The Official Console Talk Thread

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 3:24 pm

EZSnappin wrote:Source? I take your word on it, but I have no idea what that means in terms of numbers. IRL is probably second to Nascar in the States but as you well know that doesn't make open wheel racing any less a "niche" sport here (Indy 500 excluded, the tradition makes it a singular event).

And the key in the quote is "niche sport" - it may not be a small audience of overall motorsports fans, but F1 & Nascar are the only non-niche motorsports in the world.

The analogy between NASCAR and other forms of motorsport in this country is apt when talking about the gulf between F1 and the WRC in Europe.

The only truly global motorsports are F1 and MotoGP. And now that I think about it, MotoGP almost certainly is more popular on TV and in spectator numbers than WRC in Europe. I was thinking four-wheeled motorsport when I replied to WCO. So in retrospect, his claims about rallying being a niche are pretty accurate.

The WRC is in a bit of a lull now, with low manufacturer participation and few bankable stars. Just six years ago, there were seven manufacturers in the series and pan-European stars like Colin McRae, Carlos Sainz, Tommi Makinen and Richard Burns. Now there are only three works teams, and the dominant Sebastien Loeb is about as exciting of a personality as a 1040 form.

NASCAR is growing outside of North America, but it's still a niche everywhere else. Montoya will help NASCAR gain a lot of traction in South America, and it will increase curiosity in Europe. But it's still the county expo compared to the World's Fair of F1 in Europe and Asia.

Take care,
PK

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:55 am

Another interview with Motorstorm developers.

http://www.spong.com/feature/10109476?cb=168

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:19 pm

I kind of did a self-psycho-analysis on why I'm not more jazzed about the PS3.

The first thing that came to mind was this "If you don't stock it, knock it." E.g. does the fact that I don't have one mean I feel the need to bash it. This is a very common problem. Thing is, I owned the PS1, PS2, and a PSP. A lot of my equipment as home is Sony (Camera, TV, Amp, etc). I've been a pretty loyal Sony Customer and am a proud member of the Playstation Underground.

So I asked myself. If someone handed me a gift certificate for a PS3 (and there was one on the shelf waiting for me), would I be all excited and suddenly be all aboard the PS3 bandwagon? I'm trying my hardest and can't see it.

What it comes down to is this. I just don't see anything there that makes me covet it? My XBox 360 is wireless, I download games and extra and Xbox Live arcade content off of it. It looks awesome on our existing rear projection SONY HDTV (which admittedly is 4 years old). I have the HD DVD add-on and movies look great on it. The games, even if they look better than the XBox 360, don't look SUBSTANTIALLY better. There are no 'must have' games for my tastes, and so on.

And then there's blu-ray. Okay, it's got more capacity, but it seems to make up for it by NEEDING extra capacity to compensate for using MPEG2 instead of VC1, which seems to be drawing raves by reviewers as being a cleaner, more efficient encoding. So it comes down the the format wars...and honestly, after the Chairman of Disney said in March "We'll probably produce our content for both formats", and judging by the situation on the ground numbers-wise after holiday season, I don't think the odds are good that HD DVD will lose. I personally think (crystal ball here), that Fox and Disney will find the HD DVD market is too large to be ignored, and start making for both. That will make Sony stand alone as the captain going down with the ship. Honestly, I don't think Sony can stand alone...and I think Blu-Ray will lose the format war (this is just judging by the sales figures at this point of both hardware and movies).

So, I guess I just don't feel in an all-blazing hurry to get a machine whose games are just comparable to the 360, is missing any must-have exclusives for me, and which feautres an HD format I cannot get all excited about.

And honestly, this long time Playstation loyalist is just not feelin the love right now for Sony....and that's a first for me.

Randy

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:59 pm

RandyM wrote:I kind of did a self-psycho-analysis on why I'm not more jazzed about the PS3.

The first thing that came to mind was this "If you don't stock it, knock it." E.g. does the fact that I don't have one mean I feel the need to bash it. This is a very common problem. Thing is, I owned the PS1, PS2, and a PSP. A lot of my equipment as home is Sony (Camera, TV, Amp, etc). I've been a pretty loyal Sony Customer and am a proud member of the Playstation Underground.

So I asked myself. If someone handed me a gift certificate for a PS3 (and there was one on the shelf waiting for me), would I be all excited and suddenly be all aboard the PS3 bandwagon? I'm trying my hardest and can't see it.

What it comes down to is this. I just don't see anything there that makes me covet it? My XBox 360 is wireless, I download games and extra and Xbox Live arcade content off of it. It looks awesome on our existing rear projection SONY HDTV (which admittedly is 4 years old). I have the HD DVD add-on and movies look great on it. The games, even if they look better than the XBox 360, don't look SUBSTANTIALLY better. There are no 'must have' games for my tastes, and so on.

And then there's blu-ray. Okay, it's got more capacity, but it seems to make up for it by NEEDING extra capacity to compensate for using MPEG2 instead of VC1, which seems to be drawing raves by reviewers as being a cleaner, more efficient encoding. So it comes down the the format wars...and honestly, after the Chairman of Disney said in March "We'll probably produce our content for both formats", and judging by the situation on the ground numbers-wise after holiday season, I don't think the odds are good that HD DVD will lose. I personally think (crystal ball here), that Fox and Disney will find the HD DVD market is too large to be ignored, and start making for both. That will make Sony stand alone as the captain going down with the ship. Honestly, I don't think Sony can stand alone...and I think Blu-Ray will lose the format war (this is just judging by the sales figures at this point of both hardware and movies).

So, I guess I just don't feel in an all-blazing hurry to get a machine whose games are just comparable to the 360, is missing any must-have exclusives for me, and which feautres an HD format I cannot get all excited about.

And honestly, this long time Playstation loyalist is just not feelin the love right now for Sony....and that's a first for me.

Randy

Wow! Very well said Randy and are very close to my feelings as well.

I have a ton of Sony products (camera, receiver, laptop, HDTV, PS2, ect...) and I just can't find anything to get me excited about this system. I have had multiple chances to buy one too and came close because of that gadget lover in me, but I have held off for the reasons you mentioned above.

Heck, I even want Blu-Ray to win out in the format war (more storage, Apple seems to be a supporter) but my investigating has led me to believe it is having trouble showing that it is a superior format.

bdunn13 · Post by **bdunn13** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:01 pm

RandyM wrote:That will make Sony stand alone as the captain going down with the ship.
Randy

How so when more than half the industry is behind blu-ray?

RandyM wrote:but it seems to make up for it by NEEDING extra capacity to compensate for using MPEG2 instead of VC1
Randy

The Blu-Ray spec does support VC1, mpeg 4 et al.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:07 pm

Well Sony better hope you're not typical.

As for expecting Disney, Fox, Sony and other Blu-Ray exclusive studios to switch, you could check this out:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... ost9143462

And look over the release calendars for the next few months.

Maybe there will be announcements at CES.

What's more likely though, Universal switching to Blu-Ray or Fox, Disney, Sony and others switching to HD-DVD?

Or every electronics maker switching and making HD-DVD players (much harder to do than stamping movie discs)?

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:27 pm

Well, the flip side of my post is this. If I'm wrong, I'll ultimately deal with it, buy a PS3 or some other Blu-Ray player, and hop on board. It's ultimately no skin off of my nose who wins.

My point was, I don't have any burning desire for a PS3, and I don't see HD DVD going away anytime soon.

Randy

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:28 pm

http://www.thedvdwars.com/index.cfm

Rodster · Post by **Rodster** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:29 pm

It looks like Blu-Ray got a big vote of confidence today as Dell is now offering these drives in their systems.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article11891.html

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:43 pm

Rodster wrote:It looks like Blu-Ray got a big vote of confidence today as Dell is now offering these drives in their systems.

http://news.digitaltrends.com/article11891.html

Not that ground-breaking considering this disclaimer in the third graph of the story:

(In case anyone wonders if this means Dell is taking sides in the Blu-ray/HD DVD format war, Dell was a founding member of the Blu-ray Disk Association.)

Dell adopting Blu-ray was preordained due to its position as a founding member of the Blu-ray Disk Association.

Take care,
PK

RandyM · Post by **RandyM** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:01 pm

Don't have the link handy, but isn't hp going with HD DVD?

Randy

10spro · Post by **10spro** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:19 pm

One thing is sure, the collection out there whether it's Blu-ray or HD just plain sucks.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 6:34 pm

Dell and HP were both on the main committee of the BDA.

They had initially chosen Blu-Ray for greater bandwidth, capacity and likely better write capabilities (no repeat of the DVD-RAM, DVD-R and DVD+R fiasco).

MS flipped HP, offered them inducements to support HD-DVD. HP hasn't said they are completely abandoning Blu-Ray but it appears they're supporting only HD-DVD for the moment.

Dell has consistently said they want greater capacity and the write capabilities (HD-DVD is having problems producing writeable dual-layer so they're stuck on 15 GB).

Most other computer vendors are shipping Blu-Ray and there have been a slew of Blu-Ray drive announcements as peripherals for PCs in the last month.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:47 pm

MLB The Show announced for PS3 (along with PS2 and PSP).

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163066.html

Talk of online leagues but not specified which platform would have the feature.

989 Sports record on transitioning to a new platform is not good. GameDay never survived the transition from PS1 to PS2 and I think the first couple of versions of MLB on the PS2 weren't notable. NBA Shootout used to be serviceable on the PS1 but not so much on the PS2, in fact they changed the name.

MLB was using Renderware from Criterion at one point when they were delivering 60 FPS. But now what will they use and will they have enough time to do justice to a next-gen engine? Does 989 have the resources to have a dedicated team for the PS3 or do they have to share with the PS2/PSP teams (dedicated team didn't help EA)?

It's strange, Sony hires good first/second-party developers in Europe (mainly UK) but not so much in the US, with the notable exception of the team which did God of War. Oh maybe the Jak and Rachet and Clank teams are considered first/second-parties.

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:12 pm

Some screens taken by someone who has the Japanese version of Motorstorm released recently.

http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost....43&postcount=87

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:26 pm

10spro wrote:One thing is sure, the collection out there whether it's Blu-ray or HD just plain sucks.

What do you mean?

My Best Buy has at least 15 different movies for each format

I like new tech as much as the next guy but I dont think this crap will be mainstream for a long while. I still dont know anyone personally who has an HD set up TV.

Only you guys here. This must be a high tax bracket forum.

Being poor sux

Kazuya · Post by **Kazuya** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:40 am

M$ finally gets with the program and matches Sony and Nintendo with a one year warranty for the Xbox 360:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/new ... tended.htm

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:50 am

Kazuya wrote:M$ finally gets with the program and matches Sony and Nintendo with a one year warranty for the Xbox 360:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/new ... tended.htm

One less roadblock between me and a 360. Now all I need is a price cut.

Take care,
PK

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:59 am

pk500 wrote:
Kazuya wrote:M$ finally gets with the program and matches Sony and Nintendo with a one year warranty for the Xbox 360:

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/new ... tended.htm
One less roadblock between me and a 360. Now all I need is a price cut.

Take care,
PK

TRU had a deal going this week, not sure if it is still on. But you got a $100 gift Card with the purchase of a premium, so while it is not really a cut, you can get a game at least for free and still have $30+ of credit

wco81 · Post by **wco81** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:10 pm

There seems to be a lot of different deals for the X360. Since there are no margins on consoles, MS has to be subsidizing these promotions, a kind of virutal price cut without doing a universal and permanent price cut.

What would push MS to pull the trigger earlier than later on a price cut is if PS3 and Wii sales accelerate. Nintendo probably has sold way more Wii units than MS sold X360 units last Xmas, since MS also had production issues last year (but you didn't have Time magazine proclaim the X360 a bust).

DivotMaker · Post by **DivotMaker** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:23 pm

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/new ... tended.htm

MS extends warranty on all 360's to one year as of today.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:40 pm

DivotMaker wrote:http://www.xbox.com/en-US/community/new ... tended.htm

MS extends warranty on all 360's to one year as of today.

[Neo voice]

"Whoa, just had some serious deja vu. Is this the Matrix?

[/Neo voice]

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:48 pm

I actually think I wish my 360 failed already. I have a launch console that made it over a year.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:21 pm

I've kept this out of the PS3 impressions thread because it is an observation and not a system impression.

I called seven stores Sunday trying to track down a Wi and no one had them, but 5 of them had PS3's.

This Sunday Best Buy had a big shipment of PS'3, advertised and all, passing out vouchers etc. A total of 2 people showed up early to the BB near me to get a PS3 according to an employee and as of yesterday afternoon they still had some in stock.

At lunch today we went to EB, PS3's in stock but no Wi's

I still can't find a freaking Wi to save my life and I just don't get it. Is Nintendo not doing as good a job as Sony in getting system into the market?

Either way I know I was totally wrong in the judgement I made before their launches. I figured picking up a Wi after launch would prove easy and finding a PS3 wouldn't happen until March. I couldn't have been more wrong.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:25 pm

wco81 wrote:Nintendo probably has sold way more Wii units than MS sold X360 units last Xmas, since MS also had production issues last year (but you didn't have Time magazine proclaim the X360 a bust).

Time magazine is known through out the galaxy as a Sony hating propaganda machine.