OT: Racing 2007 (Spoiler Alert)

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:13 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:
pk500 wrote:The only thing that looked really bush-league was that NASCAR threw the caution AFTER the checkered. How the hell can you have a caution period in a race that is officially over?
It's only "officially" over for the guys who crossed the finish line to said checkered flag. The rest of the guys are still racing till they get to that point...so it's not over technically.

True. But in all my years of watching racing locally and nationally, I can't remember the last time I've seen a yellow thrown after a checkered, at least in an oval race.

The two leaders are part of the field, and the wreck occurred while they were still racing and hadn't taken the checkered. So I don't really buy NASCAR's explanation that the caution wasn't necessary until Bowyer flipped on his lid and caught fire.

There were cars careening out of control and crashing before Bowyer landed on his roof and ignited. That would have been an immediate caution in any other race on any other lap, and it would have been an instant caution on any other lap of this race.

Either throw the caution when the wreck occurs or just let them race to the checkered without a yellow. Remember, this is the organization that allowed racing back to caution -- an incredibly stupid and dangerous practice -- until just three years ago. It's also the organization that throws cautions for "debris" just to bunch the field.

But no caution was thrown here until after the leaders crossed the finish line. Interesting, and a good topic for debate.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 3:39 pm

I thought they should have thrown the yellow. No need to have the back 3/4 of the field racing through a multi-car wreck. But who knows, throwing the yellow might not have prevented any of the carnage, but if a driver's in the back and the track is still green, then they are going to keep the pedal down while trying to avoid the crashing cars.

It was a typical NASCAR 'call the rules as we see fit' situation.

Kissrox · Post by **Kissrox** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:22 pm

NASCAR did the right thing. If they had thrown the yellow they would have determined the out come of the race before it was finished. Letting the "play" finish and then throwing the yellow was the right thing to do. Hey Jeff Gordon moved from 12-10 overnight! I like that!!

I do recall a few races where a wreck happened behind the leaders and NASCAR didn't throw the yellow becasue the wreck would have had no effect on the outcome. Obviously if there had been 2 laps to go they would have thrown the yellow and the race would have been over.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:23 am

Dave wrote: It was a typical NASCAR 'call the rules as we see fit' situation.

I agree. The yellow may not have meant something to the 2 lead cars, but it would have meant a lot to the 30+ guys behind them.

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:14 am

JPM's cornhole of his teammate Scott Pruett takes some of the luster off an otherwise excellent performance in Mexico City. Montoya's charge from the back was very impressive, even accounting for his fresher tires and the road racing experience of his NBS competitors.

He probably could have afforded to wait for a better opportunity to overtake Pruett. There were eight laps left and as it turned out, a couple of more restarts. Patience has never been one of JPM's strong suits, which may turn out to burn him as his NASCAR career continues.

Pruett's comeback to finish in the top five was just as impressive as JPM's run. He must have been fuming under the helmet. But you couldn't tell Pruett was even still in the race from ESPN's coverage. They were all over the Montoya story with cutaways in-race interview during cautions, cutaways to Connie, and Jerry Punch fawning over JPM as the best driver on the planet. Oh well, ESPN and NASCAR got what they wanted and at the end of the day, so did Chip. Both team cars finished in the top five and the JPM legend got a new chapter along with a few dings on the front bumper.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:39 am

El Intimidator is born

ESPN certainly fawned over John Paul Montoya, but he earned some of it with the passes he was pulling off out there. His drive to the front was electric and it is unfortunately that he cornholed Pruett once he got there. Inexcusable to take a teammate out like that, especially considering how much faster JPM was at that point.

Montoya at Bristol should be interesting.

I also watched the Grand Am race from Mexico this weekend. It was a really good race at the front, complete with two late-race passes for the lead. Eventually, Mad Max Papis threw it away by spinning out of the lead, which allowed the Derek Bell/Jon Fogarty (someone give him an Indycar ride) to pick up the win.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:06 am

Stupid move by Montoya, but that race encapsulated why the guy is one of the few fascinating, polarizing magicians left in the world behind the wheel of a race car. Very few guys can pass nearly 20 cars in 17 laps on a road course, take out their teammate and show such insouciance about it after the race.

If that was Gordon or Johnson or any other NASCAR star, we immediately would have heard the cliched, "I just HATE it for takin' out my teammate, and I'm really sorry as I just HATE what happened there" as soon as the microphone reached his chin after the race.

For Montoya, it just seemed the price of doing business, which is one of the reasons he appeals to so many, including me. Montoya knows that once the visor goes down, the entire concept of teammates is pretty daft, and he doesn't hide it. It's every man for himself, or oops, now that JPM is in NASCAR, "hisself."

This is a guy, after all, who had Ralf Schumacher as a "teammate" in F1 when in reality the two practiced open warfare on each other during their time at Williams.

Can't wait until JPM is in a similar situation in NEXTEL Cup. I hope he does the exact same thing, because it's damn good entertainment. Yeah, JPM should have waited a few corners, but man, that was fun to watch.

As I watched that race, I realized, "Hey, that course is in Pro Race Driver or TOCA 2." I remember the long right-hander behind the soccer stadium leading to the start-finish line from those games. That was a REALLY fun course to drive. Think I'll have to download it for the Busch series mod for NASCAR Racing 2003.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:33 am

By the way, is it wrong to think that NASCAR puts on the most entertaining road racing shows?

I'll definitely watch more Nextel Cup this year because of Montoya for the reasons you mentioned, PK. He's always been a favorite of mine.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:23 am

Dave wrote:By the way, is it wrong to think that NASCAR puts on the most entertaining road racing shows?

Nope. On four wheels, at least. They can't compare to the average MotoGP or World Superbike race, but on four wheels the only thing that can compare to the road-course entertainment of NASCAR is British touring cars.

Dave wrote:I'll definitely watch more Nextel Cup this year because of Montoya for the reasons you mentioned, PK. He's always been a favorite of mine.

Same here. I've already watched more NASCAR this season than all of last season.

Take care,
PK

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:30 pm

I've been taping the British Touring Cars. Do they get points for taking out as many cars as they can in those races? I guess a lot of F1 drivers start in karts as kids, in BTCC they start in bumper cars.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:54 pm

Gurantsu wrote:I've been taping the British Touring Cars. Do they get points for taking out as many cars as they can in those races? I guess a lot of F1 drivers start in karts as kids, in BTCC they start in bumper cars.

The BTCC is the Ultimate Fighting Championship of motorsports. I'd love to be the Chief Steward of that series -- you'd do nothing. Almost anything goes in that series. Great entertainment on some b*tchin' British circuits.

Take care,
PK

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:57 pm

I enjoyed the race. I never intended to watch the whole thing, but I did, mostly due to JPM but also just because it was in Mexico. Plus, I generally like the NASCAR road races quite a bit. I had a few observations. One, even though it was a Busch race and so the best drivers weren't all there, it was clear JPM was like a man racing against boys. Maybe his car was that much better overall, and sure he did have a tire advantage in the final bit, but even someone like Said, who is supposed to be a NASCAR road racing master while not so good at the ovals, provided little to no resistance. JPM is brilliant at the restarts, too, whether he's in front or not.

Also, the race officials seemed to go crazy with the cautions at the end of the race. 80% of the race with maybe 2 cautions, and then in the end there was one every 2 or 3 laps. Seemed like on the one hand, the drivers just couldn't handle themselves well after restarts in the traffic (reminded me of our early days with IndyCar on XBL, when restarts would immediately lead to another yellow), and on the other hand the officials were way too fast with the yellows for a road course. At least a couple of times, it seemed all the cars got back on track and heading in the right direction about 2 seconds after the yellow came out, and I was wodering why a full course yellow was necessary at all. Nothing kills the drama for me more than the stop and go of full-course cautions. Restarts are fun and all, but the end of the race was like the end of an NBA game with one team behind by 10 and forced to foul.

JPM taking out his teammate was a nasty move. He had plenty of time and laps to get by, and while I think he did force the issue, I'm sure from his perspective his teammate tried to chop down and close the door on him, and paid the price. JPM did lock up to try to avoid contact, but it wasn't enough. I thought it was really funny how the two drivers reacted in the post race interviews.

Another observation I had was that Jerry Punch needs to never do PBP again. He's just not good at it, and should have been in the pits where he is used to being. There was one guy down there whose voice I recognized who does excellent PBP. Only ESPN could buck the trend by putting the amatuer in the booth and the seasoned pro down in the pits. Oh, and Rusty is not good in the booth, either. He needs to learn focus - he was all over the place! Trying to say ten things at once, and then trying to do a little PBP; the ex crew chief in the booth was much better, since he stuck to talking about one thing at a time and leaving the PBP to the good Dr!

I'll be very curious to see how JPM does throughout this season, and really look forward to the Nextel Cup road races this year. It is fascinating to me how NASCAR is really looking to expand their brand with international telecasts, NASCAR Mexico, and Toyota in the mix, while the bulk of their fan base is probably as resistent to all of this as could be imagined.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:15 pm

Very interesting story about the all-time classic racing film, "Grand Prix"

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/35866/

Take care,
PK

jondiehl · Post by **jondiehl** » Sat Mar 10, 2007 1:37 pm

Rossi on the pole for the opener in MotoGP. Nicki on the 3rd row.

F1 starts next weekend, and with all of the driver/team changes, it might be worth watching for the first time in a LONG time.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:13 pm

WOO HOO! We're like 8 hrs away from F1 opening session in Melbourne! YEEEEHA! I hope Scott Speed can get a point. . . this year.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:35 pm

Zeppo wrote:WOO HOO! We're like 8 hrs away from F1 opening session in Melbourne! YEEEEHA! I hope Scott Speed can get a point. . . this year.

Don't count on it unless there's a ton of attrition. STR is in disarray with its late driver nominations and the flap over whether the new STR is actually a rebadged Red Bull, which violates the Concorde Agreement.

Sadly, this will be Speed's last season in F1 unless he BLOWS AWAY Liuzzi and punches near the points consistently. Berger can't stand Speed, so his future at STR is sealed. Speed brings no money to the table, and no other team will take him just because he's an American, especially when Bernie knows that his golden American driver, Marco Andretti, is waiting in the wings for Honda in 2009. Possibly even 2008 if Marco can win Indy and the IndyCar Series title this year.

Bottom line: STR is going to be very slow at the start of this season. But the biggest disappointments will be Honda and Toyota, both saddled by bureaucracy and slow cars.

Button said Honda won't even qualify in the top 10 this weekend, and the team already is doing a massive revision of its car possibly in time for Malaysia.

Could Toyota be any more conservative? Its chassis looks like a 2005 spec with its square, non-undercut sidepods, and could there be a less-inspiring, retread driver lineup than Ralf Schumacher and Jarno Trulli?

Major manufacturers need to work like Mercedes and BMW in F1 -- let racing people make decisions and keep the suits out of it. The sport moves too quickly for the usual corporate bureaucratic chain of command.

Look for BMW to be the revelation of the season if its car is reliable. Heidfeld and Kubica were quick as hell in preseason testing.

I'm pumped for Melbourne and eager to see the new cars and drivers on track tonight!

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:18 pm

Zep:

Leave now and come on up to Syracuse to watch practice! I'll have a few cold Labatt Blue's waiting ...

Take care,
PK

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:47 pm

I'm not a huge fan of ALMS but the GT2 class finish at Sebring was sensational. To see a Ferrari and Porsche banging doors through the last two laps makes up for the lack of competition in the other three classes.

It was also a nice maiden outing for the AGR Acura, but they were helped a lot by uncharacteristic problems for both of their LMP2s. This will be the class to watch this year. Other than that, there was the usual Audi parade up front and a Corvette walkover without the Prodrive Aston Martins to keep them honest.

Gangrel · Post by **Gangrel** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:42 pm

I watched the F1 race on PVR this morning. I am by no means a hardcore F1 expert, and only really started watching last year, thanks to the ease of recording with PVR (yes, I am THAT lazy that setting a VCR was too much work, lol)

It was pretty bland, really, although I am impressed with Lewis Hamilton. If he didn't get stuck behind a slower car trying to get down the pitlane on his last stop, I think he might have taken a run at Alonso.

I think Fernando needs to watch his back this year... wouldn't it be something if a rookie gets a victory before a 2 time world champ?

Raikonnen looks dangerous. Only 7 cars left on the lead lap.

I just hope the races get a bit more exciting, though I'm learning in F1 the only excitement occurs in the pits.....

Oh, and what was up with DC? He almost took Wurz's head off!!

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:30 pm

Last night's F1 race wasn't very entertaining. A lot of the new rules (engine freezes, option tires, safety car) seem like contrived, ham-fisted efforts to improve the racing.

Kimi had the field covered, running over a second/lap quicker when he needed to, so it could be a long season if McLaren doesn't find the speed to challenge. BMW appears to be the best of the rest, but the battle for 3rd in the constructors championship could be underwhelming as well.

Yes, I'm trying to set myself up for a welcome surprise the rest of the year by overreacting to the first race

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:31 pm

Great job today at Atlanta by Montoya, finishing fifth. He danced on the high line for the entire second half of the race, just blowing by people while running the rim, inches from the wall.

Not bad for his first time at Hot'lanta. The boy can drive.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:09 am

The biggest surprise for me was that Montoya kept up with the front-runners for an entire tire run. I figure tire management is going to be one of the biggest adjustments for him, but yesterday it didn't seem to be much of an issue.

Bristol will be very interesting. On one hand it is a 'twitch' racetrack, which falls right into Montoya's strengths (IMO), but on the other hand he's never had to deal with a racetrack as crowded as that.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:34 am

I think the next two races will be dim for Montoya, at Bristol and Martinsville.

Bristol is a one-groove racetrack. He can't run the high line, where he is comfortable. And the traffic, as you said, Dave, will be completely foreign to him. Martinsville is much the same.

Apparently Montoya was pretty out to lunch during the COT tests at Bristol.

But the dude is a very fast learner, so we'll see. All I know is that JPM has almost single-handedly revived my interest in Cup this year, and I'm enjoying it.

Take care,
PK

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:48 am

pk500 wrote:But the dude is a very fast learner, so we'll see. All I know is that JPM has almost single-handedly revived my interest in Cup this year, and I'm enjoying it.

He's revived a lot of my interest as well, but man those races can get really boring.

PK, any thoughts about the F1 race?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:18 am

Dave wrote:PK, any thoughts about the F1 race?

Yeah, it sucked. A Raikkonen walkaway, with the only passing up front due to the stops.

Let's just say that every rule change for 2007 -- control tire, 19,000-rpm rev limit, engine freeze, etc. -- added no spice to the show.

Let's hope we get a bit more action up front and the prick Finn James Hunt wannabe, who I'll admit was superb, can be slapped around by the Ron clones or Bimmers.

VERY impressive first showing for Hamilton. Nice to see a Williams car back in the points, too.

I know the Crates, er, Hondas, were holding up Massa, but he sure drove like an octagenarian grandmother behind them for too many laps. Captain Sauerkraut would have shredded those Hondas in two laps or less and continued a march toward the front. Massa was unimpressive, IMO.

I shed no tears for Button, either. First off, he's overrated and lacks killer instinct. He's not a team leader, regardless of what the British media and Gil de Ferran want us to believe. Second, he yanked around Williams and Honda for the last few years, dancing from contract to contract. He made his bed with the bureaucratic Japanese, so he can sleep in it and fade away as the British public latches on to its new hope, Hamilton.

A less-than-thrilling show in Melbourne. Let's just say that I can't wait for the MotoGP race this weekend at Jerez. At least you're guaranteed action in that series.

Take care,
PK