MLB Playoffs

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:16 pm

MLB's NL Cy Young pitched another gem. Struggled through a few innings and despite the homer to Burke, he kept his composure. Great win for the Cards!

There's a new Reggie in October. Reggie Sanders is Mr. October! What a gamer.

Inuyasha · Post by **Inuyasha** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:17 pm

pigpen81 wrote:why can't the game be protested?

The umpire CLEARLY signaled "OUT".

8 fielders in the umpires view clearly saw the out call.

Complete garbage, the out should be recorded.

Will MLB have the balls to do it?

No they wont. I dont think the Angels will protest it either.

I just saw the replay and the ump did signal out.

Good game ruined by a bad call.

HipE · Post by **HipE** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:17 pm

Man, that was such a bizarre finish to the game, what a terrible way for the game to end regardless of whether or not it was the right call. I do know that if I was an Angels fan though, I would be livid right now.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:20 pm

The worst call I can remember since the Cards were screwed against the Royals in 85 (?).

The ump did clearly signal an out. It was almost like he didn't have the guts to go against the home team. There wasn't a mark where the ball hit the ground, maybe the Angels could have gone with the grass court tennis approach and used that as evidence.

MLB will issue an apology and the series will go on.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 11:59 pm

Well, apparently the ump signalled the third strike but did not verbally call the out. That is why AJ ran to first base. Josh Paul should have made the tag if he didn't hear an out called. The umps are also saying that the ball did hit the ground after watching replays. Very, very weird.

Danimal · Post by **Danimal** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:00 am

According to the post game press conference the ump says he signaled safe (which he did I saw that) and he was not signaling out, that he was singaling strike (his second motion). He says this is how he always does it, that will be easy for someone to check. Bottom line he should not have given that out / strike signal.

Personally I don't know whether he caught it or not, the ball seems to shift to me when I watch a slow mo replay, but I can't tell in slow motion. I'm not sure how everyone can claim matter of factly he caught it.

An even though I think it is a bad call, the Angles catcher should have tagged him if he didn't hear the umps call. Its not like he saw him give the out/strike signal, he was already on his way off the field and had rolled the ball back by that time.

The unfortunate thing is two outstanding pitching performances and another exciting game will not get any attention because of this.

ddtrane · Post by **ddtrane** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:04 am

We have just witnessed the birth of Instant Replay in Baseball. Whats next for this shell of a game, Salary Cap? No, say it ain't so.

catskinsox · Post by **catskinsox** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 12:17 am

sportdan30 wrote:MLB's NL Cy Young pitched another gem. Struggled through a few innings and despite the homer to Burke, he kept his composure. Great win for the Cards!

There's a new Reggie in October. Reggie Sanders is Mr. October! What a gamer.

Astros wasted opportunities early. And this is not an excuse at all, but what the hell kind of strike zone was that in the 9th? It's bad enough the Astros were rolling over and playing dead, but one of the rare times they showed any life, the ump is calling balls well below the knee strikes.. sheesh..

And I have no idea who this guy calling himself Chris Burke is. Where the hell was that guy during the season?? Maybe the Mets will pick him up in the offseason for a 100+million dollar contract.

matthewk · Post by **matthewk** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:54 am

ddtrane wrote:We have just witnessed the birth of Instant Replay in Baseball.

I was thinking the same thing.

BTW, does anyone know why they even have that rule about the 3rd strike?

sportdan30 · Post by **sportdan30** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:01 am

catskinsox wrote:
sportdan30 wrote:MLB's NL Cy Young pitched another gem. Struggled through a few innings and despite the homer to Burke, he kept his composure. Great win for the Cards!

There's a new Reggie in October. Reggie Sanders is Mr. October! What a gamer.
Astros wasted opportunities early. And this is not an excuse at all, but what the hell kind of strike zone was that in the 9th? It's bad enough the Astros were rolling over and playing dead, but one of the rare times they showed any life, the ump is calling balls well below the knee strikes.. sheesh..

And I have no idea who this guy calling himself Chris Burke is. Where the hell was that guy during the season?? Maybe the Mets will pick him up in the offseason for a 100+million dollar contract.

Couldn't agree with you more about the strike zone in the 9th. It was absolutely laughable in my opinion. I would have been going ballistic if I was an Astros fan watching those pitches being called strikes. Isringhausen has a tendency for being wild, and if those pitches had been getting called a ball, it would have been interesting to see if he would have been able to find the strike zone. Still, you have to give Isringhausen credit for continually going to that same location as he was getting the call from the umpire.

As you said though, the Astros had their chances a few times to get on the scoreboard early. A hit here or hit there, and we'd be talking about possibly a different winner to the game.

lexbur · Post by **lexbur** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:25 am

Danimal wrote:
An even though I think it is a bad call, the Angles catcher should have tagged him if he didn't hear the umps call. Its not like he saw him give the out/strike signal, he was already on his way off the field and had rolled the ball back by that time.

The unfortunate thing is two outstanding pitching performances and another exciting game will not get any attention because of this.

I agree, bad call or not, if it's anywhere near borderline the catcher's gotta make the tag. How many times over the course of the season do you see the catcher make the tag even when it's not necessary, just to be safe?

Either way, FOX is happy. This "controversy" is supposed to boost the ratings for game 3.

Too bad it took something like this to boost the ratings, it's been a GREAT series so far.

lsdean · Post by **lsdean** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:39 am

Danimal wrote: Personally I don't know whether he caught it or not, the ball seems to shift to me when I watch a slow mo replay, but I can't tell in slow motion. I'm not sure how everyone can claim matter of factly he caught it.

An even though I think it is a bad call, the Angles catcher should have tagged him if he didn't hear the umps call. Its not like he saw him give the out/strike signal, he was already on his way off the field and had rolled the ball back by that time.

Danimal, I agree. Originally I thought he caught it. While watching the slow motion, the ball did seem to end up higher in the glove than I expected making me think that there was a change of direction. My Tivo was working overtime trying to watch it frame by frame. I still have no idea. It was a great game otherwise.

Zlax45 · Post by **Zlax45** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:46 am

lsdean wrote:
Danimal wrote: Personally I don't know whether he caught it or not, the ball seems to shift to me when I watch a slow mo replay, but I can't tell in slow motion. I'm not sure how everyone can claim matter of factly he caught it.

An even though I think it is a bad call, the Angles catcher should have tagged him if he didn't hear the umps call. Its not like he saw him give the out/strike signal, he was already on his way off the field and had rolled the ball back by that time.

Danimal, I agree. Originally I thought he caught it. While watching the slow motion, the ball did seem to end up higher in the glove than I expected making me think that there was a change of direction. My Tivo was working overtime trying to watch it frame by frame. I still have no idea. It was a great game otherwise.

I agree with you guys. I think he caught it but I am not 100 percent sure about it. It seems to me that ball might have hit the ground. I just think the media and McCarver/Buck made too much of a big deal over it last night. I don't like those two. I have seen the replay about 20 times and I can't tell if he caught it and Eddings is within a foot of the play and likely could tell.

tsunami · Post by **tsunami** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:46 am

I don't think anyone should use this example as a reason for instant replay. Instant replay does not help this situation. Even with super slo-mo you can't definitively tell whether the catcher caught the ball or not. So, even if they had instant replay, I think it would have been inconclusive and the "call on the field stands".

I was watching Cold Pizza this morning and they dissected this play. One of the arguments was that the umpire apparently did NOT verbally call the player out (regardless of his hand signals). If he had, this would have nullified anything else and the inning is over. Since he did not, the play presumably should still be live. They also argued that they should have checked with the 3rd base umpire since he would probably have had the best view. Another point was made that everyone, including the catcher, batter, and umpire initially acted like it was a third strike but the batter only started running towards first after being motioned from the bench. So, apparently no one but the White Sox bench thought it was anything but a legitimate swinging third strike.

The other point being lost in all of this is that Escobar still had the opportunity to get out of this. Instead he let Ozuna easily swipe second and then hung a lazy 0-2 pitch right down the middle.

IMO, it's a really tough call and I wouldn't want to be on the other side of it. Maybe the catcher should have tagged him, but if he legitimately thought he caught the ball he wouldn't think to do so. As crappy a call as it was, I don't think it cost them the game since it was tied and there were chances to get out of the inning. Had a run scored (winning or otherwise) ON that play, I could see it being much worse.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:55 am

Last night I felt weird about the whole thing but after sleeping on it I don't think it's as big of a deal as everybody's making it to be. The only people who know what really happened (in other words audio and visual) are Josh Paul, the ump, and AJ. AJ is a catcher and had been out there already for 27 outs. He obviously picked up on something different since he looked over towards the ump while walking towards the dugout and suddenly changed his mind and ran to first. Josh Paul hadn't played the whole game and didn't pick up on it. A weird set of circumstances for sure, but not as controversial as I thought last night.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:02 am

ScoopBrady wrote:Last night I felt weird about the whole thing but after sleeping on it I don't think it's as big of a deal as everybody's making it to be. .

I still feel weird about it...I know if it was the other way Id..well yall know...anyway ...

Buck makes a big deal out of everything .

Lost is what a great game Beuhrle pitched.

BasketballJones · Post by **BasketballJones** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:08 pm

That is not such a bizarre play, just intense circumstances. It's most often a non contested call when the batter gives up. I don't buy AJ's story. Someone from the ChiSox dugout yelled run, AJ ran, the ump got confused. Paul has to make the tag regardless of the ball in the dirt (which is still not a dropped third strike) and someone from the Angels dugout has to yell it out as well. Sure the ump was was wrong but it was a good baseball play by the Sox. Scioscia handled it well with his postgame comments. If Escobar doesn't groove and 0-2 pitch and gets out Crede, nobody is talking about the play. It's a good play. You can't take the judgement out of the hands of the players or umps. It's one of those little things that make for good baseball controversy. If anything more folks are going to tune into this series than the NLCS.

tjung0831 · Post by **tjung0831** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:32 pm

XXXIV wrote:
ScoopBrady wrote:
Lost is what a great game Beuhrle pitched.

Mark Buehrle....the pride of St. Charles MO!!!!! As stated last night after his post game interview on fox!!!

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 8:35 pm

Wonder if the Stros can close this out at Minute Maid.

Jayhawker · Post by **Jayhawker** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:51 pm

FatPitcher wrote:Wonder if the Stros can close this out at Minute Maid.

Doubt it.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 9:52 pm

So far, so good for the Sox. 5-0 in the bottom of the 5th. Paulie has a 2-run homerun and an rbi single. Iguchi has scored a couple of times. They're showing patience at the plate and racking up the hits as a result. Garland has been impressive after 4.

Post by **ScoopBrady** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 11:56 pm

What a game by Garland! Wow, the Sox looked great tonight. They keep this up and they just might make it to the World Series.

XXXIV · Post by **XXXIV** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 2:27 am

ScoopBrady wrote:What a game by Garland! Wow, the Sox looked great tonight. They keep this up and they just might make it to the World Series.

Great win...

Fingers crossed....

bdoughty · Post by **bdoughty** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 1:44 pm

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2 ... id=2191707

Good story about the guy who caught 2 home run balls in the Hou/Atl 18 inning game. Gave both to the HOF instead of trying to make a buck off it. There is hope for humanity.

FatPitcher · Post by **FatPitcher** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 8:01 pm

2 to go.