Biden and Richardson would be faring better. Same with McCain.

[Naples39]

The candidates may not be great, but for my money the final two can't be worse than choosing between Kerry and Dubya. That was pretty brutal.

Barack is probably my top democrat pick ATM, mostly because I despise Edwards and am thoroughly unimpressed with Hillary. Everyone knows Obama plays and speaks the part, but I have similar feelings as PK - seems short on experience and long on vague promises of 'change.' If he adds some substance to his hype I *might* be able to get on board.

I know most people feel Romney is a total fake, but the guy speaks very well like Obama, and unlike Obama he has a distinguished history of accomplishment in both the private and public sectors. Unfortunately he is running as a staunch social conservative that have a lot of people (understandably) calling bullshit. Still, I think in office he would get a lot done and pursue centrist, reachable goals. In the interest of full disclosure however, I have to admit my dad is old friends with Romney so I probably have more faith in the man himself than the average joe.

I also like McCain as a dark horse on the republican side as a no-nonsense realist.

Will be very interesting to see how the picture looks a week from now after Iowa and NH.

[Rodster]

This is what we get from a two party system, "Diet Coke vs. Diet Pepsi". That's why the American political system needs a legitimate three party system or else we will forever be subjected to this crap.

[Brando70]

This is what we get from a two party system, "Diet Coke vs. Diet Pepsi". That's why the American political system needs a legitimate three party system or else we will forever be subjected to this crap.

Rodster, that's very European of you

I like Obama. I would like him much better if he had another term or two of Senate work under his belt, but I think he has the leadership skills to handle the job. Despite being very liberal politically, he appears to have the capacity to work with the other side.

I'm not a big Hillary fan but I think she'd do okay. She's far more accomplished and experienced than Bush ever was (which isn't saying much, I know). She's served on some prominent committees and she's actually the most conservative of the top three Democratic candidates. However, there's just a huge section of the populace that will never accept her, and I think we need to get away from the Clinton-Bush polarization we've had. I hope she doesn't get the nod for that reason alone.

Edwards doesn't do much for me. I don't find his populism genuine.

On the Republican side, Huckabee actually seems like he gets compassionate conservatism, but he's way too conservative for me to vote for. Guiliani is much better suited to be a mayor than a President, and Romney is clearly wearing Kerry flip flops. McCain is a decent dark horse, but I don't think he has the funds to pull it off. And he's also old enough to be the next GM of the Buffalo Bills

I actually am more interested in this election than the 2004 election. I agree with Naples, that was a horrid choice.

[wco81]

The system we have now has evolved over 2 centuries.

It would be impossible for a third-party candidate, even if he won, to work with the other parties once he's in office.

The other day, Bloomberg was in some conference with former senators calling for some bipartisanship. But they didn't enumerate which ills they wanted addressed.

There was some talk that if the parties didn't meet their demands, they might run a Bloomberg-Hagel ticket. But apparently this morning, Bloomberg said unequivocally he's not running.

Even if he made it into office, would Democrats or Republicans be inclined to accommodate him? Would have been the same issue if Nader won in 2000 or Perot in 1992.

Under parliamentary systems, it appears the only way to have multiple parties is that the party of the prime minister wins enough seats and/or makes a coalition with some minor parties.

With the growth of independents in this country, we have de facto coalitions with the indies swinging to one party or another.

On Edwards, how genuine can any of these rich guys be identifying with the poor? People can imagine which candidate they'd like to have a beer with but that's a fiction (like Thompson driving up in a limo and then getting in a pickup the rest of the way to some rally or Clinton going to McDonalds).

But Edwards' message about two Americas plays at least in some parts of the country and polls reflect general unease about the economy -- as they did in 2004 as well. Now does he genuinely want to champion the less-privileged or does he see his two Americas as the most marketable strategy? Or both?

I know that Edwards is the last candidate which the business community wants to see win. In fact the rumor was Bloomberg would run if Edwards won the nomination to siphon votes from him.

The $400 haircut is a talking point. None of these guys are going to Supercuts and if you have someone come to meet you in a hotel or wherever is convenient for you, you're going to pay a premium and a big tip.

[XXXIV]

This is what we get from a two party system, "Diet Coke vs. Diet Pepsi". That's why the American political system needs a legitimate three party system or else we will forever be subjected to this crap.

Rodster, that's very European of you

Freaking Republicrats...

[JRod]

Ask and ye shall receive (taken from his website today):

Barack Obama: It's time for Americans to stand for change
The Union Leader | January 02, 2008
By Barack Obama

THIS IS a defining moment for our generation. Our nation is at war. Our planet is in peril. Our American dream is slipping away. We've never paid more for health care or college. It's harder to save and retire.

At this moment, we cannot wait any longer for universal health care or good jobs or living wages and pensions we can count on. We cannot wait to fix our schools or halt global warming or end this war in Iraq.

I chose to run for President because I believed that the size of these challenges had outgrown the capacity of our broken and divided politics to solve them; that Americans of every political stripe were hungry for a new kind of politics that focused not just on how to win but why we should and represented those values and ideals that we held in common as Americans; a politics that favored common sense over ideology, straight talk over spin.

Sorry, Scoop, but this tells me nothing. It's more of the idealistic BS that Obama is running on because the guy has little experience and substance.

He identifies the problems that any politician with a half a brain could describe. But does he offer any solutions, any point-by-point plans, in this op-ed piece? Anything tangible other than the same flowery, optimistic rhetoric that he's delivered on the stump at every campaign stop in Iowa and during every televised debate?

Nope.

Take care,
PK

Actually that isn't the case. If you'd take the time to visit his website he goes point by point through pretty much any issue you like. Click on "issues" on the main page.

Homeland security for example.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/homeland/

Those points are practically meaningless because the press is too focused on the horserace and are not yet picking apart their ideas. They do that when we have two candidates. Some reporter says, "I guess it's time to read what this guy wants to do."

Last night on ABC news they could have talked about each others platform instead they talked about personal details of the candidates lives. I understand that this isn't all about issues but it seems the media cries they there's too much negativity but they love to report on it. They cry that there's little talk about the issues yet all they focus on is the horse race. They cry that the level is discourse isn't there but they focus on Edward's haircuts, or Obama's smoking, or hot WAGs (wives and girlfriends).

Back to my original point, those "plans" listed on the candidates website are worthless because they have not been vetted through independent experts and the media. They all sound really nice but they are more PR fluff than an EA paid for review.

[ProvoAnC]

the whole thing sickitates me

Reminds me of the South Park episode where they had to vote for a school mascot. It was between a turd sandwich and a d*****bag...how true.

Anyone want to move to Montana and start our own country?

[jondiehl]

What happens if Hilary is the Democratic nominee?

Start cheating on my taxes even more aggressively.

-Think the IRS would mind if I claimed pets as dependants?
-How many home-based business can I get away with writing off gigantic losses for and basically make every living expense a tax deduction?

[Sudz]

be interesting to see who comes out of the primaries and who ends up teaming up for the final run..

[JRod]

If Hilary is the nominee, I think a rep wins. Bill and Hilary is a lot like Peyton and Eli Manning. You would think Eli would be just as good but he's not. He only gets by because of his name.


Could you imagine 20 years of two families in the white house. If it's Hillary versus Romney, I think the whole country shuts off to that.

[Sudz]

If Hilary is the nominee, I think a rep wins. Bill and Hilary is a lot like Peyton and Eli Manning. You would think Eli would be just as good but he's not. He only gets by because of his name.

That is a pretty amazing thought....

kinda surprised jeb didn't run...

[jondiehl]

Could you imagine 20 years of two families in the white house.

We've already got 20yrs (28 if you count Bush as a VP with Reagan).

4 yrs with Bush
8 yrs with Clinton
8 yrs with Bush part deux

[warnerwlf98]

The pilot episode of Monk had a great line:

"I don't vote . . . it only encourages them."

[wco81]

Huckabee wins by a big margin, which probably means Romney is done.

Obama is projected to win a close race and Hilary is trying to claw into second place.