Indy 500 Postrace thoughts..

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:17 pm

vanburen wrote:Don't wait to do it until it's how you want to do it. Do it when and how your viewers/customers want you to do it.

Since a significant number of our customers do not have HD capability, then we are listening to our customers.

Again, you cats with HD act as if you have the standard American TV setup. You don't. It's the same myopia we see when we react to gaming industry decisions, as if hardcore gamers like us are the norm. We're not.

There's another factor to HD, as well: cost. It takes two separate production crews to do an event in HD, one for analog and one for HD. There is no overlap whatsoever.

I hope the Indy 500 is broadcast in HD soon, too. But it's not as easy as it sounds.

And I can't understand for the life of me why someone wouldn't watch an event in which they're interested just because it's not in HD. Different strokes, I guess.

Hell, if a great movie is on VHS instead of DVD, I'm still going to watch it. No question it's better on DVD, but I'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of what is being presented just because it doesn't give me a technology erection.

Again, different strokes.

Take care,
PK

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:37 pm

Pk, you must still be away from the wife at Indy...you're talking way too much about strokes and erections.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Tue May 30, 2006 5:57 pm

pk500 wrote:
vanburen wrote:Don't wait to do it until it's how you want to do it. Do it when and how your viewers/customers want you to do it.
Since a significant number of our customers do not have HD capability, then we are listening to our customers.

Again, you cats with HD act as if you have the standard American TV setup. You don't. It's the same myopia we see when we react to gaming industry decisions, as if hardcore gamers like us are the norm. We're not.

There's another factor to HD, as well: cost. It takes two separate production crews to do an event in HD, one for analog and one for HD. There is no overlap whatsoever.

I hope the Indy 500 is broadcast in HD soon, too. But it's not as easy as it sounds.

And I can't understand for the life of me why someone wouldn't watch an event in which they're interested just because it's not in HD. Different strokes, I guess.

Hell, if a great movie is on VHS instead of DVD, I'm still going to watch it. No question it's better on DVD, but I'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of what is being presented just because it doesn't give me a technology erection.

Again, different strokes.

Take care,
PK

I don't buy a word of any of the arguments above, PK. You're listening to your customers? At best, you are listening to your advertisers, who aren't giving you the same coin they might have 10 years ago, but to your customers? It's not an either-or thing with HD, and it doesn't take two entirely separate production crews, as you claim. It's essentially as easy as pushing a button to get a standard NTSC signal out of an HD source.

It is more expensive to produce live sports in HD, that must be true. But not as much more as it used to, just due to the fact there are more and more trucks and gear every day, and not as much as if you did it with two separate crews.

However, whatever the cost difference it's clear ABC doesn't feel the Indy 500 deserves to be in HD, which I think is a pox on ABC. There is no doubt that: A.) All of the major sporting events on American TV are in HD, at least those that take palce in North America as opposed to the 3 Grand Slam tennis events not in the USA for example. ABC will show NBA playoffs in the early rounds in HD, but not the Indy 500? And B.) NASCAR is all over the freaking place in HD, on three separate networks all who clearly think they are listening to their customers by putting the races on in HD. Either that or they're all crazy and ABC is smarter than anyone.

Both of those points were the crux of vanburen's original argument, and neither was addressed by you. The 'listening to your customers' line is a cop out at best. SDTV owners may not notice the difference, but believe me HD owners do, and there are more and more HD owners every day. It's just like B&W vs. color TV, it's exactly the same.

Boltman · Post by **Boltman** » Tue May 30, 2006 8:30 pm

pk500 wrote:The only day every year that brings me as much complete joy and astonishment than Race Day at Indy is seeing my kids' excitement and expressions as they open gifts on Christmas morning.

There's simply no single day in my sporting world -- hell, almost in my personal world -- that compares to being at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway on Race Day for the Indianapolis 500. Nothing is even remotely close. Race Day at Indy is about the only day of the year that I don't need an alarm clock or my wife to wake me up in the morning. I always instinctively snap out of bed a few minutes before my alarm is scheduled to buzz, even if it is 4:55 a.m.

Race Day at Indy is magical, mystical, emotional, inspirational and incredible, all in one.

Take care,
PK

Dont let agenda boy jcollins28 from OS hear you say that.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:14 pm

dbdynsty25 wrote:Pk, you must still be away from the wife at Indy...you're talking way too much about strokes and erections.

Nope, got home Monday afternoon.

Take care,
PK

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:30 pm

pk500 wrote:Hell, if a great movie is on VHS instead of DVD, I'm still going to watch it. No question it's better on DVD, but I'm not going to deny myself the pleasure of what is being presented just because it doesn't give me a technology erection.

I don't even own a VHS anymore

Sure, if for some unknown reason the NBA Finals weren't in HD then I would still watch it, but for something like auto racing it's got to stick out from among the other programs for me to watch. For instance, I watched more Masters coverage this year than ever before because it looked fabulous in HD and it felt like I was actually there in person. As only a casual racing fan, I'd rather watch NASCAR in HD than the Indy 500 in SD.

The Senior PGA Tour was in HD this weekend for God's sake!

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Tue May 30, 2006 9:31 pm

As I understand it, the Speedway's own TV production company does the video feed, not ABC itself. I could be wrong though.

I'm not sure Jack Arute in HD is a good idea.

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Tue May 30, 2006 10:53 pm

sfz_T-car wrote:As I understand it, the Speedway's own TV production company does the video feed, not ABC itself. I could be wrong though.

I'm not sure Jack Arute in HD is a good idea.

If you think Jack Arute in HD is a bad idea, how do you feel about Brent Musberger?

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Tue May 30, 2006 11:16 pm

Brent wasn't too bad. The "You are looking LIIVE at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway" to open the program brought a big game atmosphere to the broadcast.

Jack Beirut was his usual asinine self. I suppose the 500 is the only IRL race that many viewers watch all year, so his old "football field in a second" chestnut wasn't completely uncalled for. But Jack was the pit reporter where Team Penske was stationed and totally missed one of the main stories of the first half of the race: why Helio fell off the pace so dramatically.

vanburen · Post by **vanburen** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:46 am

thanks for the backup zep.

I'm not calling for HD for the great race b/c I'm some tech geek. I got into the HD game late, and I pulled the trigger on buying one b/c so many great sporting events were being broadcast that way.

Indy's competition in sports does it. The network broadcasting indy does it. And Indy's primary competition, nascar, which many racing fans consider inferior to open wheel indy racing, does it.

Not having the race in HD makes Indy seem like an event for old folks. Of course, I will and did watch it on regular tv. but could I recommend it to non-fans b/c it looked great too? No.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:58 am

vanburen wrote:thanks for the backup zep.

I'm not calling for HD for the great race b/c I'm some tech geek. I got into the HD game late, and I pulled the trigger on buying one b/c so many great sporting events were being broadcast that way.

Indy's competition in sports does it. The network broadcasting indy does it. And Indy's primary competition, nascar, which many racing fans consider inferior to open wheel indy racing, does it.

Not having the race in HD makes Indy seem like an event for old folks. Of course, I will and did watch it on regular tv. but could I recommend it to non-fans b/c it looked great too? No.

There are so many factors to consider here.

One, comparing the HD broadcast of the Indianapolis 500 to that of an NBA playoff game is silly. The Indianapolis Motor Speedway is HUGE: You can fit all of Vatican City, the Roman Coliseum, Churchill Downs, the Rose Bowl, Wimbledon and Yankee Stadium on the infield of the facility and still have room left over. Don't believe me? Check it out:

http://www.indy500.com/trackmap/flashmap.html

And yes, most NASCAR races are in HD. But as Neck said, the cameras used in coverage of stock cars are not nearly as sophisticated -- or small -- as those used in open-wheel racing.

And finally, not all 2.5-mile ovals are the same. You can mount a camera atop the main grandstand at Daytona and see the entire track. There is no camera mount or position at IMS from where you can see the whole track. The facility is a rectangle with corners, with grandstands lining both sides of the main straight, with trees, viewing mounds and structures in the infield. Daytona has a massive, tall grandstand along the front straight and a small grandstand along the backstretch, and that's about it. Nothing in the corners. The only place at IMS without a grandstand is the back stretch, and none of the stands are that tall.

IMS is unlike any other oval in the world in that regard. So ABC would have to invest much more to do the Indy 500 in HD than Fox does to cover Daytona in HD due to the unique nature of the facility. Fox also paid a hell of a lot more to get NASCAR broadcast rights than ABC did to get Indy 500 rights, so I'm sure Fox is willing to make the more significant investment in HD.

You simply have no idea how massive IMS is until you've been there. As Lance Armstrong said Saturday during his press conference, "Flying in over the track, it looks more like a city than a racetrack."

Again, I hope ABC does the 500 in HD very soon. And there's no question that the lack of HD is a bummer. But broadcasting the 500 in HD is a more complicated process than broadcasting a game at a much smaller venue or broadcasting a static event (golf) at a comparable-sized venue.

I'll finish by saying it's a bit depressing that a thread about one of the most exciting races of recent years has devolved into a debate about the technical presentation of that event. Have we become such tech geeks that how an event is presented is more important than the event itself?

I sure as hell hope not.

Take care,
PK

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Wed May 31, 2006 11:07 am

It's like an AV club back in highschool.

The race was fantastic. As a casual fan, if you just watched the last 50 laps of the race you see why this is the greatest spectacle on earth.

Which brings me to this point. I don't understand how F1 races are huge in Europe and NASCAR can sell out every Nextel race or close to it. Yet outside of the 500, Indy racing is largely non-existant. I blame it on marketing the Indy product. F1 racing is a strange beast in my book. A lot of hard racing and very little crashes. Where as in NASCAR crashes are apart of the product though not entirely the whole product. The excitement of the pits and general since that almost anyone could win at any race.

Still Indy car is doing a poor job at putting people in the seats outside of the 500.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed May 31, 2006 11:10 am

JRod wrote:It's like an AV club back in highschool.

Funny line, JRod!

Take care,
PK

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed May 31, 2006 2:52 pm

pk500 wrote:One, comparing the HD broadcast of the Indianapolis 500 to that of an NBA playoff game is silly.

That would be silly. Who did that? I mentioned the NBA, but only in the context that I picked an event I was interested in response to your comment "And I can't understand for the life of me why someone wouldn't watch an event in which they're interested just because it's not in HD." I was agreeing with you. In the unlikely event the Finals weren't in HD (they are in HD because it is certainly easier to broadcast), I would still watch.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:56 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
pk500 wrote:One, comparing the HD broadcast of the Indianapolis 500 to that of an NBA playoff game is silly.
That would be silly. Who did that? I mentioned the NBA, but only in the context that I picked an event I was interested in response to your comment "And I can't understand for the life of me why someone wouldn't watch an event in which they're interested just because it's not in HD." I was agreeing with you. In the unlikely event the Finals weren't in HD (they are in HD because it is certainly easier to broadcast), I would still watch.

Easy, now: It was Zeppo who made the NBA comparison in his original rebuttal. To which I respond, "Jane, you ignorant slut ... "

Take care,
PK

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:02 pm

Oh, Zeppo's posts are always too long. I never have the attention span to read them

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:06 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
pk500 wrote:One, comparing the HD broadcast of the Indianapolis 500 to that of an NBA playoff game is silly.
That would be silly. Who did that?

I did, in my parade of cheap shots!

Seriously, though, it does cost money to upgrade to HD especially in an operation that is as comlex and large as covering the speedway.

But in the end, that's just and excuse. By now, a great percentage of local cable coverage of pro teams is in HD, and tons of nationally covered sports are in HD as well. It may take a ton of new cameras and a ton of new cable and new gear in the control room etc., to gear up the Speedway for HD, but the stuff is out there, and all it takes to do it is money. It's just like going from B&W to color; maybe not precisely the same in terms of costs, but I would bet pretty close.

Eventually, the Indy 500 will be in HD, and until then there is a growing audience that will lament the fact that it is not, whatever the reason may be that it is not. I don't think it's out of line to complain a little bit about the lack of HD coverage for what is, or should be, a vital American annual event, particulalry when so many humdrum, run of the mill sports events are in HD on a great range of outlets, particularly NASCAR. Every bit of added pressure for some organization to upgrade into the twenty-first century is a good thing.

Now, I didn't watch the race, but I would have whether in HD or not if I hadn't been on a highway heading towards Hartford to see the soccer game at the time.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed May 31, 2006 9:55 pm

I am not into racing but I think if it was in HD, the indy500, i would probably watch it. If the place is so magical, imagine how awesome it would look in HD. I think they are missing out on a great sales opportunity. If the race and the speedway is what you're selling, then sell it the best way you can, broadcast in hd.

Ok, I think it's time for a threadjack, we're going in circles here. Hey, how about those Marlins!

vanburen · Post by **vanburen** » Wed May 31, 2006 10:38 pm

pk500 wrote: There are so many factors to consider here.

I'm sure Fox is willing to make the more significant investment in HD.

You simply have no idea how massive IMS is until you've been there.

first, good point on investment. if you say it's really that expensive, maybe it is, and I know indycar doesn't make as much as nascar. but I think the investment would be worth it.

And I have been there for a brickyard nascar race. I was much more impressed with the track than the race.

I already say the indy 500 is the best race, and this year's was awesome. what more was there to say?

I just want it to be even better from a fan perspective so more people can enjoy it like I do, and HD would bring in more casual sports fans. mainly I was looking for some reasons, and I got them.

thanks.

Gurantsu · Post by **Gurantsu** » Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:25 am

I've been to IMS quite a few times in person, and to the best of my knowledge it is not HD in real life!

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:51 am

Two of the many reasons why I dig Indy winner Sam Hornish Jr.:

1. Did his wife, Crystal, get a fancy manicure and her hair done the day after he won the Indy 500? No. She did laundry at a friend's house.

2. Where did Sam and Crystal eat after Sam finished all of his Race Night media commitments? Ruth's Chris? A five-star joint? No. Burger King.

My kind of people!

Take care,
PK

Neckthai · Post by **Neckthai** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:11 pm

And he remembered that you sang "Ring of Fire" at the wedding of a mutual friend...

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:15 pm

pk500 wrote:2. Where did Sam and Crystal eat after Sam finished all of his Race Night media commitments? Ruth's Chris? A five-star joint? No. Burger King.

Not Steak N Shake!?!?

Doesn't Sam own a bowling alley in/near his hometown?

fsquid · Post by **fsquid** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:27 pm

Just curious, will the Brickyard 500 be in HD?

sfz_T-car · Post by **sfz_T-car** » Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:49 pm

Neckthai wrote:And he remembered that you sang "Ring of Fire" at the wedding of a mutual friend...

Back-story?