NHL 07 and NHL 2k7 IMPRESSIONS

HipE · Post by **HipE** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 10:04 pm

Leebo33 wrote:HipE, is the CPU scoring against you now? I am playing on All-Star and actually gave up 6 goals in my last game to Calgary as Toronto (picked them to play a Dynasty until the Pens roster is updated). In another game I gave up 5, but have also had a couple games where I only gave up 1 or 2.

The bad news is that the game counted my 6-1 loss against Calgary as an OT loss so I have a point that I didn't earn.

The CPU is scoring on me more now. Switching to playing 10 minute periods probably had a little something to do with it.

I've been playing lately using Playmaker's sliders on Superstar and having some pretty good games. The shot totals for each team are usually very believable, although the scoring is a little high. I'm even winning more faceoffs than the CPU nearly every game now. The only stat that is really out of whack is the hitting, as I usually outhit the CPU about 80 to 10. I'm not too worried about it though as long as the shots and the scoring look good and I'm having fun. I created Evgeni Malkin and Jordan Staal tonight to give the Penguins some help at center, and I'm ready to start my franchise now.

One thing I just realized while playing today is that holing down the left trigger while skating with the puck is very useful when you are on offense. It really helps to skate backwards when you have the puck in the offensive zone in order to get a clear lane to shoot, rather than having to turn around to skate back across the ice if you are near the boards.

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:13 pm

Ok you 2k7 players, I thought I saw the 3 star presentation after a game, but I haven't see it after 4 more games, is this random or am I seeing things?

dbdynsty25 · Post by **dbdynsty25** » Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:16 pm

I have seen it after all of my games...I'm doing the traditional broadcast without any of the cinemotion stuff.

JackB1 · Post by **JackB1** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:16 am

this thread is getting a little confusing....sometimes I cant tell which game you guys are discussing? NHL07 or 2K7?

maybe we could split off into 2 threads from this point on? Jared?

Spooky · Post by **Spooky** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:21 am

JackB1 wrote:this thread is getting a little confusing....sometimes I cant tell which game you guys are discussing? NHL07 or 2K7?

maybe we could split off into 2 threads from this point on? Jared?

Totally agree. Especially if you just want to quickly glance at general impressions.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:32 am

laurenskye wrote:I've been a 2K guy for years and I can't believe some of what I'm hearing. Clearing the front of the net is more important than neutral zone play? Then everyone wanted an NHL hitz type goalie, which EA has.

Yes, it is. What's the point of having proper flow in the neutral zone if your forwards can waltz deep into the offensive zone for shots and then wait for rebounds without any trouble?

Here's another reason why proper defensive play in front of the crease is vital. Through the years, the NHL has seen different theories and styles of neutral-zone play. Before Orr, forwards almost always carried the puck through the neutral zone. Then Orr revolutionized the game, and defensemen carried the puck, a trend continued through the 80s by Coffey, Bourque, Potvin and more.

Other trends included headmanning, used by the great Canadiens' dynasty of the 70s in which the puck and skaters moved north and south, helped by the great skating ability of Lafleur. Lemaire, Mondou, Shutt, Jarvis, Gainey, Houle, etc. It didn't hurt to have Larry Robinson and Serge Savard making breakout passes from deep in their end and the neutral zone, either.

The Soviet Red Army team blew everyone away with their very different style of constant weaving through the neutral zone. It was a combination of an egg beater and a scythe all at once, ripping teams to shreds.

Then the dreaded neutral-zone trap arrived in the early 90s, clogging the zone for all. The zone started to open up again last year with the new rules.

In summary, neutral zone play has evolved and changed through the years and various rules changes. <b>But proper defensive positioning and clearing the man from the crease has not.</b>

From the days of Eddie Shore to Tom Johnson to Scott Stevens and now to Chris Pronger, the fundamental job of the defensemen in tight is to clear the puck and the player from the crease area. That's why it's more important that is modeled properly in a hockey game than neutral zone play.

You can still prevent goals if teams are allowed to skate through the neutral zone. But you can't stop goals -- and unrealistic ones at that -- if forwards are allowed to camp on the edges of the crease and pick up rebounds like garbage day in a subdivision, time after time.

Take care,
PK

MizzouRah · Post by **MizzouRah** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:37 am

dbdynsty25 wrote:I have seen it after all of my games...I'm doing the traditional broadcast without any of the cinemotion stuff.

Hmmm.. I'll have to try that setting tonight, thanks!

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:10 am

I disagree. neutral zone play dictates the whole ebb and flow, making the game seam real or not. I can take control of a D man and clear the slot. but I can't control the flow of the game when I can skate end to end.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:11 am

laurenskye wrote:I disagree. neutral zone play dictates the whole ebb and flow, making the game seam real or not. I can take control of a D man and clear the slot. but I can't control the flow of the game when I can skate end to end.

It's not about the human AI -- it's the CPU AI.

A hockey game is absolutely worthless if the CPU defensemen don't attempt to stop you from skating toward the low slot and crease for a shot. And it's doubly worthless if the CPU D doesn't clear your forwards from the crease after a shot and lets you take rebound shots at will.

That's WAY more fundamental than neutral zone play.

Take care,
PK

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:24 am

More fundamental, yes. More important in a video game, no. That's why pulling your goalie is suicide in 2K, it's way too easy to skate up ice and throw it in the empty net. Both are crucial parts in hockey, I'm not arguing that, but I would rather have a game that makes me work hard to get it in the zone than simple end to end rushes.

Let's put it this way, in a football game would you rather have a game that makes you work hard to get to the 5 yard line and then easy to get a touchdown, or a game where it's easy to get to the 5 and then hard to score.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:26 am

Starting to see disturbing reports of a money goal in NHL 07...can anyone confirm?

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:34 am

PLEASE do not post any money goals for either game in this thread! I had Madden 06 for Xbox ruined at this forum due to the lack of a spoiler warning about the giveaway glitch. I never find this stuff out on my own.

webdanzer · Post by **webdanzer** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:36 am

That's why I didn't describe it. But since I'm trying to determine which of the two games I'm going to keep, I'd like to know if it exists. It would help me make my decision.

PM is fine.

RallyMonkey · Post by **RallyMonkey** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 11:55 am

Due to the right stick and the +/- human error factor in using it, i would be surprised if there's a money goal out there for all. Maybe for the 14 year old quick reflexed punk who's parents should make him study more, but for this 35 year old you could probably put me alone on the ice with the exact money goal and i'd blow it 5 out of 10 times.

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 12:56 pm

laurenskye wrote:More fundamental, yes. More important in a video game, no. That's why pulling your goalie is suicide in 2K, it's way too easy to skate up ice and throw it in the empty net. Both are crucial parts in hockey, I'm not arguing that, but I would rather have a game that makes me work hard to get it in the zone than simple end to end rushes.

Let's put it this way, in a football game would you rather have a game that makes you work hard to get to the 5 yard line and then easy to get a touchdown, or a game where it's easy to get to the 5 and then hard to score.

Without proper defensive play deep in your zone, I would think pulling your goalie would be just as suicidal in NHL 07. Once you clear the neutral zone, you're home-free.

To answer your question, I'd rather have a hockey game that has proper defensive positioning by the AI inside of its zone.

Take care,
PK

Leebo33 · Post by **Leebo33** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:01 pm

pk500 wrote:I'd rather have a hockey game that has proper defensive positioning by the AI inside of its zone.

PK, did you get 2K7 for Xbox? It's only $20, right?

TRI · Post by **TRI** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:04 pm

pk500 wrote:
laurenskye wrote:More fundamental, yes. More important in a video game, no. That's why pulling your goalie is suicide in 2K, it's way too easy to skate up ice and throw it in the empty net. Both are crucial parts in hockey, I'm not arguing that, but I would rather have a game that makes me work hard to get it in the zone than simple end to end rushes.

Let's put it this way, in a football game would you rather have a game that makes you work hard to get to the 5 yard line and then easy to get a touchdown, or a game where it's easy to get to the 5 and then hard to score.
Without proper defensive play deep in your zone, I would think pulling your goalie would be just as suicidal in NHL 07. Once you clear the neutral zone, you're home-free.

To answer your question, I'd rather have a hockey game that has proper defensive positioning by the AI inside of its zone.

Take care,
PK

PK, have you played NHL 2007 for XBOX 360?

laurenskye · Post by **laurenskye** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:41 pm

Hey wait a minute, PK doesn't have a 360...

I hear the 360 version is way better than other versions so maybe that's what your'e basing your opinion on?

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:07 pm

Leebo33 wrote:
pk500 wrote:I'd rather have a hockey game that has proper defensive positioning by the AI inside of its zone.
PK, did you get 2K7 for Xbox? It's only $20, right?

Leebo:

I'm looking to rent it. I'm not buying any more Xbox games, as I'm -- BIG GULP and EXHALE -- contemplating the purchase of a 360 if funds can be raised.

Take care,
PK

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:08 pm

laurenskye wrote:Hey wait a minute, PK doesn't have a 360...

I hear the 360 version is way better than other versions so maybe that's what your'e basing your opinion on?

I'm basing it on Scoop's nine-minute video of NHL 07 on the Xbox 360. To be fair, he did say the difficulty was on Pro and said he will make a video of All-Star gameplay. I'm eager to see that.

Take care,
PK

JRod · Post by **JRod** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:17 pm

I think NHL 07 is a good game for what it is, a first year effort. It's not much more than that. By no means is it a terrible title but it just doesn't feel like hockey. If reminds me a lot of FIFA. You not really playing hockey but you are trying to beat a system. Yes, every game is nothing more than a system but the great ones make you feel like you are playing against the real thing. I don't get that feeling in NHL 07.

Every team feels likes it's playing against the 06 playoff Avs - Theodore is hurt so just fire as many shots as you can against him. For as many shots the CPU takes, it still mostly scores on rebounds and garbage goals. I haven't seen maybe a few go in from a clear wrister or slap shot.

I think the saving grace of the game is the r-stick but even that needs to be tweaked. IMHO.

I'm glad I rented this game and not bought it, I am not enjoying the game even though scoring goals is fun. In that way its exactly like FIFA. Whether you are Real Madrid or Squiddy's Sheffield, each team is too close in ability and great players are hard to distinguish from ok players.

Zeppo · Post by **Zeppo** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:30 pm

pk500 wrote:
Leebo33 wrote:
pk500 wrote:I'd rather have a hockey game that has proper defensive positioning by the AI inside of its zone.
PK, did you get 2K7 for Xbox? It's only $20, right?
Leebo:

I'm looking to rent it. I'm not buying any more Xbox games, as I'm -- BIG GULP and EXHALE -- contemplating the purchase of a 360 if funds can be raised.

Take care,
PK

It's got to be that Test Drive pulling you in, huh?

Not the toughest physics model, but soooo much fun to drive, with the best cockpit view I've every seen, at least on the widescreen, HD display, and racing point to point through traffic in stock 68' Camaros is just nothing but great times!

Back to hockey: I'm very happy you are back posting, PK, but I don't think it's fair to have firm opinions one way or the other having only seen a 5 minute video of a game at Pro difficulty, and that with no slider tweaks etc. Also, maybe in 2K they do a better job of shielding in the crease and clearing the crease, but what about other complaints, mainly that the D will just track back, leaving a big cushion, all the way to the crease? I think the real point is that both games have flaws, and both games have things they do really well, especially in comparison to the other. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference; what things are deal breakers for you, and which game has fewer.

It seems to me (despite web trying to stir things up with his money goal talk

) that both games are pretty solid for the most part, and yet there are things about either game that some people just can't get past. (BTW the money goal talk in the EA game, is that any worse than the classic 2K 'swoosh' goal, that appears to be still going strong?)

I am leaning towards getting the EA game, but I generally prefer to play online, so the finer points of AI play and franchise mess-ups don't concern me too much. I know the 2K has robust online season options, but I just can't abide the 'one round at a time' bottleneck problems, and would prefer to have the freedom to let deadbeats be deadbeats in a league, and let those who want to play their games to actually play them. Of course, having injuries and trades etc. is huge, but in the end I am not sure I can deal with another year of the same old 2K engine. The thing that bugs me the most in the demo is the uselessly accurate Y-button aiming. Why on earth would I ever want to do a full-power, slapshot Y-button clear from my own end DIRECTLY INTO THE BOARDS that goes 2'? And that Y-button still looses all momentum and power when it hits an opposing player; it doesn't pop up or carom energetically away, it gets soaked up like the bowling ball into Homer's belly. This, and the general difficulty with using the boards especially in your own end, has really bugged me forever in 2K hockey. The new stick control of the EA, given that no one has yet to report something truly broken about the game (framerate issues noted) pushes me in that direction.

Plus Gary Thorne!

GameSeven · Post by **GameSeven** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:38 pm

JRod wrote:[...] each team is too close in ability and great players are hard to distinguish from ok players.

I have only played EA's game so far this year though I look forward to trying 2K's game. However, I can't believe how maligned NHL 07 has been. Likening it to FIFA is an insult as this game, IMHO, is heads and tails better than any of EA's recent hockey games. I'm sure if we took a nine minute video of 2K7, we'd be able to dissect and find things that it does wrong as well. While playing the games, I have been too engrossed to sit back and analyze the performance of every on-ice player, however with respect to the comment above, I feel that this is one of the areas EA does well. I feel that player ability is pretty distinctly different when using a Marion Gaborik or Manny Maholtra. You may very well find that defensemen in 2K's game are better, but I'd wager that in videos focusing on goaltending, EA will shred 2K.

I'm willing to accept that everyone has different opinions but it seems that the 2K crowd is definitely piling on to a certain extent.

While I can't afford time to play two hockey games, I may switch if my local circle of friends/players are adamant about 2K, but I've given EA the benefit of the doubt so far this year and it's been better than I expected.

-G7

pk500 · Post by **pk500** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 2:56 pm

Zeppo wrote:It's got to be that Test Drive pulling you in, huh? Not the toughest physics model, but soooo much fun to drive, with the best cockpit view I've every seen, at least on the widescreen, HD display, and racing point to point through traffic in stock 68' Camaros is just nothing but great times!

Honestly, that's about 10 percent of it, yeah. The other 90 percent is my disappointment with the Wii launch details and realization that most of the kinds of games I like to play are on the 360. Yeah, the Wii titles would be fresh and fun for a little while, but that arcadish, anime Japanese sh*t wears off on me quickly.

Zeppo wrote:Back to hockey: I'm very happy you are back posting, PK, but I don't think it's fair to have firm opinions one way or the other having only seen a 5 minute video of a game at Pro difficulty, and that with no slider tweaks etc.

Stop lying, you dick. You hate me, and the feeling is mutual.

Zeppo wrote:Also, maybe in 2K they do a better job of shielding in the crease and clearing the crease, but what about other complaints, mainly that the D will just track back, leaving a big cushion, all the way to the crease? I think the real point is that both games have flaws, and both games have things they do really well, especially in comparison to the other. Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference; what things are deal breakers for you, and which game has fewer.

True, true on all accounts. Not fair for me to completely judge a game based on a YouTube video, but I did not like what I saw in Scoop's video one bit. It appeared that JRod's analogy to FIFA was spot-on.

But it does come down to what's important to each player. I must have realism in both defensive ends, or the game is about as useful as a Stairmaster for Rosie O'Donnell.

If and when I get a 360, and honestly I hope it's more "when" than "if" if the funds materialize, I'll definitely rent both games before buying. I know the zealotry that many sports gamers have when it comes to purchasing the right baseball, basketball, soccer or football games. Hockey has that kind of importance to me.

If I have one sim hockey game, one sim racing game and one sim military shooter that please me, then any other game is whipped cream and a cherry on top.

Plus Gary Thorne!

No question. Cole and Neale should have been put out to pucks pasture a decade ago. They're horrible in real life and also in the virtual world.

Take care,
PK

GameSeven · Post by **GameSeven** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 3:03 pm

pk500 wrote: [...] about as useful as a Stairmaster for Rosie O'Donnell..

Dude, you are never at a loss for an analogy

Glad to see you back around DSP...

-G7