OT: Racing 2015 (Spoiler Alert)

[pk500]

Believe nothing about NASCAR. It's a rudderless ship of a series.

Can it ever regain it's glory?

Depends on when you consider to be its glory era.

[Rodster]

For me Nascar's glory years were between 1986 and 2001. Nascar's popularity soared after the Tom Cruise movie "Days of Thunder". You had an amazing cast of characters back them with Ernie "Swervin" Irvin, Ricky Rudd, Dale Jarrett, Rusty Wallace, just to name a few.

After Earnhardt died they sold out the series to the highest bidder which was the networks. If Earnhardt Sr. were alive today he would have beat people silly at the thought of the Chase and pissing off it's southern fanbase. And Earnhardt was sooo popular the Nascar brass feared pissing him off.

[pk500]

Here's one of the most overlooked reasons why NASCAR is stumbling: The poor leadership of Brian France.

The old saying goes: "The third generation always screws up the family business. The old man starts the business, his son works out of respect and fear to make it successful. And then the grandson, who has grown up in easy wealth and privilege due to hard work of grandfather and father, destroys it."

So true in this case. Think of all the decisions Brian has made that have damaged the sport in the last 10 years. The Chase. Car of Tomorrow. Removing traditional dates and venues. Constant tweaking with car specs. Constant changes to race start times to cater to TV. The list goes on and on.

Drivers such as Earnhardt feared and respected Big Bill France and Bill France Jr. They laugh at Brian the rare times he decides to show up at a race or enter the garage area. His grandfather and father were at every race and constant, looming, towering presences in the garage.

Combine that lack of leadership with the persistent rumors of the continuation of Brian's substance abuse problem, and it's easy to see why NASCAR has lost its rudder.

[pk500]

And Earnhardt was sooo popular the Nascar brass feared pissing him off.

Not true. Bill France Jr. ruled that garage area with an iron fist during his tenure as NASCAR CEO. He had the respect and fear of every driver, including Earnhardt.

The difference between then and now was the NASCAR brass in the 90s had the same ideology and passion about the sport and its fan base as Earnhardt and guys like Gant, Wallace, Martin, etc. Now the brass is led by the inept Brian France and a bunch of suits who could care less about racing and see the sport as a commodity to be bought and sold.

[Dave]

Here's one of the most overlooked reasons why NASCAR is stumbling: The poor leadership of Brian France.
...
Combine that lack of leadership with the persistent rumors of the continuation of Brian's substance abuse problem, and it's easy to see why NASCAR has lost its rudder.

Bingo. Brian wants nothing but 'highs' from the series, hence the latest abomination of a points system. As much as I hate the process that got them to this point, prioritizing wins has a place. But they bastardized the hell out of it to get to where they are today. It would have been so fitting to have mid-packer Ryan Newman end up as champ last year after stumbling and crashing his way into the final 4.

I'm such a hypocrite/sucker though, Jeff Gordon has a chance to go out on top next month. I'm tuning in no matter what in a few weeks to see if he can close the deal. I watched him dominate IRP (and other USAC tracks thanks to Thursday Night Thunder) as a kid and drove through Pittsboro so often. But once he's gone, I might not give a damn about the traveling WWE that Brian has turned NASCAR into these days.

[F308GTB]

Put a wrap on the MotoGP season. Exciting race for Rossi as he did all he could to move up the order. As the laps went on I certainly felt Marquez was doing his best not to pass Lorenzo, and once Pedrosa met up with the dawdling twosome and overtook Marquez things changed. He responded to Pedrosa like a cat on a mouse, killing the rhythm of the clearly faster Pedrosa and gifting the win, and the title, to Lorenzo. Back in the pack during Rossi's charge through the field it also looked like riders were putting up little to no fight against Rossi. A day of shenanigans.

[fletcher21]

Does anyone else think Nascar races are too long? Flipping thru I just had the race on for a few minutes and my daughter asked why they have 334 laps. I know Nascar races have always been around 4-500 miles, but would it be so bad to maybe go down to 200 miles. The first 85% of all Nascar races are absolutely meaningless. Moto gp races pack more action and drama into 30 laps than we will see in 334 today at texas. I know motorcycle racing is 100000x harder on the racers than car racing, but why don't they shorten the races. Make it so you need only 1-2 pit stops and make every lap count. I'm sure traditionalists would scoff, but if my 7 year old realizes 334 laps is a ton, maybe it is? Even in my Nascar loving days when Jeff Gordon drove the rainbow dupont car, I couldn't sit thru an entire race. Add in the pre race and post race and it's damn near 6 hours of coverage. Too much imo.

[Rodster]

Agreed, there are some Nascar races that feel as long as an entire NBA season. Nascar is still a slightly different racing series because Nascar is the epitome of a rolling billboards. That's why advertisers love Nascar. The more exposure for the advertisers, the better.

[fletcher21]

Agreed, there are some Nascar races that feel as long as an entire NBA season. Nascar is still a slightly different racing series because Nascar is the epitome of a rolling billboards. That's why advertisers love Nascar. The more exposure for the advertisers, the better.

My wifes grandparents are 70 and retired. They watch every lap, every Nascar weekly show and every pre and post race. Once people like them are dead I don't think they can keep these marathon races. The coke 600 is cool due to the day into night, but who in their right mind wants to watch 334 laps? Even if you're at the track, do you really want to watch a 4 hour race? Everything is too long besides the nfl and college seasons. 82 nhl or nba games? Who gives a rats ass about lap 12 of a Nascar race or a nba game in November. All about the $$$$ so I doubt it changes. Nascar races need to sell us more trucks or cheap beer.

[F308GTB]

F1 is limited by kilometers (or time if too many safety cars), DTM is a 60 minute race, BTCC are about 30 minutes each with several races every weekend, ... Sure endurance racing can be long, but there are plenty that aren't, and even the 6, 12, or 24 hour races are more interesting than nonstop left turns. Yep, NASCAR for the most part is boring. Bristol is entertaining due to the number of cars in a small track. Super speedways are a great time for a Sunday nap. That said, haven't watched NASCAR in years.

[Rodster]

Two racing tidbits today:

1) There's speculation that winning Nascar drivers ruin their cheater cars while celebrating their win because Nascar doesn't inspect them the same way after the race if they didn't win.

2) The Austin GP is in serious trouble. Texas has cut 20% funding for the event and promoters lost their shirt with this years event with all the rain. Bernie still wants to expand in the US and I have my doubts anyone else will step up to replace them. I was amazed Austin jumped at the chance with so many events in financial trouble.

[Dave]

2) The Austin GP is in serious trouble. Texas has cut 20% funding for the event and promoters lost their shirt with this years event with all the rain. Bernie still wants to expand in the US and I have my doubts anyone else will step up to replace them. I was amazed Austin jumped at the chance with so many events in financial trouble.

I was very skeptical of the entire project and it pleasantly surprised me to see everything come together for a USGP. However, it shows how unstable the event is when the government subsidy dropping to *only* $19.5mm puts the event in jeopardy. Makes me wonder how much red ink the USGP was responsible for in the Hulman-George finances by the end of the F1 run in Indy.

It is another reminder of the sad state of the F1 calendar. At least we finally get the long-desired race in Azerbaijan to go along with historic racing hotbeds like Abu Dhabi and Bahrain

[Rodster]

2) The Austin GP is in serious trouble. Texas has cut 20% funding for the event and promoters lost their shirt with this years event with all the rain. Bernie still wants to expand in the US and I have my doubts anyone else will step up to replace them. I was amazed Austin jumped at the chance with so many events in financial trouble.

I was very skeptical of the entire project and it pleasantly surprised me to see everything come together for a USGP. However, it shows how unstable the event is when the government subsidy dropping to *only* $19.5mm puts the event in jeopardy. Makes me wonder how much red ink the USGP was responsible for in the Hulman-George finances by the end of the F1 run in Indy.

It is another reminder of the sad state of the F1 calendar. At least we finally get the long-desired race in Azerbaijan to go along with historic racing hotbeds like Abu Dhabi and Bahrain

But that pretty much applies to EVERY race on the F1 calendar. That's why so many races get dropped. Monza and Silverstone are also questionable, long term. The ONLY race on the F1 calendar that gets handouts from Bernie and is treated like Ferrari is, Monaco.

On the flip side, every version of Codemaster's F1 games is a keeper with so many races coming and going.

[pk500]

Makes me wonder how much red ink the USGP was responsible for in the Hulman-George finances by the end of the F1 run in Indy.

Not as much as Austin. The red ink from the USGP dripped at IMS, not flowed like at COTA.

Arrogance and hubris are sinking Austin. It's incredible that men as successful and rich as Red McCombs and Bobby Epstein created a business model that relied on an annual $20 million gift from state of Texas to be successful. That's insanity, especially in a red state that will use austerity to hold on to power with its base.

[Dave]

Arrogance and hubris are sinking Austin. It's incredible that men as successful and rich as Red McCombs and Bobby Epstein created a business model that relied on an annual $20 million gift from state of Texas to be successful. That's insanity, especially in a red state that will use austerity to hold on to power with its base.

As someone who watched Red McCombs run the Vikings, it isn't surprising to see him involved with another failed venture.

Bernie keeps talking about adding more events in the US, but how the hell is that supposed to happen when a track getting a huge hand-out can't even make it work?

[pk500]

Bernie keeps talking about adding more events in the US, but how the hell is that supposed to happen when a track getting a huge hand-out can't even make it work?

Bernie is tossing soundbites at the media and hoping it sticks. No F1 races will be added to America after Austin. The business model of modern F1 doesn't work without either a discount (Monaco) or massive government subsidies (insert any F1 race in a Third World nation and many in First World nations).

I also love the pipe dream in which fans think Watkins Glen or Road America will upgrade to FIA spec and host an F1 race. Pass the pipe this way ...

[XXXIV]

Rosberg two straight wins...Good for you but you are #2.

Vettel looks very happy with another 3rd.

Looking forward to Ferrari competing with Mercedes next year. Hoping...WIll they?

[fletcher21]

I love interlagos. It was one of my favorite tracks bsck on f1 world grand prix on n64

[Rodster]

Congrats to Mark Webber, crowned WEC champion. Couldn't happen to a better bloke.

[Rodster]

The season had it's moments where Ferrari got closer and took a few victories but it was a rout by Mercedes. In the last final laps Merc decided to go Nascrap and had Nico slowdown and Lewis speedup to make up for Lewis losing time behind a few cars. Then told them both to go Strat 10, even though the race was already decided.

Alonso asking McLaren if he should retire the car if there was no foreseeable safety car topped off his season. There's a rumor brewing that either Capt Morgan or The Ron may put his 2016 season on sabbatical. He should have stayed at Ferrari, big mistake by him and he repeatedly trying to convince the world he made the right decision to join McLaren just reinforces, he screwed up royally.

[pk500]

Congrats to Mark Webber, crowned WEC champion. Couldn't happen to a better bloke.

Agreed. Well said! Congrats, Webbo!

[WPatrick]

http://www.amazon.com/Winning-Racing-Li ... B00XBUGZXC
Documentary on Paul Newmans racing career. This is free with Amazon prime. It's quite good I watched it over the weekend.

[Rodster]

My impression of Ron Dennis has always been, he's a sneaky, lying POS. I remember his Alonso is devoid of all injuries comments. It wouldn't surprise me that Alonso's McLaren failed during testing earlier this year which caused Alonso to wind up in a Spanish hospital.

It wouldn't surprise me, that Dennis and Alonso had a verbal agreement back in 2007 for #1 driver status until Dennis saw what Hamilton, his prodigy could do as a rookie and backed off the #1 status.

And now we hear and read that the reason Kevin Magnussen was dropped from the team was because Ron Dennis gave him certain goals to achieve which Ron says were never met. And now Kevin Magussen who actually did a decent job back in 2014 says, no goals or targets were ever set by Dennis, pretty typical for The Ron.

http://en.f1i.com/news/37925-dennis-cou ... ussen.html

[GB_Simo]

My impression of Ron Dennis has always been, he's a sneaky, lying POS. I remember his Alonso is devoid of all injuries comments. It wouldn't surprise me that Alonso's McLaren failed during testing earlier this year which caused Alonso to wind up in a Spanish hospital.

It wouldn't surprise me, that Dennis and Alonso had a verbal agreement back in 2007 for #1 driver status until Dennis saw what Hamilton, his prodigy could do as a rookie and backed off the #1 status.

And now we hear and read that the reason Kevin Magnussen was dropped from the team was because Ron Dennis gave him certain goals to achieve which Ron says were never met. And now Kevin Magussen who actually did a decent job back in 2014 says, no goals or targets were ever set by Dennis, pretty typical for The Ron.

http://en.f1i.com/news/37925-dennis-cou ... ussen.html

Thoughts on both:

Magnussen came into F1 as reigning Formula Renault 3.5 champion, having seen off fellow McLaren protege Stoffel Vandoorne along the way. What he then needed to do was blow Jenson Button into the weeds, particularly given that 2014 was not Jenson's finest year in motor sport. The podium finish on his debut was a clear highlight, one which gave real credence to the thoughts of those claiming that here was someone a bit special and one which should have provided the perfect platform from which to build. He didn't, which is what led to an apparently straightforward decision surrounding drivers for 2015 turning into a long-running, faintly ridiculous soap opera. Whether that's fair and whether emerging talents should get more than a season to prove themselves is another debate but ultimately, it's a debate that wouldn't have existed in this case had Magnussen shown Button the way.


Mention of long-running, faintly ridiculous soap operas leads me to Ron, a man who's never won a race when he could instead take a moment to fully and properly succeed in the attainment of a series of pre-defined parameters with reference to the application of speed. I don't think Ron's a sneaky, lying POS - at least, not to any greater extent than the majority of the F1 paddock - but I see him as having two obvious shortcomings, these being the chips he keeps on each shoulder.

Ron started out as a mechanic with Cooper in the mid 1960s, then spent time at Brabham before setting up his own operation. (Useless fact of the day: Sir Jack lost certain victory at Brands Hatch in 1970 when his engine coughed on the last lap. Someone had set the engine to run rich when it was being warmed up and then forgot to lean it off again. Guess who?) He's demonstrated beyond doubt any number of times that he's a driven individual, one with a firm idea of where he's going, how to get there and how best to recruit along the way. That's so much of the reason why Brabham's mechanic went on to form Rondel, then Project Four, then mastermind the takeover of McLaren...whichever way you slice it, Ron has a huge record of achievement. If I'd risen from junior mechanic to lord and master of all I surveyed at McLaren Automotive, I'd be pretty happy with myself. What I hope I wouldn't do is feel so uncomfortable with where I came from, or with where I'd ended up - it's probably the former in this case but I've always found it difficult to tell - that I'd go to enormous lengths to prove I belonged there.

There's an arrogance to him, of course - I can think of nobody else in the sport who'd turn Niki Lauda's retirement press conference into a rant about how the media ignore John Barnard, nor anyone who'd tell that same assembled media a few years later that, "We make history. You just write about it." It's made a million times worse than it would otherwise be, though, by his sheer awkwardness. For Ron, it's vital that a man in his position has an immediate answer for every question and that if he doesn't, he should at least sound as though he does. Anything less than an immediate response of punishing length is the preserve of the common man, a reminder of what Ron Dennis used to be, and it's his determination to stay away from being that Ron Dennis that leads him into things like the 'devoid of any injuries' episode, or the glorious back-and-forth on Sky Sports F1 a few months back when that noted intellectual Johnny Herbert bamboozled Ron into confirming his 2016 driver line-up live on air. Johnny achieved this through no more complex a technique than listening to Ron's flannel-filled attempts to skirt the issue (sorry: Ron's repeated failure to provide a lexically satisfactory response either pertaining to or comprehensively addressing the specificities of Johnny's question), then continually claiming not to have understood Ron's last answer.

Tl;dr edition: I've always reckoned that Ron's a product of his upbringing, but not in the conventional sense...

[Rodster]

My sentiments, exactly and why no in-season testing is a JOKE. Leave to the FIA to constantly getting things wrong. The only thing they seemed to have gotten right was the current qualifying system.
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"The in-season testing ban was introduced for 2009 on the grounds of cost saving, the same excuse that’s led to the currently hugely expensive power units. In fact, most of the rules aimed at making Formula 1 cheaper or greener seem to have had the opposite effect. The lack of track time before and during the season is also a criminal waste of talent, most clearly obvious when you look at McLaren-Honda. The Anglo-Japanese squad’s problems might not have been solved with just a few days pounding round Silverstone, but one can assume that two of the best drivers on the grid might have been much more competitive last year with a relaxation of the testing restrictions."

http://en.f1i.com/magazine/38316-eric-s ... lwind.html